Blending of Cultures in Married Life

[Michelangelo]

After two years at RWD (I joined in Jan 2005), my need to know points have changed.  Before, I was keen for info on how to operate in the FSU.

Now, after having my Vik here in the US since August, I'm interested in the evolution of relationships between FSU women and their foreign husbands in their new home.

So this is my question: How do the cultures blend?  More to the US life?  Or do you maintain clear customs from the FSU in your home? If so, which ones?

For us, it's mostly her accommodating to US culture.   We mostly eat American food (not the spicy ones), but a couple times a week she cooks FSU dishes.  We do take our shoes off in the house; something I never did before.  She is leery of American medicine and usually goofs it up in the way she takes it or refuses to take it.

For the married guys or guys living with an FSU girl in the US (or other non-FSU country), tell us about your homelife....how is your home like an FSU home, or how is it different?

[Bruno]

For the married guys or guys living with an FSU girl in the US (or other non-FSU country), tell us about your homelife....how is your home like an FSU home, or how is it different?

Do you accept the divorced one ? 

So this is my question: How do the cultures blend?  More to the US life?  Or do you maintain clear customs from the FSU in your home? If so, which ones?

From my own experience, it is not 50% FSU and 50% own country ( in your case, USA )... but it is more 200%... not specialy a blend but more a adding from the two culture... you will stay a 100% AMerican but will learn some % of Russian culture... for her, she will be 100% Russian and will learn some % of American culture...

And it is why a marriage with foreign is interesting... it is not about lose some part of your own culture, it is about add a new layer to your own culture... you become more "rich" at the culture level... everybody win in the process...

For us, it's mostly her accommodating to US culture.   We mostly eat American food (not the spicy ones), but a couple times a week she cooks FSU dishes.  We do take our shoes off in the house; something I never did before.  She is leery of American medicine and usually goofs it up in the way she takes it or refuses to take it.

It is more that about shoes or food... you are at a early stage of the relation... don't know if you have plan to have children... but if it happen, you will know the russian wolf mother  Same if she live in US, she will learn the child to speak Russian ( or Ukrainian )... at 6 year old, your child will master the two language... let say that for the future of your child, 1( you ) + 1 ( her ) = 3 ( compare your child to other child )... you maybe not realize it now but the next generation of "Michaelangelo" will be in the top categorie...

Best example is the JB children... contact with both culture and on the top in both society... i think that it is the best legacy for any father... what a reward...

And this is only at the level of children... but yourself, you change daily... your are a business man... imagine yourself with the American ethic and with the "balls" of Russian  ... my friend, you are on the ladder... only possibility is to go up ( or fall like i have make )... don't be surprised if your actual wife advice you on your actual career... she will push you to go up and use any method for motivate you... a RW is able to make his man a great man...

In any case, don't be afraid... if she love you, she will help you to choice the best way for you 

PS : the best way is not always the easiest 

[Bruce]

Bruno, good post.  I think in general your post is right on.  I just do not have time to respond appropriately right now Michael or I'd add some more thoughts.

[ScottinCrimea]

I can only answer from the perspective of an American man living in Ukraine with a Ukrainian wife.  For the most part, I'm making every effort to integrate into the Ukrainian way of life.  My wife and I speak to each other about 80% in English and 20% in Russian, mainly because her English is still better than my Russian.  I speak with her daughter strictly in Russian because she understands little English.  When friends come over, we all talk in Russian with the occasional clarification in English by my wife.  We listen to Russian radio and watch Russian television.  I have my nice stash of CD's for when I need a good fix of Rock and Roll but find I listen to them less and less.  Our food is typical Ukrainian but I like to cook and have brought over a nice supply of Western spices and ingredients and typically cook American a few times a week.  I try to avoid anything too spicy but have my handy bottle of tabasco sauce for my own needs.  We celebrate both American and Ukrainiain holidays.
     Basically it is a Ukrainian household with a few American amenities.  I'll be taking my wife to stay in the US for several months soon and I suspect the roles will reverse.  My hope is to keep the best of each culture.

[Michelangelo]

Thanks, guys-- good posts.

Yes, Bruno, we want to have children and have already decided that Vik will speak to the child in Russian and I will speak to the child in English.  And the child will hear us speaking to each other in English.

Culturally, I hope we can get beyond the negative mentality that we are all doomed :-)   If something goes wrong, all will go wrong all day long.  Just spent such a day and now Vik is in bed at 8:30   

Scott- Your situation is unique, and you more than anyone understands what an FSU woman experiences when she is planted in America. Thanks for sharing.

[ScottinCrimea]

     One thing you might want to consider if you want to have a child that is bilingual is acquiring a lot of childrens' books, videos, etc in Russian.  Children learn a lot of their language from these.  If you can't find any there, let me know.  We have a bunch of old childrens' books that we plan on just getting rid of.
     I had to laugh the other day when my wife's daughter asked me as she was watching TV if we have SpongeBob in the US.  Darn, I never knew the guy was bilingual!

