The differences between AW and RW... What are/were you looking for?

[Kuna]

In a recent thread mention of the differences in AW to RW and the qualities men have found, or are seeking abroad.  It was suggested it would make a good topic for discussions.

For me... a BIG reason for looking to Ukraine was because I don't have children yet and I would like a family that includes a wife, kids, a picket fence, etc. 

It's not easy to find at home because the "very" attractive girls almost feel ashamed if they were to admit to wanting children. They've been conditioned to defend their independence, place career first and not become "victims" like their mothers.

In fact, I now have some female friends who are starting to realise their chance is or has slipped by, and now they're starting to regret the path they've chosen.  For some it'll be too late to correct their past decisions!

So for me...  a desire to have a family with children is a BIG driver for me looking to FSU for a partner.

What were YOU looking for when you started you search?

And for the married men,  what did you find once you REALLY got to know your wife?

Kuna

[Ste]

And for the married men,  what did you find once you REALLY got to know your wife?[/b]

Kuna

I was married.

After fourteen years I really got to know my wife so I divorced her!

So I recommend:

Two years looking at Dating agency sites

Three thinking about making a trip.

Two days in FSU, get married.

Six years doing the paperwork for visa

Two years in USA, you get jailed for false DV charges and she gets everything.

Then meet some woman from Britain whose on http://www.americanmenbehindbars.com and is looking for luuuurrrve....

Ste

 




 

[TexasBoar]

Things are so much . . . livelier when you're here, Ste. 

~Boar

[TexasBoar]

As for your OP, Kuna . . . I guess I'm considering this for largely the same reasons you are---at 48, I'm not completely SURE I want kids, but, well . . . I'm not ready to just throw in the towel on the idea, either. Going RW, with the attendant "younger, prettier, etc.," seems to keep that option open.

~Boar

[Ohotnik]

I went to the FSU looking for a wife that will put me first instead of a career. My fiancee wants to work but if it interferes with my time with her then it will be a dealbreaker. I want her waiting at the door naked with a cold beer in her hand when I get home from work. Also a clean house and supper on the table. I will work my normal 87-1/2 hour week. I then have off for a week and in that time I will spoil her rotten. AW I find have too many imaginary illness and take pills to wake up, to chill out, to diet, to cope etc. In a work a walking drugstore.I also don't want the attitude and the mouth. I am not politically correct so I don't tell them what the want to hear.  I want a slim attractive woman with a clear mind. I also love pellimini sp?.

[I/O]

It's not easy to find at home because the "very" attractive girls almost feel ashamed if they were to admit to wanting children. They've been conditioned to defend their independence, place career first and not become "victims" like their mothers.

This is about 1/2 fact and 1/2 fiction.  Kuna, you, if I understand correctly, are living reasonably high end in Bne central.  If this is the case, it is a fairly fast paced environment where career is pushed as being the "Be all and end all".  I know a few super girls from this area and yes they are focused on their career right now, but all of the ones I know, which include lawyers and accountants would happily quit their career path for a while in order to marry and have children. But and here is the But, they have choices, many choices regarding their lifestyle. Therefore, they are extremely demanding as far as their potential partner is concerned and a power dating program won't cut the mustard with these people.

Similarities between American girls and Australian girls have been eluded to before and although the overall career vs family thing may be similar, that is about where it ends.  I can tell any reader from personal experience with both, there is a vast difference.  If you think the American women are a tough market, I can promise you it gets tougher when you come down here. 

Comming back to my opening remarks, Kuna, "Brisvagas" has gained its name for several reasons, not least of all it is the fastest growing area in Au on percentages. Thus there is some very forward and fast thinking ideas present.  I think your view might be just slightly clouded by your geography and demographic association. I happen to know some very very attractive women in many areas who would swap career for family.  I don't think they feel ashamed of this at all, but I repeat, they are a tough and demanding market.  Nothing wrong with that.

I think you should understand that if you want the same quality from the FSU it ain't no pushover.  My choice in the FSU had nothing whatsoever to do with not being able to find an elegant, eloquent and compatible partner here.  It was for an entirely different set of reasons.  I am far from married to my FSU partner yet, but already I can see that the process thus far and probably well into the future has been a dammed site harder than it would be if I sought locally, irrespective of the attractiveness or family mindedness.

The other matter that will be interesting to hear from the married guys about is this.  I havn't yet met an FSU woman of anywhere near what I was seeking who does not want to work or perhaps have a career in some form or another.  Certainly, mine for example holds family as the number one, but she is never going to be a kitchen bound housewife, nor would I want her to be.

