When I first started reading these boards...

[Joshfire]

I decided to make this post for those new guys who might feel the way I felt when I first started reading these boards.  (Let me say that while I do not post that often, I do read what others post.)

I was very excited at the prospect of learning about and dating a RW.  So when I first stumbled onto these boards after having been subjected to a variety of dating sites it was a relief to read posts from men who had been there and done that.  Before I got here, I was also aware of the potential for scammers and people willing to take advantage of others in this online world.  So I wasn't completely blind to the situation.  However, one of the key things to remember when reading these boards is that you will see certain men who have successfully navigated what for you are uncharted waters.  Finding someone that was right for them and enjoying a terrific partner in life.  (Albeit every marriage or long term relationship whether it is to RW or AW has it's ups and downs.  That is life and if you are committed to each other you work through the downs.)

And...

You will read these horror stories of men that were taken advantage of either via emotional pain or monetarily.  These are what I want to focus on for a moment.  When I first read the posts from these men, they far out-weighed the positive posts in my mind.  Because I kept thinking, "I don't want that to happen to me".  That mind set almost made me give up on ever embarking down this path.  (I guess you would call that FEAR!)

What you will come to realize (while their are exceptions) is that most of the men who have bad experiences, seem to continue to have them.  They don't listen to the advice given by the men and women who have succeeded in their search for the right person.  Or even from the man who is still searching, but who regards his experiences as nothing short of a wonderful adventure, knowing that in life they will meet some good apples and some bad. 

I continued to question everything.  Then sure enough I started corresponding with a few women I liked, then phone calls (you start to get a sense of what they are about if you ask the right questions)... then I just decided to hold my breath and take the plunge and was on my way to the Ukraine.  I didn't take a tour, I just went on my own, but I did read a lot of posts here about what I should expect travel wise and that helped A LOT!  I have been back a couple of times and yes I have met a wonderful women who's company I enjoy very much and we just fit together.  My point is, had I listened to all the negative posts without going and experiencing it myself I would have never met this woman.  So don't let someone who is living what appears to be a life in turmoil influence your decision making in a negative way about this whole process.  Read these boards and educate yourself as to what you might expect, there is a lot of good advice.

Then go see for yourself.  It will be worth it. 

Just remember the men with the victim / angry posts who continue to find misery thrust upon them. ..  I can pretty much guarantee you that they would find that same misery here or abroad.  It doesn't mean that will happen to you.

[Turboguy]

I think a little of the phenomena is that if you go for 6 months and have a very ordinary period then something very dramatic happens it is the dramatic day you talk about.  The other is boring.

Yes, there are some sad stories and you can get scammed, your heart broke, run into serial daters and GCG's.  People who have that happen sometimes can't quit talking about it.

You can also run into experienced guys who don't want to see someone start the process with bad ideas and wrong conceptions.  They don't want them to start if they don't have the finances, or the vacation time.   They can get negative sometimes but they are trying to help.

I am glad you learned, went and have found some success.  I am sure if I would have had something like RWD to learn from I could have saved a lot of trips and a lot of time.  As things worked out, I am glad I did not get snagged before I found my current gal.  To be honest about it, I probably would not have ended up with her if it were not for RWD.

[Fester5]

Kudos to both of you guys. I think your advice is exactly what some guys need to hear. 

I got scammed once and I learned from it to do some research and use sources like stop-scamming.com & the RWD.

I went to the Ukraine twice on my own just to experience the country, culture and for a little vacation.
They were only weekend trips but it was a great experience and gave me the confidence to start looking again.

Cheers,
Fes

 

[I/O]

The writer makes some good points, not least of all the loser will continune to lose and the winner will continue to win regardless of geography or race or culture.

I understand the point regarding the perception of negativity which can, at times be portrayed by boards such as RWD, but I suspect the reason these boards succeed is the people who have experienced and seen a lot become tired of watching innocent birds fly blindly into snares.  There is too much marketing by the "Fly-By-Night" agents and so forth that appear to promise love and bliss within moments.  Such a board will at least sober a few, all be it at times, if some rough advice is dispensed which may not always be to the taste of the reader.

There needs to be a balance and such as RWD goes at least part way to providing that balance.  It is a little similar to the police officer who remarked that all people should be forced to take a tour of the casualty room at the local hospital before they are allowed to apply for a driving licence.


