Poll of IMB Profession

[Admin]

Recently Gallup ran a poll of the most-respected, and least-respected professions. I could not help but notice that "International Marriage Broker" was NOT among the listed professions.

So I thought it might be helpful for us to conduct our own poll to determine where to place the 'IMB' in the overall Gallup poll.

Here is the list of most and least respected professions:

# 1. Pharmacists
# 2. Clergy
# 3. College teachers
# 4. Physicians
# 5. Dentists
# 6. Police
# 7. Engineers
# 8. Funeral directors
# 9. Bankers
# 10. Journalists

The bottom 5 are:

# 19. Lawyers
# 20. Labor union leaders
# 21. Advertising personnel
# 22. Congressman
# 23. Insurance salesman
# 24. Car salesman

Sorry I don't have the full list for comparison - but you should be able to vote based on those we see.

When complete in 10 days, I will submit it to Gallup to see if they care to modify their results (yeah right !!)

Cheers!

- Dan

[Kuna]

Firstly I can't believe that there are so many people that trust journalists enough to rank them tenth!!!

In my mind many IMB's are dirty rotten scoundrels and therefore I would rank them just a little more highly than journalists...  Therefore I'm slipping them in at 10!   

[Admin]

Well, it seems we are a LOT more critical of the IMB profession than I imagined. More than half the respondents rank the IMB profession as the LEAST ethical and LEAST respected of professions.

- Dan

[Turboguy]

Yea, even lower than lawyers and that is darn low.  (sorry Solomon)

[solomon]

I feel so loved by the world. People dont like lawyers but as soon as something goes wrong I'm their daddy.

Yea, even lower than lawyers and that is darn low.  (sorry Solomon)

[Louie]

Its because of your profession that we need to hire you, and end up doing alot or most of the work for you, then we get our wallet raped for doing so!!

[I/O]

IMB Rating....??????   My rating.....So low, they could tiptoe under a duck with their umbrellas hoisted high above their heads....!!!!!!

[Turboguy]

Solomon,

Most of us consider lawyers pretty low on the scale, we make tons jokes about them.   Then we think to ourself that if we had our life to do over we should have gone into the practice of law.

One of my lawyers had to put some work for me on a back burner because he had a trial against Lowes for a pipe falling on a woman's foot.  He got the woman 6 million for her pain and suffering but I have to wonder how much pain and suffering he had for his cut of two milliion or more.   

I think in reality there are good lawyers who care about people and ones who don't care much but get a ton of money for their clients.  I am not sure either is bad but I do miss the old days when if somene tripped over a crack on your sidewalk they thought first about any injury they had and not about how much they were going to sue you for. 

[solomon]

Turbo,

The case you just described is fairly unusual. On an hourly level, surgeons for example make 5 to 100 times more than lawyers. Have a disk replaced in your neck for example and the surgeon's fee alone for an hours worth of work will be around 20 grand. No one seems to blink an eye at this.

A lawyer in my office earned a verdict of 3.9 mil last year on an auto accident case. She spent a year preparing for the case. Her fee unreasonable? Maybe. She also could have received a verdict of zero or 100k. I think she spent 250k preparing the case for trial (experts, etc.). Then she would have recovered nothing. If you have a disk replaced in your neck, regardless of the outcome (e.g. medical malpractice), the surgeon will almost invariably get paid.

One of my mentors is co-counsel on a med malpractice case that if we went to trial would likely result in a 8 figure verdict. The only thing he cares about is forcing the hospital at fault to change its procedures. I will get there someday soon.

I am not sure if the litigious society we have is driven by the plaintiffs or the action of the potential defendants. In the old days at a local hospital if something went wrong, the nuns would rush to the scene to be with the family and ask them what they could do to help. The doctors or whomever were at fault apologized for their actions. A lawsuit rarely ensued and things were pretty good for all. Today, supposedly at the advice of their insurance companies, no one says anything. They batten down the hatches and hope the truth doesnt come out. Justice?

