Big City Women vs. Village Girls

[TexasBoar]

From a thread gone south . . .

I/O is correct in his response to JB, he never denigrated big city girls since he never provided any specific criticisms, but several of his verbose posts implied that men are better off looking in far-off venues like Siberia. Perhaps this is the topic for a no-holds barred thread.

Or here, as noted there. 

As a newbie to all this, with an interest in visiting places like SPB in particular, and of course thinking it would be nice to date while there . . . I'd be interested in hearing some specifics on the differences one might expect to find, rather than watching yet another flamewar on "leagues" and such.

Having lived in smaller cities my whole life, I don't know as I've ever dated a "Big City Woman" here.  Unless Cuidad de Mexico counts, I suppose.  On the other hand . . . most of what I enjoy in life is a bit "big city" in nature.  I suppose my "starter questions" might be:

1. How much does the dating protocol itself differ?
2. In what ways do the women's expectations regarding men differ?
3. In what ways might the women's adjustments to life here differ?
4. Does place of residence automatically make a woman one or the other?
5. Does degree of seriousness tend to differ between the two?

Thanks.  No low blows, protect yourselves at all times, and come out swinging. 

~Boar

[KenC]

OK TB,
I'll take a stab at this. 

1. How much does the dating protocol itself differ?
Don't expect the big city girls to be steeping into a line up for your picking, it just aint gonna happen.  You will be dating women on equal terms, not desperate to leave as their lifestyle may well exceed your's in many different ways including financial.  They just won't be very impressed with your offering hot and cold running water if you know what I mean.

2. In what ways do the women's expectations regarding men differ?
In every way possible they will be much more discriminating.  They feel socially superior to people from other cities.  In Russia, Moscow is the center of the universe in many ways.  To convince them to move to anyplace less (and every other place is less in their minds) will take a hell of a lot of honey.

3. In what ways might the women's adjustments to life here differ?
Almost the opposite of what you read here.  They will be making the adjustment down to your villiage like city.

4. Does place of residence automatically make a woman one or the other?
Residence? No. Moscow is like a giant magnet that draws people from all over the fsu.  I suppose one could make a a connection to length of time living in Moscow to how snobby and attitude with a native born Muscovite being the top level of social superiority.

5. Does degree of seriousness tend to differ between the two?
Seriousness? No.  Big difference in level of desperation though.

I speak only of Moscow as it is what I am familiar with first hand.  You also have to consider that Russians are very aware of a particular pecking order involving such things as cities and even former republics.  At least that is the view from Moscow the perceived top of the heap.
KenC

[jb]

Ken,

My wife was born, raised, and educated in Moscow.  She holds a master's degree from Moscow State University's Physics Faculty.  Her father was a much celebrated scientist, teacher, and high citizen of the USSR.  He was rewarded by the CCCP with land, houses, and a large Moscow flat, and ,,, some wealth.  We have benefited greatly from this.  However, if you met my wife you would think she is the least snobby person in the world.  The people who go crazy about living in Moscow are the ones who come late in life to make their fortunes.  They are not real Muscovites.

Moscow is a city of 13 million souls, less than half were born there.

[KenC]

Ken,

My wife was born, raised, and educated in Moscow.  She holds a master's degree from Moscow State University's Physics Faculty.  Her father was a much celebrated scientist, teacher, and high citizen of the USSR.  He was rewarded by the CCCP with land, houses, and a large Moscow flat, and ,,, some wealth.  We have benefited greatly from this.  However, if you met my wife you would think she is the least snobby person in the world.  The people who go crazy about living in Moscow are the ones who come late in life to make their fortunes.  They are not real Muscovites.

Moscow is a city of 13 million souls, less than half were born there.

jb,
There are people who think they are better than others for no apparent reason and then there are people who are better than most people.  (Whether they they flaunt it or not)  I have no doubt that Etna falls into the later category.  I have always found that the people that are truly (fill in the blank with rich, educated, etc) do not have the need to prove it to anyone.  Their quiet confidence speaks volumes.
KenC

[jb]

Thanks, Ken,

I talk to her every day,,, the only thing she talks about is counting the days until she get back to her "real" home with me.  I think the woman has grown fond of me somehow.  Silly Moscovichka that she is.

[Turboguy]

I can not disagree with the fact that Moscow women are often very beautiful, educated and sophisticated.   

Perhaps some of the country bumpkins in the hinderlands of Siberia or the smaller cities of Ukraine may have less opportunity to participate in high society but the class shown by those gals is still light years ahead of AW.

I think that the argument that has been put forth in the past has merit.  It suggests basically that if you live in LA or NYC you are better off looking for a gal from Russopolis.  If you are from a smaller kinda place like Beaver Falls or Billings Mt or Peoria, you might be better off looking in the smaller cities (Which are still pretty darn big) in the FSU.  I think it is a valid point.

