How necessary English?

[ScottinCrimea]

One of the things that I always tell anyone who is looking for an FSU wife is to find someone who has some adequacy in English.  I remember one man I tried to communicate this to with no success.  He would send me the profiles of the women he was interested in and they all had two things in common: very cute and zero English.  Needless to say his trip here was a disaster.  My wife speaks English very well and still we sometimes have problems with misunderstandings due to culture or semantics.  It has been a huge help that I can understand Russian because it has made it easier to bridge the gaps.  I can't imagine getting to know someone well enough to want to marry them if I could not have even a basic conversation on serious subjects without an interpretor.  The idea that she will learn English once they are married and living in the US just doesn't make sense to me.  I look at those successful couples on this site and one thing that they all seem to have in common is that the wife speaks excellent English.  I'm curious to know how many success stories we have where the FSUW spoke little or no English and what the success rate might be.  This might be one recommendation for success that, if not added to the 10 commandments, at least placed as an appendage.

[ScottinCrimea]

Okay, after I posted this topic my wife gave me one more thing to think about.  Her comment was, "How serious can a woman be about finding an American man to marry if she is not willing to learn even basic English beforehand?

[Kuna]

Scott,

This is an excellent topic to raise and your wife's comments make a lot of sense...

One of my "key selection criteria" was GOOD English.  It didn't need to be perfect but I can't understand someone considering marriage without talking through the "tough stuff" with the girl they meet. No translator will provide a good enough service for me to reach a point of confidence.

Even though all girls I'm corresponding with have good English (as a minimum) there have been times when I've had to explain something a few times.  I don't mind that because it's much better than no understanding at all!   ???

Kuna

[Michelangelo]

This subject has been much discussed here at RWD.  People have differing opinions, usually based upon their experience.

When I was seeking, I dated girls all types, from girls who spoke English better than I do, to girls who spoke poor English.

Younger girls and better educated girls, and girls from cities tend to speak English better than their counterpoints.

My take?   Date girls who speak English, if marriage is your goal.

Marriage and adjustment to a new country is difficult enough...I can't imagine being able to do this with a girl who does not speak English.

We have happy marriages here involving girls who did not speak English at all...and those couples are to be congratulated.  But if you are just starting out~look for a girl who speaks your language.

[swindoom]

This has beaten to death many times on here with very polarised views, some believe she should speak good English, some think it is not important and never the twain shall meet.

[KenC]

Scott,
I couldn't agree more with you and your wife.  As you said, even though Lena spoke very good English, we still had our moments with communication in the few few years.  It got to a point where we had to stop and first think it was misspoken or misunderstood English before getting upset with each other regarding what one of us took as an offensive comment.

 Strong and close relationships are not built in a day or two, or even a week or two.  It is more like peeling an onion: one small layer at a time until the couple truly knows each other.  How much peeling one can do without a common language, is minimal in my mind.  Of course that all depends upon how deep you need to go for you own comfort too.  Maybe all some need is the very shallow amount of knowledge that can be obtained via grunts & groans & hand signals.  Kind eliminates the idea of finding your "soul mate" in this process, doesn't it?  I mean how well can you possibly know each other if you cannot communicate anything more than "I like" with a smile or "I don't like" with a frown?  Not to mention the total frustration the couple will go through in trying to develop something real without the ability to transfer more than primitive gestures or using an electronic translater.

Still, some will try it and even though it is not what I would do.  And it can work under a few conditions.  One way it will work is if you are the two luckiest bastards in the world or your level of expectations for a mate are rather minimal.  The only other way I see for a relationship to work with the language barrier, is to take the time in order for the English to develop.  

Gator is a good example of this.  He has already spent more time and energy with his cossack than the average man in this process and he knows there is something there to pursue in his woman of choice.  But as wonderful as things have been, Gator also understands to reach the next level, language is the only key that will open that door.  Fortunately, he has the patience and the time to wait it out.  Most don't.

What's  that I hear?  The thundering hooves of the "grunt & groan" crowd about to tell us all about body language and their psychic powers of observation?  I will never buy into that you can learn much more than only the most superficial information without a common language.  But that's me, I wanted this marriage to be my last and it was going to take a lot more than a pretty face and a few well placed grunts & groans to be sure.
KenC

[TwoBitBandit]

There's the other option that nobody seems to mention....  learn Russian...   

