Less than 90 days or more than 90 days?

[catzenmouse]

CaptB,

 You are a very wise man.

Ken

[Michelangelo]

Her environment (her turf).......will tell you all you need to know about the person she "is."

I think this is true.  But it remains only one part of the equation...

For you see, she also has to learn to adapt to a foreign culture.  Culture shock is  a BIG problem for most girls who are thrust from the FSU into the United States.

So just because she is great at home does NOT mean she will be the same person here, in the US.

In fact, most girls at times will be quite different when they get here, regardless of what they were like at home.

And I still question if 90 days in the US, as set by the K-1 visa, is long enough for you to see if she can make the adjustment...

[Admin]

I/O,

As you can see.........my "Are you Ready" thread is already slowly sinking into the sunset. A few folks (most already married) thought the subject was valuable. But I have learned that posting such threads here....and on the RWG.......get similar responses.........ie lukewarm. Too many would rather be concerned with "teeth"........or "breasts......whos are bigger.....RW or UW?"............or total preocupation with "scam" sites etc........rather than doing what it takes to attract, find and keep a woman from the FSU.

CaptB,

Take heart. Your posts at the other topic were outstanding and initiated a move among us to find a way to create a "Best Of RWD" capability - again. We did this when we were using the previous software, but then opted to use the Topic Rating (1 to 5 stars) feature when we migrated to this software - which will still be used, but the Best of RWD has again resurfaced and your topic is likely to become the first.

Will keep you posted as this progresses.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

Good stuff Michelangelo! More pieces to add to the puzzle of 800,000,000 pieces. Comments below.

I think this is true.  But it remains only one part of the equation...

For you see, she also has to learn to adapt to a foreign culture.  Culture shock is  a BIG problem for most girls who are thrust from the FSU into the United States.

Yes, is truly is. Bigger for some than for others but it is still something to be recognized and payed attention to.

So just because she is great at home does NOT mean she will be the same person here, in the US.

In fact, most girls at times will be quite different when they get here, regardless of what they were like at home.

I think a big part of this is stress related. Stress of new language, surroundings, homesickness which can be a bumpy ride for a time but in the end she will continue to be that person after this settles down.

[quote}And I still question if 90 days in the US, as set by the K-1 visa, is long enough for you to see if she can make the adjustment...[/quote]

This is the $64 question.

 For some it will be a honeymoon period and there will be no issues that come up. You don't really know until "life as normal" sets in.

 For others this can be a crazy time with all the emotions flying wild and you think it is all a huge mistake. If you jump too soon you miss out on the settling down of the turmoil and the good reality to follow. If you wait too long and it doesn't settle down you may end up in DV land? Again damn hard to "know" which way it will fall.

 This is where time together and good communication can give you a "heads up" as to what is to come.

It is another question like the age difference one or the how long together first before you poop the question one. VERY individual in the outcome.

There, you've just wasted another few minutes of your day. Back to work now! 

[Admin]

It is another question like the age difference one or the how long together first before you poop the question one. VERY individual in the outcome.

"poop the question" ??

I'll bet that got past the spell-checker just fine. 

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

We all have our special ways of asking....

.. and yes, it went right past the spell check just fine thank you...

[BC]

I think this is true.  But it remains only one part of the equation...

For you see, she also has to learn to adapt to a foreign culture.  Culture shock is  a BIG problem for most girls who are thrust from the FSU into the United States.

So just because she is great at home does NOT mean she will be the same person here, in the US.

In fact, most girls at times will be quite different when they get here, regardless of what they were like at home.

And I still question if 90 days in the US, as set by the K-1 visa, is long enough for you to see if she can make the adjustment...

Michelangelo,

Looking back (and yes I know that is easy), I really don't think 3 or 6 or even 12 months would have been of benefit.

Our greatest hurdles were experienced between 12 and 18 months.

Fact is, our decision was for her to move here and not vice versa.  The adjustment period is something that just has to evolve and be dealt with as it comes..  that's why I weigh mutual commitment much higher than time at your 'home plate'.

Maybe this is because I grew up as a military brat and was quite accustomed to my dad coming home exclaiming 'Guess where we are going..'.

I don't think the thought ever crossed my mom's mind of having to make a choice.. 

Even if my wife had visited here before we married it would have had absolutely no bearing on our relationship.  If she would have dumped me because of locale, I would say good riddance, then evaluate the factors that caused me to rush things along based on my commitment alone.

