Financial issues.

[TheArrow]

Guys, you all were discussing "the age difference". But none had an idea of another Mathematics - I am an accountant and I got used to operate with digits. Well....Let's guess the situation:

"Let us consider the average working man married to a woman who does not work (I mean, the first year you are married Russian woman and she is having her adaptational period) trying to live the average life:

Monthly income $3,333 ($40,000 per year)

Monthly expenses $2,886  ($221 for social security taxes, $255 for federal income taxes, $67 for state income taxes, $500 for hospitalization insurance, $1,168 for the mortgage note on his home, $350 for the note on his automobile, $100 for his automobile insurance, $50 for homeowners insurance, $125 for electricity, $50 for basic telephone services, $50 for cable television.)   

This leaves $397 for food, gasoline, clothing, medical expenses, etc.  The cost of food is about $120 per month per person, and the cost of gasoline for a 20 minute commute to work is about $80 per month. So a family of two people would have only $77 remaining each month, which is not enough. (Even with insurance, one visit to a doctor could cost this much after buying some medicine.) This also assumes that he has no credit debt and no life insurance.  The result is that on this income the family must give up some things that the average family would have:  choose a smaller house, 15% elect not to have health insurance, some drive only old cars, etc."

Wating for your comments, guys.

[philb]

Are you asking what should be given up to save money?  Or, do you just want to know if the situation you describe is the norm?

I have a few thoughts.  I doubt if very many guys are attempting to do this on$40,000 a year (this is only my opinion).  From my experience some of your numbers are a bit high.  I pay about 1/3 of this for health insurance, my mortgage is 1/2,  I have no car payment.  All of these things will vary with the individual of course.

Another thing to consider is the area of the country in which a person lives.  Your scenario is probably pretty accurate for NYC, California, and certain other parts of the US.  Alternatively, if you live iin portions of the southern US or Midwest your $40,000 would go much further. 

[Journeyman]

Arrow,

Agreed.  From what I have seen over the years, the most sensible minimum income estimates for supporting any non-working wife in a modest lifestyle in "middle America" is about $50K to $55K.  Minimum.  I think that is about equal to the current median "household" income in America -- where there is likely to be 2 incomes (from both the husband and wife).

But, many Russian wives will, in fact, never work (even if they want to do so).  So, it is incumbent upon the AM to plan on collecting this much income himself.  If the median income for an adult male in the US is still about $36,000 (the last time I checked), then that typical man might need to pick up an additional job.  Otherwise, he will need an above average income.  Throw in an annual trip back to the FSU, and a few other indulgences, and you can get over $60,000 real quick.  More in NYC and other high cost of living cities.


Again, even though a future wife from the FSU might want to work, don't plan on it.  Instead, plan on a pregnancy, or for other contingencies.  A man has to plan on carrying the entire economic load himself.  Forever.

Journeyman

[TheArrow]

Thanks, guys. I agree, all depends on area you are living in. $36000/year - is this enough for 2 adult people?! Isn't this a kind of cheat when men knows that this sum is too small for 2 adult people but he looks for Russian wife?

Tell me, please. Additional job is good but your wife will say - you spend a lot of time at work and she doesn't see you at home and etc....

Just for some information - a good lipstick costs about $10 + shampoo + ......

So, is $77 enough? I am citing that example I posted here.

If you gonna marry Russian woman - what plans would you have? And do you think, all Russian women know the real information about average income in the States??

Here is the distribution of family income in the USA:

Less than     $25,000 per year  -- 20.3%

$  25,000 -   $50,000 per year  -- 27.7%

$  50,000 -   $75,000 per year  -- 21.8%

$  75,000 - $100,000 per year  -- 13.1%

$100,000 - $200,000 per year  -- 14.2%

$ 200,000  or  more   per year  --  2.9%

 

[philb]

Is it possible to support a family of 2 on $36,000 a year.  It is possible, but would not be easy particularly when you consider the associated costs of bringing a woman here from another country.  I would not want to have to live that way.

