So IT IS the youth (and the beauty)

[Mir]

And zero reward as well cause the beard will be irritatingly ticklish!

Anyway one good that form all this is that Prince A has realised that there is no difference in chasing RW c/w AW so he will not go to Russia now

[viking]

Jooky

Waste Management. You know, a goomba of Tony Soprano. So, high income.

Mir

Some people like being tickled. Just depends where and with what. 

[Shadow]

When you check out many of the debates regarding dating many women, economic motives and opinion about the 'poor Russians/Ukrainians' it becomes clear what Jooky refers to.

Businessmen seek out their wife by job interviews.
Rescuers go for the worst economic situations.
Suckers do not go at all.

These forums are just a small portion of the total people involved, and those who find them in time are the better informed part. Still that is no guarantee for success.
Every man who marries feels his wife is beautiful, charming and a great person. Every man who divorces thiks his wife is a b*tch. Know that people never change, only opinions do.

[Mir]

jb wrote:

T/G,

Yours will be another classic Pygmalion story.

However Eliza rejected Higgins and married a poor young man,this does not look likely in this case.Unless you meant Virgil's Pygmalion, but that is a horrible thought to entertain!

[Turboguy]

I guess that theory is blown.  It probably would not have worked anyway since VWRW has already achieved a lot of success in Russia.

[joty]

VWRW,
Number one! Olga has very good English spends much time discussing and preparing catastrophic and wrongfull death cases with attorneys and doctors I work with on a daily basis. These are not fender benders it takes articulating skills, intelligence  and character, which Olga has and handles very well. Olga also has  proper decorum in and out of the courtroom. Again you assumed  that is the worse thing you can ever do especially in my business, or in life! Number two as far as Olga's income that is none of your business. Again you did not speak the truth! You just showed the world your true nature.

 Kuna you are right RED FLAG.   I truly feel bad Turboguy

VWRW DID YOU READ THIS?  OLGA IS HUGE REWARD, SHE SPEAKS GOOD ENGLISH, SHE WORKS WITH ATTORNEYS AND DOCTORS, WITH THE LAW OF THE USA.  IF SHE DID NOT HAVE HER HUSBAND SHE COULD MAKE HER OWN MONEY WITH HER SKILLS.  JUST ADMIT YOU MADE A MISTAKE AND APOLIGIZE TO THE LADY.  YOU ARE VERY YOUNG IN YOUR THINKING, YOU HAVE ALOT TO LEARN, AND TURBO GUY I REALLY THINK YOU BETTER SEE WHAT YOUR VWRW IS UP TO, HER THINKING I SEE RED FLAGS ALL THE WAY. 

[LEGAL]

Pygmalion story.

Look at this story like a handbook "How to turn a street girl  into a lady"

First you should to be a professor  

Olga.



 

[jb]

However Eliza rejected Higgins and married a poor young man,this does not look likely in this case.

I was thinking of the film "My Fair Lady".  Strangely, that isn't the ending I remember.  IIRC, Eliza stormed off at the behest of a young nobleman she had met at the Ascot races.  Then she returned to Henry Higgins, where her heart was, and the story had a happy ending,,, unlike the ending in Bernard Shaw's play.

I saw the Pygmalion similarities in that T/G is the old geezer who wants to turn a young Russian girl into a success story in the USA, in much the same manner as Professor Higgins tried to turn a flower seller, Eliza, into a faux Duchess.  Prof Henry Higgins succeeded,,, will T/G?

[Kuna]

No one could or should try to get reality through to Turbo because we're all free to make our own decisions BUT one might think he will return to the following statement one day and wonder why he couldn't see it at the time!

From Kuna:
See, faithfulness in a relationship has nothing to do with the number of opportunities for infidelity that are presented to a partner.  It is entirely dependant on the integrity of the person.  If you want me to spell it out a person who loves for the right reasons will NEVER commit adultery because their emotional bond is based on respect, trust, honesty and genuine commitment. 


Of course,…say it to the  people who get/got divorced now.     
Also, I want to add - NEVER say NEVER – wise people say.

Oops... that was supposed to be RED FLAG - RED FLAG

[LEGAL]

HIGGINS: “The great secret, Eliza, is not having bad manners or good manners or any other particular sort of manners, but having the same manner for all human souls: in short, behaving as if you were in Heaven, where there are no third-class carriages, and one soul is as good as another.”  (George Bernard Shaw "Pygmalion" Act IV)

Olga.

[LEGAL]

Money - Money - Money...  It's smelling like money around here isn't it?

1 + .5 = 1.5?  OH MY GOD!!!

I can smell those crisp fresh bills... can you?

DOOLITTLE:" ... Ten pounds is a lot of money: it makes a man feel prudent like; and then goodbye to happiness..." ( George Bernard Shaw "Pygmalion" Act II).

