Desperate or not? FSU women

[Photo Guy]

I just read a post by Kuna, saying these women are generally not desperate.
RWD members- what are your experiences?

I think some of the women there are desperate. That's my general impression.
I think some of them want to latch onto any foreign guy who is halfway decent.
What motivates their desperation? She may be tired of living with her parents.
She may hate her job. She may imagine a bucolic world on the other side of
the pond. ...any number of reasons for wanting to begin a new life
in the West.

I think most 'desperate' women do not show their desperation to
you in an overt way. Just like ANY woman, she will show you her
good side during the dating process- that's only natural. (you'll do that too) 
She may have valid reasons for feeling a degree of desperation. Maybe her
ex-husband is doing his best to ruin her life, so she wants to escape.

She may
tell you that you are a fantastic intelligent gentleman, while giving you the
best sex she can.  If your ego is huge, you will accept her praise
as the acceptable truth.  If she acts like she is in love with you
in just a few days, you might want to maintain some emotional
distance, rather than falling for her artful seduction.  Putting
cultural differences aside, women are women. So, compare how she
behaves, with your knowledge of women back at home- how they behave
in the first weeks of dating.
(don't get me wrong, the cultural differences are important to me too)

If she seduces you in a short amount of time, this could be a woman
who is desperate to find a foreign mate.  I'm a guy who actually believes in
'love at first sight', so I think it can be a major task to differentiate between
that phenomenon and the 'desperate woman' phenomenon, especially
when the woman you are dating is very intelligent.

If she is an intelligent artist, she might be able to seduce you
without you even seeing it coming. She will let you get under her skin
and vice versa, in a very smooth way.  When a stupid woman tries
that approach, it should be obvious - you'll see the incongruities,
and the insincerity. Be careful, there are some desperate women
out there...

[ScottinCrimea]

In all of my time living here in Ukraine, I have yet to meet one of these "desperate" women.  I'm sure there are some out there, but probably not so many as some might believe.  In fact, every time I have mentioned to any younger woman that I might be able to find an American boyfriend, they have replied that they already have a boyfriend or are not interested.  Those older than 35, will maybe express an interest but only in finding a companion and would actually balk at the idea of having to move to America.
     One confusion might be rapidity with which women here "fall in love".  Most here date with the intention of getting married.  Once they find someone who they like with a similar goal, the dating is a fairly short process. They tend to live life more in the present so they sleep with someone more quickly than is typical in the West and they marry more quickly than what is typical in the West.  This doesn't mean they are desperate, only they are following a dating pattern more typical here.

[William3rd]

And the flip side thread would be DESPERATE OR NOT? USA men. 

[LEGAL]

Every woman who made up her mind, to leave her family, friends and country is  desperate woman  
A despair of every desperate woman has own reasons.
One woman looking at hard life of parents tries to change her life to be better but she has despaired to do it in her country. Other woman has despaired to find her love and her helpmate in her country and other woman just is career oriented woman and she has her desperate attempts to build her career outside her country.

Reasons of despair of every desperate woman depends on her age, intellect, vital interests, priorities and so on.

I guess we have different interpretation of word "desperate"  

Olga.

[ScottinCrimea]

So if we further refine your difinition, anyone who moves out of their parents' home to get married or who moves to another city or state can be considered desperate.  I guess I qualify as a desperate man because I chose to move to Ukraine to live with my wife rather than asking her to move to the US to live with me. Nice to know my wife isn't considered desperate by your definition.  She'll appreciate it when I tell her.

[LEGAL]

I guess we have different interpretation of word "desperate"  

In Russia the word "desperate" can mean "foolhardy person", "desperate plight", "reckless act", " ghastly weather"  and the "reckless act" can stand for "courageous act" as "foolhardy person" can stand for "brave person"

Olga.

[Kuna]

Every woman who made up her mind, to leave her family, friends and country is  desperate woman  
A despair of every desperate woman has own reasons.
One woman looking at hard life of parents tries to change her life to be better but she has despaired to do it in her country. Other woman has despaired to find her love and her helpmate in her country and other woman just is career oriented woman and she has her desperate attempts to build her career outside her country.