I also believe we all have our priorities of the type of gal we are looking for and the qualities that are important to us.  For myself, I don't see Moscow as someplace that would have been fertile hunting grounds.   It does not mean I think badly of Moscow women.  It just means I believe I would have a harder time there finding a woman who has the qualities that are important to me and avoiding the qualities I want to avoid. 

[KenC]

jb,
I have no doubt that she sees something very special in you to leave the life she had in Moscow behind.  With that being said, and your other comment above consider this for a moment.  It isn't that Etna acts superior or even thinks of herself as superior to others, it is just that you perceive her to be superior because you know of all her wonderful traits. Nothing wrong with that as I happen to think Lena is rather special too.  But maybe you attribute too much credit to Moscow for Etna's wonderfulness.  I sincerely do get the point that it takes one hell of a man to woo a woman of Etna's caliber away from the life she had, but it is her that has the qualities, not all women from Moscow.  That being said, there are many "high quality, high integrity" women in other fsu cities, not just Moscow.  Think about it.
KenC

[I/O]

I have always found that the people that are truly (fill in the blank with rich, educated, etc) do not have the need to prove it to anyone.  Their quiet confidence speaks volumes.

Nothing to add on that point...!!!

I am too lazy to address each question point by point, but in general terms, I suggest that prior to deciding which is the more fertile hunting ground, one should realistically appraise there own lifestyle and situation.  Only then can one really consider where the most suitable partner may be found.

There is of course huge differences in priorities held by people from a different geographic or economic background.  However, I would find it difficult to analyse these without suggesting one is better than the other.

JB's point about his wife reminds me of my Grandfathers remark many years ago which went something like this.  "Usually, not always, but usually the person born with the silver spoon in their mouth will handle it better than the one who happens upon the silver spoon suddenly at some later time".

I/O who is no mans respecter regardless of his wealth, social position or connections.  People are people, there is good and bad amoungst all.

[jb]

I/O,

Upon my wife's mom passing, I find myself in a somewhat confusing position, I'm now a multi-millionaire, or at least married to one, I've never had this problem before.  I've always been just a simple engineer who earned around 100K a year, and we were happy with that.  My wife and I never had that discussion before we married. We were just two people who got involved, just two people who had things in common, and two people in love and wanted to marry.

How would you recommend I go about dealing with a spoiled Moscovichka?

[I/O]

How would you recommend I go about dealing with a spoiled Moscovichka?

JB, it is a mute question because in your own words, you don't consider her spoiled.  Priviliged maybe but there is a big difference between priviliged and spoiled.  I would have thought most guys seeking a foriegn wife or simply finding themselves in a position to marry such a person would have been long aware IF she was a spoiled type of person.  If they were aware of this and they went on to marry her, then if she was a "Spoiled Pain in The Neck", I would say to them, "Such It Up and Live With It, You Knew Before, It Was Your Choice".

I/O.

[jinx13]

 Ok, ON TOPIC, I read this quote from Bruce in another thread,

 

Bill, St. Pete is a great place, do not get me wrong.  It is a target rich environment.  However, big cities everywhere tend to be a little bit faster then smaller ones so though there are plenty of fish moving, you have to be able to catch them when they decide to stop  .

 That pretty much sums up the way I feel about it. I lived in San Francisco for awhile in my younger days, it was lots of fun, but like Bruce says "the fish are moving faster" in the bigger cities. Meeting women there was more difficult than it had ever been for me before, and I was a STRAIGHT guy living in a city known for a large gay population!    It's a high pace lifestyle, and women seem to be a little more jaded in the big cities, maybe they don't have quite the same innocence as the smaller town girls. Anyway, I ended up dating girls from the suburbs  

[jb]

I/O,

The point I make to you is that not all Moscow women are spoiled rotten.  There are lots of decent, educated, attractive, and wonderful women in Moscow.  If you feel up to it, try to court and woo such a woman.  If you are successful, you will have won a prize beyond price.  If you are mediocre and need to look for a woman in dire straits, out in the hinterland, then you know your place better than I.  However, don't push those ideas off on me, I know better.  In fact, I have done better.  People like you will always play second fiddle because you refuse to play in the big leagues.

[Admin]

I/O,

The point I make to you is that not all Moscow women are spoiled rotten.  There are lots of decent, educated, attractive, and wonderful women in Moscow.  If you feel up to it, try to court and woo such a woman.  If you are successful, you will have won a prize beyond price.  If you are mediocre and need to look for a woman in dire straits, out in the hinterland, then you know your place better than I.  However, don't push those ideas off on me, I know better.  In fact, I have done better.  People like you will always play second fiddle because you refuse to play in the big leagues.

jb,

The post comes across as pretty arrogant. I don't feel like I am playing second fiddle to ANYONE in my choice to marry Olya. She comes from Kremenchug, which is not Kyiv and certainly not Moscow. She also carries herself with incredible grace and poise and quickly wins friends everywhere she goes - including among numerous Moscovites living here in the Denver area.

