Religion in Ukraine...

[Gator]

To be married in an Orthodox Church you would have to have been baptised in a Church whose Holy Rites are considered valid by the Church.

I will never qualify.  This is not fair.  No baptism can "compare" with that of a Southern Baptist - full body immersion while the preacher is holding you down and going through his spiel. 

I asked my ex- if we could get around any requirements by slipping the orthodox priest a $100, and she said something about inconsistency.

I know of two groups who were allowed to immigrate to USA because they could not practice their religion in Ukraine.

A new way to get your woman into America - have her convert to one of these prohibited faiths.

[jb]

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church is in utter turmoil at the moment.  After a brief moment of glory during WWII because of their throwing in their lot with the Germans, (many Ukrainians thought that Nazi Germany were their best shot at getting rid of the Russians).  After the war and Germany's defeat, the UOC went quietly back under Moscow control.

Since Ukrainian independence, there has been an effort to resurrect the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, unfortunately their elder Patriarchs keep dieing on them before they can get things going.  Each time the Bishops are even more divided on which direction they want the Church to go.

Since this last election, the latest Patriarch, (Filaret (Mykhailo Denysenko), Filaret remains very active in both church and state politics and seems determined to meld a nationalist orientation into the Church, which most Eastern Church leaders are not too happy about.  In fact, he is said to have a desire that the UOC become the "National Church of Ukraine", to the exclusion of all others.   

Don't look for this Church to have a serious impact on things since they are basically starting all over and are now only about 10 years old.  A real upstart from the Traditionalist point of view.

[BillyB]

The faithful stand or kneel for the entire Mass,  I think the thought is that one should suffer a little for being a sinner.

Suffering is right. There's a large FSU community in the cities below Seattle and they have rented American churches or opened up new churches to perform service. I once went to a  Ukrainian service while married to my ex and although the service is similar to American churches perform with no hint of it being Orthodox, it lasted 3 hours with almost an hour on my knees on the concrete floor covered with a thin carpet. Two hours were sitting but I felt bad for the elderly that had to go through the pain of kneeling.

[jb]

I will never qualify.  This is not fair.  No baptism can "compare" with that of a Southern Baptist - full body immersion while the preacher is holding you down and going through his spiel.

I asked my ex- if we could get around any requirements by slipping the orthodox priest a $100, and she said something about inconsistency.

One of the tests used by the Orthodox Churches to determine validity of the Holy Rites is to be able to trace their origins back to the Apostles.  To the best of my knowledge, only the Eastern Orthodox branches of the original Catholic Church are able to do this.  Since most of the American protestants are home grown with roots of less than 300 years they would not qualify.  Two possible exceptions are the Lutheran and possible the Anglican (Episcopalian) which are both of European origins and were Catholic in their beginnings.  Certainly the Baptist and Southern Baptist would not be able to join the club since it is strictly an American born institution.  Same as the Mormons. 

I'd suggest you find a friendly neighborhood Greek Orthodox priest and have a talk with him.  My guess is that if you've already tied the knot in a civil service at the courthouse the priest will not mind a "show" wedding in his Church.  It might also help cement the relationship as a lasting marriage in the bride's mind.

[Leslie]

The topic under discussion is religon in Ukraine not religon in Russia.

Western Ukraine is Catholic and ethnically very similar to Poland. 

Catholics tend to remain Catholics though many are not fervently religous.  For example they practice birth control. Tolerate abortion etc.

Eastern Ukraine is more more ethnically Russian and the Orthodox faith is much more common.  Many people will claim to be Orthodox but don't attend church regularly.  For example they will go at Easter but not every Sunday.  To light a candle on the anniversary of a loved one's death - oh and drink a couple of glasses to their memory !

The Protestant faiths are much more recent.  The Baptists and Methodists are the largest groups though the other sects are there.  These congregations are much more evangelical.  One of my wife's school friend is a Baptist.  The community is religous and proscriptive.  Joining a MOB is seen as quite close to wearing fishnet stockings and lurking in railway stations.  If you want to meet a woman like this go on a "good will" tour with your church.  Here there is little laxity of faith allied to a strong community.

Many women are atheist but will not admit to it until you know them better.  Of course this is natural in a country that has been communist for most of the last centuary.  In Marxist terms "Religon is the opium of the masses"  i.e a drug...

My wife's parents were both card carrying members of the communist party.  Her father was a senior official.  My wife's views on religon are perhaps best described as radical atheist.  She regards religon as a mental illness...

[Kuna]

Kuna now you are making me jealous
She sounds like a winner, but sometimes someone you have less confidence during the letter writing phase can really shines "face to face"  so keep your mind open and
I wish you good luck my friend!

corp,

No need to be jealous... I haven't met her yet!

As with all of the girls I'm communicating with at the moment, there are definite "attractions" but also there are one or two things that remain a mystery, or at worst "points of caution".

I'd rather not raise the negativve issues in here (where they exist) in case any of the girls ever read this stuff.   

Kuna

[IAmZon]

(Just read this thread, been out for several days)

My money says Kuna lands his trophy right out of the blocks. 

And a weird thing I just noticed about MIR's posts ... from the beginning I have never read them ... somehow my eyes just floated over them.  Even here, I only read Kuna's response, and that was enough for me.

[Kuna]

My money says Kuna lands his trophy right out of the blocks. 

Not looking for a trophy... just a "partner in crime"...     But I know what you mean!

If nothing else, it's been an interesting experience and I can't help but think it'll continue to grow.

DAmn Gator though... I can't get the picture of a "Banya" out of my mind.  Hmmm.. It was called a Banya yeah?   

Kuna

[Gator]

BANYA, not BANYAN which (the latter may grow naturally in Oz).

I have done a few banyas in Russia and Ukraine, and all differred.  I have yet to have one with birch tree branches, an impossibility in winter of course.

From what I have read, a genuine banya is technically a steam sauna, hotter than a steam bath but not 100% humidity.  Best to rent a private banya for an hour. 



A good description of a public banya (gender segregated)

http://www.privilegedlife.org/dispatches/banya.html

More:

http://www.cossackconnection.com/banya.htm


More than you need to know:


http://www.cyberbohemia.com/Pages/russianbaniahistory.htm#Anchor#2





This is probably not off topic as some would consider a banya as a form of religion.

[corp]

corp,

Just out of curiosity, do you mind sharing with us what Church or denomination you subscribe to? 

The reason I ask is that in my experience, men who make a point of seeking only a "Christian" woman are usually members of some relatively strong Protestant faith.   If you are a member of this kind of religion, such as the Mormon LDS Church, or one of the more fundamentalist sects, then I would caution you on the subject of trying to convert a strong Orthodox believer.   Very often this is an act of mixing oil and water. 

Sorry for being out of the thread for so long JB.
I was Raised Catholic and was quiet content with that. I decided to read the Bible for a number of reasons and it really gave me a dramatic shift. It's not that I felt there were errors in Catholic teaching, the more I studied into that, the more I realized most of the teaching are not ... well taught.
 I dont really have membership in any denomination, but I am comfortable with many.
I am still learning what Russian Orthodox is all about, I have read some questions and Answers here
http://www.oca.org/

and found nothing which would prevent me from attending or maybe joining one (so far).In fact I was impressed by the aggressive nature that the Priest answered the questions, if there is one thing I can't stand is when someone is trying to be "all things to all people".

Since you raised a valid point about compatibility, I would think ... I would have more of a problem with a typical luke warm Orthodox than I would with one who takes it very sincerely.