Beauty: Inside vs. Outside Mutually Exclusive?

[Kuna]

FWIW... I know what Rivardco is doing...  He's QUANTIFYING which is a lot better than many men that go to FSU.  If only some of the losers quantified the situation before going there and making us all look like a$$es.

Rivardco..

The thing I will say is that while RWD is an A Class service for men that have an interest like ours, nothing you'll read and no one reciting their personal experiences will prepare you for what you'll find.

I spent a lot of time last night backing up all my photos from my trip and had a wonderful time.  If I sent you the DVD's you'd see a lot of beautiful buildings, girls and clubs but what you won't get is what I got when I looked at them again... the smells, sounds and tastes and the memories of a great adventure.

The feeling when I first set eyes on Ms D getting off the train with her gleaming smile.  

The conversations we had that I'd almost forgotten.  

The laughter and the tenderness... her cheekiness and sense of fun... all the things I cannot explain.

Since meeting her face to face and returning home we've talked on the phone several times a day and over the past few days she's been quite ill with a cold.  The feeling of helplessness and the desire to just make her a cup of tea is almost overpowering.

The things that are important now are very different than the things that were important before my trip.

Travel to FSU is a mystery because we read so much of other people opinions (including the damn agencies) but once you set foot on the ground everything you read will be put into perspective.

I think you should choose an agency and go for some "power-dating".  It'd leave you enough free time to explore a city either alone or with one of the girls you meet.

After that first trip if you haven't found someone you want more time with I'll almost guarantee you that you'll sit on the plane on the way home planning your return.

Keep asking questions... you're making me think!

Kuna

[I/O]

Rivardco I probably run against the tide of many, but frankly I don't need a trigger to do the things I decide to do.  For example, I have heard friends go though the justifications for buying the new car, the old one is falling in value, the new one will make this or that easier, the new one is more fuel efficient, it's a great deal, etc etc.  I think you hear me.

Why? Again Why? The answer IMO is this.  People who don't have the courage of their convictions spend countless hours trying to solicit support from others in order to build their confidence and therefore justify the decision which is already made.  The answer in all of these things, is we do them because we "Dammed well want to", not more not less.

Rivardco, I gotta admit I didn't pick you as the type of guy who would waver.  If you need a trigger, then don't go.  If you really want to dig into all of this through your own eyes, then go and go soon before you allow yourself to be pervaded by all the opinions on various matters.  I do differ opinions from the factual information which is given by those who know what they are talking about.

To your question.  I kinda think the real question is , "Can I have both" and I have been long convinced the answer is an emphatic yes, if you have what it takes to go get it. (Her)  The lady in that little video clip has been referred to in this thread also and some say she is typical of what you will find in the FSU.  I can't say I 100% agree with that.  "Normal"? Yes.  Typical...hmmmm  maybe. 

You remarked that your cup is overflowing at home and taking that into account with other things I am sensing, I have the feeling that you probably should exhaust your possabilities at home before you really think seriously about the FSU idea where women are concerned.  However, a trip to the FSU for the tourism purpose will show you a most interesting aspect of life and cultures which many people never have the opportunity to see.  In summary, if it is just a curiosity shop, don't bother.

I/O

[timothe]

I agree with both of the last two posters.  Going to Russia to "date" has been the single most exciting thing I have ever done in my somewhat sheltered life.  Although I'm not married to a RW/UW yet, the adventure itself is worth the time and money I invested.  (And I've invested a lot...over 25k over 5 trips including financial support, English lessons, driving lessons, etc.)

There's just no way for you know until you go.  If paying $10 per letter to the most stunning woman you see at brides.ru is what it takes for you to get on a plane, then I'd suggest that.  The objections you are bringing up now is not much more than mental masterbation, IMO. 

Make no mistake...your first trip will be the beginning, not the end, of the process.  And at the end of the road, you may end up single. (as I have so far)  But I'm sure you won't regret the experience.

