So IT IS the youth (and the beauty)

[vwrw]

Form Mspanky:
When you truly love someone, their value is their heart and in the way they make you feel. Not how young they are, or how much money they can contribute to the household.

Yeah.
And if the someone you truly love and who truly loves you, as annex to her wonderful heart has fluent English and good income, altogether it makes her to be huge reward.

[Mir]

DKMM

It was not in responce to any of your posts.
If you are in 20s and looking for a girl in 20s that the norm, although it still raises the question why you are looking in FSU?
The question was is the possibility of finding a much younger woman the reason why men go looking in FSU?
Why is it that men who look for a wife in FSU in the majority of cases end up with women who are much younger then them? Is it because they went looking for a much younger woman in the first place or they really had no other options?
In other words is it true that a man who tries to find a wife in FSU will only find women 20-30 years old regardless of his age?

[Elen]

Why is it that men who look for a wife in FSU in the majority of cases end up with women who are much younger then them? Is it because they went looking for a much younger woman in the first place or they really had no other options?
In other words is it true that a man who tries to find a wife in FSU will only find women 20-30 years old regardless of his age?

Come on HOW could it be that they " have no other option"  as there are no older single women in FSu but only 20 years olds.  They just have a choice  here which they do even if firstly they  had some other intentions ( because those intentions were based at reality avalable for them back in home  )
 It's rather FSU young women have not much choice because those who contact them in dating agencies and sites are young only "in heat" in vast majority
Ask Rwind I think he is already tired to convince those young in heart boys to pick up somebody close to their ages for their own sake

[vwrw]

Kuna,
You cannot show me what I asked you only because I have not said those.
The conclusions you have done ARE YOUR conclusions which even are not based.

As about red flag. Last 3 years many women I know have asked me – “why despite on you are already 24-27 y.o. you still are admired by men”. I always answered the same- “I have never met a man who is not worthy of admiration”. Now I know why I was so much lucky. Obviously, the men saw me as I am huge red flag and did not come up to me. 

[Mir]

'As about red flag. Last 3 years many women I know have asked me – “why despite on you are already 24-27 y.o. you still are admired by men”. I always answered the same- “I have never met a man who is not worthy of admiration”. Now I know why I was so much lucky. Obviously, the men saw me as I am huge red flag and did not come up to me. '

Are you saying that men did not show interest in you?

[Kuna]

Kuna,
You cannot show me what I asked you only because I have not said those.
The conclusions you have done ARE YOUR conclusions which even are not based.

vwrw,

Forgive me for the following post but you asked me to justify a previous comments.  Yes, I've come to conclusions after reading your posts... this is how...

You made the following post:
After reading posts on RWD I have conclusions - those men who are older 40 y.o. contemplate:
You made the following post:
1.   Wife who is the same age = risk is low but reward is little also.
2.   Wife who is much younger = risk is high but reward is huge.
Some men (I call them “rescuers”) choose low risk.
Some men (I call them “businessmen”) choose huge reward.
BUT there is one exception - JB who took low risk but received huge reward. I call him - Lucky guy! 
My thougths: I can only assume this post was subconsciously justifying a huge age gap in your own relationship. I gave, and still give you, the benefit of the doubt over the age gap that you and Turbo represent, but I can't excuse you for your next few posts.

By the way... you're reference to "rescuers" for some men because they choose to marry someone "age appropriate" is offensive to me... and calling a man "Businessman" because he marries a young girl when he is an old man is far too flattering for most men that would make such a decision.  Most wise businessmen would be scared off by the risks.

Large age gaps CAN work.. but they have to be build on genuine emotional connections, not business, fantasy or measurements of either partners financial contributions!

The next post I've pasted below is where you go from confusing concepts to offensive swipes. You said:
Little reward wife – Legal’s Olga. Huge reward wife – JB’s wife. Both women are clever, beautiful and so on. Both women love their husbands. BUT, if you compared possibilities of these women, what they can do for their husbands you would see why one of them is little reward and other is huge reward.
My thougths: I guess it depends on what teh husband wants them to do huh?  I would think most succssful relationships are based on each partner contributing to the emotional and physical wellness of the relationship not the potential for "huge reward" as you explain it later.