Don't fall for the trap of the "Grass being greener on the other side of the fence".  It ain't!!

I/O

[Rumpy]

So if the grass isnt greener on the other side of the fence in many ways ,,,,why are we all here?

I just want a woman that has some old fashion values,,,But I do want her to have a career.

[I/O]

So if the grass isnt greener on the other side of the fence in many ways ,,,,why are we all here?
I just want a woman that has some old fashion values,,,But I do want her to have a career.

Rumpy There is no reason why you can't find all that and much much more in the FSU. In the above, I may have been a little strong with my comments, but the purpose remains, that is, don't guild the lilly.  It is not all as simple as some seem to think.

I think it is better to let the married guys advise you more deeply.  They have much more experience than I have and I would assume, much more knowledge.  The matter is to remain realistic and develop a good understanding with the ladies you communicate with so you actually understand what they want in life.  It just may not be exactly as you think.  Never assume anything. Get it from the horses mouth so to say.

Hope that clarifies the point.

I/O

[Rumpy]

Point taken Oh wise one....My eyes hurt from reading this board all weekend.

To much data to take in ,,,but I am glued here ,When I think I have read as much as I need for a bit ,I run into something else that is so eye catching I cant turn it down

[Kuna]

This is about 1/2 fact and 1/2 fiction.  Kuna, you, if I understand correctly, are living reasonably high end in Bne central.  If this is the case, it is a fairly fast paced environment where career is pushed as being the "Be all and end all".  I know a few super girls from this area and yes they are focused on their career right now, but all of the ones I know, which include lawyers and accountants would happily quit their career path for a while in order to marry and have children. But and here is the But, they have choices, many choices regarding their lifestyle. Therefore, they are extremely demanding as far as their potential partner is concerned and a power dating program won't cut the mustard with these people.

Similarities between American girls and Australian girls have been eluded to before and although the overall career vs family thing may be similar, that is about where it ends.  I can tell any reader from personal experience with both, there is a vast difference.  If you think the American women are a tough market, I can promise you it gets tougher when you come down here. 

Comming back to my opening remarks, Kuna, "Brisvagas" has gained its name for several reasons, not least of all it is the fastest growing area in Au on percentages. Thus there is some very forward and fast thinking ideas present.  I think your view might be just slightly clouded by your geography and demographic association. I happen to know some very very attractive women in many areas who would swap career for family.  I don't think they feel ashamed of this at all, but I repeat, they are a tough and demanding market.  Nothing wrong with that.

I think you should understand that if you want the same quality from the FSU it ain't no pushover.  My choice in the FSU had nothing whatsoever to do with not being able to find an elegant, eloquent and compatible partner here.  It was for an entirely different set of reasons.  I am far from married to my FSU partner yet, but already I can see that the process thus far and probably well into the future has been a dammed site harder than it would be if I sought locally, irrespective of the attractiveness or family mindedness.

The other matter that will be interesting to hear from the married guys about is this.  I havn't yet met an FSU woman of anywhere near what I was seeking who does not want to work or perhaps have a career in some form or another.  Certainly, mine for example holds family as the number one, but she is never going to be a kitchen bound housewife, nor would I want her to be.

Don't fall for the trap of the "Grass being greener on the other side of the fence".  It ain't!!

I/O

I/O,

I wrote a HUGE response to this but then realised the topic probably needs a whole website, not a single post in a thread on RWD.  I've tried to break it down...

1. Women that are "ready to quit their career for a while and have children" are, in my experience, often emotionally scared for previous relationship battles.

Some think men and women are equal. Sexual equality is the greatest example of this being a myth.  Many professional women in my area have focused so much on career that they have had little time for relationships therefore they believed their feminist mentors and embraced their sexual power by moving through a series of casual relationships.  (Don't get me wrong, I have no problems with that).

What I do know is that women CAN'T DO CASUAL because their emotions take over while a man can often keep it physical.  What results is broken hearts or "imagined" broken promises.

2. Geography may be my issue.  I like everything about the girls I've been dating but they have lacked the "essence" I'm looking for.  I have recently met someone that might have that "essence" but it takes time to see that.  I'm no longer dating very young girls (19 - 24) because as gorgeous as they are they don't have the life experience that I'm looking for. I'm not sure that a girl for a regional city would have all the qualities I want either.  Looking to FSU for me is just expanding the size of the pool in which I can play.