I/O

 

[Joshfire]

I/O please understand that I have no problem with tough love answers.  Infact, I think those answers are generally the best kind.  I was more referring to the poster who no matter what advice is given has nothing but horror stories and how sometimes (or at least in my case) it can possibly scare off someone new to this experience.

[Kuna]

Joshfire...

Nice post...  I hope you post more often because I'd be interested to hear your perspective on some of the topics raised.

What I like about RWD is the diversity of experiences and ideas.  On the dating sites it's all glossy and wonderful.  On the scam sites it's all doom and gloom.  In here, it's REAL!

Kuna

[Bruno]

I was more referring to the poster who no matter what advice is given has nothing but horror stories and how sometimes (or at least in my case) it can possibly scare off someone new to this experience.

Why be scared with horror stories... these stories are here for help you, so you can realize that all is not white and beautiful... knowing horror stories can help you... if you know the possible holes on the way, you can calculate your best trajectory for reach your goal... else go blindly direct to your goal and pray for not fall in so holes...

Better be scared now and wait a little, until you feel yourself ready that jump in the unknow with the hope that you will never know a "crash and burn" story...

[catzenmouse]

Joshfire,

 Congratulations on your successful beginning! Good to know that the COGs (Crusty Old Guys) actually have some folks here who listen and heed their advice rather than just arguing with things they know nothing about.

 I tend to agree that often the winners will continue to win and the losers will continue to lose. That is the nature of their personalities also. It is not unheard of for a winner to lose but to not take it as a loss. Rather they will take the lesson and turn it to their favour (spelling for our Aussie friends  ) while the loser will take what could have been a valuable experience and whine about how they were robbed/lied to/scammed etc. All the same, do not discount the fact that there are plenty of people out there who will go far out of their way to take advantage of you. Some of them are very, very good at making you feel so good about this that you don't even know that you have been taken.

 There are plenty of successes to emulate and the best will be to become your own success story. I hope you will share with us how things are going for you and your lady and your thoughts and opinions of your travels.

Best of luck!
 Ken

[hornet7]

Joshfire,

It's been difficult for me to define and you did so.  Each time I posted a question in the areas that I thought I needed to be in, someone pointed out what a trogladyte I was carving petroglyphs on the wall of a cave somewhere in Mesopotamia. 

Your post separated the diamonds from the goat shit.  And it was a breath of fresh air. 

I'm taking a vacation in the Ukraine.  And if I get to take a few nice ladies to dinner in several towns in southern Ukraine along the way, I'll BeHappy...

It is the first trip of what I expect will be many.  Everybody talks about the money and the time---contrast that to what I've spent on hunting and fishing trips in the USA and on women in the USA...

Welcome aboard.  I invite you to overwhelm the negative posters with your thoughts...

[I/O]

( Aussie friends  )

    Big call this one   (Spelling) Just another thing we can hold against the Brits.


I/O Who has no British blood whatsoever.

[Joshfire]

Hey Hornet... Glad to be a ray of light.  Thanks for the support!  Have a great time in the Ukraine and enjoy yourself!

[Vaughn]

Joshfire,

  Since you've authored only seven posts, I went back and read every one of them - and concluded that you DID take heed of much good advice here (and doubtless elsewhere). I'm assuming you've made three journeys to date, no? Regardless, well done with your persistence and "solo" methods. I look forward to reading more - bring it on.

  The sardine-packed busride through nighttime Ukraine with stops in many podunk villages is a memorable one, LOL!! Remind me never to try that out!

Vaughn

[Maxx2]

I was more referring to the poster who no matter what advice is given has nothing but horror stories and how sometimes (or at least in my case) it can possibly scare off someone new to this experience.

You must be refering to me. I took it upon myself almost 4 years ago to use my experience to show to others what could happen to them if they chose unwisely. When I crashed I had just started reading these message boards. It was painful for me. With my eyes wide open I could see all the mistakes I made when I read the "how to's".  During this time I had been getting contacted by different guys about some GCG scams that they were going through. There were even several Russian women including one RW attorney who would call or PM me for advice for men they were trying to help. I thought it might be useful to pass some of these experiences along.

Maxx

[wiz]

 
I/O Who has no British blood whatsoever.

Me for a start and I am very proud born Greek!


Joshfire

Nice post and congradulations of finding the nice woman in Ukraine.

Not a veteran on this board maybe not even an experienced one I would say that this board is extremely helpfull for everyone who made the decision to get involved in this type of venture in finding the right woman for him.

We all have learned something over here which we can use it to our advandage, so we should not shoot down even the negative posts.

Look forward reading more posts from you.