Even though good money can be made as a lawyer, it is a very stressful profession. Clients are demanding. Try getting your doctor to call you back the same afternoon or possibly ever. When a problem comes up, clients want me to drop everything and work on their problem. Regardless of the outcome of a case, clients are almost invariably dissatisfied. Lawyers on the opposite side that are a pain in the ass to say the least. Insurance companies that dont want to compensate your client for their injuries. Judges that are unsympathetic to your case. The list goes on. I think going to law school is valuable but the practice can be brutal.

Solomon,

Most of us consider lawyers pretty low on the scale, we make tons jokes about them.   Then we think to ourself that if we had our life to do over we should have gone into the practice of law.

One of my lawyers had to put some work for me on a back burner because he had a trial against Lowes for a pipe falling on a woman's foot.  He got the woman 6 million for her pain and suffering but I have to wonder how much pain and suffering he had for his cut of two milliion or more.   

I think in reality there are good lawyers who care about people and ones who don't care much but get a ton of money for their clients.  I am not sure either is bad but I do miss the old days when if somene tripped over a crack on your sidewalk they thought first about any injury they had and not about how much they were going to sue you for. 

[viking]

Solomon

I had a problem with a woman asking me for money. She was in a 'car accident'. Rather than giving her money, I said I would call my lawyer and he could take care of everything. So I called this lawyer in SPB and asked for his help. I offered to pay him for his services. I gave him her cell and here is part of his reply back to me. Not all attorneys are bad guys.

"It is difficult for me to tell you whether or not you are cheated but all
scam elements are here. She refused me to review the case, the amount
of damage is not quite high so it will be possible to get such sum
from you, sad story about the accident and fairy tales about the
confiscation of the apartment plus as you mention her "Internet
reputation". I was surprised that she does not want me to help her.
When you really have the problem of such kind nobody reject legal help
espesially if it is free of charge. But if somebody has in mind to
cheat other person than lawyer is the pain in the neck.


I will not charge you for my work. I case you will be in St. Pete you
may take me out for a beer or if I happen to be in NY you may do the
same as well. Please let me know if you have any further questions."
Best regards,
Vladimir

[SANDRO43]

I am not sure if the litigious society we have is driven by the plaintiffs or the action of the potential defendants.

Maybe GREED from the former (fuelled by certain lawyers and media reports of outrageous settlements), and RISK MANAGEMENT from the latter (again fuelled by certain lawyers) ?

[El Rock]

Lawyers
Real Estate  people
Meth dealers

All about equal in  integrity.

I use to say "coke dealers " now it's "meth "

I have lost over a million dollars  because of Bob Blakey , a lawyer  ,on  a  realstate deal .

[Louie]

You should not compare your profession with a surgeon's, lawyers are not even close to their league, a surgeon 8 years in school then another 4 in residency, a surgeon has your life in his hands every time he operates, a lawyer has his bank account to worry about. every time I had to hire an attorney i got screwed, the last time, was so bad that i tried to sue the lawyer for incompetence, i had all kinds of evidence, I want to 3 different attorneys, not one would touch the case, talk about a good ol' boys club. No i don't think you should compare an attorney to a surgeon, not even close

[El Rock]

I filed a complaint  with the state  bar association  and it went back and forth between  me and my  lawyer , in the end  , nothing .


Is it illegal to kill lawyers ??
 

[Turboguy]

Solomon,  I don't have any dislike of lawyers unless they are suing me for something.   Without lawyers we would have to go back to telling jokes about Polish people, Blacks and farmers daughters and those are all worn out.  Actually I consider my lawyer and my accountant both among my friends but I have seen my lawyer recommend courses of actions that were designed more to generate fees than to help me.

I have been sued two times.   One for my business and the only reason for the suit was the guy who pretended to be hurt was working under the table so workers comp wouldn't cover it.   (He was hurt but the injury came in a hockey game the night after he fell of my machine. 

The other time was driving and it was because I was there.   I was making a left turn, 4 older guys were in the cross walk.  I stopped for them.  One was turned around talking to his friend, turned back around and saw my headlights and got scared, tripped, fell and broke his hip.  I was stopped, not in the crosswalk and did nothing wrong but that one cost my insurance company $ 70,000.