[swindoom]

You could say that having a strong desire for only women with good English will severally limit your selection and you could accidently exclude that one woman who was your true "soul" mate.

If you are in a rush or cannot be bothered/able to spend the required time getting to know someone then you should correspond with a good English speaker.

Her English ability becomes very important when things start get serious.

Your English ability should be good also as you are going to asked many English questions you have probably not heard since school and you need to be able to spell.

In the end it is personal choice/circumstances/attitude that determine the way you do things.

[Rvrwind]

Her comment was, "How serious can a woman be about finding an American man to marry if she is not willing to learn even basic English beforehand?

Because some women are not specifically looking for an American or English speaking man. Some are open to other possibilities. But once the decision is made, no matter what the language she will learn & much quicker than you could ever learn Russian.

[ScottinCrimea]

    KenC, I agree 100% with your post. Michelangelo talks about dating all types, but in the end he married one who spoke English.  I don't think this was just a coincidence.  He mentions several couples on this board with happy marriages where the wife spoke little or no English at first but I haven't heard of any in my time on the board and I haven't seen any speak up so far on this thread.  Also, in the 4 years of traveling here and living here, I have yet to see one such success story but many failures for just this reason. If there are any, I would be interested to hear of their experiences.
     By the time I began to date my wife, I wasn't interested in a superficial relationship and wasn't prepared to marry her and then hope she learned English well enough for me to truly discover who she was inside.  And I sure as heck wasn't going to trust these intimate conversations to an interpretor or electronic translator.
     I think there are many here who still want to believe that the cute 22 year old blue eyed blonde haired RW who they communicated with through smiles and nods of the head will share their beliefs, likes, dislikes, thoughts on marriage and the world once they have her home and she learns English.
     So many talk here about how to maximize their chances of success.  While there are maybe rare exceptions, I can't think of one single thing that will increase your chances of success more than having someone you can effectively communicate with from the beginning.  If she doesn't know English or you don't know Russian, it's going to be a very long process to find out who each of you are.  If you have the time, and money and you BOTH have the patience, by all means go for it. but you're playing against the odds.

[KenC]

Scott,
To be totally honest about this, there have been some couples that made a success of this faced with little or no common language between them.  It is still a crap shoot at best though and I for one hesitate to encourage anyone to try it because even though it could work most couples will not take the necessary time to wait for the language barrier to catch up to the the relationship before making a final commitment.

As I said in another thread, anything can work, but what is the reality of the risk?  Hey, I defied the odds so far with the age gap question, but I didn't push it in any other category.  What I see here, is guys that push their luck in one area after another.  Large age gap?  No problem, KenC did it.  No English?  No problem, Mr X did it.  One week of knowing each other?  No problem, Stan in HI did it.  A couple may be able to defy the odds of failure on an exception here or there, but when you start stacking one risk on top of another, your percentages of success drop exponentially.  Most of this is just common sense.  If you don't know who you are marrying, you deserve to get whatever you end up with.  And you won't know until it is too late.
KenC

[Bruno]

I'm curious to know how many success stories we have where the FSUW spoke little or no English ...

A lot if you see the rest of the world... some RW have marry Spanish, Italian, French, German, Dutch, etc... in all these case, little english is not really a problem...

My girlfriend speak Russian, Ukrainian, English and German... She have recently begin with French, my mother language and wish learn Dutch, the language from the place i live...

Success story don't exist because of "English"... success story exist because both partner work on the relation to transform it in a success... a bitch speaking english is always a bitch...

[LEGAL]

Okay, after I posted this topic my wife gave me one more thing to think about.  Her comment was, "How serious can a woman be about finding an American man to marry if she is not willing to learn even basic English beforehand?

I absolutely agree with your wife. If woman can't even fill in a form without assistance, can't tell about her interests and so on. How can you  have a conversation with her. The mutual understanding plays
important role especially at the beginning of relations. But it is not possible without conversation. You can associate with your woman by means of gesticulation and smiles but this way is not way for educated people. Language as a means of reasonable intercourse.  It's my opinion a woman who is really intelligent will not search for  foreign  husband if she doesn't know even basic foreign language. And really intelligent woman begins to learn the foreign language before her search not after
Olga.