You then responded to one of mir's questions with:
Mir, what can healthy ones do that almost deaf and speechless ones cannot do? What can employed women do that unemployed women cannot do? 
JB’s wife can do everything what Legal’s wife does and plus a lot things more… so as JB’s wife has perfect English and has good job, huh?
My thougths: Again, this depends on what each partner expects of each other.  Obviously you don't have the same relationship motivations as Olga and Legal or you wouldn't be referring to her as a "Little Reward Wife".  It's abhorant in my mind... but maybe that's just my twisted view of a good relationship.

You then responded to a statement from CaptB by saying:
25 y. o. woman always is higher risk than 55 y. o. woman even if they both are real and right for a man.
My father has two cars one of them is new and expensive other is old and now it cost almost nothing. He loves both of these cars by different reasons and he would be equally upset if one of the cars is stolen. There was an attempt to steal new one and never was an attempt to steal old one. I do not understand why people do not want to steal the old car in the past if they BOTH have huge value FOR my father?
Of course, woman is not a car and one cannot steal her without her permit. But there will be a lot more attempts to “steal” the excellent 25 y. o. woman than the excellent 55 y. o. woman. The more attempts are the more risk is that one of the attempts will be successful.
Capt B, you see what I want to bring to you. The risk depends on not only either woman is right or wrong FOR you but also how many men agree with you. 
My thougths: You're car analogy is a strange one because when talking about people.  You even say a woman is not a car but you go on to say "The more attempts are the more risk is that one of the attempts will be successful".  See, faithfullness in a relationship has nothing to do with the number of opportunities for infidelity that are presented to a partner.  It is entirely dependant on the integrity of the person.  If you want me to spell it out a person who loves for the right reasons will NEVER commit adultery because their emotional bond is based on respect, trust, honesty and genuine commitment.  A relationship based on "Little Value" or "Great Value" contributions seems somewhat shallow to me.

In a response to Legal you said:
Charity – giving up money without waiting something in return. (Apart from a place in paradise)
Do I need to explain what the Investment is?
My thougths: Oh, I think we know what investments you're talking about!   

and then also to Legal you said:
often heard words on RWD – never put all eggs in one bag.
Lucky JB stands with two bags in one he has his business in other he has his huge reward wife. If he loses one bag it is not a catastrophe his wife will provide him.
If Legal loses his bag… who will provide him and the “charity” he must do. 
In other words Legal’s family is 1 + 0,5 = 1,5. JB’s family is 1+1=2. Can you see difference?

Huge reward wife = Right woman with fluent English and with good job in America. (or at least she is able to find a good job if there is a need)
Little reward wife = Right woman But English is not good enough to be able to find job if there is a need.
My thougths:     This is abhorant to me.  jb has two bags?  His business and his wife?  Again you're to people as possessions. 

Actually, when I read further into your comment maybe the career and money earning ability is more important to you than it is to your contributions to the family if needed.  I can understand a woman ensuring she can support herself if needed, but I still see no need to denegrate another person so viciously.

Maybe it's typical Russian thinking but it's all a bit bizzare to me.

and then again in response to a question from Legal you said:
LOL…you are wrong. Simply being 0,5 is not happiness for me. And as I have noticed most guys encourage their wives to become 1 in their country. Do you guess why it is so? Maybe because to them a happiness is living with loving 1, not with loving 0.5
My thougths: I guess you're talking about money and career again.     I can't comment on what most men do but I know I already think of my girl as an equal even before we've made THE big decision.  When we started discussing possible paths we will take I told her she would be free to choose what she does if she comes to Australia.  If she wants to be a fulltime mother then I'm happy with that... we don't need the money.  If she wants to return to University and update her credentials she can do that...  it would be a good way to meet new people and it would prepare her for a career.  If she wanted to take a job she could... it would give her broader interests.  If she wanted to start a business she could...  it would be wonderful if a new business required travel to Europe so she could visit home more frequently. The choice of lifestyle is hers as long as it still fits our agreed goals for our relationship...

