Jealousy and the UW

[catzenmouse]

What part of the world is that??!!?   ???
I don't think I've ever been there.   

Silly Connor...

 You know, have a look around your local WalMart, Mcdonalds, DollarStore, and for the real winners you can always check out the Darwin Awards. They show some of the finest examples of Gen-U-Ine Common Sense I've ever seen...

[KenC]

If you read her post with a little more objectivity she said nothing about RW coming to America.  She talked about RW in general which she is in a postion to know about.   Rivardco was the one who discussed women coming to America and quoted her.

Turbo,
There is nothing wrong with my "objectivity," but I suggest you check your's.  That is why my reply was to Rivardco and not VWRW, as he was applying what your honey said to RW in America.
KenC

[vwrw]

In all fairness, VWRW is not in a position to be able to know how she herself will react if and when she arrives in America and if and when she marries. 

I well know how I will react. So as I am sure that my being in America will not change my attitudes about my man’s faithfulness. I will smile because it is pleasantly for me when other women too find my man to be attractive. And I will be proud of me because the attractive man loves me, not other women. Also I will tell my man (even if he himself noticed) that other woman looks at him because it will be pleasantly for him to feel attractive.
KenC, you see, I do not consider that my man is a silly little boy who I need to protect from experienced women. I consider that my man is clever and wise and he will not exchange the best woman (to his mind) for worse one

[KenC]

I well know how I will react. So as I am sure that my being in America will not change my attitudes about my man’s faithfulness. I will smile because it is pleasantly for me when other women too find my man to be attractive. And I will be proud of me because the attractive man loves me, not other women. Also I will tell my man (even if he himself noticed) that other woman looks at him because it will be pleasantly for him to feel attractive.
KenC, you see, I do not consider that my man is a silly little boy who I need to protect from experienced women. I consider that my man is clever and wise and he will not exchange the best woman (to his mind) for worse one

You cannot possibly KNOW until you experience it.  Sorry, I aint buying it.
KenC

[viking]

    Man this is getting harder and harder, how do you weed these ones out!!!

 And lets add those criteria to some with very short lived marriages as well.

[vwrw]

 KenC, you said
She came here believing that all men cheat….It has taken years for Lena to understand that I am not a man that would cheat on her.

So, It has taken years before your wife begins to react differently after she came in America. Then I wonder why other women could react differently at once as only they arrive in America ??? 

[KenC]

KenC, you said
She came here believing that all men cheat….It has taken years for Lena to understand that I am not a man that would cheat on her.

So, It has taken years before your wife begins to react differently after she came in America. Then I wonder why other women could react differently at once as only they arrive in America ??? 

VWRW,
Your "nit picking" of my posts is becoming a bit boring, but I will placate you with an answer once again.

The concept of "all men cheat" is common among the RW that I have met here in America.  If they truly believe it or it just happens to be a cute(?) Russian saying, I don't know.  If you believe it or not is irrelevant.

As a marriage matures over time, all parties become more secure in it.  Confidence in each other grows.  This is human nature.  I don't know your marital background so I don't know what is your experience level in this area.

There are a plethora of reasons for other women to act differently, if they do indeed act differently. (Just because you infer they do act differently doesn't make it true)  Some of the reasons that come to mind are maybe they simply don't love their man and could care less about him.  Or maybe they are insecure in relationship and are afraid to make waves.  Or maybe they accept that all men cheat.

But that is enough about why a woman wouldn't act a little jealous and insecure once arriving in America as it is your premise, not mine.  I think the majority of the RW arrive here with a sense of fear of the unknown.  I don't think it would be normal if they didn't have some anxieties.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Interesting thought, I thought her posts were in response to you nit picking her threads.  Oh well, it is fun and hopefully we are doing better at staying on topics. 

I don't know if I really agree with you though.  I think in some cases you are right.  There are however people in this world who just are very insecure and do not change as they get comfortable with their partner.

Even though it was not a RW, I can think back to my relationship with the 21 year old when I was 45, the one who clawed my face and had me with blood pouring all over me during a flight to England because the airline showed a James Bond movie, and who broke my bathroom door in half because someone suggested I may have gone to a Whitney Houston Concert in Syracuse, the one who went nuts because Forbes magazine did an article on Mrs Fields.  I could have been around that gal forever and she would not have adjusted or changed.   First hand, if we make a call on the basis that she is adjusting and will change and we make the wrong call our life can be hell.

[KenC]

Turbo,
You missed the point entirely.  There are crazy women every where and that will not change.  But that is irrelevant to this.  We were discussing the idea that a RW would tend to feel insecure or have some anxieties upon arrival here.