Maybe my perspective is limited and my opinion ignorant because I do not, admittedly, have benefit of being wed to someone from Moscow - but somehow, I don't think so.

- Dan

[jb]

Dan,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with ladies from Kremenchug, I'm simply saying there is nothing wrong with Moscow either.  Some ladies are getting a bad rap here, ill deserved at that.

[Turboguy]

jb, you certainly have not mellowed with your short vacation from RWD.  Believe it or not There are lots of decent, educated, attractive, and wonderful women in places other than Moscow as well.  

I do see a number of women from Moscow who have an attitude similar to Elen who used to post here.   I am not meaning this as negative about Elen just to cite a personality type that I would find totally unappealing as a mate but very interesting as a friend.   I liked Elen and enjoyed seeing her views and ideas but there is no way I would want to be married to someone with that attitude.  Others would find her wonderful I am sure.  We all have our own ideas about the kind of woman we want.   One man's prize beyond price is not always another man's.  

I have seen a lot of different spellings of FSU cities but not the one you used.  I am glad to hear it is another option.  This is a great site for learning.

[I/O]

I/O,

The point I make to you is that not all Moscow women are spoiled rotten.  There are lots of decent, educated, attractive, and wonderful women in Moscow.  If you feel up to it, try to court and woo such a woman.  If you are successful, you will have won a prize beyond price.  If you are mediocre and need to look for a woman in dire straits, out in the hinterland, then you know your place better than I.  However, don't push those ideas off on me, I know better.  In fact, I have done better.  People like you will always play second fiddle because you refuse to play in the big leagues.

JB, I continue to be amazed at the way you insult the majority of women in the FSU because they don't live in Moscow.  I am actually quite content playing my fiddle quietly in the "Little League" as I have never felt the need to shout my connections and new found affluance from the roof tops in order to justify my existance to the world. 

Getting one's b@lls caught in a cash register is not the most difficult thing in this world to achieve and actually doesn't require a "Big League" person to do that although a big ego can help.

I am under no illusion as to the quality of girls or women who live in Moscow.  As I remarked earlier, 2 of my closest Russian friends are ladies from Moscow. 

Anyway, this is going from the sublime to the ridiculous.   

I/O

[jb]

T/G,
Please don't start, you know what I think about your 38 years younger G/F,,, 'nuff said?

I/O,

You started this, don't wimp out now.

[LEGAL]

Inelegance is not the city or country where you are from but education you  receive.
The values one receives are instilled in us by our parents. Physical beauty is genetically given to us by our ancestors,but it is nothing without the beauty of ones soul.

JB. You insult many intelligent beautiful woman and there husbands from all over FSU and the USA with your ignorant comments!

[Admin]

Dan,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with ladies from Kremenchug, I'm simply saying there is nothing wrong with Moscow either.  Some ladies are getting a bad rap here, ill deserved at that.

I agree with you. We have several friends who originally hail from Moscow, and the ladies are among the finest I have met.

Having said that - the 'quality' people we know from the FSU have little in common geographically. What I mean is, we have some proportion of the people we know that we just really enjoy spending time with and they are quality people down-deep. One is from Krasnodar (sp?), another is from Riga, a couple are from Moscow, one is from Ekaterinburg - and there are a few others. We also know a few people from Moscow who are not among the people we spend close quality time with. I guess what I am saying is - it isn't so much about the city of origin - it is about what beats inside their chest. Judgments based solely on geography are almost certainly invalid.

FWIW

- Dan

- Dan

[Admin]

T/G,
Please don't start, you know what I think about your 38 years younger G/F,,, 'nuff said?

I/O,

You started this, don't wimp out now.

Naw - let's all walk away from the brink of this one.

Better to just step back.

- Dan

[Kuna]

I'm glad to be Australian where we can be contemptuous of "the social classes" and "so called status".

Several years ago I was checking into a hotel in Adelaide at the last minute and could only get a sub-pent in a "nice hotel".  After I got to the room a bottle of bubbles and basket of fruit was delivered with an apology from the manager for the added security on my floor that night.  In the morning I was waiting for the lift when our Prime Minister at the time joined me and as we rode down to the lobby we joked about the "Sh!t days we both had coming up".

Money?  People with REAL money rarely talk about it!

Class?  One who has class would never debate it... it's simply below them!

Highly educated?  We're all experts within our own domain. I respect someone that "knows their stuff" but I have more respect for someone who "Uses what they know"!

Surely there are good and bad everywhere...  Don't we continually try to dispell the "stereotypes" associated with FSU women and yet some of us here are trying to reinforce new stereotypes.