If you're curious about her answer feel free to ask... it was a BIG reason for my growing respect for her at the time.

and in response to Olga when she was discussing her goal of having a loving relationship... (which she has built with Legal) you said:Of course, you only forgot to add that the reason why cast your glance abroad during seeking for high- spiritual  man is Russian high- spiritual  man is poor. And they have no money to be “rescuers” for a high- spiritual lonely woman who is afraid of coming old age in poverty.
My thougths: As I understand it Olga had a fascinating job with a varied and full social life before bl00dy Legal went and dragged her to the damn USA.     I hardly think she as sitting around worrying about her old age... Were you?

To Joty when he sugested you owed Olga an apology you said:
Why? …maybe due to I said Olga is beautiful, clever and has other virtues…or maybe due to I hint she has not fluent English and has not own income…But in both cases I said truth.
My thougths:     Money again!

To Mspanky who asked if marrying an old man would be a low risk you said:
Marrying “old man” is taking huge risk for young woman. She has less worldliness… he may lose interest to her.
My thougths: HAHAHAHA... this is hilarious!  How many times does an old man lose interest in a young girl because she lacks worldliness?  I think it's more likely the young girl will reach her "32nd pickup attempt quota" and feel justified to be unfaithful.  She's not a car, but she's only human right?

I don't want to criticise you because I think we all have the right to be motivated by what ever turns us on but I think your slurs about Olga have exposed a side of you I hadn't seen before.  Either Turbo has seen this and accepts it as attractive or he too might be a little surprised.

Little Reward Wife or Large Reward Wife is just a terrible concept...  What ever happened to emotional love and trust?

vwrw, l until this thread I would never have believed that your thinking and judgement of people was so focused on money and career abilities. I would like to think there is something lost in translation but you insist that you meant what you said????

I wish you and Turbo good luck, but I will repeat... RED FLAG - RED FLAG

Kuna

[jb]

It's nice to know that my wife is a huge reward wife.  But then I already knew that.

Fortunately it isn't because she earns money for the household, I have made plenty of money, and continue to do so if I work a few jobs each year.  You know that USCIS $16,000 annual income requirement to bring a wife over?  I make more than that in a month.  As long as oil prices remain high, my skills will be in demand.

As far as my wife's income is concerned, teachers are not that highly paid.  While I would never denigrate honestly earned income, I wouldn't want to have to live on her salary.

[Son of Clyde]

In countries where all people do not have a chance at wealth it is probably normal for a young (and not so young) woman to be focused on monetary things. Just because people are always dressed nice in public does not by any means indicate they are wealthy. The Russian/Ukrainian people are a proud people.
I am trying to indicate that when you are not wealthy it is normal to focus somewhat on having a relationship and some material posessions (house, car etc). Even AW think about the nice home with the white picket fence. A RW does not want to move to the US to enter into a situation worse than the one in her own country.
Do not forget there is probably no such thing as a "middle class" in the FSU. Kuna you are thinking gold digger? I do not see this at all.

[Turboguy]

Kuna, Legal, et al.

Guys, I know you think I should be quivering in my WalMart shoes and dodging swiftly as the red flags go flying rapidly everywhere over my head but I am sorry, I am just laughing my A$$ off over this thread and where it has gone.  Not at VWRW at all, just over where it has gone. 

As far as trying to justify her comments, NO.  If I think she meant to say something that was different than a reader might assume I may try to clarify something but she is a big girl and can explain her own thinking herself.

As to the comment that this may have enlightened me to a new side of VWRW that should scare me, it does not.   There is nothing in this tread that is news to me.

VWRW is what we could call a "high achiever"  She is loaded with drive, intelligence, ambition and determination.   She has an inner need for self actualization.  To her sitting at home and being a house wife would be about the biggest failure a woman could be.   That does not mean there is anything wrong with someone who wants to sit at home and be a housewife, it is just not right for her and what she wants for her life.   She has already done well and has achieved a good degree of success in her career as it existed in Russia.   