Reasons of despair of every desperate woman depends on her age, intellect, vital interests, priorities and so on.

I guess we have different interpretation of word "desperate"  

Olga.

Olga... I think the definition is important.  I would regard a woman who'd determined to leave her country as DETERMINED but possible not desperate.  My girl doesn't want to leave Ukraine and we've talked about it a few times.  She's asked me if I would immigrate and I've been honest... It's possible BUT I think Australia would be a better place to raise children. I don't see her as desperate but rather I see a real determination in the goals she has.

Just my thoughts...

[Muj]

I agree, determined a better description .

[LEGAL]

Olga... I think the definition is important.  I would regard a woman who'd determined to leave her country as DETERMINED but possible not desperate.  My girl doesn't want to leave Ukraine and we've talked about it a few times.  She's asked me if I would immigrate and I've been honest... It's possible BUT I think Australia would be a better place to raise children. I don't see her as desperate but rather I see a real determination in the goals she has.

Just my thoughts...

Kuna,
did you ask your girl why she is looking for foreign husband? What does she wants to get from her future foreign husband?

I guess we have different interpretation of word "desperate"  


Desperate woman is not so bad woman. She has enough courage and determination to change something in her life.
Desperate woman is ready to devote her life protecting what she loves.
Desperate women devoted their life in the Great War.

What is a motivation of desperate woman? What is ways desperate woman uses to get what she wants? I think it is important.

[I/O]

P/G I can't say I have ever met any lady in any area of the FSU that I could actually term as desparate to get out.  I exploded that myth well before I ever came near any discussion boards and actually before I had even heard much comment in that respect.

I just don't buy into the desparation to get out thing at all.  Determined, maybe.  Why?  Variaty of reasons.  Certainly economics are a large player.  Wider choice of potential partners, maybe.  What I have noticed in certain areas, is a certain desparation or frustration within the lifestyle which can be driven by many things, not only economics.  From that I have seen, a certain ruthlesness has develped among some and they can be quite dangerous.

These people are actually far from desparate and they have learned to utilise all the sucker sympathies of others to get what they want.  You'll find this type of person right next door at home, the difficulty in this pursuit is that most of us know little to nothing of language or culture and therefore some do not spot it until it is too late or at least has cost a great deal of time and emotions.

There is a fine line between needy and greedy, either way, a person who exibits these traits won't make a good partner.  That goes for both men and women.  The one you need is the one who doesn't need you.

FWIW

I/O

[LEGAL]

Despair is just temporary state of soul 

[Kuna]

Kuna,
did you ask your girl why she is looking for foreign husband? What does she wants to get from her future foreign husband?

Olga...

We did talk about it in depth and we were asking each other similar questions about each others motivations. She was quite adamant that she wanted to understand why I was looking to Ukraine too.

She is a little different because she spent two years in Germany so she's had the chance to compare men at home and men from different cultures.

When I asked her the "why" question she said she didn't like how local men talked to her.  I thought this was a strange answer but as we discussed it we got to the root of her motivation.

What she doesn't like is the way that men feel that a wife is an entitlement... and she thinks it will be difficult to find a man that treats her as an equal.  She cited some married couples she knows that have strong balanced relationships, and said that she wants a relationship like that.  In her "circle" at home she hasn't found anyone she would be confident enough to marry and have children with. Her workplace is basically all women... she tends not to go out and socialise except for visiting friends and having friends visit her and I guess she doesn't have many opportunities to meet a wide variety of men.

What she's seeking from a future relationship (not husband) is mutual respect and a loving and supportive environment where children can prosper.

As I was leading to earlier she is quote determined to find the right man to build a family with but she's not desperate.  Her determination also isn't focused on leaving Ukraine.  In her perfect world she'd find the right man (no matter where he is from) and they would settle in Dnepropetrovsk.

Kuna

[jb]

Desperate is definitely a state of mind.  There are desperate men in the USA who hope women in the FSU are equally desperate,,, and there are desperate women in the FSU who are not quite that desperate... It all depends on which side of the fence you are on.