[CaptB]

BC,

Exactly. My wife and I were married in Russia. "Adapting" to the new environment is just a matter of course.......of time. For anyone who did the work......and took the time they needed (both parties) to know they chose the right partner.....adaptation should not be an issue. Being "together" wherever you mutually choose to live........is. If she bolts because of "locale".........you did'nt have a strong enough relatioinship to begin with. Good Russian women are very committed to family.....above most anything else. In a strong relationship...."adaption".....will take care of itself.


Capt B

[I/O]

I/O,

As you can see.........my "Are you Ready" thread is already slowly sinking into the sunset. A few folks (most already married) thought the subject was valuable. But I have learned that posting such threads here....and on the RWG.......get similar responses.........ie lukewarm. Too many would rather be concerned with "teeth"........or "breasts......whos are bigger.....RW or UW?"............or total preocupation with "scam" sites etc........rather than doing what it takes to attract, find and keep a woman from the FSU.

C/B  It seems to me that perhaps matters relative to this pursuit which can really be "Drilled Down" upon may have a finite interest to those who appear to be in the majority, who seem to prefer to deal in more abstract matters.

Perhaps this is indicative of many invloved in online activitites and more particularly international partner searches.  I think they much prefer to pontificate than participate.

In the thread you started, I felt very much the beginner among the others, but there was much to be gained there and it is a pitty that others didn't take up the challenge to extract as much from you married guys as was / is possible.  I for one, happen to think that if you married guys are silly enough to give your time to offer a bit of advice and assistance, I will bleed your brains for everything I can get out of you.  Selfish? You Betcha..!!  This game is tough enough, so I am out to get as much help as I can find.

C/B Your other topic is first class and I think it is worth making an effort to ramp it up again. It has been more significant to note who didn't participate than it has been to note who did.

I/O

[jb]

I/O,

For the record, it was CaptB who finally put a spur in my butt and asked me if I was ever going to marry that woman, or simply date her forever...  I married her, and he stood up for me at the wedding in Moscow.  And that was over 5 years ago, we've been pals for a while.

I can attest he is very level headed, and pithy as needed. always with good advice.

An all around good and decent guy.  I'm lucky to have such a friend.

[I/O]

I/O,

For the record, it was CaptB who finally put a spur in my butt and asked me if I was ever going to marry that woman, or simply date her forever...  I married her, and he stood up for me at the wedding in Moscow.  And that was over 5 years ago, we've been pals for a while.

I can attest he is very level headed, and pithy as needed. always with good advice.

An all around good and decent guy.  I'm lucky to have such a friend.

JB.  Yes I have become aware of yours and C/B's association, involvement and friendship during my time here and I am also aware that he advised you that being the "Energiser Bunny" of dating your now wife wasn't really necessary.   Such friends who "Give it to you the way it is" are invaluable.  One only has to read about 3 lines of one of C/B's posts to understand something of the character you attest to.

My comment about participation and pontification was directed at the ever growing number of "None Trip or One Trip Wonders" who populate and to some extent putrify many of the online forums with abstract notions.  I remarked at a "Commercial conference" some time ago, the people in this world who are getting things done, are doing just that, getting things done.  You married guys have been there done that and are now involved in your respective lifetime "Works in progress".  In other words, getting more things done.

I/O

[Turboguy]

After 7 hours of sitting in the Bangkok airport that followed 36 hours of traveling my brain is fried, but if you are doing a K-1 aren't you suppsed to have pooped the question already.
Turboguy, sitting here with one more hour to wait,  qustion long ago pooped, and ring in carry on.

[Michelangelo]

Looking back (and yes I know that is easy), I really don't think 3 or 6 or even 12 months would have been of benefit.

Our greatest hurdles were experienced between 12 and 18 months.

Well, BC, these words certainly do not cheer me up!    LOL

Or as catz says... POOP!

I would say that 6 months is better than where we were at 2 months, and I suppose that even at 100 months couples will still have problems... 

[Michelangelo]

For anyone who did the work......and took the time they needed (both parties) to know they chose the right partner.....adaptation should not be an issue. Being "together" wherever you mutually choose to live........is. If she bolts because of "locale".........you didn't have a strong enough relationship to begin with.

Capt, if you guys did not experience culture shock, then you were lucky.