$77.00 a month for incidental expenses?  I am not sure.  Maybe you could get a way with this for a couple of months.  I guess I used to live this way when I was young and just starting out.  But houses and cars will need repairs, shoes and clothes wear out.  $77.00 a month isn't enough.  No $10.00 lipstick or expensive shampoo.  She would have to wash her hair in 0.99 cents a bottle sauve.  Maybe that is why I am losing my hair.

The woman I am seeing now would want to work and would be very employable here.  But, fortunately I make enough money so that this would not be a necessity.  I think that the added pressure of a woman moving here knowing that she would have to find a job as soon as possible and that their financial position was so precarious would cause a lot of additional stress in the relationship.

[Journeyman]

Arrow,

I agree that an additional job isn't a good solution.  However, it is a challenge for many workers in America to get an above average income (individually) without working much more than 40 hours per week.  If you are a young lawyer, or a junior executive, or are just trying to climb the corporate ladder, you've often got to plan on working 55+ hour weeks until about age 50, or later.  Yes, there are exceptions, but it is not the rule.  Overpaid workers are readily cut during times of retrenchment.  Overtime is more and more a standard thing at work, whether you are an hourly or salaried employee (except those in government jobs).  Statistically, Americans work more hours each week than workers in any other country.  That is in addition to needing 2 incomes to support a household since 1970.

In general, I think that many RW do not understand the demands of the American workplace now on its workers.  Frankly, it seems quite possible that many RW will live in a below average lifestyle if they marry a WM with an average income.  She cannot contibute much to the family's income (typically), and he might or might not be able to have a second job -- for various reasons.  Yes, this kind of financial stress could also account for the high failure rate in these marriages, just as financial strain is the leading cause for all divorces.

Lots of things to think about.
Journeyman

[TheArrow]

The woman I am seeing now would want to work and would be very employable here.

If a woman decides to live where you are living - she must be well-educated, must know English pretty well in order to find a good job. But the adaptational period is needed for her anyway, and you  know about this fact. 1 year or even more...

What, a 0.99 cents bottle sauve - oh, nooooooo, never..... LOL

[TheArrow]

Lots of things to think about.
Journeyman

Yeah.... lots of things. So both, WM and RW must specify their criterias of search then

As Scarlett O'Hara said - I will think 'bout this......tomorrow.

[philb]

She is very educated and speaks fluent English.  In spite of this, I agree that even she would need a period of time to adapt.  Like I said, if she were to move here she would not be under any financial pressure to work. 

I spelled it wrong. It should be suave not sauve.  It is cheap shampoo

[TheArrow]

Like I said, if she were to move here she would not be under any financial pressure to work.

Glad, you have already met a well-educated Russian lady (I am saying this according to your words - "The woman I am seeing now would want to work and would be very employable here").

I think, if Russian woman can find a job after her adaptational period - this would be good coz she will have the opportunity to know more about American society, customs and traditions..... Simply put - kinda good courses for free but THEY will pay her coz she works for THEM.

Cheap 0.99 cents shampoo - oh, nooooo.... anyway.

[philb]

Aren't all Russian ladies well educated?

[TheArrow]

Aren't all Russian ladies well educated?

Dunno, sorry . But all my female friends are well-educated. But if you've met your Miss Right - I am glad anyway

[BC]

Arrow,

Yes it all adds up real quick.. ending up with 'honey.. your telephone calls are driving us in debt' and 'no, we can't go to the mall.. not even to look'

Look for guys that have at least paid off their house (and thus have some financial latitude for major contingencies and don't have a massive house payment on top of the other payments).. unfortunately this knocks most younger guys out.

I believe underestimated costs lead to a lot of RW/AM failures. Economic stress is a cause or major contributing factor in lot of divorces even with hometown women/men.. don't know any statistics but might help explain a higher RW/AM failure rate in comparison.

The 'deep end' of the pool is indeed quite risky without a good lifevest considering it's not easy to get out once you jump in. Sure you can tread water but not indefinitely especially trying to keep someone else afloat.. With one good vest you can both relax a bit and begin to enjoy life together.