[Rvrwind]

He mentions several couples on this board with happy marriages where the wife spoke little or no English at first but I haven't heard of any in my time on the board and I haven't seen any speak up so far on this thread.

Well I'm here to tell you I did it & I consider after 3+ years that we are doing just fine.
I may not of put it in this thread but I did post it in another.
Man was communicating without language long before the spoken word & the alphabet were invented. If you let that stop you from meeting people then you are going to miss out on a lot of great new friends. Thats fact, not fiction. If you allow language to be a barrier then it will be, but if you go into it with an open mind, it won't be.
This has been argued time & again just like the age gap subject. Its a waste of boardspace because everybody will do what is best for them in the end. Trying to get them to change is a waste of everybodies time.

[jinx13]

It's my opinion a woman who is really intelligent will not search for  foreign  husband if she doesn't know even basic foreign language. And really intelligent woman begins to learn the foreign language before her search not after
Olga.

 Totally agree with Olga here. My first RW spoke very little English, I met her through an agency, so she must have thought about marrying a Western man, so surely she thought that language is necessary to build a relationship, right? NOPE, she made absolutely no effort to learn English, even after I paid for lessons. She went to these classes for awhile but then got sidetracked with work and dropped out. When I look back, I would say 90% of our problems were based on the fact that we could not communicate. So after things ended with her I made it a priority that the next girl must know English, and yes I studied up on my Russian too. As a result I met a lot of great girls and ended up with Nataly who speaks English very well. I can't imagine a real relationship that can last without communication, it's the most important thing in my opinion. So yes, English is necessary, and so is a little bit of Russian.

[jb]

Thank you, Olga, for putting the case together so eloquently.

My wife was fluent in English before she ever thought about a foreign husband.  Her father insisted she learn English as a child because he understood the future of Russia depended upon a marriage between the east and the west.  He was a very wise and brilliant man.  I am forever thankful for his wisdom.

Any person who goes into this must do some personal preparation, getting the languages down pat should be elemental in everyone's thinking.

[Rvrwind]

This is my post from the other thread:
Well I guess we are an exeption then, because when I met my wife she knew about four words in English. Now I can't shut her up!!!   (Just joking sweety.)
Language is only a barrier if you allow it to be. Mankind was communicating long before a real language was spoken. That is fact, not fiction. Sure maybe it ain't the easiest course but anything worth attaining really never is easy, at least never has been in my life!

It's my opinion a woman who is really intelligent will not search for  foreign  husband if she doesn't know even basic foreign language. And really intelligent woman begins to learn the foreign language before her search not after

Totally rediculous statement.
Many women will never & I mean never meet a foriegn man no matter what language he speaks. Why should she waste her time & money learning a language she may never have a use for. After a relationship has developed then she should put her all into it as my wife did, but before, lets get real. I don't see you guys bustin' your humps to learn Russian, so in my opinion, practice what you preach or as my wife puts it, you want Russian woman, you want to live in Russia, then learn Russian!

[Michelangelo]

see  quote above...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guys, when you quote somebody would you PLEASE tell who you are quoting????

I'm not going to look backward in the stand to find out who made the statement.

Be courteous to the readers here; don't use an unattributable quote.

[KenC]

This is my post from the other thread:
Well I guess we are an exeption then, because when I met my wife she knew about four words in English. Now I can't shut her up!!!   (Just joking sweety.)
Language is only a barrier if you allow it to be. Mankind was communicating long before a real language was spoken. That is fact, not fiction. Sure maybe it ain't the easiest course but anything worth attaining really never is easy, at least never has been in my life!
 
Totally rediculous statement.
Many women will never & I mean never meet a foriegn man no matter what language he speaks. Why should she waste her time & money learning a language she may never have a use for.

Now there is a truly ridiculous statement if I ever saw one.  Let's see now, if a girl wants to hook up with an American guy and learning English would dramatically increase her chances and she will have to eventually learn it any way, why wouldn't she?  What you propose as an excuse and is very self defeating.  Don't learn English because you won't need it because no one is coming to see you because you don't know English. :noidea:

After a relationship has developed then she should put her all into it as my wife did, but before, lets get real.

Is that one of them thar "grunt & groan" relationships?  How deep and rewarding that must have been!  Sorry, but I based my marriage on a little more substantial information than that.