I think her biggest fear in life is when she sees the babushkas along side the underpass with their tin cups out or selling some fish and she thinks to herself, I do not ever want to end up there.   To, me, for myself, it is not important what she accomplishes or contributes but I know for her it is extremely important.  We have had long talks about this and the plan we have is to give her as much help to be able to accomplish whatever she wants for her life.   In our case, with the age difference, it is probably the smarter way to go anyway.  Frankly, I will find it enjoyable to help her accomplish her dreams.

[jb]

T/G,

Yours will be another classic Pygmalion story.

[Son of Clyde]

Turbo,
I am sure you and VWRW will be fine.
I have learned not to take everything I read here at face value.

[Turboguy]

Thanks SOC, I never let things here bother me. 

jb, I only plan to work another 15 years.  It will sort of be fun after that when I have more time for sitting around to read the articles about VWRW on the front page of the Wall Street Journal and to see her photo on the cover of Forbes.

[groovlstk]

Do not forget there is probably no such thing as a "middle class" in the FSU. Kuna you are thinking gold digger? I do not see this at all.

How would you describe the millions of people living in Kiev, Moscow, & St. Petersburg? In Russia, at least, there is an emerging middle class that is asserting itself politically and economically.

That said, I read something interesting about Russia a few weeks ago by Thomas Friedman, a journalist I otherwise loathe for his simplistic and facile notions:

The Moscow Times recently reported that only two Russian colleges — Moscow State and St. Petersburg State — are listed among the world’s top 500 universities. When you walk down the streets in Bangalore, India’s high-tech capital, it feels as if there’s a computer school or English-language school on every street. You walk in Moscow, and it feels as if there is a new shoe store or beauty salon on every street.

[Kuna]

Kuna you are thinking gold digger? I do not see this at all.

I'm not focused on gold digger... but I AM thinking "Highly offensive" and skewed concepts about people and life.

I know what people aspire to when they come from economically challenged countries.  I've spent a fair amount of the past 15 years travelling throughout Asia on business and have met thousands of people of all different types.

I also know what the people aspired to when I was in Ukraine and I think FSUW goals are similar to other geoups of people I've met.

I don't think vwrw's goals are so peculiar but I think the language and the concepts are.

It doesn't sound right to me... but that's just me.  It's not going to affect me in the slightest!  

Kuna

[Kuna]

Turbo,

You're a big boy... You're going in with your eyes open... it's not up to me to make you quiver in your boots.

The earlier posts are highly offensive and it might be one cultural adjustments your lady might like to consider before she launches her entrepreneurial career in the USA. 

A high level of Emotional Intelligence is required in business these days if one is to be a leader. 

Kuna

[mspanky]

Form Mspanky:
are you trying to say you chose a much older man because  he is low risk and very few women will try to steal him in the U.S. ?
 From VWRW
Nope. No.
Marrying “old man” is taking huge risk for young woman. She has less worldliness… he may lose interest to her



 Well, I've always heard from women marrying a much older man is low risk as he is usually not in the most "wanted" position by the opposite sex as his young wife. Usually, it's the younger ones in these situations that somehow have the upper hand. I have seen it happen many times. The young one who is learning and getting worldlier while the older one is more set in his ways.

   Noone should assume an old man is worldly because of his age. Many people will not assume that when they see you together. If you intend to be a very successful business woman, 10 years down the line, most of your colleagues will not see your relationship as "Good business woman". They will see it as you are a rescuer having a 75 year old husband who is getting older and may have health problems as your life is just beginning. That is reality. You can spin it any way you want, but this is what will happen. Why? Because it is extremely unusual to see a successful business woman married yo a very much older man unless he is a BILLIONAIRE. That situation usually only happens with poorer,uneducated girls in desperate situation. Well. At least in the U.S. anyway. That's the truth. Don't get offended by it. Just telling you what 95% of people you meet in school and business will think of you and your relationship in the U.S.


 Belive it or not age-appropriate couples do not have such stigma in the U.S.
 

[LEGAL]

People are different in the World and have  different interests and ideals independently of their age.
The ideal of some people is a spirituality ( God,  love, kindness, happy family) and these people look at their partners as the heart and soul.

The ideal of other people is the money and career and they compare their partners and all persons around to a big bag with money, car and  stairs of their own career.

 In any event all people always seek a partner of life who is their  likeness and up to their requirements of life.