I do think our legal system is disfunctional.  You mentioned the income of doctors.  I have heard of Doctors giving up thier practice over the costs of malpractice insurance.   On my first EC social trip one of my friends I made on the trip was an Orthapedic surgeon who had just completed law school and was dropping medicine to practice law becuase the money was better. 

[El Rock]

Bush helped pass a recent law stating at $250K  was the limit for medical law suits , I believe .

[Son of Clyde]

Solomon, I made a huge mistake hiring an immigration attorney to prepare the K-1 visa. He did little or no more than I could have done and charged $1,400.00 for his work. I did all the legwork, secured all the documents and got all the translations but he (or his secretary) typed the forms. I only hired him because the first lawyer was only charging $500.00 and would work me in whenever he had 5  or 10 minutes. After 2 months I was no further along than when I first hired him. He would attempt to call Ukraine and if the connection was bad he would never call back. He was going to send my fiance to Poland for her interview and everyone knows interviews are held in Kiev now. To make matters worse he was Ukrainian himself, born in Kiev.

I hired a second lawyer to complete the job quickly. I hate filling out forms but I ended up doing the AOS myself with no problems. I must be in the wrong profession as a health care worker if I could charge $1,400.00 for a simple K-1 visa that takes all of 2 hours to prepare the forms.

Lawyers are necessary for legal advice and when there are unforseen problems. Since there are many facets of law practices I am only speaking of immigration law. Contract law, criminal law and workers' compensation are some areas that are important.

[catzenmouse]

I think one of the big reasons that lawyers are thought so "highly" of is that now our country is fully based on laws and not on justice. The laws have been so convoluted that there is very little or no justice anymore. Sorry Soloman I have more respect for drug dealers than I do for lawyers. At least they don't hide the fact that they are out to screw you over and make money off of you. Can't say the same for 99% of the lawyers I've had dealings with.

[Turboguy]

Solomon,  Just because we look at some lawyers as being more concerned with thier own welfare than their clients.  We all know you are a good guy and care about the people you have as clients.

[Bruce]

My previous opinion was to kill them all.  Unfortunately, sometimes one needs a lawyer in our society.  Probably, thats because the lawyers made it that way, but thats another long discussion topic.  If it was up to me, I'd take 95% of the lawyers and send them on a one way trip to Iraq.  I figure the best 5 % mean well  , and we all know Solomon is a good guy and William III has impressed me with his giving nature this past year.  So, there is hope for them ie. lawyers as a group. 

[KenC]

There are good lawyers and there are bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad mechanics.  The problem is not with the lawyers, but with the legal system in this country.  Even if you have a good lawyer, you may end up with less than favorable results because of the system. 

Unfortunately, I have had a lot of experience through my businesses and personally with attorneys over the years.  Most of the lawyers I have had dealings with were of high caliber simply because I refused to deal with the others.  The problem with people's perception of lawyers (being low) is that do not understand how to pick or how to work with a lawyer.  Most people walk into an attorney's office and dump their story on his desk and hope he can acquire the desired results.  They do not stay involved with their own case.  They give the attorney what I call the "doctor treatment."  They think that the attorneys knowledge and experience is so far superior to there own, that they need to just wait for the right magic pill to be prescribed and everything will be just hunky dory.  It just don't work that way.

The client has to stay involved all through out the procedure.  No one knows the merits of your case better than you.  It is your responsibility to keep the attorney informed of what you want to do in a layman's kind of way and it is responsibility for the lawyer to act almost as an interpreter to put your wishes into legal terminology and to administer your wants and desires through the legal system (such as it is.)  He is your mouthpiece, but he should be mouthing your translated words and ideas.  It is also very important that you stay involved with all strategies regarding your case.  Again, a lawyer is not some magical mystery man where you dump your problem and wait for him to solve it on his own.