[I/O]

Me for a start and I am very proud born Greek!

Wiz  It wasn't a question. It was a statement referring to another matter, but perhaps it is best not fully understood.

I/O

[wiz]

Wiz It was a statement referring to another matter, but perhaps it is best not fully understood.

I/O

Yes I understood it was a statement and that is why I made my comment. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I didn't have RWD when I started and pretty much did everything wrong, but here I am three years later married to a great RW and living in Crimea happy as a clam.  If I had followed the advice given here I don't know where I would be now.  Having said that, I believe that I am the extremely rare exception and wouldn't recommend my course of action to anyone.  I took way too many risks, but it paid off for me.  Maybe I had more insight early on to my wife than I give myself credit for.

[Maxx2]

I took way too many risks, but it paid off for me. 

That is the luck factor I see with allot of guys. There are three kinds of luck, dumb luck, the luck of finding a place (RWD) or mentor and the luck of having some related experience to this process such as a conniving AW ex-wife or lots of "dating skills". However a guy can come on to this board and just use it to get some visa or travel information and completely go off of it unaware that he needs to be cautious. That is where the horror stories come in. An average man learns from his own mistakes, a fool does not learn a thing and a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Maxx

[catzenmouse]

That is the luck factor I see with allot of guys. There are three kinds of luck, dumb luck, the luck of finding a place (RWD) or mentor and the luck of having some related experience to this process such as a conniving AW ex-wife or lots of "dating skills".

For me it was just plain blind god looks out for idiots dumb luck all the way. I did so many things wrong, maybe everything wrong, and I fell face first into a field of landmines and came out of it with a beautiful, wonderful woman who has graced me by being my wife for 2 years now.

Maybe that is why I get harsh or frustrated with folks sometimes. I see them thinking the way I was thinking and doing the things I was doing. Fellas, if you depend on luck you will fall on the mine 99% of the time. The dumbest thing that you can do is to ignore the advice of those who have done it right and taken the high road/good path/whatever you want to call it.

This is not a race. This is not for the faint of heart. This is not for the wishy-washy. This is not for the thin skinned.

This is serious, life changing, expensive, hard, patience wrenching, and if you do it right it is the very best most fullfilling, most wonderful thing in the world.

Ken

[jb]

For me it was just plain blind god looks out for idiots dumb luck all the way. I did so many things wrong, maybe everything wrong, and I fell face first into a field of landmines and came out of it with a beautiful, wonderful woman who has graced me by being my wife for 2 years now.

Ken,

That's how it is for most of us.  God does look out for fools and drunks.  To this day I don't know how I stumbled up on a woman as wonderful as my wife, or what she saw in me.

Just count yourself lucky it happened.

[catzenmouse]

That's how it is for most of us.  God does look out for fools and drunks.  To this day I don't know how I stumbled up on a woman as wonderful as my wife, or what she saw in me.

Just count yourself lucky it happened.

I do. Every moment of every day. Dummy that I am I often enough do not relay that information to she who makes it all worth it.

Note To Self: <Smack to the head> Pay Attention!

[Jet]

Excellent post catzenmouse! spot on.
The other dynamic of discussion forums that new guys need to be aware of, is that often times the guys who did "get it right" fade off into the sunset, as they are busy enough making a new life w/ their wives, that there simply isn't time or inclination to continue posting. In the first 6 months after my wife arrived I probably posted once a month or less. There were other, more important things to attend to at the time. Even now, I post far less than I did whilst in the waiting phase (and it's usually late at night or early in the morning). This leaves the people with a lot of time on their hands to do the bulk of the posting, so one would naturally tend to assume that's either the guys just getting started or the guys who repeatedly bomb out, no wonder a large percentage of posts are either questions or horror stories.  :noidea:

[Joshfire]

First let me just say "Thanks" to the many well wishers and welcomes to the boards.  I appreciate it.  I have been lurking in the shadows on here for a while.

Maxx - To be truthful, I wasn't referring to one individual, just a variety of posts that I could see scaring off someone new to this endeavor.

Vaughn - You have no idea how much these boards helped and prepared me for my journeys.  I have traveled to the Ukraine three times now.  I will tell you though that right from the get go I was pretty lucky.  On the first flight over I met a guy who lives in NY but travels to the Ukraine once a month on business.  He got a kick out of the fact that I pretty much walking blindly into God only knows what.  So he gave me his number and told me that if I had any problems (police or women) to call him.  He also invited me to go out with him and some other Americans my first weekend in Kiev.  That never happened... once I hit Independence Square I was like a kid at Disneyland.  It is truly amazing, yes I am referring to both the city and the myriad of women.  Like nothing I had ever seen and I live in LA.  (I could spend hours writing about my first impressions and trip stories but I will leave that for another time.)

