Science or Romance?

[I/O]

What is the active pursuit of an international relationship? Is it a science or is it a romantic notion? How to apply both for a successful outcome?

I submit that many commence this pursuit in frustration or at worst almost desperation as a result of previous experiences on the domestic market.  This IMHO is a huge mistake and usually leads to more frustration.

To throw a few ideas out to start off with, I would say that being a typically dreamy teenager, I went through all the romantic ideas of meeting someone from a far away country, falling in love and living happily ever after.  As I grew into the realities of life, this was forgotten.  Later, much later after some sobering experiences and due to some international exposure, I saw an opportunity to perhaps explore this as a serious and viable option.  Thus I did.

Some of the long time members on this board have for one reason or another, met and married their Russian partner in quite a traditional way.  For the very vast majority who are now interested in this process, it is quite another story.  With a kalidascope of options now available to facilitate the meeting of an international partner, one should IMHO pursue in the early stages a very scientific or logical approach with one eye on the romantic aspect at a later time.

Where and when we should draw the line between the two is often a personal choice, however side discussions eluding to this have adheard themselves to other threads, thus I thought it might be interesting to confront this reality head on and bring some ideas to the table.

I will say that I have always avoided detailing the development of the relationship between my fiance' and myself to this point as it has been unconventional and certainly riddled with risk.  I would hate to guide anyone down such a risky path by hanging up this as a detailed example.  After we have been married a few years, I might just table some of the ridiculous things we did.  But for now, who has something to offer this discussion and I have left the terms of reference fairly open...................

I/O

[Mir]

If by science you mean biology then you will succeed but if you want to use mathematics the all relationships will fail.

[I/O]

If by science you mean biology then you will succeed but if you want to use mathematics the all relationships will fail.

Only biology? No Chemistry?  As for mathmatics, I suggest it does form quite a large part of the process at various stages.  Numbers seem to be the main measure for many.  How many do I visit? How long will it take?  How much will it cost?  How many letters does one write? I see these questions raised time and again.

I/O

[Kuna]

What is the active pursuit of an international relationship? Is it a science or is it a romantic notion? How to apply both for a successful outcome?

I submit that many commence this pursuit in frustration or at worst almost desperation as a result of previous experiences on the domestic market.  This IMHO is a huge mistake and usually leads to more frustration.

To throw a few ideas out to start off with, I would say that being a typically dreamy teenager, I went through all the romantic ideas of meeting someone from a far away country, falling in love and living happily ever after.  As I grew into the realities of life, this was forgotten.  Later, much later after some sobering experiences and due to some international exposure, I saw an opportunity to perhaps explore this as a serious and viable option.  Thus I did.

Some of the long time members on this board have for one reason or another, met and married their Russian partner in quite a traditional way.  For the very vast majority who are now interested in this process, it is quite another story.  With a kalidascope of options now available to facilitate the meeting of an international partner, one should IMHO pursue in the early stages a very scientific or logical approach with one eye on the romantic aspect at a later time.

Where and when we should draw the line between the two is often a personal choice, however side discussions eluding to this have adheard themselves to other threads, thus I thought it might be interesting to confront this reality head on and bring some ideas to the table.

I will say that I have always avoided detailing the development of the relationship between my fiance' and myself to this point as it has been unconventional and certainly riddled with risk.  I would hate to guide anyone down such a risky path by hanging up this as a detailed example.  After we have been married a few years, I might just table some of the ridiculous things we did.  But for now, who has something to offer this discussion and I have left the terms of reference fairly open...................

I/O

Interesting question I/O...

I think that you would have to be romantic to be successful in this pursuit BUT as I'm logically driven I've tried to keep things "to plan" and have really worked NOT to let the emotion carry me away.

Once I have made a BIG decision I'll happily let emotion take control but all aspects of my life have an element of logical reasoning.

Like all things in life i think BALANCE is the key.  If one is too carried away with the romance before something is REAK he'll make bad decisions.  If someone is too logical he probably wouldn't get on the plane in the beginning.  ???

One more comment...  I think many of the failures are caused when a guy losed touch with reality and his little head starts doing his thinking.  The ego boost some may feel to be "accepted" by a beautiful woman MIGHT be the cause of many failed pursuits!