(repost from other thread)

Sure many women work in RU, but this does not necessarily mean they want to work elsewhere. Even still count on a couple of years without work to adapt/requalify etc.

[TheArrow]

Thanks, BC. I think, this topic will be very usefull for those women who are looking for a husband from abroad.

Also, thanks for all guys, too.

[jb]

Well,,,, I can't add much to this except to say that the days of getting by on a $10 per hour wage are over.  Certainly a minimum wage guy is out of the loop here.  Hell~!,,, with gas prices over $2.00 per gallon, it takes the better part of a $10/hr guy's net pay for one day just to fill his gas tank so he can come to work the rest of the week.  No doubt those poverty level numbers will soon have to be revised upwards.

Just a guess, and I'm sure there will be disagreement, but I'm thinking a man should have a minimum of $55-60K annual salary, with 12-15K in the bank, before setting himself up for the selection process of letting a FSU woman look him over.

[BC]

jb,

yeah hear ya.. and try almost 6 bucks a gallon for guys over here..  and double your figures for cash in the bank for getting her 'home', settled in and for contingencies.

[Bruno]

Hello Arrow,

seem that your example is only good for US man and woman who wish marry US citizen... i was ready to expose my case, in Belgium, Europa ... here, the situation is really different at the financial level... but i don't wish disturb your topic... only, don't forget that US and Russia are not all the world

[TheArrow]

Hello Arrow,

seem that your example is only good for US man and woman who wish marry US citizen... i was ready to expose my case, in Belgium, Europa ... here, the situation is really different at the financial level... but i don't wish disturb your topic... only, don't forget that US and Russia are not all the world

When I saw you posted something in this thread - I dashed to read your "long opus" but what I see - just a few lines. Well..........This thread is for all members from all countries. I posted the example with the States coz I have a few friends there.

Post your information about finances in Belgium, Europe. Women from many countries read this forum and your information would be useful for them.

[Photo Guy]

Natalya,
There is an extreme range of expenses for single AM and families here. I know of guys with the same monthly income, who have much more debt than myself, because they choose to get, for example, a second mortgage - a second loan on their house. I have a small 2-bedroom condo in Phoenix, which is $650 per month, plus a home-owner's fee of $150 per month. I saved my money and bought my sister's '97 Infinity I30 for cash, so no car payment per month. $80 car insurance. My average electric bill (air conditioning here in the desert) is about $90. Food: 200 to $300. Health Insurance $150. Gasoline $120. I know of co-workers who decide to have a nice new car and a car payment, or choose to have a bigger house, or want the cash from a second mortgage, etc. The point is, it varies greatly, depending on the individual's choices. My sister rarely dines out. Instead she would rather put the money into her retirement account. She keeps it hot in her house to save money on electric air conditioning, and then uses that saved money for her yearly ski vacation, or clothes for her children.   Doug

[Photo Guy]

Yeah.... lots of things. So both, WM and RW must specify their criterias of search then
As Scarlett O'Hara said - I will think 'bout this......tomorrow.

Yes. And love will conquer all.     Doug

[Leslie]

Natalya,

The situation in UK is as follows:-

Median after tax family income 21,000 GBP (nearly $40,000).

Indirect taxes in UK are very much higher than US 17.5% sales tax (VAT) on virtually everything except uncooked food.  Gasoline 3X as expensive as USA.  Alcohol and tobacco very expensive - up to 20x as expensive as in Ukraine! I have lived over 10 years in USA and in terms of spending power 1 dollar = 1 gbp.  However the social benifits in UK are high so cost of livin  is not directly comparable.  The new immigration rules for UK are listed here

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/laws___policy/immigration_rules/part_8/part_9.html

Essentially if you are on median income or less you will NOT qualify for a spouse / fiance visa.  OK if you own your home outright  and your fiance has no dependents then you will qualify but the average house price is now 160,000 gbp (close to $350,000) and is double that in London.....

