Blending of Cultures in Married Life

[Jet]

Our situation was much the same as many of you described here with the depression, sadness and resistance to the American ways.  Everything here sucked and everything was great back in Russia in the beginning. 
  Every trip home since that time, she has come back home (to America) thinking a little less of the Motherland and appreciating her life in America more. 
We live as Americans, she can fly under the radar as an American, but she will always be a Russian in her soul.
KenC

Lil has made 6 trips back to Russia since she arrived in 2003. This past New Year something interesting happened, she finally saw Russia through the eyes of a visitor, not through the eyes of someone "returning home". She had many anecdotes about situations where she saw other Russians doing ordinary everyday things that she used to do when she lived there, but could not imagine herself returning to those ways of life. Ex: watching ladies fishing through the half rotten apple bin at the market hoping to find ONE reasonably decent apple, whilst thinking about rows and rows of perfectly polished, unbruised, cheap, fruit at our local supermarket. She proclaimed the she has indeed become a "spoiled American" 

[KenC]

Jet,
Isn't it funny how on that "one" particular trip back to the homeland there is like a light bulb above their head that suddenly turns on? :brightidea:
KenC

[Louie]

Ken, Fashion Island is off of PCH in Newport Beach, I tell ya, I don't really like going it that place, sometimes It feels like the can smell how poor you are, I was in one store I think it was Nordstrom, they have a piano player playing on a grand, I saw dresses of the rack for $4000 to $8000, can you believe that OFF THE RACK!!! me and my wife at the time went into this shoe store, the cheapest pair was around $200, the sales person wouldn't even wait on us, I was so mad I wanted to punch that (insert derogatory word for homosexual) right in the mouth, as we left Nordstrom, holding several bags, including new shoes, we walked past his store, I held up all the bags and gave him a gesture that he was number one in my book. (Sorry for going off topic)

[ScottinCrimea]

Hey, try Rodeo Drive sometime!

[Michelangelo]

I hate to say this but I think when it comes to the differences of areas for pedagogical and child psychology I have a feeling they have it more right than we do.

TG: I think you missed two key words-- former soviet.  i.e.~ "where she noted VAST differences in the areas for pedagogical and child psychology between US and former soviet programs. "

That educational program lost the cold war, and disregarded the best interests of children in the interest of the state.

Since the fall of the soviet empire, history books have been rewritten in most of the FSU countries to show history in a more accurate light, and now the people know the horrors of Stalin.

[Turboguy]

Michaelangelo,  I think I did not explain myself well in my comment.   I was not referring to life in general under the Soviet Union.  I agree that there were far too many bad and even evil things that occurred.  That there were too few freedoms and the country was run for the benefit of the government not the people.

When I talked about the pedagogical aspect, I was referring to the school system in general which I believe is doing a better job of teaching than their equivalents in America.  When I see cashiers that can not make change for a dollar without a computer telling them the answer and so many young adults that are being cranked out with so little knowledge and so few basic skills it worries me.

When I talked about the child psychology aspect I was referring to the psychology of Russian children in general compared to American ones.  So many of the Russian children I see have better behavior, more focused goals, better manners.  They seem calmer and far more like the image we have of what children should be like.  Personally I think the video games, rap music and lack of an authority figure in both the home and the schools have taken a toll.   

[Bruno]

So many of the Russian children I see have better behavior, more focused goals, better manners.  They seem calmer and far more like the image we have of what children should be like.

Don't be so sure... i have know my share of problem with Anastassia... by example, she was cheating at school, trying to be the first of the class... it have take me a lot of time for learn her that you become the first by work and not cheating... that work for be the first is the important thing and not the fact to be the first...

At a other level, have you already try to take a bus near a open market in Russia ? Everybody push the other for try be the first in the bus...

Russia was a jungle and the law of the more strong is apply everyday... children who was orphan, invalid, etc... was put in institution who was similar to a Goulag...

Turbo, you cannot know how really have life the majority of the populationin FSU by visiting tourist center... take a old bus, visit the little village ( don't forget your plastic shoes in case of rain )... visit a place for orphan... take a look at the old babuska who seek paper and glass in your trashcan when the night fall... listen of story from little village who was without electricity during some days because someone have steal the electric cable...

Yes, Russia have Golden side but don't be blinder by it... all is not pink and good...

A lot of people complain in our western world about everything but never they will know so bad situation that some Russian have know... education was based on competition... if a child wish to reach the top, any method is valid, only the goal count... it was a survival method...

I think that the mentality of Russian is more like these of the American pioneer... these people who have suffert and not always use the ethics method for reach the survival goal... same your American young ganster who listen rap music will have never survive in Russia during the soviet time, they are to sweet and pussies!!!

[Michelangelo]

I hear a lot of crap about how bad education is in America, and it's just that....crap.   People hear it over and over and then start repeating it.

Let's look at results and what American education has achieved....for the past 100 years we have produced the great inventions and the great advancements in science. Our public schools educate everyone, and not just the elite.  These students go from that system into a world class system of higher education.  Students from around the world come to study here.

Our medical research and medical practice is second to none. People from around the world come here to be treated.