Just my thoughts,

Kuna

[Mir]

In pursuit of a mate biology is what rules us. Sexual chemistry is part of this.
As for mathematics,yes it has to be used as life in any form is not possible without it. Only mathematics will make it possible for us to visit the woman etc. but when mathematics is the main force used to decide our relationships then the results are not good.

[I/O]

In pursuit of a mate biology is what rules us. Sexual chemistry is part of this.
As for mathematics,yes it has to be used as life in any form is not possible without it. Only mathematics will make it possible for us to visit the woman etc. but when mathematics is the main force used to decide our relationships then the results are not good.

Mir If what you say is correct, then the reality is, for the vast majority to pursue this idea, they have to get the science (Maths) sorted first.  If they never get that sorted and make the trip, they cant get started with the Biology/Chemistry side.

Somehow when it comes to Romance, this doesn't seem right, but it does appear to be the reality.

I/O

[Kuna]

Ya know... I've looked at this thread a few times and it's really got me thinking.

The correct answer to this question will be the formula for success for anyone pursuing a relaitonship, in FSU or not.  I think a lot of us would like to think we got the formula right but how much luck was involved?

I think substituting the word "emotion" instead of "romance" might be appropriate because I think it's the emotions that potentially brings of us unstuck, not the romance. 

I/O.. I DO think the science must come first (The Who, What, Where, When questions).

Obviously a relatioship cannot prosper if all we have is logic though... or at least it would require two VERY dry people to be fulfilled by a purely logical relationship. (I knew a coouple like that but after 10 years of marriage she decided she was a lesbian... Where's the logic in that???)

Once we have an understanding of the "science" we can start to allow the emotions to engage.  I think as the emotions become involved it is still wise to refer to the science (Is this as I imagined?  Am I fair dinkum or am I fooling myself here?)

The emotion is the stuff that feels good... the logic is important (I believe) to ensure we don't feel the emotions of pain and hurt.

Just my thoughts... and I still don't know if I've explained them well enough.

Kuna

[jb]

If a man and woman meet in a more traditional way, they don't usually have to be concerned about the numbers too much.  It's just boy meets girl, boy is smitten, and girl allows boy to chase her until she catches him.  In an international relationship, the numbers become extremely important, without a sufficient number of dollars, there simply is no chase and boy never catches girl, or vice versa.

From my observations on these boards over the past years it goes something like this,,, boy sees girl's profile on a website, boy is smitten by an artfully arranged, professionally done photograph, boy writes a letter, boy gets a response, boy sends large amounts of cash for girl to get visa and plane fare, boy gets his head handed to him by scammer girl, boy crawls off to lick wounds, boy eventually finds RWD and learns to understand the need to get the science of it right before the romance can truly blossom.

[Mir]

I/O

Yes as jb has put it the math/logical analysis etc. part needs to be sorted if not all of it then the most of it before the romance/emotions engage themselves.
If romance is the total driver at the start then relations will fail due to faulty mathematics,on the other hand once romance is fully engaged then using mathematics at every step will lead to a colapse of the relationship.
To some extent the science of Mathematics Will be the main tool when straiting in this venture but once you are totally committed then let biology take over and think about the birds and the bees.

[catzenmouse]

Yes, balance is the key here. But also knowing when to shift the balance to suit the situation can make or break you.

A typical scenario could look like this:

Search Phase: 90% Logic / 10% Romance

Woo Phase: 75% Romance / 25% Logic

Marriage and Life Phase: 50% Logic / 50% Romance (this is the most fluctuating number as there are days where it will swing 100% one way or the other depending upon the needs/desires of the couple at any specific time.

All numbers are variable depending upon the individual, the alignment of the stars, what they are wearing on any given day, and color of ear wax. Prices subject to change without notice. Taxes, title, and tags are not included. Availability may vary depending upon store location.

Ken

[jb]

Marriage and Life Phase: 50% Logic / 50% Romance (this is the most fluctuating number as there are days where it will swing 100% one way or the other depending upon the needs/desires of the couple at any specific time.

This generally occurs every 28 days. 

[I/O]

Well I don't know what chance we guys have as I was once advised that women are tempramental, that's 90% temper and 10% mental. 

I/O who thought twice before signing this.

[Mir]

And men 90% mental and 10% temper=mentlatemper ??