PS Right now I'm  between two choices - to help my LEGAL to make the money, get more experience of his business
 and  look after our old and sick dad; of course I choose the second.

Olga.

[Turboguy]

Nice post Mspanky.  It is too early to to to lunch and there is not enough time to start a meaningful project at work so I will discuss what you said a bit.

Well, I've always heard from women marrying a much older man is low risk as he is usually not in the most "wanted" position by the opposite sex as his young wife. Usually,

I think of the low risk part differently than you do.  Yes, there are younger guys who make good husbands.  There are also a lot of younger guys who have very high sex drives and will hop in the sack with anything they can where the older guys may still have good sex drives but have had enough life experiences that they are going to treasure a wife and if they have wild oats they have been sown and that part of life has no appeal.   Yes, I would assume that there will be fewer women making a play for an older husband than a younger one so that can come into play.  If someone wants to be unfaithful they will find someone to be unfaithful with.

They will see it as you are a rescuer having a 75 year old husband who is getting older and may have health problems as your life is just beginning..

Bear in mind that time does not stand still.  It is not just the older man that is getting older.   The woman is also getting older and in that same 10 year time she is now approaching 40

Believe it or not age-appropriate couples do not have such stigma in the U.S.

I think I have seen some posts about the acceptance of a MOB and don't recall age as part of those discussions.   So some feel there can be the stigma that you say we don't have in the US.

Don't take my comments too seriously.  I am just bored and not picking on you.   Truthfully I don't give a minutes thought to any stigma or to what anyone in my life in America feels about the course of my actions.   My friends would sure not make their decisions based on what I thought.  VWRW and I are happy together and have discussed the important parts of the age issue.  When we are together the thought that we have an age difference never enters my mind.   If it were not for RWD I would probably forget there was an age difference.   It is only discussing it here that reminds me that it exists.

Olga,  nice post and I think if you pick helping your Dad it is the wisest choice.   The only thing you said that I think there may be exceptions to is when you said. 

"In any event all people always seek a partner of life who is their  likeness and up to their requirements of life."   

I think in many cases people pick someone like themselves and in other cases pick someone who fits well with them or that they feel comfortable with.

[vwrw]

Kuna, you did not need to ask for forgiveness I am not offended :-). I am proud of I am ambitious.
From Kuna:
By the way... you're reference to "rescuers" for some men because they choose to marry someone "age appropriate" is offensive to me...

I said “rescuers” choose low risk. I never said they choose “age appropriate" partner. Simply one needs to be careful with his desires. If one wish for low risk he gets the same age partner.

From Kuna:
and calling a man "Businessman" because he marries a young girl when he is an old man is far too flattering for most men that would make such a decision.  Most wise businessmen would be scared off by the risks.

ONE of wise businessman I met here on RWD is Gator. He was not scared off by the risks during all his professional life.
 I very much admire all men who are able to overcome their fear in front of risk. If old man marries young woman it means he overcame the fear. And I very much admire all men who understand that luck is that what man does his own hands. A young little reward wife with help of her wise “businessman” can much more quickly become huge reward wife than old little reward wife. Who will employ 45 y.o. RW without education in America for a good job? 

From Kuna:
I would think most successful relationships are based on each partner contributing to the emotional and physical wellness of the relationship not the potential for "huge reward" as you explain it later.

I agreed but I do not understand why it is bad if in relationship what is based on each partner contributing to the emotional and physical wellness of the relationship   woman has potential to become huge reward.

From Kuna:
A relationship based on "Little Value" or "Great Value" contributions seems somewhat shallow to me.

As well as relationship based on “low risk” or “high risk” seems somewhat shallow to me.
All we are different. Some of us prefer partner with potential to become huge reward of course for building in relationship what are based on each partner contributing to the emotional and physical wellness of the relationship. Some of us are afraid of building relationship with partner who has potential to become huge reward.     

From Kuna:
See, faithfulness in a relationship has nothing to do with the number of opportunities for infidelity that are presented to a partner.  It is entirely dependant on the integrity of the person.  If you want me to spell it out a person who loves for the right reasons will NEVER commit adultery because their emotional bond is based on respect, trust, honesty and genuine commitment. 

