Large age difference

[Bruno]

Bruce, in 2004, the middle age for first marriage in Russia was 25.2 year old... i think  that woman from 25 of up are more serious canditat for foreign marriage that these below...

Now, about little city, you have right... but usually, several woman on the internet are from big city... some of little city, and almost none from village...

Woman in the center of siberia are interesting but who go make a trip to so place... not a lost of western man !!!

[Bruce]

Bruno - I am a guy that just does not trust the internet.  I tried the letter writing routine.   For me it was a huge waste of time, energy and resources.  What worked best for me was to just find what I believed after talking with guys on sites like this were quality agencies in a city with alot of single women called Tver.  I wrote a general letter to any girl that attracted me on their website two months or so before I was planning to go over and that was it.  I flew over and even though lo and behold half of the girls I sent my introduction letter to were gone, I still had the other half of the girls I did write my letter to plus alot of other new girls to choose from.  The key was I knew that Tver has alot of single women, way more single women than men in my target age range.  Now,  Tver may be an aberation, but I suspect it is more like other smaller cities in Russia with enough of a margin of women in their twenties to satisfy alot of the foreigners looking for the wife of their dreams.  

As far as the statistic you quoted of 25.2 mean marriage age I do not know where you got it but I will not dispute it.  I will however suggest that it includes the larger city girls which tend to marry later, in part due to in general higher levels of education.  I am not so sure if your statistic was just first time marriages or all mariages.  If it is all marriages by definition that would tend to skew the median age upward. 

I definitely agree that most Western men do not have the fortitude to trek to Siberia (much less Kyrgistan) in pursuit of a wife.   

[Elen]

I definitely agree that most Western men do not have the fortitude to trek to Siberia (much less Kyrgistan) in pursuit of a wife.   

 Why so? Is it about a price for tickets or do some extra hours in a plane so mean for you?

And actually Siberia is more close to America:?

[Turboguy]

I have been to three different parts of siberia on various trips and had to go through Moscow all three times.   Personally I think if someone thinks his special lady is somewhere he is going to go even if he has to go by dog sled so I don't think a few hours on a plane are going to matter a lot.

I think Bruce has a good idea in concentrating on Tver.  I do think there are lots of people who go to Moscow, Kiev and St Petersburg and the gals in the other cities don't get nearly the attention.  

I also think Bruce made a good point when he said about something working for "him"   We are all different and there are a lot of different approaches to meeting Russian gals.    What might be perfect for him might not work at all for me and vice versa.   I think anyone out to meet ladies is better experimenting to see what works best for the way he is and how he needs to function. 

 

[Bruno]

Bruce, it was not easy for find again the source of information... i read so much each day and i don't store all the links...

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/359/11290_marriage.html

"Specialists from the Centre of Demography and Ecology of Man claim that, compared to 1993, the average age for men to get married has grown by 1.6 years, to 27.8 years of age (for first marriages by 1.4 years, to 25.5). For women, this indicator has increased by 1.4 years, to 25.3 years of age (for first marriages by 1.1 years, to 22.8 years of age). Experts explain that, when getting married for the first time, women prefer to choose husbands with a stable economic status. Obviously, they do not like the change of family roles that were so typical of the 1990s, when women, who find it easier to adapt to new economic realities, often became the main breadwinners."

[Bruce]

Bruno - excellent article.  Turboguy - it worked for me because I married a girl from Tver.  Elen - long distance, much less International relationships, are extremely stressful and difficult for both the girl and the guy.  In this case there is also cultural differences that come into play.  However, if the guy is really interested in the girl he will do as Turboguy suggested and travel to her even if he needs a dogsled to get there.  However, when he first starts thinking about going to the girl, and he looks at the map and finds out where Kyrgistan is I suspect he will think long and hard before going ie. backup plans are more difficult, there is a good chance he would have to go WOVO etc.  So, he will be even surer when he goes to Kyrgistan that the girl is right than he would if he knew he was going to a relatively great tourist destination like Moscow, St. Petersburg or Kiev.