I had rented an apartment online and not through a marriage or dating agency (why pay even more money for the same apartment) but one that specialized in travel and accommodations throughout the Ukraine.  They (Oksana especially) went out of their way to help me, including supplying me with a sim card at no charge so that I would have a Ukrainian phone number while I was there.  Geez... I'm sort of getting off track... but for those that are interested the website is - http://www.kievrent.net  My apartment was literally right on the square.  Also for those interested you do not have to buy a cell phone there.  (I met a few men there that had done just that.)  Just make sure your cell phone is a quad or tri band phone and that it is unlocked so that you can switch your sim card out.  If your phone is not unlocked, just take the model of your phone and it's serial number, then search Goggle for unlock codes.  I paid $9.00 for mine and had my phone unlocked in minutes.  Or if you are buying a new phone, tell them you want it unlocked.

Okay where was I...

I should point out (and there is some debate about whether to do this or not) I went to meet two women I had been talking to.  Right upfront before I even got there, I was honest about that fact with both of them and they understood my reasoning.  (What if we are not right for each other?)  However, once I got there they both were a little less ammenible to my meeting another woman idea.  But I stuck to my guns about that.  Saying that I had made a promise to meet both of them and how would they feel, if they were the one I told I wasn't coming to meet now that I had met the other woman.  And I wasn't trying to be glib about it, I just wouldn't want someone doing that to me.  It was a bit of a tightrope walk, but it worked out.  I spent a week with one and a week with the other.  Also, I made a decision to focus on women who were fluent in English.  I figured things were hard enough with cultural differences, so why make matters harder.

Something else I can add for anyone who is interested.  I purchased my airline tickets through a travel agency in NY.  (I did a lot of researching for the best deals.)  For my flights (LA to NY, NY to Kiev and Kiev to Odessa round-trip) the most I have paid is $989.00 during the summer and fall months into winter $684.00  All through Aerosvit.  The woman that I dealt with is named Luba Markovetska 1-800-755-3080  and she seems to find better deals than anyone else I could find.  Oh, also you can upgrade to Business Class on Aerosvit (which is their first class) at the ticketing gate for $400 if you are interested.  It's a lot cheaper than booking the ticket in advance.

So, I know that I could have spent a lot more time discussing the women, the Ukraine and my sentiments about both.  But I will leave that to the trip reports and the more experienced.  I'm just dishing out travel info for anyone who wants it.

[KenC]

Joshfire,
I am very impressed with the content of your posts!  You're one of the guys that "gets it."  In a any message board like this one there is a lot of advice bandied about, some good and some bad.  One really does have to consider the source of the advice given here as with any similar forums.  Some members here have a tendency to overstep their "area of expertise" and dole out advice that is nothing more than a guess based on nothing more than a hunch.  There are even some here that think we are here just to be encouraging even if the person is traveling down a wrong path.  (No need to confuse him with the facts, I guess?)  Still others are more concerned with the tone of the delivery of the advice as opposed to the quality of the advice given.

If you read enough of this forum, you will be able to observe the MO of the regular posters as well as their "on board" persona's.  I know who I would go to for answers to certain questions and who's advice I would immediately ignore, but the newbies don't.  Not all the newbies have your apparent ability to pick and choose the correct advice to follow unfortunately.

The confusing part of this process is that literally any method can work.  A man can do everything wrong and still come out smelling like a rose.  Conversely, a man can do everything right and end up in a nightmare too.  So what is the course that should be taken?  I say it is eliminating as much of the risk as possible step by step.  This is a risky venture on it's face, why continue to push the envelope at every turn?  Incorporate the methods that successful men have used where ever possible and deviate from them to accommodate your specific situation as little as possible knowing that you are increasing your risk of failure by doing so.  Some times the risk vs. reward is worth it and some times it ain't.

Best of "luck" to you, but some how I don't think you will be needing much of it because you have done your homework well and have limited your risks as much as possible.
KenC

[Maxx2]

I agree with every word KenC says.

It would be helpfull to the newbies that I post in front of my horror stories that these types of situations can be avoided in most instances with an education of the process and the use and application of that education.

Welcome to the board Joshfire.

Maxx