And what about those great inventors and scientist and doctors?  As children, they were taught by American teachers-the finest teachers in the world.

As I pointed out and as Bruno pointed out, the old soviet system punished the weak and rewarded the top students. In the end, it led to their demise.

[Michelangelo]

Vik and I had an interesting Saturday.  After sleeping in, we made our way to Arlington, Texas, and the Russian store and cafe there.  Vik was so excited to find her favorite Russian staples there, including sweet cheese and buckwheat.  We also bought some Russian gifts for friends.  Then we had a russian meal in the cafe there.

Vik still has waves of culture shock; just this morning she said she felt like Alice in Lewis Carrol's "Through the Looking Glass."  But all in all, we are making good progress in blending our lives and cultures together.

Tomorrow, we'll have friends over for the football games.   The guy is my age and his russian wife is Vik's age; they have been married 2 years. BTW- he knew nothing about RWD, and I suspect few american men married to russian girls do.  We'll have pizza, beer, and pancakes (more like crepes, really).

[Jet]

I hear a lot of crap about how bad education is in America, and it's just that....crap.   People hear it over and over and then start repeating it.

No need to get all defensive Michelangelo! My point was that from a very young age Americans and Russians are shown how to think and learn differently. This is one of those "genuine" cultural differences. Criticism/comparison of educational systems is not really relevant to the topic, but given the choice I'd tend to put a bit more stock in my wife's assessment than yours, simply based on the fact that she has experienced BOTH systems as a student as well as a member of the faculty. (take heart though, she doesn't view the Russian system with rose colored glasses either.)

[jb]

I hear a lot of crap about how bad education is in America, and it's just that....crap.   People hear it over and over and then start repeating it.

When was the last time you observed a 6th grade math class in a barrio middle school?

[Michelangelo]

No problem, I understand.  I was responding to Turbo, and not to your post. Your wife certainly is entitled to speak from her view, and experience.

[Michelangelo]

My last response was to Jet.

JB-  been there, done that.  I still say that our system works and the old soviet and chinese systems can't compare in our acomplishments...

[ScottinCrimea]

     If I were to compare the two educational systems, I would say that the Russian/Ukrainian primary schools are superior to ours but that our Universities are superior to theirs.  Ukraine has a literacy rate of over 99%, much higher than iin the US.  If my wife and I were to have a child, I would send them through the equivalent of high school here and then have them attend a Univeristy in the US.  They would have the best of both worlds.  Students from here and indeed from most countries who attend school in the US as a foreign exchange student don't get credit for that year because it is felt that the education is inferior, and most foreign exchange students comment on how easy school is in the US.
     Another thing I have noticed is that here they still emphasize the basics and don't get off onto so many "self esteem" and other social programs such as how to correctly put on a condom, that water down the teaching time in the US.  Our daughter has classes in Russian, Ukrainian, English, Algebra, History, Geography, Politics, Biochemistry, Literature, etc.  These kids know more about what's happening in the world than any American teen will probably ever know.

[Bruno]

Congrats, Scott- your culture shock from living in Ukraine is over.  Now you are thinking like a UW~everything is better in Ukraine!  LOL

First, my comments about education were about the soviet days, and a comparison to the USA and how our system produced learners who eventually won the cold war.

Michael, it is difficult to compare one side to the other one, specialy at the level of education... a little like to compare apple to citrus...

From my own experience ( who is not the universal knowledge )... Russian are better at the theoric level... they know better the base that us... BUT they have a lot of problem to apply these theory to the usual life...

By example, i see it at the university hospital of Gent... a lot of FSU people work there and make some research... they find thing but we don't see the result.... it is Belgium scientist who use the resarch resultof FSU people to apply it to usual life...

In some way, FSU education is perfect for research... but our local engineer are needed for use the result of these research to normal life... no one system is bad... a symbiose of both system give the best result...

How to explain therse difference ? Russian have good professor... but russian school have problem with modern material ( need a lot of money )... So you need a Russian for have the idea, and a American for use it in the usual life...

No one sytem is better... they are complenent from each other...

[Bruno]

Schools are another case in point--when I speak in US schools, and schools in Germany and Italy and France, it's common for young children to sit on the floor and listen to me.

You are lucky that you was not one of my teacher... i have never allow a teacher to rest until i have understandt... sometime, i was send to the "provisseur" because i ask to much time "Why?"... Theory is always interesting but i need to understand why... and very few of western professor are able to explain why !!!

[Michelangelo]

Likewise, practice that is done without understanding theory is like...well....rote learning. 

[SANDRO43]

Theory is always interesting but i need to understand why... and very few of western professor are able to explain why !!!

... or explain it by bringing it down to the students' level of understanding/appreciation.

I still remember a cold winter morning when our chemical-physics prof started to explain the state diagram of water, filling up the blackboard with the diagram itself and a number of differential equations. When he noticed most of the class was nodding off, he had the inspiration of saying : "Boys, did you notice how the interior of your car's windshield fogs up immediately after you get inside, these days ?". At that, everybody woke up, and he restarted his explanation from this new approach .

And I still remember the basics of it today, some 45 years later .