A classic example of what I am speaking of is my first divorce.  My ex wife hired an attorney highly reccomended by the pack of man haters she was running with.  This attorney was very unimpressive through out the early stages of the divorce and mishandled many different facets of the case.  He acted very inexperienced.  Years later, my attorney ran into him at a party.  My ex had switched lawyers in mid trial and he was asked why?  My ex had hired the wrong lawyer.  She wanted to hire her attorney's father and got stuck with junior!  She only found out the mistake when she told junior that he looked real good for a man in his 60's! (Maybe she was trying out her new date smack)

Even her new and improved attorney had little hope for success against my lawyer because I stayed involved with the case step by step.  At trial (yes, we went to trial on a divorce) her attorney kept stumbling over the facts of the case where mine was well informed and sharp on the facts.  Results are that your attorney's performance is dependent upon how well you make him work for you.  Always remember that he works for you and insist that he represents whatever it is you want, not what he wants.
KenC

[I/O]

Wow......!!  Our lawyer friend has had a real working over here.  I am sure he is taking legal advice on the matter right now...!! (Joking of course)

There is some very sound advice in KenC's remarks.  When employing anyone, professional or otherwise, you must moniter the performance day by day.  Professional friends of mine remark that they feel very similar to a PC at times, that is, "Trash in Trash Out".  They can only work with that which they are given to work with.

However, it has been a relatively recent addition down here that a "Law Firm" may openly advertise their services and I do tend to think this has seen a rather dramatic downturn in the average quality of service available and certainly a significant shift in the ethos of many "Law Firms".

My Lawyer, (If I may use that expression) who BTW makes very little money from me has become a close personal friend over the years, however if or when it comes to the professional side of our relationship, he understands very clearly that he is working for me and as such, demands every possible shed of information before plans are formulated, because he understands that I demand his best perfomance.  For this, he has my respect.

If you feed peanuts, you will get monkeys, if you feed meat, you usually get men. (Not designed to be sexist in this politically correct day and age)

I/O Who is probably the most politically incorrect being on the entire plannet.

[KenC]

I/O,
Lawyers here get a bad rap IMHO.  They have clients come to them with weak cases, little information and a tricky legal system.  They have an up hill battle from the beginning.  When the case is not resolved to the clients liking, of course it is all the attorney's fault.  Some of the "bad" attorneys just happened to have "bad" clients.
KenC

[I/O]

Lawyers here get a bad rap IMHO.  They have clients come to them with weak cases, little information and a tricky legal system.  They have an up hill battle from the beginning.

I have no doubt...!!  Unfortunately one factor we, down here, also lead the world in now is "Per Capita" litigiousness.  Shocked.?  Unfortunately it is true.  We over took you guys a few years ago.  Probably the one contention I might have with your comment as it stands, is that I do believe that lawyers are morally bound to advise the client frankly from the outset regarding likely success or otherwise.  I feel that some lawyers fail to do this at times.

Nevertheless, I suspect we have bashed our dear lawyer friends here quite enough for the present and if I could suggest something positive and relevant to the thread for the new year, perhaps some of them might like to devote some of their skills to cleaning up the IMB profession.  Hmmm profession is something of a paradox when used in the same sentence with IMB.  Just MHO.

[Admin]

I have no doubt...!!  Unfortunately one factor we, down here, also lead the world in now is "Per Capita" litigiousness.  Shocked.?  Unfortunately it is true.  We over took you guys a few years ago.  Probably the one contention I might have with your comment as it stands, is that I do believe that lawyers are morally bound to advise the client frankly from the outset regarding likely success or otherwise.  I feel that some lawyers fail to do this at times.

Nevertheless, I suspect we have bashed our dear lawyer friends here quite enough for the present and if I could suggest something positive and relevant to the thread for the new year, perhaps some of them might like to devote some of their skills to cleaning up the IMB profession.  Hmmm profession is something of a paradox when used in the same sentence with IMB.  Just MHO.

One of our 'projects' is aimed at positively influencing the agencies. Check out our latest site at: www.CertifiedMarriageAgencies.org - and, in particular, the Agency Code of Ethics which is published there.

It is a VERY new initiative - but gaining a strong following and foundation.

- Dan