I spent overall about 6 months with Vik in Ukraine, and we were fine.  But when she hit the US, with the strange food and strange people and strange ways, she did flounder. No, she is not going to "bolt."  But as we "adapt," there is some pain--for both of us  LOL

So I submit that no matter how long you have with the girl in her country, she will still have to adapt when she gets to the US.  But the good thing about living with her in the FSU first?  She will not be getting used to YOU and a new environment.  So yeah, it's better to marry and live in the FSU first, if you can.

[Michelangelo]

After 7 hours of sitting in the Bangkok airport that followed 36 hours of traveling my brain is fried, but if you are doing a K-1 aren't you supposed to have pooped the question already.
Turboguy, sitting here with one more hour to wait,  question long ago pooped, and ring in carry on.

Poor TG    Now I bet you had gone to Jamaica!  Much less travel time 

Have fun!

[Jet]

When your finacee arrives here in the West, she will be faced with
a difficult period of adjustment. There will be problems and challenges.
Given that, how can our visa system be changed to help eliminate
those problems and make adjustment easier for your fiancee?

This is a lovely notion, however it boils down to the simple fact that IT'S NOT THE GOV'Ts JOB to make your fiancee's adjustment easier, IT'S YOURS!

As I do that, I will be wondering why a woman in Norway can
come here with a Tourist Visa, while my gal in %#*'pol cannot.
...because the current system is badly flawed and needs to
be scrutinized.
...what can you tell me about women from Norway? <grin>
 

This is a VERY easy question to answer. Women from Norway have traditionally have tended to return to Noway on or before the date their I-94 card tells them they must, while women (and men) from %#*'pol have NOT. I will not bore you with a long extrapolation as to why differing attitudes prevail in different countries, but western Europeans largely have a greater respect for "The rule of Law" than most residents of the Former Soviet Republics 

[Admin]

I will not bore you with a long extrapolation as to why differing attitudes prevail in different countries, but western Europeans largely have a greater respect for "The rule of Law" than most residents of the Former Soviet Republics 

Actually, that sounds like an intriguing topic. Exploration of the reasons, and veracity, of whether or not FSU residents follow laws more/less closely than western European and/or Americans.

FWIW

- Dan

[Shadow]

It all depends on how the citizens perceive the laws. If the laws are clear and perceived as honest, people will follow them. If laws are not clear and could be interpreted in different ways by those that uphold them, the inclination to follow them is much less.

Take a STOP sign as a simple example. If you place one at a junction that is obscured and where it is hard to see other traffic approaching, people will mostly stop. Placed at a junction in the open field where other traffic is seen miles away, people will tend to ignore the STOP sign.

[Photo Guy]

Jet,
How about the idea of making a 'sponsor' responsible for any overstays?
Where can I find the data for overstays from various countries?
Which countries are granted more tourist visas than other countries?
For example, if I wanted to find out the percentage of tourist visas
that are granted/refused to Bolivians as opposed to Vietnamese, where would
I go to find that data? 

As I've said, my friend hooked up with his wife after she arrived
here on a Work Visa. I think that's a beautiful thing.
Why not adjust the current Tourist Visa to enable the
same kind of result, and prevent overstays with
sponsorship requirements?  Curiously, Doug

[BC]

As I've said, my friend hooked up with his wife after she arrived
here on a Work Visa. I think that's a beautiful thing.

I'd say there are many thousands of FSU women that come over each year on work /summer visas.  We even met a few during our travels in the US last year working at restaurants and fast food places on the east coast.  In fact we were astounded at how many RU folk we saw in a three week period. Encountered FSU folk practically anywhere folks gather.. like the Zoo in DC, amusement parks in VA, etc etc.

Sounds like a good deal to me..

Seek and ye shall find.

[Jet]

Jet,
How about the idea of making a 'sponsor' responsible for any overstays?

Excerpts from a 2006 letter from the Center for immigration Studies to the Director from the Office of Exchange Coordination and Designation,
Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs,
Department of State

Inadequate Regulations and Oversight. The Office of Exchange Coordination and Designation has neither the resources nor the regulatory tools to effectively run the programs. Meanwhile the size of the programs have grown dramatically in recent years, from 205,000 exchange visas issued in 1995 to 300,000 in 2001. Issuances dropped after 2001, but climbed back to 275,000 in 2005. Adding to the workload of this office without a dramatic influx of funding and training is simply asking for more trouble, and risks undermining public support for exchange programs in general.
Many of the problems with the employment-related exchange visitor programs have been well documented in government audits and media accounts. The most recent Government Accountability Office report on the subject stated, “State has not exerted sufficient management oversight of the Summer Work Travel and the Trainee programs to guard against abuse of the programs and has been slow to address program deficiencies. (Stronger Action Needed to Improve Oversight and Assess Risks of the Summer Work Travel and Trainee Categories of the Exchange Visitor Program, GAO-06-106, October, 2005).” The report went on to list a number of problems, including infrequent site visits to verify that exchange programs and sponsors are adhering to the program’s purposes and rules, vague or overly general regulations, unsatisfactory record-keeping, and feeble enforcement tools.