[LEGAL]

Friends ask a guy: Why is your wife so ugly???
Guy: But she has a beauty inside her.
Friends: Maybe you should turn her inside out?

There are not ugly women in the World sometimes just not enough vodka.

Jokes  
Olga.

[TexasBoar]

JB

I wasn't your looks. It was the uniform.

Good call.

I'm sure JB was once young, but I'm not convinced he was EVER good looking. 

Just kidding, JB.  No need to unload on me yet again. 

On the topic at hand . . . my experience has been that really good looking women--models and such---are, for the most part, a little insecure and, if you're friendly, open, and pretend you're not intimidated by how stunning they are, generally approachable.  However, they do tend to think being beautiful is enough and don't put a whole lot of effort into, aaaah, the bedroom and/or interpersonal aspects of the relationship.

Almost really good looking women, on the other hand, the kind who ruled their cliques in high school and such, can be just brutal. 

I'm a fan of cuteness.  Cute women with good personalities rock my world.

~Boar

[Jazzyclassy]

      Just curious,,, did you find the girl in I/O's video appealing?  She's very typical of what you will find in Russia.          

To my mind she is ok....

but there are much more more more better, such kinda girls like her you 'll meet  a lot but that does not mean all russian women are like that, I beg your pardon really

there are much more hotter superhotter, amazing bright women , just take a trip to Moscow underground and your fake plastic Jordan and Caprice and Kelly Brooke will look like a cheap worn out old farts:)))
if you go around Russia you will be fascinated by the beauty of the girls from different region , my cousine lives in Rostov on Don there girls are very energetic, terrific and absolutely hotest , Siberia girls are very beautiful they got unique charm, there are of course some girls who are random and common , but they do look pretty  cos they are not mad about their looks, they look how they look  and are happy with this and will never ever be upset if some old foreign fart wont pay attention to her )))))) oh yeah


 any other  questions?

[I/O]

Jazz Maybe you should check your diet.  There seems to be a lot of f**ts pervading your thinking.  You're above that.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

oh I was not talking about myself

am completely ugly in comparison  with the woman in the video , I am not even telling anything, oh dear of course not ,she is very pretty , what I was trying to say that there are much more better , that 's it:)

Why do you think I did not post my picture here? yeah yeah this is the thing everybody will be in shock of how I look like hahahha

hahahah my diet is eating chocos, cakes and pastry all day long hahahaha

[Nando]

Jazzy is right. The girl is completely plain average in terms of looks if you go to the FSU.
There are many better looking women in their thirties over there but off course they don't care of ugly and fat foreigners, just because they show up some dollars or euros and...because they are happily married

[IAmZon]

To JB:
 AJ will feel better this morning reading that you think he is a "stunner." 

To Jinx and Twobits:
Always do much more than type. Thanks for the concern.

To Kuna:
I'm glad you get me.  I'm just trying to rattle the jar ... to make sure I can't get anthing else out of RWD, something that would help me.  (Nothing so far:)

To I/O:
Trigger is the wrong word, indeed.  Don't be surprised my friend.  I do not waiver.  Better to say that I am in my final stages of choosing an approach. And with regard to exhausting options at home, that would take three lifetimes. 

I am vacillating on strategy and aim.  Nothing wrong in that. A man should first and foremost know himself. I think few do. 

Perhaps the greatest element in my thinking that has changed over the last several months is that I do NOT n e c e s s a r i l y want to find my ideal woman immediately. Rather, I am inclined to be patient ... to explore and confirm ... to go outside the normal orbit of arranged meetings.

Jazzy:
I think you covered it all:)

[jb]

Perhaps the greatest element in my thinking that has changed over the last several months is that I do NOT n e c e s s a r i l y want to find my ideal woman immediately.

Russia and Ukraine is a long way to go for a date.  If, as you say, you don't want to find a woman to marry, then stay at home and date to your hearts content, however the girls in the FSU who have listed themself as wanting to marry,,, are wanting to marry, not date.  If you take your prince charming self to their country for a date, they will think you are serious.  Sounds like the path to some hurt feelings to me.  Or maybe that's your plan, to go and play with the pretty girls with no thoughts about commitment. 