Your sweetie claims to know she won't have any anxieties or insecurities upon arriving here.  I think it is typical behavior and that there is no way of her really knowing until that time comes.  She can assume she knows but unless she has moved to another country for a man, she just hasn't yet experienced it yet.  BTW, has VWRW even been married before?  (I thought I knew everything when I was 27 too.  I was wrong)

Something that might be relevant would be Luda's behavior here when she arrived.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Luda was crazy but never violent.

My only point in that Ken was that we could in theory have a RW who we liked a lot who showed extreme jealousy and we could think it is a phase that she is going through and she does not know how honest and faithful we AM are and it will be fine.  She just needs time and in reality it is her nature. 

In reality she could be a jealous witch who would make our life hell.  Actually those types are often on good behavior in the early phases and once they are comfortable your arss is grass.

[KenC]

Luda was crazy but never violent.

In regard to jealousy while here in America.? Who mentioned violence?

My only point in that Ken was that we could in theory have a RW who we liked a lot who showed extreme jealousy and we could think it is a phase that she is going through and she does not know how honest and faithful we AM are and it will be fine.  She just needs time and in reality it is her nature

  My point of view is that most RW if not all will display certain "insecurities" when they first arrive.  I don't see how it is possible for them not to have some anxieties at first.

In reality she could be a jealous witch who would make our life hell.  Actually those types are often on good behavior in the early phases and once they are comfortable your arss is grass.

Yeah, I see your point here,  is it real? or is it Memorex?  I guess the temporary insecurities is the best we can hope for. 
I don't know why this has been such a difficult concept for some to put their minds around. We have talked about RW insisting on new beds, bedding and the removal of all signs of any other woman that was in your previous life.  (You listening Groov?)  Or the removal of all photos from previous relationships.  Lena never did any of that. 

It just takes a while for the newly arrived RW to get grounded.
KenC

[groovlstk]

We have talked about RW insisting on new beds, bedding and the removal of all signs of any other woman that was in your previous life.  (You listening Groov?)  Or the removal of all photos from previous relationships.  Lena never did any of that. 

It just takes a while for the newly arrived RW to get grounded.
KenC

The weekend before I left for Moscow, I razed my apartment, going through every desk, bureau, box, etc. I'm glad I did, as I found a business card belonging to V, the woman I met in Kiev two summers ago, along with a Ukrainian translator's mobile #.

Polina and I are going through the adjustment thing, now. I can't understand how any RW can say she doesn't feel any anxiety or worry prior to moving to the US. My fiancee and I talked for hours on a daily basis, much of what we discussed was what her life here would be like. She was super-prepared for life here, yet she was still nervous as hell. When I arrived in Moscow to bring her home, she would go through mini-depressions several times each day, always because she wasn't sure she could hack life in America, didn't know how intensely she'd miss her family, and was worried about having to speak and think in English 24/7. I'm happy to report that most of her fears were dispelled within a day of her arrival, although the English 24/7 thing is very tiring for her. Anyway, we're certainly not out of the woods yet, when I return to work in a week she'll be on her own for most of the day, so I'm sure further adjustments and compromises must be made.

[Turboguy]

KenC,  Sorry I misunderstood your question about Luda.   I guess my mind was still on the one from long ago that was both crazy and violent. 

Luda, had the easiest adjustment you could want.  She did not miss her family or friends for a minute and had no problems adapting to life in America or away from her family

As far as VWRW, I can't disagree with you.  If she has not experienced it she could only guess and if she has experienced it, then she would know exactly that what she said is correct.

No, VWRW has never been married.

[Kuna]

We have talked about RW insisting on new beds, bedding and the removal of all signs of any other woman that was in your previous life.  KenC

No offence to anyone's wife who insisted on this but it is the type of illogical behaviour that I was thinking about in the beginning.

If this were to happen to me I would give her the option but of course there are consequences to all of our actions.

A good bed costs $4,000+. I've got a good bed now.  If a future partner insisted on replacing a perfectly good bed when the money could be spent on a trip home to see family she would have the ability to make that decision.  Trip home or new bed?  What's more important?

I can accept replacing bed linen (which isn't cheap if you are use to good linen) because it wears out and is replaced frequently anyway...  but a bed?  Surely not!

If that was the case we'd better not spend any time with my friends and family (they remember my ex'es), go to nice restaurants (I've taken girls to them), catch planes (sometimes I bump into ex'es who are air hostesses) or catch a cab (There's a French cabbie in town who I seem to get frequently... and has seen me with a few different "dates").  

Of course I would protect and defend her feelings in all of these situations,  but illogical jealousy is a BIG RED FLAG for me...

Kuna

[jb]

Kuna,

It sounds to me like you need to burn your house down and move to a new city.

[Kuna]

Kuna,

It sounds to me like you need to burn your house down and move to a new city.

Geeez jb,

Don't say that!   

Actually...  IF I meet someone and marry I fully expect to move "house".  I have a nice city apartment now... not really the place to raise a family.  Geeez.... maybe a new bed wouldn't seem so bad afterall!   