As an immigrant you have no recourse to public funds.  It is up to your sponser (future husband) to PROVE that he has sufficient capital and income  so that you will never be a burden on public funds.  This has become an issue of late. You do need an above average income to sponser a spouse/fiance visa.  It is impossible to give hard rules but a net income of of 3000 gbp per month, owning your own home (with a reasonable mortgage payment - say less than 500 pm), 15,000 in savings and investments and  you will be OK.  Much less than this and it gets uncertain.  If your intended husband has claimed any state benifits in the last 2 years - basically forget it....

My wife is entitled to free health care but is treated as a foriegner for University education.  She is a musician but cannot teach here as her certificates are worthless.  It will take 2 years of higher education to get UK teaching qualifications.  This will have to wait until she is a UK citizen (tution fees for foriegners are very high).  So apart from very irregular session musician work my wife has had to work minimum wage jobs (5 per hour). 

There is an old saying

"An immigrants first job is the worst job and often the hardest to get"

Natalya you mighr be a qualified accountant in Russia but you would struggle to find a clerks job an accounting department in UK.  Retraining back to that level will take maybe 5 years of hard expensive study.  Many professional Russians to do relize this situation in UK they think they can come here and work at the same level for 95% of people this is simply not true.

Leslie & Natasha

 

 

 

[Elen]

Many professional Russians to do relize this situation in UK they think they can come here and work at the same level for 95% of people this is simply not true.

We do aware about THAT:?

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[Bruno]

Post your information about finances in Belgium, Europe. Women from many countries read this forum and your information would be useful for them.

I go only expose my case, here in Belgium... for Europa, the general conclusion will be the same but the detail very different since some expense are more cheap in one country but some other are more high...

First, about my income : 1111.47 euro by month netto ( netto mean that social tax, federal tax, ... are already removed... it is what i have in hand )... up this, i received each month food check of 3 euro for each 7u36 of work... it is around 63 euro... now, a total of 1174.47 euro...

If i am married and the woman don't work, the amount rise around 1400 euro month and if she work, lower around 1000 euro month ( change of tax )...

If children are present, it is around 100 euro lower tax by child and a special income for child around 150 euro month for the first one, the second have these basic income * 1.5, and for the next one, *2 ... from 3 child, you have reduction on railroad, free bus, lean money at state for build home without interest, reduction phone, ... the politic of our country is to help people with a lot of child... our population lower each year...

Now, my expense... i hire a bungalow ( 2 sleepkamer, one living, one kitchen, one badkamer, 2 little storage place, air conditioning, a garden ) for 250 euro month all in ( electricity and water ) ...

Why not buy a house ?... too much expensive... around 50% of your income each month during 20 year for own house + propriety tax each year... and when i will die, the child need pay around 35% taxe on the value of home for receive it... i hire and spare money on a special account for when the child will be adult... i am young and wish enjoy life now... and the same for child... it is only a personal choice...

We have too a system of social appartment and house owned by state... the hire price is in function of your income... the hire is maximum 25% of your income all in... it is not far from the previous communist system... i have one before but i have allow my ex-wife to stay in because of the child...

For the medical expense, a state insurance of 50 euro year is enough for a pay-back of expense around 80% for all familly who life with me... but i use too a special insurance pay by my boss who allow a 100% payback for all familly who life with me...

Now, about food, it is not easy... you have a lot of choice for the same product... since special tax on non-ecological product, it is more expensive to buy product with beautifull box... but usually, for 3, i have enough with 250 euro month...

For school, it was not a problem, it is free but because i have choose a private school for the child, the expense was around 25 euro month... for university, it is around 2500 euro year but for big family, 3 of more child, it is 250 euro year... you child can be sponsored by stat, they pay all... but they stop the support if the child miss one year of university...