[catzenmouse]

It is truly a blending of the two. Not a specific measurement one way or the other. It will ebb and flow as necessary. I guess we try to take from each what works for us but there are plenty of little things that come up from time to time that put a lump in the mix that needs to get smoothed out. And yes, you will probably have more days like the one you just had. Don't stress it, keep the end in mind and chug another gallon of patience and understanding. Vik is more than welcome to call if she wants.

Ken

[Michelangelo]

It is truly a blending of the two. Not a specific measurement one way or the other. It will ebb and flow as necessary. I guess we try to take from each what works for us but there are plenty of little things that come up from time to time that put a lump in the mix that needs to get smoothed out. And yes, you will probably have more days like the one you just had. Don't stress it, keep the end in mind and chug another gallon of patience and understanding. Vik is more than welcome to call if she wants.

Thanks, Ken....what you describe is exactly true with us...

It's great; but all newbies need to know it's extremely difficult for a girl to live on the other side of the earth and become a wife in a strange land...   Very difficult.

[I/O]

all newbies need to know it's extremely difficult for a girl to live on the other side of the earth and become a wife in a strange land...   Very difficult.

Just a word of thanks to both you and Ken for being so open.  Hopefully all will gain something from your candidness.

I/O

[Rags II]

Ken is pretty much spot on. It's all about give and take, patience, and a of blending traditions/habits. Take heart that each day starts anew and challenges are to be met one at a time. Don't try to push things too hard. These are the days that will shape your relationship more than anything.

My wife still uses the medicines and health practices that she is used to. Her opinions of American doctors and dentists have changed in a positive way over the years (as well as her some of her opinions about how we do things over here). She has lost some of the phobias that she had like how drinking cold drinks with ice in them will make you sick or that chlorine in tap water is a bad thing.

It will take lots of compromise to preserve harmony.

Things will get much better after her first trip back home and she has time to reflect and compare the two lifestyles. Sounds like it might be time to book her a flight back for this spring/summer and give her something to look forward to.

My wife is also available should your wife want to talk to a fellow Ukrainian in this strange land.

[Michelangelo]

Thanks, Ken and Rags... we will take you up on your offer.

Yes, Vik had a bad day yesterday.  But today she is her old happy self. 

We talked, and got to the bottom of it....

We watched American Idol the other night--the one taped in Seattle--and Vik was appalled at how stupid the people were who thought they could sing but couldn't.  And then she was shocked at the blunt and stinging criticism they took from the judges!

She is taking university classes with all native English speakers.

In class, she decided within herself that she was stupid too-- speaking accented English and that everyone was laughing at her!!!

She was wrong--her English is very, very, good. 

Later, I convinced her of this, and that no one is thinking she does not have good English.

She is fine now.  But these episodes are common for girls when they attempt to adapt to a new life in a strange land.

[jb]

Micheal,

I couldn't agree more, all of the women we know went through periods of depression and tears during the first year or two.  It is an extremely difficult adjustment for them.  Only by being the "perfect" husband can they be helped over the rough spots.  We often talk of the loads of patience required, but I don't think we stress it enough.  If a man has a short fuse on his temper, or speaks without thinking, isn't up for learning how to say the same thing 10 different ways.  Then this may not be the proper course for him.

Regarding the blending of cultures; I'd have to say we are approaching 75-80% American after 5 years, except for language we are just about there.  When she first got here we ate Russian 4-5 times a week, after 5 years we eat Russian once every other month.   My wife continues to eat healthy and shuns fast food at every turn, but our catfish is fried southern style, and our stakes are grilled Texas style.  Our spuds are baked or mashed, hardly ever boiled, green beans are heated straight from the can, very little mayo on the salads,,, so it's pretty much an American kitchen.

We ditched the Russian TV a long time ago, however my wife still has trouble following movie dialog because of so much slang and "funny" accents, so we leave the subtitles on all the time.   It's an easy compromise although I sometime find it a nuisance.  Things that appalled her were obese women going shopping with curlers in their hair and dressed in sweat suits and sneakers.  Things that impressed her were the smiling sales people, the friendliness of perfect strangers, and the orderliness and speed of traffic on the freeways, that part just blew her mind after coming from Moscow

The biggest hurdles were learning to drive, car shopping, (she's a RW, so style was important), learning her way around a new city,  getting her SSN#, making new friends, tolerating the BCIS hassles that made her feel 2nd class, and overcoming boredom while I was out of the house.  I think she's done a remarkable job of taking things in stride, a lesser woman would have folded under the pressure long ago.