[Nat]

Romance? Science? May be it’s something other... Curiosity, for example

[Mir]

Curiosity is the mother of many sciences and the death of many romances!

[I/O]

JB, in my view came close to the reality, certainly spot on with one reality and the possible solution when he remarked that some people eventually find their way to this board to get their heads sorted out a bit before going further.

Perhaps something of a list of the science side and also the romance/emotion side might be worth looking at.

Science/Pragmatism (You choose the term as it applies to you)

Complete all your divorce formalities.  (You would be amazed how many start this before that is done)
Devote sufficient personal recovery time.
Introspection.  (Sufficient time, energy and perhaps assistance)
Establish and clearly understand your financial position.
Consider carefully the type of person you want to find.
Allocate daily/weekly time to the pursuit.
Research.  RWD participation or similar.
Understand your options.
Website or Agency research.
Travel and geography research. (Buy a decent atlas)
Understand the risks.
Language study.
Develop a letter of introduction.  (If using websites)
Set clear limits regarding the romantic content of early communications.
Seek advice from experienced successful people.
Forward plan holiday/vacation/travel time. (Consider climate and seasons)
Screen your contacts.  (You can't write/call everyone. Limit the numbers)
Find a useful travel agent/advisor
Make a decision to go visit. 
Do it.

The above is by no means a complete list, but it might give some food for thought.  Ok, the lemming has now decided to make his rush towards the cliff and perhaps has already unleashed  some of his romantic skills.  Now comes the time ramp it up to some extent, so again he should prepare.

Romance

Send flowers.
Pack condoms.

I make light of it, but the experienced members would be surprised to know how many people don't see much more too it than that.

Some food for thought.........

I/O

[wiz]

One more comment...  I think many of the failures are caused when a guy losed touch with reality and his little head starts doing his thinking.  The ego boost some may feel to be "accepted" by a beautiful woman MIGHT be the cause of many failed pursuits!

In a nother post:

The emotion is the stuff that feels good... the logic is important (I believe) to ensure we don't feel the emotions of pain and hurt.

Kuna

Romance is part of the notion and need, when we are taking this road to find the right woman.

The emotion is the driving force in our pursuit but as you say logic is very important not only not to feel the pain and hurt but also to make sure you avoid all the pitfalls and hopefully succeed in your quest.

I have learned to take a step back, when things seems not to be right, use logic to analysise everything and then come to a conclusion and take the relevant action.

[wiz]

JB, in my view came close to the reality, certainly spot on with one reality and the possible solution when he remarked that some people eventually find their way to this board to get their heads sorted out a bit before going further.

Perhaps something of a list of the science side and also the romance/emotion side might be worth looking at.

Science/Pragmatism (You choose the term as it applies to you)

Complete all your divorce formalities.  (You would be amazed how many start this before that is done)
Devote sufficient personal recovery time.
Introspection.  (Sufficient time, energy and perhaps assistance)
Establish and clearly understand your financial position.
Consider carefully the type of person you want to find.
Allocate daily/weekly time to the pursuit.
Research.  RWD participation or similar.
Understand your options.
Website or Agency research.
Travel and geography research. (Buy a decent atlas)
Understand the risks.
Language study.
Develop a letter of introduction.  (If using websites)
Set clear limits regarding the romantic content of early communications.
Seek advice from experienced successful people.
Forward plan holiday/vacation/travel time. (Consider climate and seasons)
Screen your contacts.  (You can't write/call everyone. Limit the numbers)
Find a useful travel agent/advisor
Make a decision to go visit. 
Do it.

The above is by no means a complete list, but it might give some food for thought.  Ok, the lemming has now decided to make his rush towards the cliff and perhaps has already unleashed  some of his romantic skills.  Now comes the time ramp it up to some extent, so again he should prepare.

Romance

Send flowers.
Pack condoms.

I make light of it, but the experienced members would be surprised to know how many people don't see much more too it than that.

Some food for thought.........

I/O

Sounds to me like a nice business plan to be put in motion and executed!

[I/O]

Sounds to me like a nice business plan to be put in motion and executed!

Nobody plans to fail, but many fail to plan.  Net result is the same.

