Jealousy and the UW

[Kuna]

I'm doing a bit of self assessment at the moment...

I've frequently read in these pages the jealousy that some RW/UW experience over their partners.

Having someone that's a little jealous at times can be endearing but consistent jealousy becomes smothering for me.

Is there a general "trend" of jealousy amongst UW or am I just reading the wrong posts at the wrong time?

I have a few female friends that are a part of my life and I know many women as acquaintances.  Especially in my local area, when I go to the shops, local restaurants or pub it's rare to not bump into someone I know, often a girl. 

Even in other cities I travel to, I "know" people in the areas I frequent.  Hotel staff, waitresses in local cafe's, girls that work in the same buildings that I do, a couple of my favourite shops etc...

Both of my LTR's in the past experienced jealousy from time to time so I'm wondering if this could be a potential red flag for any future relationship with a UW.

Is the "jealousy thing" another stereotype or is it possibly "cultural"?

Kuna

[groovlstk]

Based on the few serious relationships I've had with RW, it's my opinion that they can be much more jealous--or maybe they're simply much less inhibited in showing jealousy--than their Western counterparts. If you're in a serious relationship you're considered "owned," and the ghosts of girlfriends past will provoke plenty of grief from her.

Yesterday I made the mistake of showing my fiancee some photos I had from a trip to Florence in 1999, where I met a woman from Siberia. Never mind that I never saw this woman again and that the relationship occurred when my fiancee was 19 years old, in her words it "kills" her to imagine me with another woman, even if she understands intellectually that it's part of my past and thus silly for her to get worked up over it. I spent a few hours in the chateau bow-wow until she calmed down and explained things to me...

[Kuna]

*GULP*

I tried to post that one word *GULP* but got a message saying it didn't meet the two word minimum... so I'll expand...

ummm... *GULP*

[KenC]

Kuna,
My wife is very territorial when it comes to me.  And I think it is a cultural difference.  Let me explain how I see it.  AW (can't speak about your ladies in Oz) think it to be uncool to be jealous of their man.  In fact it is just the opposite that they try to project.  They want to project that they are independent enough not to even care if their man is around or not.  This "I am woman, hear me roar" attitude prevents them from showing too much jealousy.

Lena has explained to me that good men are very difficult to come by in Russia.  Good, faithful, men that can provide well for their families next to impossible to find.  She came here believing that all men cheat. Mind you not "some" or "most" but "all."  Now if a woman truly believes this (and Lena did) and she packs her life up and moves to a foreign country and is depending upon only one man as her total life line, it is easy to understand some paranoid jealousy ensuing.

It has taken years for Lena to understand that I am not a man that would cheat on her.  She still has her antenna up just in case some woman wants to take a run at me, but she has cooled her jets as far as trusting me.  The idea that I would cheat on the woman I love and that is as beautiful and loving as she is absolutely ludicrous in my mind.  (She has zero fears now that Brad Pitt has Angelina locked up.)

About five years ago, Lena and I went to dinner with another couple and were enjoying some cocktails and some jazz music in a local club.  We were all having a great time and getting a little happy buzz on.  My buddy is married to a gorgeous AW that is 15 years his junior.  We even made comments that night that our wives were by far the hottest chicks in the club.  Everything was happy, happy, joy, joy and then suddenly a look (I really never want to see again) of angst falls on Lena's face.  Oh my God!  What could be wrong? Lena leans over and tells me that "if that %#*&# (woman) looks at you again, I am going to %$#@#  her ass"  Huh?  BTW, the "other" woman was 20 years older than Lena and rather plain looking, but was paying a little too much attention to our table (and of course I was the target of her stares)

It takes a while, but it smooths out in time.  Mostly it is a pain while they de-Russianize their thought process in this area, but it is a little flattering sometimes too.
KenC

[2tallbill]

In my limited experience (four trips) Ruskias are more jealous than their American counterparts.

just my two kopeks

Bill

[jb]

It's not really jealosy, there are just some things I own that I don't loan out or want to misplace, my wife being at the top of that list.  My wife feels the same way about her husband.

[IAmZon]

imam  *GULP*  too

Not good. Not good at all:( 

Kuna, remember when I said there is something either very wrong, or very right here?  well...

[Kevin L]

Kuna

My experience with RW is that some are jeaous and some are not.

I will say that If they are very interested in you they can be very protective
of you, and that is around American or Russian Women.

Always be careful before deciding to bring one back to America.