[Turboguy]

Yes, I know what you mean.  I would get letters from gals and look to see where they were and use that to decide how interested I was.   I never got too excited over ones from Vladivistock or the Lake Bikal area.    As I said before, if you have found the right one you will go anywhere.   I can recall in my still dating American gals stage when one gal from 40 miles away said I was too far.   Hah.

I have fond feelings for Tver.  I would not be here if it were not for one gal origionally from there.    It never went anywhere, but I had given up on Russian gals cause I was tired of getting scammed and mostly the disapointment when you thought your life was going somewhere and then found out only your money was.

That was an interesting article Bruno.  Very.

 

[wxman]

"Why so? Is it about a price for tickets or do some extra hours in a plane so mean for you?"

In America, we live in an instant gratification society. We don't want to wait to get what we want. We want maximum return for the least amount of money. Very few American men would want to put the effort in to finding someone in another country. It takes too long. Then we weigh the cost.  It costs money to have a long distance relationship. That's where the maximum return for the least amount of money comes in. Most AM would stop right there. Next there is the stigma at least with men over 30 from their peers. You tell someone you met a woman from another country, and a lot of responses would be either "You can't find one here in the US?" or "Is she a mail order bride?" They say that to you because they want to feel superior to you or to make you feel like half a man. Typical macho response.  Now the most of ones that continue their long distance relationship after all of this, are the ones who don't care what others think. They have thicker skins and are the ones who are most self sufficient. In other words, they don't need to run with a pack of men to feel like they fit in or to be accepted.

Of course there are some men who search for foreign women because of lonliness, have low self esteem, or just want to be able to "own" a woman. I think these men make up a small percentage of those who have pursued long distance relationships, but are the ones that many people focus on. 


 

[Goombah]

Well, I'm one American can headed to Omsk in late April, or at least I'm trying. Biggest headache write now is the invitation letter and visa registry.  Both are trivial if I want to stay in a hotel overnight, and a bitch if I want to stay with a friend.  Want a personal invitation - it cost $35 and takes 4-6 weeks to process by the Russian Government.  Once you receive it, you can apply for a visa (typically another two weeks, although expedition fees could be applied).  So... I can either postpone my trip by a month and a half, or lose a day in Moscow, turning an 11 hour layover into a 35 hour one.

Only possible shortcut I can think of is to pay the $200/night to stay at the Moscow airport hotel, check in at 2pm, sleep 6-8 hours, and check out at 10pm - with my visa registered.  Don't know if that is legal though (which is the question I have pending to the visa lady at the agency I'm using).

Kevin

[Bruno]

Bruce, Turbo... yes, the full article is more interesting that only the part copy on the forum... it show the evolution of love relation in russia...

People don't marry so much, divorce rate grow, marry more late, make lower quantity of child... i don't give 10 year for they reach our own level... and i think that it will be the end for us... russian copy of our western woman

And about woman from rural place, a lot of thing change... they go to big city... and a lot of them are between 20 and 30 year old...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3955/is_n5_v47/ai_18255219

[Turboguy]

Good luck on your trip Goombah.  I have been to Omsk.   It is a nice place.   Too bad we are not closer.  I have a very large book filled with all kinds of photos from Omsk.  It is a pretty nice book and a gift from the lady I visited there a long time ago.   I am sure you would find it interesting.

You should be able to go to a hotel in Omsk and get your passport registered for a small fee.   I stayed with my friend when I was there but had been in a hotel in Moscow on the way so it was not a problem. 

The invitation sounds like a pain.  I just use an agency that takes care of the whole thing.  Might cost me a bit more but I can fill out my ap online and have a visa as quick as I need it.   (www.russia-visa.com) Mine just arrived Yesterday for my next trip to N. Novgorod which is only 12 days away.   I get to spend 7 of those 12 days in Vegas so I may be broke when I go.

Yes Bruno, I agree with you.  I am not even sure this will last 10 years.   I started traveling to Russia in 1996 and to the FSU in 94.   Things have changed at a high speed. 

My first trip to Russia everyone had little maybe 13" black and white TV's with 3 channels.   They had no real ad's then, only informercials.   My next trip they had 19" color sets.  My next trip they had big screens with vcrs and now they have 40 channels and sets as nice as ours.   