I/O

[LEGAL]

Yes, a logic is very important as you say, guys. But I  agree  with PhotoGuy too, when he wrote we should not to be "dry". Romance is not just the uncontrollable exalted feelings and is not just sending flowers.
 I was sitting in coffee - house and having lunch with my friend Irena when I got my first flowers from my LEGAL. A woman  delivered them to our table. Standing with the red roses I really felt like queen. It is wonderful feelings for woman.
Before our first meeting face to face and after I woke up with LEGAL's phone call I went to bed with LEGAL's phone call. LEGAL phoned me  four times a day. We always could say "good night" and "good morning" to each other and ask each other "how is your day? what is news? did you have lunch or you again haven't time for it?" It is part of romance  also and very important part. Two people from different ends of the World so close to each other. They  share  every their days, thoughts and feelings. It  helps to know each other better and better. It helps to be closer to each other, of course if you need it and if you are ready for it. 

Olga.

"Romance should never begin with sentiment. It should begin with science and end with a settlement".
Oscar Wilde

[I/O]

"Romance should never begin with sentiment. It should begin with science and end with a settlement". Oscar Wilde

And.....Too many times it does.  With a Divorce Settlement.

I/O

[LEGAL]

  With a Divorce Settlement.

I/O

about it in "Prenuptial agreement - yes or no?"

[Makkin]

Hello,

  The Roses looked beautiful and I'm reaally glad to hear your opinions about your experiences in the dating period before marriage. It's nice to learn about the happiness the roses brought you and how you demonstrated that here.

  Happiness about all things is good and dating seems to me to be a thing about feelings and the happiness from the heart. The heart feels happiness,pain.etc.... I am not talking about the MIND but the actual organ of the HEART. I suspect laughing is good for the heart but a memory of roses will add life to you because the HEART also remembers significantly and feels as  the brain does not. Just recall happiness and when the HEART skipped.

Makkin

[Mir]

'The heart feels happiness,pain.etc.... I am not talking about the MIND but the actual organ of the HEART. I suspect laughing is good for the heart but a memory of roses will add life to you because the HEART also remembers significantly and feels as  the brain does not. Just recall happiness and when the HEART skipped.'

Well the pain of actual organ called heart is due to ischimia leading to angina or infarct (heart attack) and the skipping of the heart could be an arrhythmia.
Yes it is the brain where all emotions are and not in the heart unless we speak symbolically.

[IAmZon]

Thomas Jefferson wrote a fantastic short story called "The Heart and The Head."  But I/O, you inquiry (and ours) is different because of the unique framework in place TODAY.

Firstly, there are perceptions.  And they work in all directions:
AM are all rich;
RW are all beautiful and loyal;
AM only want sex: RW are scammers:
Oh, and this one, "is that a Russian Mail order bride?"

And there are facts,
a man and women meet and then comes a spark;
a simple kiss becomes a life experience
a memory is played back over and over and over in the mind

What necessitates your question; indeed what necessitates the RWD group is the unique framework at work today.  This framework (internet; marriage agencies; the backdrop of obvious economic dislocations between one country and the others - green card girls) introduces many data points that the HEAD recognizes; and subsequently; anxiety and pause are created.

I have spend an great amount of time on the scientific aspect of this cause - the theory. It is a necessary but funny thing.  It is a means to an end; yet, it can become an end in itself.  Be careful.

I have also taken action, and put the theory to the test. (I have dated 3 RW this year.  I have had a romance with another.  I am excited to meet another women who I have been introduced to in just 2 weeks.  Surprisingly, I have done all this stateside.)  In fact, I just got back from a two week trip where I lived with girls form the FSU: ate; slept; showered; partied - I even went to college night classes.  There are many cultural differences that are real and important.  These are discussed in detail here in RWD.

I, and most members here, have found in RW something particularly appealing - there is a lot to appreciate.  And that is why we consider and study.  To have awareness to be more proficient.

BUT - and this is my point I/O - all that stuff, "the science" is a just a barrier to enter the market; a cover charge.  None of that will change who we are; or how we will really be perceived.  Who we are is who we are.  Man know thy self.  Everything of importance happens in person, and in unscripted settings. In these meeting with women from different cultures, I have noticed that base understandings ... the unveiling of the real human being ... however incomplete, can happen very fast.  No graphs or statistics will help impress the woman, or help make the right choices.

Its a cool thing