Kuna



Hmmm... in fact... in the "getting to know you on email phase" I've had conversations with all favourites we've talked about lifestyle preferences.  Apartments?  Houses? Close to the city?  Acreage?

My family lives 30 or 40 minutes from the city centre and the "best" response to those questions was "I think it is best to live near your family.  Your mother is getting older every year.  I can help her, and she can help me become settled in a strange city"...

[jb]

T/G, & vwrw,

My experience mirrors KenC's when it comes to relocating a RW to the USA,,, longterm.  Granted, T/G has some experience relocating a crazy Russian woman,,, short term, but I'd think you'd listen to the voice of reasoned experience rather than adopt this pig-headed attitude you've both displayed here.  Neither of you know very much about the other after being together only a couple of weeks.  To say you already know everything about each other is both lame and stupid.  To equate a 2 weeks together relationship to an 8 years marriage which has already seen many of the rocks and shoals is unbelievable. 

With each new riposte, you lose credibility.

[ConnerVT]

Kuna, don't worry.  In my house, the bed was probably the only thing that WASN'T replaced! 

[Turboguy]

T/G, & vwrw,

To equate a 2 weeks together relationship to an 8 years marriage which has already seen many of the rocks and shoals is unbelievable. 

First off I never said that 2 weeks together put is in the same status of knowing someone as 8 years of marriage.   I did make the statement that she knows me better then my ex did after 22 years of being together and I will stand by that statement totally.  It is absolutely true.   

jb, you know me better than my ex did and you don't know me at all, neither did she.  She had no interest in knowing me.   She had a nice house, the grass mowed, the garbage taken out, money to spend and physical satisfaction that was all she cared about.   She thought she had a great marriage.  There was no reason to figure out who she was married to or care anything about him or what his thoughts, ideas and needs were.  Why lift a finger if you don't have to?

VWRW does know me from more than out few weeks together.   We have had a lot of very outstanding communication and she allotted 4 hours a day on RWD until she had read every post I have made here.

What it really boils down to is you can learn more about someone in a short time if you really care about them and want to know them than a very long time if you don't give a crapp.

[ScottinCrimea]

It has been interesting reading these posts because in our case I was the one coming to live in a new country, leaving family and friends to be with the one I loved.  I was the one who was very dependent on my wife because at first my knowledge of the language and how things worked here was so very limited.  I could barely go to the store myself without a note from my wife telling them what I wanted to buy  I think I have a pretty good understanding of what these RW's go through when they move to the US.  Even though I had known my wife for nearly two years, one can't help but feel insecure in such a situation, and jealousy is only one symptom.  It didn't help that men would approach her for her phone number even when I was standing there.  I would check her cell phone for strange numbers, worry if I didn't know her whereabouts or changed her plans unexpectedly.  I consider myself a pretty secure man and have never considered myself to be the jealous type, but I think the combination of a beautiful woman, an unknown country and culture, the sense of isolation from the lack of close family and friends and my sudden switch to being more the dependent one all played a role. Fortunately for me she was very patient with my snooping and questions and never once gave me a single reason to doubt her and certainly did not use my insecurity to control me by doing things to keep me guessing.  Through a combination of her not giving any conflicting signals, her patience, our better understanding of each other and the loss of the sense of isolation through my improved English and making new friends, this short period of insecurity and jealousy resolved and I trust her completely in any situation.  I know she loves only me and as much as the other guys may look, I know that she only has eyes for me and at the end of the night, I'm the man she is going home with.
     So guys, understand that the jealously is only a symptom, not the disease.  Be patient and at no time give her cause to suspect anything.  Always be straight up with her because if she catches you in a little lie she will wonder what big lies she is missing whether or not there are any.  Don't talk about past girlfriends, even if she asks, and don't ask about hers, no matter how tempting.  She will think you are making comparisons.  Tell her it is the past and that the present and future are what matters.  Give her constant reasurance bout her desirability to you and your total devotion to her.   Yeah, I know, it all sounds like a lot of work, but hey, if you do it rightit's only temporary and trust me, if you make her feel safe secure and loved, she will repay you in ways you can only dream of.
     

[SANDRO43]

Scott !
Shows how much one can learn when looking at things from a totally different perspective.

[ScottinCrimea]

Yeah, this old dog is still able to learn a new trick or two.

[KenC]

Yeah, this old dog is still able to learn a new trick or two.

Scott,
I second Sandro's statements.
(You might want to correct something though.  (I think you meant your Russian improved not your English.)

[SANDRO43]

(I think you meant your Russian improved not your English.)

Ken, now he's probably improved his Russian enough to start thinking of English as his other language, hence this lapse .

[ScottinCrimea]

Nice to see that someone read my longwinded letter intently enough to notice my typo.  I knew I was getting the language down when I caught myself talking to myself in Russian.