Olga.

[jb]

Olga,

I never studied theater, although I always enjoyed it... I will not take random memories from plays and films and run them here for you... You obviously know them better than I do.

Cheers.

[LEGAL]

Olga,

I never studied theater, although I always enjoyed it...
Cheers.

A wise man is able to enjoy rightly...

Olga.

[BillyB]

I think some people are taking VWRW wrong and I don't think she's a gold digger. It's normal for a woman to choose a man who established himself in life over one who still trying to find his way.

I understand what she means little reward and big reward.

If I had a choice between two women with most things being equal, I would choose the bigger reward in areas that are not equal. I would choose....

1) The woman that spoke better English over the one that spoke little English.
2) The woman that had higher education over the one that dropped out of school.
3) The woman that had a job over the one that is unemployed.
4) The woman who's profession is a doctor over the one who waitresses.
5) The woman who is ambitious over the woman who has little ambition.
6) The woman who is more beautiful over one who is less physically attractive.
7) The woman who is thinner over the one who is fatter.
The woman who could give love over the woman who wants to receive love and be spoiled like a princess.

Hopefully we have choices when we look for a mate. When we do have choices, we place value on the different abilities, physical and mental characteristics of each person we may want for a lifetime partner.

I really don't care if my fiancee works or wants to be a housewife when she's with me since she's an exceptional person in many ways. But the truth is I am happy she told me she wants higher education and a decent job over being a full time housewife.

I'm sure Olga is a wonderful person who works hard to provide for the family. If she had an extra million dollars in her pocket or the next Einstein, she would be a bigger reward for Legal.

[LEGAL]

Marriages are made in Heaven...

My Lord, how much does it cost?  ???  What is a market price?  ??? Dollars or Euro?  ???

Olga.

[Turboguy]

I think some people are taking VWRW wrong and I don't think she's a gold digger. It's normal for a woman to choose a man who established himself in life over one who still trying to find his way.

That is my opinion also Billy.  I really feel like I know her totally and she is not money oriented at all.  She does want to do something with her life and to me that is a good quality.   Despite what I said before she is not looking to be on the cover of Forbes but she would like to have a nice job that she enjoys and hopefully that allows her to feel a little independent.

[Kuna]

Billy,

Your list and my thoughts...

1) The woman that spoke better English over the one that spoke little English.
AGREED... 

2) The woman that had higher education over the one that dropped out of school.
Hmmm...  agreed within limits.  Why did she drop out of school?  Lazy?  Dreams of grandeur and too good for school?  Education is important but not a show stopper for me.

3) The woman that had a job over the one that is unemployed.
AGREED... but only because unemployed people get bored.  A job can fill a void but so can many other things.

4) The woman who's profession is a doctor over the one who waitresses.
I don't care about a womans profession.  If she's happy I'm happy!

5) The woman who is ambitious over the woman who has little ambition.
What ambitions does she hold?  That is the most important question. 

6) The woman who is more beautiful over one who is less physically attractive.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but we'll all choose what is more attractive to us.

7) The woman who is thinner over the one who is fatter.
Appropriate heigh/weight proportion for me thanks.


Ultaimtely we all choose what feels good to us.  We've all done it... You, me, turbo.  I would feel awful if I saw my girl publicly denegrating someone as "lower reward" and then trying to justify it with a whole heap of baloney!

That is my opinion also Billy.  I really feel like I know her totally and she is not money oriented at all.  She does want to do something with her life and to me that is a good quality.   Despite what I said before she is not looking to be on the cover of Forbes but she would like to have a nice job that she enjoys and hopefully that allows her to feel a little independent.

Turbo,

Was that a back-peddle of a backflip?  I saw you disagree with someone else in here at one time and respected you because you defended your position and help your own.  Not so this time huh!   ???

Enough said on this topic I think...

Kuna

[LEGAL]

The Wisdom  is an  ability to  admit one's fault,  one's foolishness and one's guilt but not to find an excuse...

Olga.

[I/O]

The Wisdom  is an  ability to  admit one's fault,  one's foolishness and one's guilt but not to find an excuse...

Olga.

Ahhhhhhhh and "The Fair Lady" also said. "Words, words, I am sick of words, SHOW me"...!!!  I supect the canvas as been prime coated and the final brush strokes will take a few years to reveal themselves clearly to all.  As always, time will be the judge.

I/O

[mspanky]

Billy,

 I'm pretty sure if your woman gained a little weight after a couple of  kids she'd still be high value to you. I'm pretty sure if she decided on a career as a school teacher(who may make less than a waitress) instead of  a big shot lawyer she'd still be high value to you. What she makes and a few pounds would not lower her value.