[Admin]

Russia and Ukraine is a long way to go for a date.  If, as you say, you don't want to find a woman to marry, then stay at home and date to your hearts content, however the girls in the FSU who have listed themself as wanting to marry,,, are wanting to marry, not date.  If you take your prince charming self to their country for a date, they will think you are serious.  Sounds like the path to some hurt feelings to me.  Or maybe that's your plan, to go and play with the pretty girls with no thoughts about commitment. 

>>Or maybe that's your plan, to go and play with the pretty girls with no thoughts about commitment. <<

I do not get that impression at all. I see rivardco as being quite serious and thoughtful about his approach. He asks questions - many of them - in the hopes of gaining a thorough understanding of what this adventure is all about - but I have seen nothing at all which suggests he is inconsiderate or thoughtless or seeking to play games with other's emotions.

- Dan

[IAmZon]

Thank you Dan ... truly, I am without the vices JB presumes. (what else is new)

Something that is not discussed enough is for a man to know himself, first and thoroughly.  Not just: ready, on your mark, get set; go get married! How phucking absolutely ridiculous, desperate, and insane!

The concept of finding a wife is not like filling a hole, at least not to me.  It has to be a thing I could NOT live without ... that may take time; that may never come at all.

In order to be in that place, mentally and psychologically ... I think a man should NOT n e c e s s a r i l y do a thing just to attain a given objective.  What I am referring to is to maintain a healthy detachment, a patient state of mind.  With this state of mind, one is free to more truly be oneself ... not prone to put on social masks, to artificially desire to please another; or artificially motivated to impress another ... and, not prone to compromise.

JB - I have said it before (and I really do not care): I am not half the ass you think I am.  Perceptions are funny things; sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong.  If today was my first day at RWD, what conclusions would I draw by your choice of avatar?  Unmistakablly, you view women as objects. But, because I have read your writtings, I know that is not the case - at least not entirely.

[jb]

rivardco,

You have repeatedly stated that you are enjoying being single, you have mentioned over and over that you date lots of good looking women in your town.   All of these things tell me you are a man who doesn't have the desire to settle down at this time.   For all your words in this last post, which make no sense to me whatsoever, you still cannot grasp that marriage is supposed to be a thing forever.  When a man says to me he doesn't n e c e s s a r i l y want to find my ideal woman immediately, I believe him, I take him at his word.  I further note your words:

The concept of finding a wife is not like filling a hole, at least not to me.  It has to be a thing I could NOT live without ... that may take time; that may never come at all.

Forgive me for mentioning this, but with your current frames of reference, enjoyment of the single life and lots of dates with hot women,,, the perfect woman could live next door and you'd miss her completely.

Do you not see the conflict in your words?

[Kuna]

I think this would make a great topic...

"Which is better?  Too Desperate or Not Desperate Enough?"


As I said in an earlier post I reckon Rivardco is trying to quantify what the experience might be like but I'd suggest that everything he imagines will go out of the window when he hits the ground.

I tried explaining something to a friend at home on the weekend about WHY the girls I met were different.  This is what I said:

Imagine picking the hottest girl from the Story Bridge Hotel (a cool funky pub to be in my hometown) and put her in a room with 100 other girls that are just as gorgeous as her.  She would suffer from anxiety because she's used to standing out but everyone else in the room would see her as being one in a crowd. There are high maintenance girls there that would be trouble.  The ones that are beautiful AND have a good character DO EXIST.

When Rivardco visits FSU any focus on looks will either dissipate or drive him crazy.  I truly believe that if you go to FSU focusing on looks you will fail because there is too much choice and too many traps.  If you meet girls and focus on their personalities you CAN find someone beautiful who also has a good character.

Just my thoughts...