If you are a loser, don't expect any FSU ladies to come to your rescue.  Finding a wife in Russia will not cure your ills.

[LEGAL]

When I asked her the "why" question she said she didn't like how local men talked to her. 
What she doesn't like is the way that men feel that a wife is an entitlement... and she thinks it will be difficult to find a man that treats her as an equal. 
Kuna

It is all right.
Woman has lost her hope "to find a man that treats her as an equal" in her area.  When person loses a hope this person is  on the verge of despair  or this person has despaired,  consequently this person is desperate person... and tries to find the best determination of problem   

I think there is some part of logic  ???

Olga
 

[Kuna]

It is all right.
Woman has lost her hope "to find a man that treats her as an equal" in her area.  When person loses a hope this person is  on the verge of despair  or this person has despaired,  consequently this person is desperate person... and tries to find the best determination of problem   

I think there is some part of logic  ???

Olga

hahahaha... Olga,  this is a public forum so we all get to put our opinions forward.  I respect your opinions but I still think something is "lost in translation" here though...   

I'm not sure about others but the strength of the word "desperate" suggests a person must do something as opposed to a person who is determined where they MAY do something.

I don't think my girl has made her mind up at all about the possibility of marrying me and moving to Oz but I think she would consider it.  A desperate person will do anything to "get out"... a determined person wouldn't.

It's a perspective thing though.  Your desperation may be someone elses determination.   ???

Kuna

[LEGAL]

I still think something is "lost in translation" here though...   

I'm not sure about others but the strength of the word "desperate" suggests a person must do something as opposed to a person who is determined where they MAY do something.

One way or another a determinations of desperate bitch and  desperate decent woman are different... I think    ???

Olga

[Kuna]

One way or another a determinations of desperate bitch and  desperate decent woman are different... I think    ???

Olga

Olga,

Agreed! I've got to say that neither of the girls I met, seemed "desperate" at all.  Perhaps it was the way I wrote letters and qualified who I wanted to meet because I automatically "disengaged" with any girl that appeared too keen - too early.  It was important for me to find someone with a level head and a stable life already, and Ms D certainly is that.

I deliberately looked for this type of girl because I believe those that are desperate are high risk.. and that includes desperate girls at home.

I think a lot of the hype surrounding RW tries to convince men that the women in the FSU are desperate and therefore drawing more desperate western men into the search.

If the marketing by the agencies told the truth I think fewer men would become involved in this journey... but that would be bad business for the agencies.  They NEED more men searching to generate revenue and therefore they NEED to convince more men they'll be successful.  I think very few "marriage professionals" could care less about the quality of the people in the search and therefore we sometimes see a dreadful standard being set for the men, and perhaps the end result is scammers and scamming opportunities by the "women".

Anyway... desperate or determined... I guess there will be men out there searching for both types.  those that are not up to the challenge may think desperate is the best match for them... I'm glad I met someone that I consider as an equal partner.

Kuna

[DKMM]

We have a winner here from Kuna:

"What she doesn't like is the way that men feel that a wife is an entitlement...  she thinks it will be difficult to find a man that treats her as an equal.  She cited some married couples she knows that have strong balanced relationships, and said that she wants a relationship like that.  In her "circle" at home she hasn't found anyone she would be confident enough to marry and have children with. Her workplace is basically all women..."

This is what I'm finding in about 80% of the girls I've met in person or over the internet.

I think its driven by the approach (stereotype perhaps?) Western men take towards their spouses.  We support them, encourage them to pursue their career goals, have career goals of our own, treat them as an equal partner in life etc..  This isn't about being the rich foreigner breaking a girl out of poverty prison.  Lots of other factors too, but I believe the main one is the one here.

[Kuna]

DKMM,

Thanks for declaring my ramblings a "winner". 

Seriously though... I've often read (even in here) that FSUW only want to marry abroad to get a better life.  First of all, I don't see anything wrong with that, but I'm also concerned that some men think "a better life" relates to money.