When you bought something when I first went.   Lets say you wanted a can of coke.  You walked up to the kiosk and said you wanted a coke.  They told you the price, you  paid for it and then they got you the coke.  The same system worked in the stores.   They were afraid to give you the product first for fear you would run off with it.   Now they give you the product and you pay them.

The economic reasons to leave will soon vanish.  We will be left with those who think all us crazy us and europeans might be better husbands.   Heck they go here or antidate and they might not even want to believe that.

 

[Goombah]

Thanks TurboGuy - their prices are a little high, but $10 or $20, but not unreasonable.  I dropped them a note to see if they could help.

Kevin

[Elen]

The economic reasons to leave will soon vanish.

As for economic factor then don't worry:?:? There are no "Lihts" at that horizon, because econmic is not estimated by what you can buy in kiosk. The changes wich you don't like in russians are caused by hammered in our heads  the idea that money is everything in this life during the last 15 years. (but not love, family and kids)

So soon you willl enjoy with fruits of Westenisation in FSU

(as for 3 programms on TV then there was a nouther face of coin - we read a tons of books. Why do you think we such edicated?:D:D)

 

[Turboguy]

Elen, I would like to see the economy doing well there even if it does affect the ability of all us guys to find good women easily.    Russia has a lot of very well educated, intelligent, hard working people who are making a fraction of what they should be making.   I think that is sad. 

I think a lot of Russian people there think the changes in the economy are not much.   When you live in an envoronment every day, you don't see the changes.  Until the last year I have been coming to Russia about every two years and I see big changes every time.   The past year I have been making a trip almost ever few months.  (11 days till I come back to Russia next)   I don't see the changes at that rate.  It is always the same.   Russia is changing.

I too fear Russia will get westernized.  That will be sad.   I don't think it will be soon enough to affect me, but I see it coming.

I agree with you about TV.   We were even discussing that at work today.   TV has it's good side but I think it has a very bad side too.   I am just not sure which is the stronger force.  

 

 

[Elen]

I think a lot of Russian people there think the changes in the economy are not much.   When you live in an envoronment every day, you don't see the changes.  Until the last year I have been coming to Russia about every two years and I see big changes every time.   The past year I have been making a trip almost ever few months.  (11 days till I come back to Russia next)   I don't see the changes at that rate.  It is always the same.   Russia is changing.

 

You see only the fasade. Yes we can buy coke in each kisosk now, yes we have DVD players and all other "spangles" (though not all of us, far not all)   but we can't give free of pay edication for our kids, can't pay for our health treatment,we have to work at two or more jobs to feed our familiers instead of paynig more attention to our children.

 So don't be surprised with the results Soon you will be able to find here only girls who didn't see their mom home at all cos they had to work 24 hours in a day, girls who read nothing and only saw stupid TV shows a-la the Western's ones and who can think only about money.

Let's enjoy now with residuary results of totalitarian socialism till you have time :D

[Kvinna]

I too fear Russia will get westernized.  That will be sad.   I don't think it will be soon enough to affect me, but I see it coming.

I dare aks you: why do you fear so much Russia will get westernized?

[Bruno]

[line]
I dare aks you: why do you fear so much Russia will get westernized?
[line]


Because we love russia... the country, not only the women... i like the character of people, they are not so much individualist, friendship are more strong, nature is beautiful, ...

Yes, my ex-wife have love our big shop, our confort of life... but she was shocked by our western spirit...

by example, i have know a hearth attack in Belgium and i have stay on the ground around 30 minutes before somebody make something... it was the driver of a bus who have call help because i have blocked the way of bus... and customer have insult me... i cannot imagine so in Russia...

We speak about criminality in Russia but the level of Moscow don't reach these of New York... In russia, woman can always walk the evening in street without too much fear to be attack, children can go to school without be controled in case they have pistol, children park are not the meeting point of drugs dealer...

We fear about the bad side of the western country, not about the good side... if you can reach a better confort of life, it is no a problem for us... but be aware that the western freedom and confort have not only good side... 