   If everyone thought in terms of high value and low value we would all be in trouble. I have a friend who plays major league baseball. Never a very popular player, but popular none the less. He always makes just under 1 mil a year. He got traded and making half that. His wife was walking around acting like some sort of Saint, because she stuck with him ,even though he is making much less than he used to when she met and married him.. She talks about how she in entitled to all of the best things in life and her husband cannot give it to her and is jealous of other sports wives with really big income guys. She gets on my last nerve as she actually has stated in front of people  he will never get a woman hotter than her!!

    Frankly, I think she is a huge risk with little return. There is no genuine love there, but for what he can bring home. Some women marry big earners because they feel he is a high reward. But marrying for reasons like that guarentee there will be trouble when big reward earner gets downgraded at work and is not making half as much as she thought he would be.

[vwrw]

My conclusions from celebration “a day of being direct”
1.   Who will like or dislike one it depends on the one’s attitudes about life. Who has similar attitudes will like him. Who has different attitudes will dislike him.   
2.   I see some people condemn my attitudes about life. I have analyzed what if I had similar attitudes as the people have…what then? The picture what arose in my mind scared me. The picture – I am married decent RM (instead of happy relationship for 5 years with successful and ambitious RM). I am simply a worker (instead of being top – manager). So as my husband and I are not interested in career and we live in Russia we earn only a little money and can afford almost nothing. Especially dreadful could be my mom to need eating only potatoes because I am not able to help her with money (instead of I provide mine and partly her needs). And so on. SO, am I bad woman because of my attitudes? “Yes”- some of you say. I am glad that I am red flag for these people. It is better for me to be the red flag for these people than to live into the picture.
3.   9 years ago, in my life there were similar events as I have now. The people I very much liked said me – “you have made silly solutions; you will regret about it later”. 6 years later the people begun to say me – “you are lucky girl”. SO, what should I do now? Maybe I should change my solutions (I mean me to refuse relationship with my man who I almost idolize only because he is much older me; to refuse my desire to be successful business woman in America) and as time goes on I will look at a successful business woman who almost idolize her loving husband and say – “she is lucky woman”. No guys… thank you for your advices. I prefer to work 24 hour per day(12 hours to achieve success in my relationship and 12 hours to achieve success in my career) as I am doing it last 9 years. Of course it is pity; I will have no time to discuss with you, people who make wise solutions. But reading this forum I already have answered the questions I had. It is appropriative time to move on.
Good luck for you and me and good bye!
P.S. Do not believe there is something impossible for you, it is lie. Everything what your imagination can picture and everything you dare to wish IS possible.

Kuna, equality between woman and man is truth, not myth. I did it   :puke:when I read YOUR attitudes about women it the thread (sorry I do not remember title of the thread) where you ask question - if there are no differences between RW and AW, your country’s women, if that is true what the heck are you doing in FSU???

VWRW, who enjoys being RED FLAG for men unworthy of her admiration.

[mspanky]

VWRW,

 By American standards most will not look at a successful business woman married to a much older man as lucky. The U.S. is unlike Russia. In fact, you may be subjected to people who have your exact attitude. They will think you either a poor girl who did not have a father, therefore married a father figure, possibly living in very poor situation back in Russia .Or a young woman no young man with high earning potential  wanted because she may have personality issues or depression issues, so she had no choice but to marry such an old man who is  years beyond his  high earning potential.  This is not what I think, but what you will be PREjudged  to be. As I've said, you will not like it when people prejudge you. TG, I do not mean to put you down. I am just using examples to show you  if you really think it would be right for people to view your relationship that way. You know in the U.S. some will view this relationship with huge suspect.
IS THAT RIGHT??? Why can't it be people choose their partner because they are high value to them. Noone else should be able to make that judgement due to age,looks or income.

  VWRW, Get ready to defend yourself a lot when you have American men and women will ask you why you are with such an older man, when there are clearly young,successful,intelligent VERy rich men all over the U.S. Or some will simply laugh behind your back.

 What will be your answer when they ask why you married a low risk man?. Please do not tell me marrying a much older man is high risk because he may get tired of your lack of worldliness. That just does not happen. Much older men usually are not the ones to leave unless they find their young wives in bed with much younger men.

[Jazzyclassy]

     Some women marry big earners because they feel he is a high reward. But marrying for reasons like that guarentee there will be trouble when big reward earner gets downgraded at work and is not making half as much as she thought he would be.        

True:)

To be completely naive and to spread a little naive pure feeling inside your worn out tired souls waiting for some dirty trick from your woman or man , just do not marry for money or for some profit , or that you can get something from her(sex , her youth and so on)  or him.Marry cos you love and care for this person , cos you got such a great friendship for her or him, marry cos you feel like you can not live without this person - well of course I know that is an ideal thing and people who can get it they are so lucky, the others marry cos of something, they have marriage of convenience - which eventually will have problems , well any marriage can have problems , just we can not prodict anything..