Kevin L

[Jumper]

Good, faithful, men that can provide well for their families next to impossible to find.  She came here believing that all men cheat. Mind you not "some" or "most" but "all."

exactly.

successful men in the FSU can have their cake and eat it too , marriage/children  and young mistress on the side., with often little to no ramifications or complidcations ,
if he isnt too "in her face" about it.

its just the reality.
(it doesnt mean all Russian men practice it,
 but then again why wouldnt they? and women have come to understand or expect it in that culture, and perhaps are a bitmore possesive because of it)


anyway jealousy is individualistic,
My wife isnt the overly jealouse type at all.

for example out of respect i would allows wear blinders on around any woman i was seriuos about, its rude to have your eyes wander everywhere , while with someone?
but my wife would EXPECT me to check out hot girls,, its any
 *real mans* nature in her mind?
While she appreciates that its not my style,, she still  finds it not in normal behaviour of men in general..lol
and of course calendes in my office of attractive ladies seems completely normal to her, in her mind why wouldnt i have them?
but she would diffentantly expect me to ALSO have pictures of her as well of course!
anyway this same situation , my coworkers wives would be quite pissed off..

If some girl hit on me ,its a different story, and she would make it  crytal clear that i was not availble.(but wouldnt be mad at me over it)


I think  in general you may find RW to be a bit more *territorial*,
 than your average AW.
I'm not sure thats exactly the same as jealousy,  as jb pointed out?

[ScottinCrimea]

     My UW expressed quite a bit of jealously early in our relationship.  I didn't attribute it to her culture, but rather to the fact that her first husband cheated on her.  It took constant reassurances and the fact that over time she has seen that I have absolutely no interest in any other woman (What more could I possibly want?).
     I think a difference that men are seeing here is that RW's are more willing to speak out about their jealousy.  AW more often aren't direct but instead become passive aggressive, just silently making your life miserable and refusing to explain why.

[catzenmouse]

I think a difference that men are seeing here is that RW's are more willing to speak out about their jealousy.  AW more often aren't direct but instead become passive aggressive, just silently making your life miserable and refusing to explain why.

I'd say that is a very on target post.

[Louie]

I spent a few hours in the chateau bow-wow until she calmed down and explained things to me...

lmao Groov that just cracked me up !!!

[viking]

Groov

Get a chair. Call it the 'time out place'. When you have a 'mis-understanding", go sit on it and just stare at her until she laughs about the whole thing. If you want to take it to another level, put a small fridge next to it and make believe you are camping. Works all the time. 

[Kuna]

Thanks guys!

I really appreciate the responses, especially as it starts to delve into your personal relationships.

In both of my LTR's at home the thing that I've probably disliked the most was jealousy.  It's the jealousy that is not logical (and not resolved and builds and builds) that's been a negative both times.  In the first relationship we were young and I think the jealousy was just a sign of immaturity.

In the second LTR it was driven by her fear of abandonment.  Still...  it was definitely a destructive element in our relationship.

I guess we'll see when we meet but it would be a grave concern of mine if there was illogical jealousy and the anxiety "she" felt wasn't resolved so that it builds into something worse than it should be.

Again,  I guess I'll wait and see what the girls are like in person, but it's been very interesting to read your thoughts and comments.

Kuna

[jb]

Kuna,

Look at this from a RWs perspective.  When a Russian woman gets married, she belongs to her husband, and the reverse is also true.  He belongs to her.  Therefore she feels within her rights to protect her turf.  Women are better able to spot another woman's flirting, we men stupidly chalk it up to meeting a "friendly" woman, while a wife will know it for what it is.  This has happened to me, for some reason AW feel it is a challenge to flirt with a man if he has a foreign born wife.  Sort of the old, "What has she got that I don't" syndrome.  My wife doesn't fly into a rage, she simply grasps my arm and steers me away from what may be troubled waters.

BTW, everything KenC said is absolutely true, the successful professional Russian man will often have a young mistress on the side.  these are called "Sponsored" girls.  They have a sugar daddy and life is good for awhile,,, until he sees a younger, prettier, etc., and she gets replaced.  That's about the time the previously "sponsored" girl joins a marriage agency and looks for a foreign husband who doesn't know about her past.   

Always something to be aware of.  Hotties above 30, never married, no children, listed on several agency web sites, simple education, vague professions, falls in love very quickly, all are traits of the sponsored girl and are typical of the breed.  They are actually little more than street walker, maybe more so because they are less honest about who and what they are.

[TwoBitBandit]

Always something to be aware of.  Hotties above 30, never married, no children, listed on several agency web sites, simple education, vague professions, falls in love very quickly, all are traits of the sponsored girl and are typical of the breed.  They are actually little more than street walker, maybe more so because they are less honest about who and what they are.

Ha, I met one that obviously fell into this category on my last trip.  She was quite attractive and 31 years old.  After I figured out that she wasn't my type and she had asked me several pointed personal questions, I decided to return the favor.  It turns out that she had been been a "side dish" for a married man for six years and he had just recently cut her loose.