I think someone from an area with poor infrastructure or environment is obviously going to be more impressed by a more stable and predictable lifestyle in the west.  Personally, I'm looking for a girl who is impressed with me, NOT my country!

Kuna

[William3rd]

uhhh- my 2 cents-

Big city gets more opportunity than small city. High education gets same. Personalities are unique to the individual.

My current girlfriend and probably more is from a smaller city but has an MBA and is content in her city. And I am content in her city as well.

Its a little place called Udon. The only complaints that I am hearing is that there are too many foreigners in town looking for wives. . . .

[Photo Guy]

Interesting topic.

jb wrote (in another topic):
For New Years, my wife celebrated the day with some extraordinary Muscovites, friends of ours, a concert violist with the Moscow City Symphony, a well known and much celebrated artist, some New Russians with their own private jet to take them where ever they want to go in Europe, to name but a few,,, you know, just your everyday ordinary Moscow folks.  When in Moscow, I run with that crowd.  My cousin by marriage is the number 2 guy at the FSS, and a former Russian Ambassador to the USA.

This paragraph really stands out for me. It shows a mindset that I can't relate to at all.
It is all very IMPRESSIVE. As impressive as a huge diamond ring. Are you impressed too?
I would like jb to elaborate, because I do not really see the importance of social status,
or financial status, in choosing a wife.

I interpret I/O's statement in the same way that Dan does. I am willing to bet
most members here interpreted his statement in the same way.
'Do not limit yourself to searching in large cities'. Not controversial at all.
I'm sorry, but I think jb's current situation has colored his interpretation.
Most of us can relate to a death in the family and we are sympathetic.

Back to the city versus village discussion. How sophisticated does she have to be?
Rather than sophistication, why not focus on better qualities like...how 'nice' is she,
or how kind is she, or does she make you the best man you can be? or any number of
more important qualities...qualities more important than 'bling' or the number of
diplomas on her wall. And it's already been mentioned here that sophistication and
intelligence can actually be found outside of the big cities.  I am still not convinced that
either big cities or small villages are somehow superior venues for this quest.
Convince me. 

[LEGAL]

According to the data presented in the report by the Russian government the daily urban population of Moscow is 13 million
people including 6 million people immigrated from other places of FSU  even from China, Chechnya and so on.
Who can say that all Moscow people are pure-blooded Moscow residents?

The next historic fact.

The “Kuzbass” autonomous industrial colony was created in 1921 in Kemerovo, Siberia, Russia where I was living. It was organized by American workers, who took on the obligation of inviting from the United States and Western Europe some eight thousand skilled workers and specialists to industrialize the Kuzbass. The Soviet government turned over to the colonists a number of Kemerovo mine shafts and an unfinished coking plant. To recruit volunteers to work in Siberia, a “Kuzbass Bureau”
was opened in the middle of New York City, and an information bulletin began to be published in the United States. Between January 1922 and December 1923, however, only 566 persons arrived for work in the Kuzbass.
The colonists included emigrants from America, Canada, the Netherlands, France, Australia, Jamaica, Indonesia, and other countries as well. Who can say that blood of Siberian women could not contain American or French blood?

Some places of Siberia and North of Russia are places of prisons for  Russian  intelligentsia and aristocracy in Revolution and Stalin time.
who can say that blood of many women (who are not from Moscow)  is not the blood of Gold Russian aristocracy?
it doesn't matter where you live and who you are, what you think and what you feel is more important in the real life.
LEGAL's wife Olga.

[I/O]

Arguing the standard of "Quality" of people in the FSU based on geography is about as logical as saying that the "Meat products from Walmart are better than the Meat products from Lion", when the cattle were all raised on the same farm in Mexico.  (Of course something of a joke but I think the point will be understood) No logic whatsoever. 

I have seen scruff's and beauty alike in Moscow and I have seen scuff's and beauty alike in Romania, Siberia and a host of other FSU locations.  Certainly if one is "Set" on fashionable physical beauty, one will choose the area where one is most likely to find this.  Personally, although I like a women who is attractive (To me) and takes care of herself, physical beauty is of secondary importance. 

My ex wife was model material and if fact did some part time modeling, but that did not make her any nicer to live with.  The quality of the person within the person as others have pointed out is the real issue in my view.  I would never say that a beautiful woman can not be a wonderful person, but rather I am exampling my levels of importance.

I think the more important thing to focus on is a suitable match.  Nothing is "A Given" one way or another, but it seems to me from my observations, not only of international marriages, that ladies from bigger cities sometimes struggle in a rural environment, at least for some time.  Likewise, someone from a smaller town or a semi rural environment may struggle with living in a bigger city at first.  This is just simple sense.

The person who suggest that a move from the rural to the bigger city is always a "Step Up" is thinking about the same way as the little character below..............