[jinx13]

 Michelangelo,

 I can't comment on married life with a Russian woman, for now I am just living with my girlfriend, but I can relate to almost everything you post recently. We have been living together since October, I think you and Vik have been in the U.S. for about the same time.

 Nataly just recently passed her driving test (after failing three times), she began classes this week at the local college, and has the same feelings as Vik, that everyone will laugh at her accent, or that nobody can understand her. She is already terrified because one of her course requires her to get up in front of the class at the end of the semester for a presentation. I know she will be talking about this for months now, and she will lose sleep over it when it gets closer. What really sucks is that she took an ESL class that focused on pronunciation and grammar, but it was canceled because not enough people signed up for it. I bought her a home learning CD program, so I hope it helps.

 We are not married, but as far as blending of cultures, we eat a lot of Russian meals at home, she was afraid she wouldn't be a good cook, but I have been pleasantly surprised, she is an excellent cook! This summer in Ukraine her mother taught her a lot, and I think she actually listened to her this time. We eat out at restaurants quite a bit though, she loves seafood, Salmon is all she would order the first year we dated, now she tries other stuff, but loves the fish!

 It's funny that you mentioned about which language you will speak with your children, Nataly and I had this conversation recently too, and it came to the same conclusion. Russian from her and English from me.

 Question for the married guys with kids. Do your children speak Russian, or just understand it? Do they have full conversations with mom in Russian? I am talking about children born in the U.S. of course.  Also, do your children all have Russian names? So far I have not seen a RW/AM offspring with an American name, but I'm sure there are many. Just curious, thanks.

[Bruno]

Question for the married guys with kids. Do your children speak Russian, or just understand it? Do they have full conversations with mom in Russian? I am talking about children born in the U.S. of course.

Anastassia, daughter of my ex, was born in Russia but she was very young when she have come in Belgium...

She was speaking Dutch and Russian after a few months... after a few year, she was reading, writing and speaking Dutch perfectly... speaking Russian enough good, ready it badly and not able to write it... we have try during the summer to send her in Russia for learn read and write the russian language... unfortunaly, she have never show any interest in it...

I think that a child born in your own country will have the same problem... speaking is one thing who can be teach by parents... but write and read is something other... at 6 year old, child is already busy 8 hours day at school, with sometime schoolwork the evening... this don't give a lot of time to parents for learn them a second language at a perfect level...

So, "speak" and "understand" go together... but read and write can be a other problem...

The more funny is that Anastassia was the only foreign child in her basic school... after a few years, she have teach some base of Russian to the teacher  ... the few Russian that i know was teach to me by her 

PS: "Blending of Cultures" is a wrong term, i think... it is more like when you mix glycerol with nitric/sulfuric acids... the result is something maybe dangerous but so much powerful... to manipulate with care 

[Gator]

I always believed that if both the husband and wife are creative and enter marriage with an open mind, with no preconceived notions that anything American/Russian is better, the two would create the best of both worlds. 

I am conceptualizing something far more than what food is eaten and music played.  It is more than a hybrid world.   It is akin to philosophical synergy, if there is such a term.

In simpler terms, I hope that 2 + 2 = 5.  In many marriages, 2 + 2 = 3.

Perhaps my concept is more dependent upon the individual than the culture, because I have touched on this with some AW.  Yet, because Russians are so different, any individual will be different, some even more than others.  Accordingly, a RW brings to the mix so many new "genes" to combine into a new world.

Maybe this is why I seemingly get along well with RW.  It respects them and makes them feel as if they will help to shape their new world. 

This is theory and not practice, because my practice was limited to just one RW with whom I lived periodically and relatively briefly over three years.  Yet, I could feel it happening.

I doubt that I have explained very well this obscure thought.  And I have not been smoking my son's weed.

[catzenmouse]

And I have not been smoking my son's weed.

And that is why you didn't grasp the bigger picture here... 

Gator,

 You explained it quite well. If we do it right the whole is much greater than the sum of its parts. Very true! And very difficult. Maybe we are just dysfunctional but when we hit this it is amazing, the rest of the time it is just great and wonderful. I guess I need to try harder... or... get into your son's weed...

Ken

[BC]

I always believed that if both the husband and wife are creative and enter marriage with an open mind, with no preconceived notions that anything American/Russian is better, the two would create the best of both worlds. 

A 'best case' scenario that borders on Utopia.  If it was that easy to do we'd miss out on a lot of fun!  With time though we are all capable of change.  Time, will, resources and energy to 'pull through' at all cost and finally the patience of Job awaiting tangible results are a few requirements involved. Remember that the changes involved are not limited to the woman.. you will have to change as well - that's guaranteed!

In a world full of folks looking for instant gratification that couldn't spot 'SCAM' written on the marriage certificate it's a wonder that a few multi-culti relationships overcome the hardships involved and flourish..  maybe not if one accepts maxims like 'trash in - trash out'.