 

[Elen]

Well I can't find that post but I do remeber another version of answer to that question. There was something about crazy feminist who suffers about climax in her 35, has dilapidated body and her own teenagers and hates all males .... and so far :? Such fine description of females (like me for example:D)

Ps

I forgot to say the main point-  Westenezed 20 years old girls don't look at 40-50-60-70-.... boys:D

[Bruce]

Elen, a large percentage of Western girls these days have no need for men at all.  They have their own careers, own friends, live their life according to the feminist doctrine, get weirder and weirder every day and wake up one day around age 35  and wonder why no man wants them, why they never got married, why they did not have a family - their puppies and kitties no longer satisfy them,  Now they want a baby.  So, they go to a Dr. and get Joe Homo's sperm artificially inseminated into them.  Then they have their little baby boy.........................born into the world of the modern metropolitan society.  Is this really good for the future of the West................Not to me. 

One other point, all of us absolutely over all love Russia and yes, the benefits of your modern post-Communist society (remember the USA definition of Communist and Russian definition of what Communism really means just does not get conveyed).  Most of usl worry about the changes your society is going through and hope it will eventually end up with the best blend of the old Soviet values and the fruits of a better economic system for the average citizen of your country.

Now, getting back to the point, if Russian societies women continues to drift towards modern feminazi doctrine then there will definitely be virtually no women at the margins for Westerners to desire.

[Elen]

Now, getting back to the point, if Russian societies women continues to drift towards modern feminazi doctrine then there will definitely be virtually no women at the margins for Westerners to desire.

 Poor Western males! What an awful future waits for you:D:D

[Elen]

remember the USA definition of Communist and Russian definition of what Communism really means just does not get conveyed

 I do remeber that Americans think they know Communism better than we who lived under it

[Bruce]

Language is a huge problems for people.  Foreign languages just are extremely difficult for Americans.  That is one great deficiency in our Educational system.

[Turboguy]

When I said that about the gals becoming westernized I meant pretty much what everyone took it as.   On one hand I feel bad that although the economy has progressed a lot while I have been coming to Russia, it is still terrible and the people deserve to have better pay and a better economy and I hope that comes. 

Yes, when it does come the 20 year old gals are not going to find the 40-70 year old guys as desirable.   The shopping will be tougher.  It might end.  You don't find Paris and Rome to be full of agencies helping 50 year old American men to meet 20 year old French and Italian ladies.   Sure, anywhere there are people looking for a change in their life.   There will be some ladies who want that but not the numbers now where there seem to be two major motivations.   A better life financially and a good husband who will treat them like they are important.

I think when it does change the South American and Philippine ladies will be the ones the American men are left with.   There are lots of 20 year olds there that are happy with an older guy and there will always be older guys who want a young wife. 

I am glad to know Americans find learning a foreign language hard.  I thought it was just me.   You have made me feel better Bruce.  It is nice to know you are not alone.

[Elen]

the economy has progressed a lot while I have been coming to Russia

 Ah! I love American optimistic view on life in Russia (regardless of all statistic reports)  very much:D:D:D

[Turboguy]

Ok, I give up!  I am old enough to know you can never win an an argument or lets say a discussion with a woman.  

OK, life in Russia is terrible and has not improved a lick.   The poor Russian people are going to spend eternity in poverty and the situation is hopeless.   The changes I have seen must be a mirage. 

I am just joking with you Elen.  I really believe the economy there has a long way to go to get where it needs to be.   I have seen changes, but not what it needs.  

The bad part is that I think some of the former members of the USSR are going to leave Russia in the Dust economically.   I think it is happening now in some places like the Czech republic.   I think you will see Ukraine moving ahead faster than people thought.   Right now Ukraine is sort of Russia's poorer brother.   I think before long that sitaution will be reversed.   I am saying this because I see other places such as Ukraine moving forward on freedom and their economy and Russia doing the reverse, working it's way back to less freedom and could well turn back into a dictatorship.  I hope this situation changes.   I see some good signs lately such as the resistance to taking away some of the benefits for the pensioneers.