The main thing is get rid of the fear people have ,about what if this marriage wont live long and so on , live right now , do not live  in future and do not live in the past.

And if you want to marry for money or for sex for youth , God bless you it is your personal choice , just do not deny you married cos of this, do tell the truth to yourself  that you married cos of money and cos of youth  and sex and some position in society at least it will be honest!

Why prove  anyone in the forum that your love is so deep and you are so genuine , when you are like 25 and marrying 50 y.o man or 45 y.o man marrying 22 y.o  girl I am sorry , just kill me I will never believe that you are marrying cos you are so so much in love both of you , that is a marriage of convenience,

Yes maybe I am full of prejudice and full of these labels, but at the moment it is so hard for me to understand that those very different people , different in anything can completely fall in love and accept each other how they are, it is so hard for me to believe in this

of course there are such  genuine couples  , but I am sure they are 1 in a million, otherwise there wont be so many divorces and scammers reports in the world.

[Turboguy]

Turbo,

Was that a back-peddle of a backflip?  I saw you disagree with someone else in here at one time and respected you because you defended your position and help your own.  Not so this time huh!   ???

Kuna

I am behind VWRW totally.  I feel like I know her as well as I have ever known anyone.  Her basic premise was that youth has a value to it.   Some her seem to feel that is a lot of hogwash.   Some are more comfortable with a woman close to their own age, that is their choice and it is fine.  Still a lot of the reason men go to the FSU to find a woman is because they can find a younger and prettier woman there than they can in America.  Right or wrong there are a lot of people that feel that and that was the point she was trying to make.   I can't argue with her basic premise at all.  Those who think different on that issue in general and not in their own cases are being a little naive.  She expressed an opinion.  If someone agrees or not that is their choice.  It is why we call this a discussion forum and they are welcome to discuss their point of view.

As far as do I see red flags flying all over the place as some are indicating I should, no, not a single one.   I know VWRW.  She is not materialistic.   She cares about people and tries to be polite and tactful.  She is a very wise and intelligent person and enjoys discussing ideas and concepts.

As far as her comment about Olga, I my head is still spinning from driving 2500 miles in 2 1/2 days.   I would like to go back and reread the whole thing when I get a little more rested before I comment.  I don't question at all that Olga is a treasure and a reward for Legal and the best reward he could hope for.  It is nice they have such a good relationship on both a personal and professional level.   One way or the other I am 100% behind VWRW.  We have a relationship that is at least as good as Legals and I am proud of her and happy she is part of my life.  

At this point I was posting this and see that both MSpanky and VWRW have posted while I was writing so I will add a few more comments.

MSpanky,  It is naive to think AM don't think in terms of high value and low value.  We just don't use those words.  If you meet a gal and you think she is not as attractive as you thought from her photo or you don't have the chemistry you expected you think of her as not the right woman which is basically having low value.   If she is pretty, sexy and nice then you think of her as having high value in your search for a woman.   I do agree with your point that when you have your woman you stand by her no matter what.   You might not pick her in the first place if she had those extra pounds but you don't think less of her if she packs on a few.   I do agree with that part of what you said and all in all it was a good post.

VWRW, nice post and I agree with you.  There are some really wonderful people here but some who look for anything to criticize.   RW tend to be direct.  I think they all know that but if they can't deal with it then they are going to have  a tough time in their relationships with a RW.  

Two more posts.  I will post this and then answer the next two.

[Jazzyclassy]

        By American standards most will not look at a successful business woman married to a much older man as lucky. The U.S. is unlike Russia. In fact, you may be subjected to people who have your exact attitude. They will think you either a poor girl who did not have a father, therefore married a father figure, possibly living in very poor situation back in Russia .Or a young woman no young man with high earning potential  wanted because she may have personality issues or depression issues, so she had no choice but to marry such an old man who is  years beyond his  high earning potential.  This is not what I think, but what you will be PREjudged  to be. As I've said, you will not like it when people prejudge you. TG, I do not mean to put you down. I am just using examples to show you  if you really think it would be right for people to view your relationship that way. You know in the U.S. some will view this relationship with huge suspect.
IS THAT RIGHT??? Why can't it be people choose their partner because they are high value to them. Noone else should be able to make that judgement due to age,looks or income.

  VWRW, Get ready to defend yourself a lot when you have American men and women will ask you why you are with such an older man, when there are clearly young,successful,intelligent VERy rich men all over the U.S. Or some will simply laugh behind your back.

 What will be your answer when they ask why you married a low risk man?. Please do not tell me marrying a much older man is high risk because he may get tired of your lack of worldliness. That just does not happen. Much older men usually are not the ones to leave unless they find their young wives in bed with much younger men.   

mspanky


I also think so you spoke out what was on my mind too , I agree and am so glad that you posted this not me otherwise those people would just kill me with their authority!