[ScottinCrimea]

Why have most of the new discoveries and inventions come from the US?  I don't think it's the education system.  There are a variety of reasons.  Under the soviet system, there was no advantage to thinking outside the box.  You worked within the system because anything else only caused you problems.  I find they still struggle with this. Another reason you don't see many Russian inventions is because of the Stalinist purges of the scientists and intellectuals.  They killed off an entire generation of their greatest thinkers.  In Asia, young people are taught rote memorization of facts and "what if" type of thinking is discouraged.  The Japanese don't invent anything new, they take what has already been invented and make it better.  In Medical school oriental students were at the top during the first two years when it is all lectures and book study, but for the most part they feel sharply during the second two years and especially during residency when they had to take into account all of the variables related to each patient.  I remember seeing students trying to copy word for word the sample of the admitting orders for each disease found in the textbook onto the charts of each patient with that disease.
     Many foreignors come to the US to pursue their research because there is more open-mindedness and there is, quite frankly, more money.  Just look at the greatest scientists in the US over the past 80 years and you will see a heck of a lot of foreign surnames and people who received their educations outside the US.  The majority of those making "American" inventions aren't American.

[I/O]

The Japanese don't invent anything new, they take what has already been invented and make it better. 

This is by and large exactly correct.  I've been saying the same thing for the last 20 years.  They copy the Germans, or the Brits or the Americans and make it cheaper and sometimes better.

The majority of those making "American" inventions aren't American.

This one makes me smile a little bit.  What is an American?


I/O

[catzenmouse]

This one makes me smile a little bit.  What is an American?

Basically it is a "mutt" or a "mongrel" (a mix of many breeds with no (or little) clear lineage line). Unless, of course, you are speaking about those people who lived here 400+ years ago before the hordes of Europeans invaded.

Ken (who is a mixture of mongrel and show dog  )

[I/O]

Basically it is a "mutt" or a "mongrel" (a mix of many breeds with no (or little) clear lineage line). Unless, of course, you are speaking about those people who lived here 400+ years ago before the hordes of Europeans invaded.
Ken

Yes, that was about the point I was making.  So I guess, being bred and born in a country represented by 143 nationalities (Officially) that makes us just a touch similar.

Nevertheless, I suppose it is an endless debate, but at what stage is someone considered American or Australian or whatever.  By birthrite? Or by some measured length of time in the country?  I guess I am questioning Scott's rationale in commenting that many "American" inventions are non American in design, and yet the people are living in America. 

Maybe this is just semantics, but as far as I am concerned, regardless of where someone was educated, if they are in a given location when they develop something, that location has a very large influence, if not the major influence on facilitating and the design of the item in question. A location always has more influence than simply finacial facilitation.

I can't comment on the USA education system, but I can on ours and frankly I'd rather not because it is certainly in need of reform, but regarding the Russian systems, I have high regard for some aspects of it, for example geography knowledge of children is generally far better than western standards and so on.  The intensity of learning in Russian schools and Universities is admirable by any standard, but the content is often not.  Much of the content is out dated and irrelevant in the modern world.  Yes Russia has some world class institutions, but the majority are offering studies more relevant to Pre-Gorby days.

I have spoken to a number of Russians who feel somewhat insulted by the fact their qualifications are not regarded in the west and I feel for them, but the reality is for many of them, their skills have simply been out dated.

I/O

[catzenmouse]

I see education being more regional in quality than by counry. In the FSU the biggest cities have the most money and the best situations for education. In a small city in NorthEastern Russia they do not have the resources to compete so they do what they can. Here in the U.S. the schools reflect the same situation for the most part. Affluent subburbs have the most money to spend on schools. Inner city areas and extreme rural areas simply don't have the resources to bring to the table so the quality of education suffers.

<SoapBox On>
For me a program like "No Child Left Behind" is simply a joke for the children of this country. If there was genuine concern in Washington (and this is not partisan as it has been going on for decades) then they would waste a lot less on the "pork barrel" stuff to keep them in office and actually look at funding the schools to the point where they were able to provide the best eduation possible for all the children and not just the chosen few.
<SoapBox Off>

Ken

[Michelangelo]

I agree, Catzehmouse.  Education was better in the US before this legislation, and when local control allowed parents to elect school board members who who mandate schools that would deliver what the local people thought important in education.  NCLB gave lots of money to big publishers and test companies, money that was taken from local communities and sent to Washington.  Better to leave the money in the community.  But if anyone wants to argue this, can you start a new stand and allow this strand to stay on topic?

Now, if you do want to continue to discuss education but stay on topic, how about this for the married guys-- How well do FSU children adapt to schools in America?  Or other countries?

[Michelangelo]

Now that winter has come to Texas, we are battling another obstacle--control of the thermostat!

Now, this may be just the difference in metabolism, but I suspect it is more.

We have all electric heat in the house, which is new to Vik. 

So, when she gets hot, she TURNS the switch off, instead of adjusting the setting.  And when she is cold, she turns it on and up to 100 or so!

Same thing in the car; a real see-saw from hot to cold.

Is this just us, or do other guys see their FSU girls having problems with thermostats and not knowing how to adjust them, and not just turn them off?