Kuna

[Admin]

rivardco,

You have repeatedly stated that you are enjoying being single, you have mentioned over and over that you date lots of good looking women in your town.   All of these things tell me you are a man who doesn't have the desire to settle down at this time.   For all your words in this last post, which make no sense to me whatsoever, you still cannot grasp that marriage is supposed to be a thing forever.  When a man says to me he doesn't n e c e s s a r i l y want to find my ideal woman immediately, I believe him, I take him at his word.  I further note your words:Forgive me for mentioning this, but with your current frames of reference, enjoyment of the single life and lots of dates with hot women,,, the perfect woman could live next door and you'd miss her completely.

Do you not see the conflict in your words?

Interesting differences of interpretation.

I read rivardco as representing a very healthy scenario. He is interested in getting married, but far (VERY far) from desparate. As a healthy young man, he enjoys the vigor and options available to him. At the same time, he also recognizes that there is a large number of women in the world and does not feel the need (or desire) to restrict himself to only those in his 'back-yard' (so to speak).

In a lot of ways, it sounds like KenC's story of dating plenty of AW and only by happenstance, discovering Lena  (among some other options) online. He researched, gathered a lot of input from (among others) witchdoctor (Ron Woodie), made the trip - and the rest is history.

A guy with a healthy mental outlook is GOING TO be active with women wherever he may be. The fact that he looks to the FSU as an *additional* option is, IMO, just the behavior of a healthy vigorous man exploring all the available opportunities.

Nothing wrong with that.

A sidebar. My son won a high-level tennis tournament today. In the process, he handily won over a kid ranked in the Top 100 nationally. This kid my son beat has had some emotional maturity 'issues' - but as they near 16-years-old, I can see the differences in maturity. This young man came over earlier in the tournament and just wanted to talk with me a little. We talked about his older brother who is just entering college and who has a number of choices because of his tennis. The younger brother, the one I was taking with, is MUCH MUCH better at tennis and more highly-ranked - but the inflow of college interest letters has not yet begun. When it does, because he is in the Top 100 (and even Top 20 at times), he will literally be inundated with interest and offer letters from colleges across the country. I told him, and his Mom later, it is always good to have choices - and it is.

rivardco is no different.

- Dan

[Jumper]

Dan - I agree riv seems to just be simply looking into expanding his dating pool,
a good thing and healthy outlook..
(much like my own)
while he seems serious ,
and often asks some really good questions..
he has ALSO been flopping around for months with questions similar to this one,,
which is basically
*Can a really hot girl have a heart of gold?*
ok let me rephrase it a bit
*Can really hot RW cheerleaders have hearts of gold?
because most cheerleaders here, dont seem to.*
(is that close riv?)

while i can appreciate the question,
will *the answer* give him any more, or less, reason to actually further his trip to FSU..
and if so..
why would it?
I think thats the introspection you posted about riv, and that i have also mentioned many times..

listen riv, i'm not picking on you..
and  have offered you advice to get your butt on a plane long ago..
but you can ask these type of questions for a decade and
come no closer to understanding things there.
while its all well and good to do prioper research and have a strategy....
perhaps in a circumstance such as this, where 5 days there would answer completely,
what 12 months of questions here could obly give hints at..
??
a simple trip , to wet your feet, and to simply answer your curiosities interest??
 might be wotrth it for that reason alone..
isnt that trigger enough?

ok i'll answer your question.
yes, some amazingly stunning FSU women can be true sweethearts.

do RW cheerleader types have hearts of gold?
the overall truth?
as shocking as this may seem to some folks with bad experiences with "model types"
there are very few true hearts of gold anywhere on the planet..
the ones that exist  are sprinkled about pretty evenly..
 in all countries,
and you know what?
with absolutely NO regard whatsoever to outer appearence

They do exist ,
but it isnt as often to find a model with a heart of gold ,here,
 or in the FSU.
this has little to do with beautiful women being spoiled or raised differently,
and everything to do with the fact that you can probably count  on one or two hands the total number of people in your life youve known with hearts of  gold.
you can probably count in your personal experience very few amazinghly beautiful people in physical appearence.
simple odds dictate the two falling together doesnt happen often, and cut the odds in half for it being a male or female soul.
to me, your question is similar to asking..
*Are there stunning FSU women, that have one blue eye and and one brown eye .. and are left handed*
yes of course,
but no its likely not common.
its far more common to meet a  beautiful woman, that
has  normal character,, and decent regular   personalty,, but perhaps isnt mother theresa.
just like its far more common to find a plain looking person with a quite normal personality , and of average and normal character.