I don't see you guys bustin' your humps to learn Russian, so in my opinion, practice what you preach or as my wife puts it, you want Russian woman, you want to live in Russia, then learn Russian!

That would be true if you were going to live in Russia.
KenC

[Zhena]

To say frankly,if the man wouldnt mind about my english at all-I would have doubts he is serious ::)How is possible to get to know a person without a common language? ??? My english not perfect and I continue to learn-but when I started I was able to talk and have a normal conversation. For me is very important to know what my man thinks about this or that,what is his goals and values. For him its important also to know what I think and communicate. If a man wants a speechless woman-for me its a red flag,like hes not interested much in her personality.

[jb]

I don't see you guys bustin' your humps to learn Russian,

But,,, unlike you, Richard, I did bust my hump to learn Russian before I traveled to Russia... IIRC, you didn't know 25 words of Russian before you made your first trip.  I OTOH took the six month intensive Berlitz course in conversational Russian to get up to speed.  I've been living with a RW for 5 years and Russian is spoken more commonly in our house than English.

But,,, at least we had a common language between us.

[I/O]

I don't see you guys bustin' your humps to learn Russian

You don't see because you ain't here. Notwithstanding my pretty dammed poor Russian, if anyone is seriously looking for a Russian woman, then they are being fairly narrow sighted if they don't at least try to learn some Russian.  She might be able to speak English, but what about her family and friends?  Does anyone want to sit in a social situation looking like a dumbass because they can't join in conversation.  If one goes there to meet a lady seriously, you will be looking at more than just the lady.  A good chat with her mother or father or friends can often reveal more than direct communications. I've found most Russians quite tolerant of my poor Russian language, but they certainly appreciate my making some effort.

As for her lack of English, it depends at what stage of learning she is at.  But honestly, be realistic, English is the biggest second language and Russians as well as anyone know that it is becoming more and more necessary.  If she has known for any more than about two weeks that you are comming to visit her and she has not made some effort to at least learn a few words, she aint serious.

Nevertheless, back to the origional question.  I think at least some English in some form is necessary.  When mine and I first met she had about zero spoken English, but certainly was able to read and understand some English.  More than I expected, so within  a couple of days we were communicating quite freely and within 10 days we very rarely if at all referred to the translation dictionary. 

I think any woman's  effort in this area speaks volumes for her real intentions and or the type of person she really is.

I/O

[TwoBitBandit]

I don't see you guys bustin' your humps to learn Russian

Ahem, I think you've forgotten that time we were in the Osnabrook hotel and I straighted out a billing issue with the hotel staff in Russian, and afterward you confessed that you didn't have a clue what I said.

Some of us *are* busting our ass to learn Russian.

[SANDRO43]

Mankind was communicating long before a real language was spoken. That is fact, not fiction.

Yes Richard, but at that time men did not use a dating agency and went wife-hunting with a club (and that REALLY stunned them into acceptance ). Do you offer a good selection of clubs at Tver Angels ?

[LEGAL]

Some of us *are* busting our ass to learn Russian.

Thank you I/O, Jb, Zhena, KenC, Jinx13,ScottinCremea. I could not have stated it better then what you all have said collectively  .When I first met Jet back in 2004 he gave me Pimsleur's language program and told me to learn it. To this day I think of what would have happened if I didn't. By no means does this  mean I am fluent in Russian. I break my hump to continually learn the Russian language. Olga's English is very good and getting better on a daily basis due to her tenacious appetite for learning and being around Attorneys, Doctors and many other professionals with whom I work with on a daily basis. Many of these people comment to me alone on how amazed they are in just over four months they have noticed a tremendous difference in Olga's English.I wonder how stressfull or at all possible it would be to discuss basics of shopping to politics,law,religion, Art and many other  subjects Olga and I discuss, without the ability of both party's willingness to learn. I might be wrong in this statement isn't the universal business language English?   I am sure I opened the door on this one, so easy people I have a had a long day. To me what  both party's put into to learning each others language speaks volumes on how they feel about each other and at the same time relieves many many obstacles that can cause ireputable harm do to missunderstanding each others language. I have seen first hand the problems that can occur wether one is in courtroom or a restaurant. I hope I have helped shed some light on this touchy subject. THE MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE

LEGAL