Ms D earns a modest wage and has little left over at the end of each month. She really loves her job though and has told me she can live comfortably if she maintains her current lifestyle.  What she seeks isn't more money, it's a better future, and the style and constitution of our relationship is most important to her.

I am certain there are many other girls like her and I think the key for men like us is to find a girl like Ms D.  Any women (from FSU or our home countries) that marry purely for money or increased social status present a big risk for us.

I think it's important to let "men like us" know before they travel to FSU that their money isn't respected by good women.  Their personal qualities are.  Of course everyone wants financial security but if they think their nationality or bank account is enough to build a happy relationship they'll be sorely surprised.

Again, it comes back to looking at ourselves, and our readiness and suitability for a relationship. If we're ready and capable we'll be successful.  If we're not we might find a wife, but in my mind that is not the point of success. The point of success is when we're in a sustainable and mutually harmonious marriage.

Kuna

[vwrw]

I absolutely agree with JB - desperation is a state of mind.
One is getting to be desperate if the reality and the perspectives she/he has do not satisfy him/her. He/she is looking for an appropriated solution what could change his/her situation. As only the solution is found, desperation disappears. 

[LEGAL]

I was reading some articles...
German man marred Russian woman- alcoholic. I think alcoholism is one of types of desperation... I could not find a fact in a article  - did he know about her problem or not? But this man did not leave her. He put much effort, energy and money to fix her problem. He has found the purport of his life to save her...

Olga.

[IAmZon]

Kuna - "Anyway... desperate or determined..."

I have another "D" that factors into the perception of the first two: "Deliberate"

Because of the framework of the introductions (Elana's; agency, other) the normal time for deliberation in so accelerated, it blurs real world norms.  Two can meet, exchange letters, telephone calls with serious interest being considered in the background of two minds within weeks, even days!

If your filter is set too high, you may make a mistake.  If your filter is set to low, you can waste time.

Again, this is a costly endeavour.

[Photo Guy]

ужасный, отчаянный

   1. Having lost all hope; despairing.
   2. Marked by, arising from, or showing despair: the desperate look of hunger; a desperate cry for help.
   3. Reckless or violent because of despair: a desperate criminal.
   4. Undertaken out of extreme urgency or as a last resort: a desperate attempt to save the family business.
   5. Nearly hopeless; critical: a desperate illness; a desperate situation.
   6. Suffering or driven by great need or distress: desperate for recognition.
   7. Extremely intense: felt a desperate urge to tell the truth.

I see I've made a mistake- I was not implying that most RW are desperate.
I was just countering the notion that none of them are desperate.
And I am no way saying that your gal was or is desperate.
I think that in many cases, the desperation is completely understandable.
The conditions that cause desperation can be found anywhere in
the world.   ...and no, I am not a desperate type and either was Larisa.
If you go there and meet 10 women, how many do think would be
desperate to find a foreign husband and begin a new life in the
land of 'plenty'? One? Five?

[LEGAL]

When I was watching the video that Bruno posted...
http://video.google.nl/vi...docid=8793717157242167855

I was thinking how much a woman can be desperate or despaired by dancing in front of men trying to show her body and trying to be better than other women. Men just try to get more phone numbers of women taking  an all-round view of them and  comparing.


Taking part in such "party" I really would feel like exhibition horse  
My female self-respect never let me to do such things...

Olga.

[groovlstk]

The word "desperate" is very strong, but I think it applies to anyone (woman or man) who marries to escape an unpleasant situation, be it a woman enduring a life of poverty and hardship or a lonely man who is rejected by his peers and sees marriage to an FSU woman as a cure-all tonic.

To qualify "desperate" in reference to women, I don't mean that a desperate woman will throw herself at the feet of the first foreign suitor who can give her an easier life. Most of the women I met whom I'd consider desperate trusted the men they married and genuinely hoped that, as they got to know him better after arriving in the US (don't mean to cut out the rest of the world, just that my personal experience was with women who arrived in the US on K1s or K3s and later divorced), they'd fall in love.

The common denominator that all these unions have is that at least one party doesn't love the other, and both essentially choose to marry a stranger.