She insisted he was a great man, yet didn't have much of an answer when I asked "If he was such a great man, why was he cheating on his wife with you?"  Then she went into a rant about how there were no good Russian men left in her age range, only drunks and lazy idiots.

My date with her was educational, if nothing else...

[vwrw]

All of women dream about the best men to be their husband. Of course, each of women has own opinion what is the best man but I have never met a woman who does not dream about her future husband to be successful professionally and good provider for their family.
I have noticed most women who constantly lost desired men because of more interesting women crossed their path prefer to complain there are not good and faithful men in Russia than to say truth. There are many good and FAITHFUL men in Russia but only a few of them are successful professionally and are good providers. if some women have not given the time of day to the good and FAITHFUL men but who had not the financial ability to buy expensive things (no matter how compatible they were in other ways) it does not mean the good and FAITHFUL men do not exist in Russia. 
After the women lost some men, as a result they become very jealousy even when they live with faithful husbands because they know from own experience there are a lot of more interesting women than they are and who their men may meet a day.
Jealousy is a general "trend" among the women who want a lot from their men but have only a little to give in return.
And jealousy is individualistic, not "cultural"

[IAmZon]

I agree VWRW (happy holidays BTW)

Furthermore, jealous behavior should not be construed as some expression of love or devotion. It is not. Rather, it is a sign of insecurity. 

Completely understandable that this human feature may be a little more pronounced in a RW comming to America ... and their husband is there only "lifeline."  So, it should be the burden of the man to show care and discipline ... to provide a stable environment for the RW to feel safe.

But after that ... after, all things being equal, I would hope that jealousy is not a characteristic that is more emphasized in the Russian culture.

[jb]

So, it should be the burden of the man to show care and discipline ...

I sincerely hope you really meant *self-discipline*, or,,, are you into whips and leather?   

[IAmZon]

Of course! SELF discipline is my full thought.

I need to finish my coffee before I write.

[KenC]

I agree VWRW (happy holidays BTW)

Furthermore, jealous behavior should not be construed as some expression of love or devotion. It is not. Rather, it is a sign of insecurity. 

Completely understandable that this human feature may be a little more pronounced in a RW comming to America ... and their husband is there only "lifeline."  So, it should be the burden of the man to show care and discipline ... to provide a stable environment for the RW to feel safe.

But after that ... after, all things being equal, I would hope that jealousy is not a characteristic that is more emphasized in the Russian culture.

In all fairness, VWRW is not in a position to be able to know how she herself will react if and when she arrives in America and if and when she marries.  Her opinion on how RW behave in America is not one with much validity.

Regardless of how secure a RW is in her native environment, she will still find herself in a situation where almost everything is dependent upon her man.  Even the most independent RW will find themselves in this new position of being dependent.  Fortunately, if the marriage is good and strong, the security issues dissapate over time.  Of course the man should provide a safe and secure environment.
KenC

[Louie]

Kuna,

Always something to be aware of.  Hotties above 30, never married, no children, listed on several agency web sites, simple education, vague professions, falls in love very quickly, all are traits of the sponsored girl and are typical of the breed.  They are actually little more than street walker, maybe more so because they are less honest about who and what they are.

    Man this is getting harder and harder, how do you weed these ones out!!!

[catzenmouse]

    Man this is getting harder and harder, how do you weed these ones out!!!

Louie,

 It all comes down to using your uncommon sense (if most of the world has common sense I don't want any of that!  ) Use your head, keep your eyes open, read, ask, all that stuff. Just because someone was "kept" for a time does not mean that they would not be just what you were looking for. We all have a past. If that doesn't work for you then try this:

[ConnerVT]

(if most of the world has common sense I don't want any of that!  )

What part of the world is that??!!?   ???
I don't think I've ever been there.   

[Turboguy]

In all fairness, VWRW is not in a position to be able to know how she herself will react if and when she arrives in America and if and when she marries.  Her opinion on how RW behave in America is not one with much validity.

KenC

If you read her post with a little more objectivity she said nothing about RW coming to America.  She talked about RW in general which she is in a postion to know about.   Rivardco was the one who discussed women coming to America and quoted her.

Otherwise, I agree with you and think you made some good points.  I think we all have to remember that we are talking about people not cookies made with a cutter.  I think we see a lot of tendencies but everyone will put their own twist on it.

I have a feeling if both sides of the stories were told a lot of the failures we hear about, a lot of the things those terrible RW pull on their poor unsuspecting guy were really the fault of both to one degree or another.   I think you brought up a very good point.  These women are very dependent on us, particularly at first.  Our actions are going to have a lot to do with the outcome.