3. I'm not looking for a wife that doesn't want a career.  A career is great, but family and emotional health must come first.  I don't need a wife to work after marriage. My ideal would be a wife who looks after the family and got her mental stimulation from joining some of the charity work I do, or becoming involved in activities which benefited the community.  Some aren't into that... but for me it would be the ideal.

I don't know what I'll find in UKR and I'm keeping my options open.  I'm treating my trip like a holiday with multiple goals but marriage to a UW isn't a goal.  Meeting a great girl who might become my wife one day IS a goal.  I may end up marrying at home.  I may marry abroad.  When I do marry it'll be with the right girl. 

Kuna

[IAmZon]

AW I find have too many imaginary illness and take pills to wake up, to chill out, to diet, to cope etc. In a work a walking drugstore.I also don't want the attitude and the mouth. I am not politically correct so I don't tell them what the want to hear.  I want a slim attractive woman with a clear mind. 

HAVE TRUER WORDS EVER BEEN SPOKEN?

I dated a girl who was a student in NYC (from a FSU country).  She was 27, came to the US by herself with only her luggage.  She worked 60 hours a week as a paralegal in a major law firm in downtown.  Took 12 graduate level credit hours after work and on the weekends.  Baby sat to earn a little extra money.  And her attitude was WONDERFUL.  "I loved my class today!" Then, who would give me the lecture to share her excitement.  She spoke English, Romanian, Spanish, Italian, and French.  she had a Masters in Business Admin, but wanted to get a PHD in languages.

She had an immigrant's spirit.  She was ALIVE.  She made me feel more so.  This characteristic is common to some extent with all the ladies I have met from the FSU.  What really freaks you out is to contrast them to their AW counterpart!

Kids and Family!  Me too Kuna.  If I am going to start a family, I want to get a "partner" who can make it as good as it gets. 

AGAIN, these are generalizations.  But there are some waters that the fishing is just better than others.

[Zhena]

I went to the FSU looking for a wife that will put me first instead of a career. My fiancee wants to work but if it interferes with my time with her then it will be a dealbreaker. I want her waiting at the door naked with a cold beer in her hand when I get home from work. Also a clean house and supper on the table. I will work my normal 87-1/2 hour week. I then have off for a week and in that time I will spoil her rotten. AW I find have too many imaginary illness and take pills to wake up, to chill out, to diet, to cope etc. In a work a walking drugstore.I also don't want the attitude and the mouth. I am not politically correct so I don't tell them what the want to hear.  I want a slim attractive woman with a clear mind. I also love pellimini sp?.

In the other words,you want an attractive doll who doesnt speak much? Be careful-she may turn in something you didnt expect from her.

[TexasBoar]

Not to worry . . . this:

I want her waiting at the door naked with a cold beer in her hand when I get home from work. Also a clean house and supper on the table.

. . . is either a troll, or a trainwreck waiting to happen. 

~Boar

[Kuna]

Finace (I thought you were changing your name) and Boar,

I saw that post too but I ignored it... I figured someone was going to come in and beat some sense into Ohotnik!



Ohotnik,

I think if you're looking for a submissive homemaker you might be looking in the wrong place.  I haven't been to FSU yet (11 days till takeoff) but from my correspondence with several ladies I know they're intelligent, goal driven and they WANT to use their education and drive.

Also, something I know from dating at home is that women just don't "get" it when a man works his guts out and then showers them with attention and gifts. They don't relate the two.  If I may be bold enough I might suggest that a woman was consistent attention.  Not constant, consistent.  If you have great times together and then they feel starved of those great times she will not feel loved.  Isn't that what we all want?  To feel loved?

Kuna

[I/O]

Not to worry . . . this:

. . . is either a troll, or a trainwreck waiting to happen. 
~Boar

I suggest the train wreck has long since happened. 

I/O

[Ohotnik]

Not to worry . . . this:

. . . is either a troll, or a trainwreck waiting to happen. 

~Boar

And fantasy is a bad thing? lighten up.

[Rvrwind]

The overall sentiment you all need to realize is plain & simple:
Women are women, no matter where they are from or where they are going. They are as diverse as the chocolates on the shelf in the candy store. To alude to any particular group & say that they are this way or that way is absolutely ludicrous. Just because they are from the FSU doesn't make them any different than women anwhere else, they are first & foremost women & with that comes a whole lot of totally separate issues depending on the woman, not where she is from.

[I/O]

The overall sentiment you all need to realize is plain & simple:
Women are women, no matter where they are from or where they are going. They are as diverse as the chocolates on the shelf in the candy store. To alude to any particular group & say that they are this way or that way is absolutely ludicrous. Just because they are from the FSU doesn't make them any different than women anwhere else, they are first & foremost women & with that comes a whole lot of totally separate issues depending on the woman, not where she is from.