Re kids and languages, the earlier they are exposed to using multiple languages the better off they will be in the future. The primary language in our house is Russian followed by English followed by Italian and the kids love to watch German cartoons..  Don't worry about the kids - they will do just fine if the parents can somehow keep their act together.

[KenC]

Our situation was much the same as many of you described here with the depression, sadness and resistance to the American ways.  Everything here sucked and everything was great back in Russia in the beginning.  Lena was reluctant to go back to Russia for her first visit due to paranoia over the Advanced Parole not allowing her back.  She didn't go back for a long time.  This prolonged her fond memories of Russia and maybe even embellished them a bit.  Every trip home since that time, she has come back home (to America) thinking a little less of the Motherland and appreciating her life in America more.  She was in Russia during the last holiday season and had a huge debate on America with all her Russian relatives.  Surprisingly enough the girl that hated everything here was now debating in favor of America.  She has come to realise that thing are far from perfect here, but this country is doing a lot of things right.  I consider that about 180 degree turn around in 7 years.

The blending part in our family is a little different from most here as I am Russian too.  I grew up eating caviar, blini and smoked fish. I even forced my In Laws to eat my family's style of blini on their last visit!  (They liked it, but it was different than they were used to.)  So when Lena makes up a batch of cutlets or such, it is like old homeweek for me and the memories of my Babushka dance in my head.  She finally made kasha to my families recipe just this week and had to admit it was superior to her family's recipe.

We have Russian TV and Lena tapes her Brazilian soaps dubbed in Russian (a guilty pleasure) and enjoys the news and variety shows.  She also has her list of favorite American TV shows and usually watches Russian TV after I have gone to bed.

Lena has gone through 2 culture changes in the 8 1/2 years if being here.  Once was to America in general and then again to California when we relocated here.  In some ways she has accepted the Californian ways better than me.  She has driven to every nook and cranny in the area and is a first class tour guide when we have out of town guests.  She has ventured up to Orange County to shop a particular mall there and last week took her friend (a native of San Diego) to Beverly Hills and Santa Monica because her friend had never been.

Lena has gone through all the awkwardness at school that comes from being a foreigner.  We still keep tapes of her speeches from an early class she had.  When attending her current university, she chooses to dress down in order not to stand out among her fellow students.

We live as Americans, she can fly under the radar as an American, but she will always be a Russian in her soul.
KenC

[I/O]

We live as Americans, she can fly under the radar as an American, but she will always be a Russian in her soul. KenC

And that, I think summarises exactly why we choose to find a Russian women....!!!

I/O

[TexasBoar]

he has ventured up to Orange County to shop a particular mall there

South Coast Plaza? 

Ouch! 

~Boar

[Louie]

That's better that Fashion Island I feel poor just driving around that place, double ouch!!!

[ScottinCrimea]

My RW as well as other friends here have opened my eyes to a different way of thinking about the world and about life in general.  I think it is this blending of Russian and American thought that everyone is talking about.  No culture is better or worse, just different, and if you embrace those differences you'll have the blend that you seek.  Stubborn insistence that "My blinii are better than your blinii" does not a happy marriage make.

[Jet]

I think that a child born in your own country will have the same problem... speaking is one thing who can be teach by parents... but write and read is something other... at 6 year old, child is already busy 8 hours day at school, with sometime schoolwork the evening... this don't give a lot of time to parents for learn them a second language at a perfect level...

So, "speak" and "understand" go together... but read and write can be a other problem...

Even with as busy as our lives are (and they are!) Lil has made it a priority to continue Kolya's Russian language studies. 5 nites a week he does his English homework after school and Russian homework after dinner. Reading and writing practice is frustrating, but she pushes him to continue. Speaking, as others have suggested is a mix primarily composed of Russian w/ her and English w/ me, but I can ask him things in Russian and he'll answer in English so I have no doubt he'll be truly bilingual by the time he's grown.

Some other interesting conversations have surfaced recently regarding "cultural differences" as Lil was studying for her Professional Educators Exam, where she noted VAST differences in the areas for pedagogical and child psychology between US and former Soviet programs. She was having a bit of difficulty wrapping her mind around some of the areas of theory that are directly contradictory to what she was taught in Russia 

[KenC]

TB,
Yeah, that be the one.
Louie,
I don't think I even want to know about "Fashion Island Mall" and I certainly don't need Lena to know either!  She will find it in due time, I am sure.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Some other interesting conversations have surfaced recently regarding "cultural differences" as Lil was studying for her Professional Educators Exam, where she noted VAST differences in the areas for pedagogical and child psychology between US and former Soviet programs. She was having a bit of difficulty wrapping her mind around some of the areas of theory that are directly contradictory to what she was taught in Russia 

I hate to say this but I think when it comes to the differences of areas for pedagogical and child psychology I have a feeling they have it more right than we do.