Jealousy and the UW

[KenC]

Nice to see that someone read my longwinded letter intently enough to notice my typo.  I knew I was getting the language down when I caught myself talking to myself in Russian.

Seriously, Scott, it was a very good and important post and I didn't want you to miss your opportunity to make the correction.  You explained what I have been trying to explain for pages and pages.
KenC

[Kuna]

Scott,

Thanks for putting the time into writing your post.  You frequently provide wisdom that's worth more than money could buy.

Ths line that really clicked with me was:

     So guys, understand that the jealously is only a symptom, not the disease. 

Cheers!

Kuna

[vwrw]

An anxiety in front of changes or a sense of fear of the unknown and an illogical jealousy are different things.
From ScottinCrimea
  I consider myself a pretty secure man and have never considered myself to be the jealous type, but I think the combination of a beautiful woman, an unknown country and culture, the sense of isolation from the lack of close family and friends and my sudden switch to being more the dependent one all played a role. Fortunately for me she was very patient with my snooping and questions and never once gave me a single reason to doubt her and certainly did not use my insecurity to control me by doing things to keep me guessing.  Through a combination of her not giving any conflicting signals, her patience, our better understanding of each other and the loss of the sense of isolation through my improved English and making new friends, this short period of insecurity and jealousy resolved and I trust her completely in any situation.  I know she loves only me and as much as the other guys may look, I know that she only has eyes for me and at the end of the night, I'm the man she is going home with.


ScottinCrimea, of course, you are a pretty secure man, not the jealous type. Your example shows very well as only one begins to trust his partner the jealousy disappears, not important what country the one lives either his or hers. ScottinCrimea, what if you came to her country already with faith she loves only you and as much as the other guys may look, you know that she only has eyes for you. Maybe in this case you would feel only insecurity because of your lack of the knowledge and there was not place for the jealousy in your mind? Like now there is not place for the jealousy in your mind although your knowledge of the language and how things work here still is limited.

How quickly we begin to trust other people depends on our experience. If you were cheated many times you would be very jealousy for long time in your country as well as hers. If you were not cheated… on the contrary the beautiful women you lived with still tell you they cannot find so interesting man as you are…maybe in this case when you saw the men approach your woman for her phone number you would not feel jealousy because there is unlikely so interesting man as you are among the men.

I need to be cheated by many men to destroy my faith I am able to keep wanted men’s attention. Exchanging my country for America is not able to destroy my faith in my ability and makes me jealousy.

Kuna, there are the women who are able to show their love and care without considering their men are silly little boys who they need to protect. There are the women who will not hate your ex – women and hence everything what connected with them because they understand each of your ex – women brought something into you and if there were not the women in your past you could be a different person than you are now. And she might not fall in love with the different person. The women will not be jealousy when other women look at you because they sincerely believe you are the best (not only tell you that you are the best)… and that is why to their mind the fact other women like you is something of natural, not a reason for hysterics.    
Of course, it is pity some of you have never met such RW or UW in America.

[vwrw]

From ScottinCrimea
So guys, understand that the jealously is only a symptom, not the disease.

Truth. But symptoms do not appear from nowhere. And if you wrongly define the disease when you explore the symptoms your patient can die.     

[vwrw]

From KenC:
Scott, it was a very good and important post and I didn't want you to miss your opportunity to make the correction.  You explained what I have been trying to explain for pages and pages.

KenC, how quickly you forgot that you tried to explain- RW are very jealousy and it is a cultural difference. While some of other people (me included) tried to explain you jealousy is individualistic, not "cultural".
ScottinCrimea’s post is evidence that jealousy is individualistic, not "cultural". 
   

[KenC]

From KenC:
Scott, it was a very good and important post and I didn't want you to miss your opportunity to make the correction.  You explained what I have been trying to explain for pages and pages.

KenC, how quickly you forgot that you tried to explain- RW are very jealousy and it is a cultural difference. While some of other people (me included) tried to explain you jealousy is individualistic, not "cultural".
ScottinCrimea’s post is evidence that jealousy is individualistic, not "cultural". 
   

VWRW,
I didn't forget nor do I change my opinion that RW tend to be more jealous than AW.  The situation of being here or as Scott's post points out, in a foreign land, does heighten the jealousy or insecurities in addition to these tendencies..  You see in any generalization there is bound to be exceptions.  Maybe it is you.  But there is no way for you to really know until you are in the position of being here.  When you say things like:
 "Exchanging my country for America is not able to destroy my faith in my ability and makes me jealousy."  It is a false statement because you have not yet experienced exchanging your country for America, in fact you have not even experienced marriage.  You just do not know exactly how these events will affect you when you do.  You may think it is how you will behave at best.  I am sure Scott never guessed that he would react the way her did before he experienced everything first hand.

There just are too many subtle English words that change the whole meanings of sentences like:most, all, many, may and know.  When you say "will not" it means that there is zero possibility and that cannot be a proven as a truthful statement until you experience it.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Actually KenC you are making assumpions because you don't know what VWRW has and has not experienced in her life. 