In the absence of sufficient resources to oversee the programs, the State Department has in effect abdicated the oversight of many exchange programs to the program sponsors, many of whom have a significant financial stake in the programs. Some sponsors function as traditional non-profit exchange organizations; others function more like for-profit employment agencies, earning large fees by allowing third party host organizations to participate under the umbrella of their sponsorship authority.

Though under the statute the sponsors are responsible for making sure the third party hosts abide by the program rules, in practice, there has been little incentive for them to pay much attention. This lack of oversight can have negative results for the participants. Sometimes the training provided is sub-standard or non-existent, with participants relegated to “flipping burgers” instead of receiving management training (as happened when a Philadelphia-area Wendy’s sponsored Trainees several years ago). In some cases, participants have been treated badly, receiving little net pay, or by being forced to live in sub-standard housing, as was the case when a Vermont mountain resort hosted foreign exchange visitors as chambermaids and bar tenders several years ago.

Exchange Visitor Compliance with Immigration Laws is a Problem. Data from a variety of sources indicate that exchange visitors may have a high propensity to violate the terms of their non-immigrant visa and remain illegally in the United States. The exchange visitor visa also is used as a springboard to legal permanent status, which is legal, although clearly not the intent of the program. The GAO auditors found that the departure of only about 36% of recent exchange visitors could be confirmed by DHS, while 24% of recent visitors were possible overstayers, and the status of 40% could not be determined. Validation studies completed by U.S. consulates abroad have indicated overstay rates of more than 25% in some countries. The system created to monitor student and exchange visitor compliance (SEVIS) generates for the immigration enforcement agency an average of 500 cases per week of foreign student and exchange visitors who appear to have gone out of status.

While these statistics certainly point to compliance problems in the exchange visitor program, without better information it is impossible to determine which kinds of programs and which kinds of visitors present the most risk for overstay. There are programs that appear to be working as intended and seem to have low overstay or adjustment rates. However, neither the State Department nor the Department of Homeland Security has a reliable way to assess the risk involved in launching a new exchange program. The SEVIS program and the partially-implemented US-VISIT program will eventually provide the data that the agencies need to assess risk, but the capacity is not there yet. What is lacking is an exit-recording system that will enable DHS to know when visitors have departed, and a greater level of compliance enforcement activity to encourage visitors to comply with the terms of their visa.

Visa Compliance Problems = National Security Problems. Terrorists, criminals and those seeking better economic opportunities will use any avenue available to enter the United States. Any weakness in our immigration system is ripe for exploitation. According to Janice Kephart, a terrorism expert and former staff member of the 9/11 Commission, “The attack of 9/11 was not an isolated instance of al Qaeda infiltration into the United States. In fact, dozens of operatives . . . have managed to enter and embed themselves in the United States, actively carrying out plans to commit terrorist acts. . . .

Conclusion. Any changes to the nation’s visa programs must be made with the nation’s best interests in mind. There are few compelling reasons to expand the scope of the Summer Work Travel program to allow participants to stay for longer periods of time, and several compelling reasons to refrain from doing so.


The letter can be read in it's entirety here.

Where can I find the data for overstays from various countries?
Which countries are granted more tourist visas than other countries?
For example, if I wanted to find out the percentage of tourist visas
that are granted/refused to Bolivians as opposed to Vietnamese, where would
I go to find that data? 

Reliable data has not been made public, but this might help:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2005/OIS_2005_Yearbook.pdf

DEPORTABLE ALIENS LOCATED BY REGION AND COUNTRY OF NATIONALITY: FISCAL YEAR 2005

• Denmark . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
• Russia .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . 195
• Ukraine . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 154
• Soviet Union (former) . . . . 42

[William3rd]

Nice piece on the work program and that is only the tip of the iceburg.

Interesting 2005 stats near the end. And those are the aliens found DEPORTABLE-not the visa overstays. You have to go a long way to reach the deportable alien list.