God forbid that Richard and I might agree about something. But in fact I agree with this. (Largely)   As one prankster put it....."Women, if there ain't a problem with one end, there is sure to be a problem with the other".

I/O

[Kuna]

OK OK... I'll say it... but only because I/O has endorsed Richards comments and I feel like a debate.

I generally agree with Richard but the following comments are rubbish... or at very best, superficial.

The overall sentiment you all need to realize is plain & simple:
(1) Women are women, no matter where they are from or where they are going. (2) They are as diverse as the chocolates on the shelf in the candy store. (3) To allude to any particular group & say that they are this way or that way is absolutely ludicrous. (4) Just because they are from the FSU doesn't make them any different than women anywhere else, they are first & foremost women & with that comes a whole lot of totally separate issues depending on the woman, not where she is from.

My responses:
(1) True, but I don't know what this MEANS; (2) True, thank God or we'd get confused about which one WE belong to; (3) Rubbish...  What a load of tripe this is... but please let me explain later; (3) Rubbish...  but I think it's time I explain.

For anyone to say that women are the same no matter where they are from is an incredibly superficial view of the world.

Let me promise you that a girl living in central Brisbane on the river is VERY different to a girl raised in the outter suburbs of Townsville.  She'll also be different from a girl raised in Sydney's North Shore.   Shall I go on?  She'll be different from someone raised in Shanghai and she'll DEFINITELY be different from a girl raised in Iraq.  Oh, I'm also confident she'll be different from a girl raised in Moscow? Now... is a girl raised in Moscow different from a girl raised in a small village in Easten Russia?  Yes, I'd expect her to be different in some ways.

As humans our behaviour is effected by a number of things. Personality, ego, environment, experience, opportunity, etc.

What I don't like about my local girls is perhaps mostly a result of environment and experience.

Are there good girls in FSU?  I assume so.  Are there bad girls in FSU?  Hmmm... I think that's a safe bet! Are they motivated by the same core life "needs" as a girl in Australia?  Again, I bet they are.  Do they all act in the same ways or have the same values and goals as girls in my immediate vicinity?  I hope not.

I could look to other parts of Australia for a girl if I thought I might find what I'm looking for, but I don't think I'll find it.  Some of the type of girls I "appreciate" are here, I've met them but for one reason or another I haven't settled down with them.  Some are already married.  Some are yet to be discovered.

Will I find "her" in Ukraine?  Maybe, but there's no guarantee.

Women are NOT the same all over the world unless you're referring to them having two arms, two legs, two eyes, breasts and reproductive organs.  Life is just not that simple!

Kuna

Oh, let me add one more thing. 

When I hear men say they are looking to FSU only because they can find a better looking girl there than at home I am only convinced that they don't have the ability to date hot girls at home.  When you DO date the so called "hotties" at home you realise they have the same, if not worse personality flaws than you'll find in more "homely" girls.

What I'd say to any guy who is simply looking for a "looks upgrade" is be very, very careful.  There are men out there that will steal you're little princess away before you know it, IF you don't have a deep, genuine and lasting emotional connection with her. 

The only reason why men can't date hotties at home is because they don't understand ATTRACTION.  it's got nothing to do with looks.  If you don't understand it you'd better hope your wife doesn't encounter it after your married UNLESS you have the depth of committment that will be required for her to ignore the feelings that may be awakened after marriage.

I've said my piece... let the debate commence!   

[Rvrwind]

I disagree. Sure on the surface there are many differences depending on the country, location & enviroment. But deep down inside they are still women & they all want the same things & think basically the same way. I have met very few that don't fall into that same patern & usually those arn't what I would call women. You can argue all you like or debate all you like, but its been my experience & the experience of many who have dated lots of women or had ongoing relationships with lots of women that when you get down to the basics, there isn't a whole lot of difference.

[I/O]

Kuna: I don't have the time or inclination to debate this to any extent, but I would suggest getting your feet on the ground abroad before dumping on this too much.  As regards to likely success or otherwise in finding exactly what you (Generic comment here) want, please allow me to leave you to consider the advice given me in a business environment by one much older and wiser than me.

I had sold a business and was considering starting another.  I was somewhat apprehensive naturally.  I said to this guy, I am not sure if I can succeed with this.  His response flattened me.  "Were you successful with your last business?"  "Of course, yes" was my response. "Then you will be successful with this one also". He turned and walked away.  There is a serious clue in this, some will get it and some wont.  Make of it what you will.