About transport, i use bus, tram, trolley... we have enough and several bus, tram, trolley... az little like in russia... only from 1 year ago, we have bus in the night too... it is a choice of gouverment for reduce incident with car when people go to cafe late and drink to much... use the bus in place of the car... for children below 18 yo and old people up 65 yo, it is free... for other, it is around 150 euro year for a multipass : bus, tram, metro, trolley, railroad... with these pass, you can receive a reduction ( 30% ) for taxi too... you can use the phonebuss too with these pass for free... you phone to the compagny the day before, say the place and time of departure, and the place of arrival... the day after, they are waiting before your own door... this system work only in region where you have not enough regular bus ( a stop at 300 meter of home or more of 30 minute between bus in day time, 2 hours between 24h00 and 06.00 )

Other expense, clothes... here, i can tank you my ex-russian wife... before, i buy cheap clothes but after some month, all was good for trashbin... she have explain me that quality was not really expensive... quality shoes or clothes are more expensive when you buy it... but they are more confortable, and more strong, you can keep it more long... now, i apply this method for shoes and costume... for body clothes, i stay with cheap because i renew it often... by example , sok and slip are cleanig only a few time and changed by new... maximum one month...

Almost forget, one very big expense... spare 150 euro each month for the year holliday in Russia... trip and stay during one month for three... Guys, don't forget this, your wife wish visit one time year his family... with you and if you have, the child... this is a recurent expense, each year, and it is not a little one... if you cannot affort it, don't marry a foreign woman...

And you have always some other little expense, like sauna each month, museum, dance school saturday morning for child, special holliday for the child ( sea, childrenfarm, attraction park, forest camp, ... )

With my low income, i was able to have a normal life with a wife and a child... and the wife have work only 2 days in 5 year...

Arrow, I hope that these post is not too much long and boring for you. It can be more long because our income, tax and expense are linket to the familial status and several other parameter... but i think that it is enough for here... my future wife Galina know already all detail about Belgium... several time, she have reply me that she know what i have explain, that before, it was almost the same system in russia ... Oooops ... Ukraine... Yep, Europe are socialist country ( but not communist )...

[BC]

The equation is easy..

Take the salary your last wife or gf was making and add this  figure to your current expenses.  If your current disposable income does not cover the entire amount or leaves little left over forget it.

Add 20% of ex salary for each additonal sibling your RW will bring, or you plan to have together.

I make 3000
expenses 1500
ex made 2000
RW has 1 child (400)

900 is 'missing'.. forget it.. won't work.

This assumes your ex was living together with you and shared total household expenses.

Don't forget you also want to be able to save a bit of money for trips back home etc..

[Admin]

Guys, you all were discussing "the age difference". But none had an idea of another Mathematics - I am an accountant and I got used to operate with digits. Well....Let's guess the situation:

"Let us consider the average working man married to a woman who does not work (I mean,Âthe first year you are married Russian woman and she is having her adaptational period)Âtrying to live the average life:

Monthly income $3,333 ($40,000 per year)

Monthly expenses $2,886Â ($221 for social security taxes, $255 for federal income taxes, $67 for state income taxes, $500 for hospitalization insurance, $1,168 for the mortgage note on his home, $350 for the note on his automobile, $100 for his automobile insurance, $50 for homeowners insurance, $125 for electricity, $50 for basic telephone services, $50 for cable television.)ÂÂÂ

This leaves $397 for food, gasoline, clothing, medical expenses, etc. The cost of food is about $120 per month per person, and the cost of gasoline for a 20 minute commute to work is about $80 per month. So a family of two people would have only $77 remaining each month, which is not enough. (Even with insurance, one visit to a doctor could cost this much after buying some medicine.) This also assumes that he has no credit debt and no life insurance. The result is that on this income the family must give up some things that the average family would have: choose a smaller house, 15% elect not to have health insurance, some drive only old cars, etc."

Wating for your comments, guys.

I am going to attach a VERY useful document. It contains 2 "lessons" designed to 'teach' the concept and practicality of western finances to women from the FSU who may not be aware of such realities.

This document was prepared (in English) by a good friend of mine (Del) who is a resident of Canada, hence, the values may be slightly different from America, and it was prepared maybe 5 years ago, so it could be somewhat out of date. The Russian version was translated by a different friend of mine who lives in Kyiv.

Nonetheless, it served me well when Olya and I were courting, and it gave us a solid basis for communication so that she completely understood some of the differences in financial conditions she (and I) would face.

It is attached as an Adobe PDF file.

- Dan