I do agree with you that on average RW are a little more jealous than AW and a little more vocal with their jealousy.  So far I have seen no signs of jealousy from VWRW which makes me happy.

[KenC]

Actually KenC you are making assumpions because you don't know what VWRW has and has not experienced in her life. 

I do agree with you that on average RW are a little more jealous than AW and a little more vocal with their jealousy.  So far I have seen no signs of jealousy from VWRW which makes me happy.

That is true, Turbo, that I assumed she has not experienced moving to a foreign country for a man.  So correct me, if she has and I won't go there again.
KenC

[Turboguy]

I did not really say that.  I just made a point that you don't know a lot about what she has and has not experienced.   

[catzenmouse]

Seems to me there is a lot of nitpicking semantics going on here.

 No one actually "knows" how they will react to something until it happens. *BUT* it is pretty common for us to be sure how we will react to something and to say so with some conviction.

 I know that I have said before that I will "never" go to XXX store again but when I am stuck in a situation where I need an item and XXX store is the only place open I eat my words and go there. Do I like it, hell no! Do I wish I had another choice, hell yes! Will I probably ('prolly for you jb  ) say it again, yes I am sure I will.

 So VWRW feels that she is going to be fine here and not have a problem. She may be exactly right in this feeling. She may not be. It is too early to say for certain either way. I hope that both sides can agree on that but if not then I think we'll have more bickering on nit points.

 There is a massive amount of uncertainty in this whole process from day 1 until day 100,000,000+ as it involves two people AND their families and cultures. As they say, the only thing in life that are certain are death and taxes. For us maybe we can add USCIS fees to that. Other than that we do not know what tomorrow or ten minutes from now will bring.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[TexasBoar]

Would it be possible to have just ONE active thread going that is NOT overrun by the ongoing flamewar between TG/vwrw and KenC/jb???

At this point, surely everything that actually needed said---by any stretch of the imagination or definition of "needed"---has BEEN said.  Repeatedly. 

Equally obviously, no one's minds are going to be changed, so any further attempts from either camp are futile, and serve only to restir an already volatile pot.

Trust me . . . us newbies get it.   Mmmmmkay?

On the board I run, and others serving the same community that it does, the standing joke is that everyone's default position in ANY debate comes down to just two postulates:

1. You ain't the boss of me.
2. You're not doing that right.

Seems to me it's not exclusive to Nordic heathens after all. 

~Boar

[viking]

Thanks Boar. I have said this before, all parties involved have my respect. All of them bring to the table certain aspects which I read and learn from. But from this thread I have my diploma, and enough is truly enough.

[jb]

Boar,

I beg to call to your attention that several of the more experienced posters presented a fairly uniform picture of what appearant RW jealousy amounts to. The descending comments and arguments all came from the same sector.  Need I say more?

[Jumper]

off topic i suppose,

She was super-prepared for life here, yet she was still nervous as hell. When I arrived in Moscow to bring her home, she would go through mini-depressions several times each day, always because she wasn't sure she could hack life in America, didn't know how intensely she'd miss her family...

same experiece groov, and this nervousnes coming from one of the most confident ,self assured women i have every met.
 (also a big part of why she isn't the jeolouse type)

i'm sure that nervousness will fade quickly with Polina also..


Kuna-
Like Conner-
i dint have to change me bed,, or toss any photos or anything..
it wasnt suggested or imagined even..!!

but the rest of the house had a big makeover..
home despot and lowes being her fav stores initially..

Really,  I could'a wished for the far more simple task of just tossing a bed and sheets .. . to apease some temporary jealousy...

sometimes blessings are disguised,.,
think about it..   

[Kuna]

AJ and Conner,

A home makeover would be a wonderful and exciting thing to do together... I mean "her" being creative and me following with bags full of soft furnishings I suppose.   

Actually, I've been on the verge or redecorating at home but have always thought it would be better to do it with a partner so if/when that happens, I'll be happy.

Funnily enough, two out of the four I'm still writing to actually claim to HATE shopping, but for different reasons.

One says she doesn't like crowds or the browsing that's required to find what she likes.  In saying that I've noticed that she's spent 3 days in the past week traveling between her home town and Kyiv looking for a jacket she wants.  That sounds like a pretty committed shopper to me!

The other girl that doesn't like to shop said to me she doesn't like it because whenever she shops she spends all her money, and she doesn't like to spend all her money.     Hmmm... not one to budget I suppose.  hahaha

The home makerover thing doesn't stress me... it's just the risk of illogical jealousy but there's been some excellent perspectives presented here.

Kuna

[Zhena]

I am not jelaousy in that sense what this word has-cos I trust to my partner,otherwise why would I be with him-but if some other woman will show too much attention to him,my reaction can take a place. But thats not a jelaous-I would say,thats a self-respection.

[Zhena]

Possible,in this case I ll just leave