I/O

[KenC]

You guys are dancing around the subject of differences.  I know a lot of RW here in America and I will tell you what I see as different in their behavior than that of AW.

#1 Femininity- RW don't hide it, try to cover it up or feel ashamed of it like AW, in fact they flaunt it.  They like being women and will not trade their feminine qualities for "equality" like AW.  Sure they want to be equal to their man, but different from him too.

#2 Family values- Most RW dream to have a family.  The exceptions are very rare.  For AW, some want kids, but when the time is right and as long as they can maintain their careers.  Kids come second to themselves, not so with RW.

#3 Sexiness- An AW is usually afraid to show her sexy side for the fear that she would be looked down at as a sleaze or some how devalued by appearing sexy.  RW know how to be sexy and classy at the same time and they have no fear of devaluation in the process.  A lot of this is due to the more open minded Euro ways in comparison to the American puritanical background.

#4 Sexual relations with their man- Now admittedly I have first hand experiences with only one RW, but my wife's RW friends talk and I listen too. AW grudgingly service their men and also tend to use sex or the denial of sex as a tool to leverage what they want to "get" from their man.  Sex from an AW is a "gift" to the man as though he has the privilege to have sex with her.  A RW takes great pride in satisfying her man sexually.  They have a tendency to make sure their man never leaves home "hungry", if you know what I mean.  They look at it as a challenge and a responsibility to keep their man happy in this area.

#5 Pride in personal appearance- AW tend to not care how they look in public.  Even if they are weight appropriate, they tend to dress like they are ready to paint a room at home when they are out in public.  No make up, hair a mess, and clothes that should have been donated to Goodwill.  They want to be comfortable and could care less what others think about their looks.  RW want to look good and to turn heads the moment they step out the door of their homes.  Even if it is to go to the mailbox!  My wife has been here now for 8 years and we did move to casual California, so some of this does get toned down, but most of it doesn't go away.  She may be wearing flip flops now, but you bet your ass that she has her make up & hair perfect and her outfit looks hot!

There's a few ideas for you guys to chew on for now.  I didn't go seeking these things, but I am sure glad I found them.
KenC

[jb]

Richard,

You say "women are women", the world around.  I disagree, Russian women are like American women like night is to day.  There is no comparison.  I'm surprised to hear you say that.  If that were so,,, why on earth didn't you marry a Canadian woman?  They are all the same,,, right?

Not...

[Zhena]

Have to agree with Ken about that things. But what about a character? I thnik some men making mistake thinking that FSU woman will be submissive and dependent and(oh god)cheaper than aw...Thats a BIG mistake-she most probably will be more expensive with all her documents and needs at the first time. So if you looking for a good deal-you re wrong. I just know some guys who did it and then regret alot...So you have to look for other values,not the myphic submissiveness(hope i spelled it right ).
Kuna-I have no idea how to change my nick here,as I understood I need to make a new profile-which I dont want.

[jinx13]

 Have to agree with all of KenC's points, and fiancee's character question too, but I can also see where Richard is coming from.

 Deep down, women are women no matter what country they claim, they have the same wants and needs, they want to love, and be loved. My relationship with Nataly actually isn't that different than previous ones I've had with American girls. All the stuff Ken listed is absolutely true, but it still comes down to a woman and a man, and how compatible they are together. Yes, I love her traditional values, but like fiancee said, Russian women are not submissive, I'm still expected to help out around the house, she doesn't wait for me "naked with a cold beer in hand", if she cooks dinner I better wash the dishes, and so on.

 Russian women are not some sort of creature from 'fantasy land'. It reminds me of the show on Comedy Central a few years back, "The Man Show". Very funny show with Adam Corolla and Jimmy Kimmel, basically every week they commented on and acted out every fantasy men have about work, life, and women in general. They even had their own dancers, the 'Juggies'. Some very hot girls wearing the traditional cheerleader, schoolgirl, nurse, etc. outfits. The girls were very sexual, drank beer, loved sports, you know the kind of girl you dream about    But it was just a TV show, I'm guessing those girls weren't like that in real life, they were just acting out mens fantasies. They go home and I'm sure they are just like most women, sometimes they are emotional, sometimes jealous, needy in one moment, very independent the next. Women are complex, but they do share many of the same traits regardless of country. If all our fantasies came true it could be a little boring right?  Well, i guess it could be fun for awhile 

 One thing most AW and RW have in common, they love to shop! Maybe that is one of those universal traits, it crosses all borders!