You have a lot of questions,(a good thing)
but  lets change things a bit,..
and let  me ask you one that  i think will help?
why not go and find out?

make a small plan of course,..
but no matter the outcome it certainly would not be a waste of time.. it would answer your question and curiosity.
 and you'd  be no worse for it?
as long as you kept your wits about you, which you seem to do well.

anyway on the inner and outer beauty thing..
all my lomg BS post aside LOL
i always find it amazingly unfair to physically attractive women to
think inner character has anything to do with outward appearence?
and the implication that they may often have less because of simply how they look. 
or if someone is AMAZED that a beautiful woman is also beaiutiful inside.
no one would think to do this based on hair color, skin color ot height..
but combine that with features moved a millimeter here or there and it becomes common place,,
and a  ridiculas double standard.

the ugly truth?
there are plenty of very high maintence , poor character, and bad personalioty  , UNATTRACTIVE women (and men)
they out number the attractiove ones by far..
thats just basic math and human nature..

 

[timothe]

Now I know I found the right place.  I've seen AJ pontificate for over 20 single sentence paragraphs.   

[catzenmouse]

AJ,

 Right on the money with that post. That is the big truth here. Go and really find out. Or, sit here and read about it for another year. Which one is reality and which one is fantasy?

Ken

[I/O]

Topically enough it was a Russian philosopher or the early to mid 1800's "Hezern" (Spelling..??) who said "A thought without an action is a dream".

it sounds like KenC's story of dating plenty of AW and only by happenstance, discovering Lena

Dan, I understand the point you are trying to make, BUT nobody here has "Just Happened" to meet their now wife or partner or fiance/ee.  I have seen this claimed so many times and frankly, it is nonsense.

In some form or another, everyone conciously put themselves in a position to at least allow or more likely encourage it to occur.  I have never been a subsciber to the "It just happened" club and never will be.  KenC was looking for something better or different and discovered during that process, his now wife.  It didn't "Just Happen". 

I could beat my chest and say "I just Happened to discover my now fiancee" because she happened to say hello to me first, but it is guilding the lilly at best, because had I not put myself in a position where that could occur, it would never have "Just happened". 

As to Rivardco, I have been rather impressed by much of his approach to this process and a somewhat sober attitude to research, but more recently I have begun to wonder if it is not time for him to "Put Up or Shut up" so to say.  I think we all reached the point at some stage where we had to make that decision. Hopefully Rivardco won't slide past the point where he can make that decision as we see so many do.

I/O

[IAmZon]

Thank you all for your input.

AJ - JB singled you out as a good looking AM that is capable of winning the heart of a good looking RW.  As soon as I read this, I though ... ya, but he seems very cool too.  The kind of guy that a women is likely to be attracted to MORE as she gets to know him, not LESS. You recent photos at work sorta confirm this.  Rough day at the office?

For men, we are lucky!  We don't have to be really handsome; just not ugly:)  So much else depends on charisma and status, in all its forms - not just money.

And just a little more disclosure about me seems necessary:

Over the last 6 months, I have dated three girls from the FSU.  I have actually spent more than 18 full days in the company of women from the FSU, 24 /7. There has been the chase, familiarity, romance, and friendship.  All of the issues that are discussed here, I have seen, felt, and tasted, first hand.

This weekend I am going to meet another girl that I am interested in.  Importantly, these associations have arisen naturally, "you would love my firend."  "I sent her your pictures, she would like to meet you."  Emails, phone calls ... sound familiar?