Of course,…say it to the  people who get/got divorced now.     
Also, I want to add - NEVER say NEVER – wise people say.

From Kuna:
it might be one cultural adjustments your lady might like to consider before she launches her entrepreneurial career in the USA.

A cultural adjustment was main topic in last conversations between Turbo and me. And I decided to make a celebration for myself “a day of being direct” before I turn myself into being a diplomat. 

[LEGAL]

 
I think in many cases people pick someone like themselves and in other cases pick someone who fits well with them or that they feel comfortable with.

A person always feels comfortable with a person who "fits well with them" and is up to his/her requirements of life.  

Olga.

[Jooky]

Since I waded through this crap I have to say something.

The initial argument was:

1.   Wife who is the same age = risk is low but reward is little also.
2.   Wife who is much younger = risk is high but reward is huge.
Some men (I call them “rescuers”) choose low risk.
Some men (I call them “businessmen”) choose huge reward.

This implies that relative youth alone is the reward.

Then the argument went on and on to clarify that the rewards are physical and financial.

A younger wife does not inherently come with a higher earning potential.
A younger wife is not inherently beautiful.
She is simply younger and that's all.

All I see is a stubborn woman trying to justify a faulty premise. The justifications don't follow the original argument.

I'd like to add a third category of men who choose the high risk and low reward of seeking women with the shallow notions presented in the bull I just wasted my time reading.

Let's call them "suckers".

At least this thread can serve a good purpose. Everytime some clueless newbie comes here spouting off about how all Russian women are traditional, family oriented, spiritual, immaterial and blah blah blah, direct them to this thread.

[prince_alfie]

Since I waded through this crap I have to say something.

The initial argument was:

1.   Wife who is the same age = risk is low but reward is little also.
2.   Wife who is much younger = risk is high but reward is huge.
Some men (I call them “rescuers”) choose low risk.
Some men (I call them “businessmen”) choose huge reward.

This implies that relative youth alone is the reward.

Then the argument went on and on to clarify that the rewards are physical and financial.

A younger wife does not inherently come with a higher earning potential.
A younger wife is not inherently beautiful.
She is simply younger and that's all.

All I see is a stubborn woman trying to justify a faulty premise. The justifications don't follow the original argument.

I'd like to add a third category of men who choose the high risk and low reward of seeking women with the shallow notions presented in the bull I just wasted my time reading.

Let's call them "suckers".

At least this thread can serve a good purpose. Everytime some clueless newbie comes here spouting off about how all Russian women are traditional, family oriented, spiritual, immaterial and blah blah blah, direct them to this thread.

Indeed, I agree. So there isn't any difference between looking for a RW and AW in any instance

[WmGO]

Jookie, good sumnation.

It is interesting that what began as the seemingly innocuous and redundant age difference discussion led to the revealing of what is a common mentality of many if not most Russian women: a purely physicalist/materialist way of looking at life and the world and valuing things based on same. Western men beware! As Elen suggested, get to know their culture. They are products of it.

Let's be honest. Men who go overseas looking for women that are 20  or more years younger are behaving, well , let's just say abnormal and irrational (that is a nice way of putting it) . Ditto the 30 and 35 year differences but with those I have to be a little less diplomatic and just call a spade a spade - the man is just a lech. And a woman who is open to those kinds of age differences is, well, let us just say not normal. Of course, this would only be true 99.99% of the time, so please let me be spared the .001% garbage.

The bottom line is a ten year age difference is normal and common just about anywhere, even the U.S. When it comes to FSU, fifteen years is really the outer limit of rationality and reasonableness for 99.99 % of people.

When I see topics like this started it is usually for the fools, the users and the leches to chime in to justify themselves. I can hear it now, " But, but, but the .001, the .001, the .001, blah, blah, blah....." 

Of course, if it is just a marriage of convenience where an old man can get young nooky on a regular basis for a period of time and the young woman get's the opportunity to make it big on Wallstreet it is perfectly understandable.

[viking]

Is this low reward or high reward?

[Jooky]

That depends, Viking. What's that ummm, lady's income?

Definitely low risk though!