All of these are long distance relationship.  A two hour plane ride.  Not LONG distance - half way round the world. (that is the reason I have not posted TRs)

It was by chance and natural that I met FSU women in the US.  Once you meet several, you learn there are alot of them!  These are mostly students.  Which means they are young, smart, and aspire to a better life.  (I love that most of all)

Honestly, if the rest of the world did not exist, I think the dating pool I have located is big enough for me to find what I seek.  But the world is bigger.  So, while I continue living the life that chance has shown me ... I continue to wonder what is on the other side of the mountain.

In addition to that, my business interest have taken me to the Caribbean and South America.  If there has been one thing that has changed my internal thinking - at least for the short term, it is trips to DR and other countires in South America.  Guys, if you want to know what it is like to be a rock star, PM me.  I will have to spend a lot of time travelling over the next 3 - 4 months to secure smooth operations.  I am happy with the requirements:) Yet, again, I wonder what is on the other side of the mountain...

Also, for those who may have missed this.  I was in one, committed, and solitary relationship for 13 years.  We had difficulties for the last two, but we only really separated 10 months ago.  This separation is something I wanted.  She did not want to have kids. However, it did not make such a change easy.  We still see each other often as we jointly have business interests.

Over the past year, I have not felt completely myself. too  much scotch, too fragile, too freaked out.  I am almost better now; still need a couple months, however.

I AM looking forward to starting a family.  But I am very logically and with great speed regaining my balance as a "single guy."  I am more than curious, I/O.  I love the sense of family that is in the women I have meet from the FSU.  There is NO "role confusion" as with the case in AW.  I can see how easy it is to embrace and never let go.  It feels different. I feels right.

I have been invited by my new friends (all girls) from the FSU to travel with them back to their homes during the summer.  I am inclined to by-pass the agency thing, and go with them on a vacation.  See what happens.

Thanks again for your comments.

My name is Tim

[Mir]

Are you saying you have been romantically involved with a few FSU women who are also friends to each other?

What was lacking in the girls you have dated so far that made you drop them and keep looking?

[IAmZon]

Mir wrote: "Are you saying you have been romantically involved with a few FSU women who are also friends to each other?"

Yes. Friends, or friends of friends.  Good, old fashion networking.

Mir wrote: "What was lacking in the girls you have dated so far that made you drop them and keep looking?"

Who said I dropped them?  The first - and my favorite - dropped me:)  It is OK though.  If I have ever loved a girl as a friend, it is her.  She is very sexy, and very social, and very independent ...  I will not allow myself to consider her seriously any more.  Surely, she could break my heart in two.

The second,  very sweet, very smart.  She was just getting over a break-up.  She wanted a commitment too early.  Nope (She is now married; after only 4 months)

The third, nice ... but no fire works.

The forth don't know yet.

[jb]

I'm sorry, rivardco, after this I promise not to respond to your posts anymore. 

In your early posts you were just too slick, so many silly questions, too which you already had a glib answer.  In other words, you already basically knew the answer before you asked the question.  I don't like being tested.  And that's what I perceived you were doing.  It turned me off towards you.

Maybe I was wrong, but you appeared to be a snake oil merchant, and I don't care for that BS, used car salesman approach, to finding a FSU woman to marry mentality.

You may do as you wish, I won't bother you again.

[IAmZon]

JB -  More than I want to admit, I WANTED for the agency myth to be true. 

You more than anyone else made me face the fact that I was being seduced by the gloss, not the reality.  I have greatly re-adjusted my thinking through the process. So, in the end, I am in debt to you.

I have other friends, JB (ironically from TX and OK)  that yell and scream at me "stop being a salesman!"  I am, however.  It is my job. It is no wonder that it leaves its mark on me.

So, salesmen speak ... being too glib ... appearing insincere ... are all by products of begin able to meet 1,000 people in a single day, remember almost all there names, and making them remember me as the guy that said x,y, or z - and looked them straight in the eye.

As my journey continues, the content of my posts will move more to your liking, I am sure.  Certainly, I would like for you to contribute when your thoughts are applicable.