So IT IS the youth (and the beauty)

[LEGAL]

(12 hours to achieve success in my relationship and 12 hours to achieve success in my career)

50% of love for husband or wife and 50% of love for career  ???

I'm for 100% of love in our relationship  

Olga.

[DKMM]

Olga,

Do you have a single younger sister or friends that are like you?  Just askin...

[Turboguy]

VWRW,

 By American standards most will not look at a successful business woman married to a much older man as lucky.

Frankly I doubt if anyone will really care and I sure don't care what they think.  As long as we feel we are happy to have each other that is all I care about.

The U.S. is unlike Russia. In fact, you may be subjected to people who have your exact attitude. They will think you either a poor girl who did not have a father, therefore married a father figure, possibly living in very poor situation back in Russia .Or a young woman no young man with high earning potential  wanted because she may have personality issues or depression issues, so she had no choice

You are blowing a lot of smoke out your posterior because what you are saying is pure speculation and I highly doubt that will happen.

but to marry such an old man who is  years beyond his  high earning potential.  This is not what I think, but what you will be PREjudged  to be. As I've said, you will not like it when people prejudge you. TG, I do not mean to put you down. I am just using examples to show you  if you really think it would be right for people to view your relationship that way. You know in the U.S. some will view this relationship with huge suspect.

Well you sure aren't puffing up my ego any Mspanky.  For one thing I don't think of myself as an old man for another what in the world do you know about my earnings potential and what has it got to do with anything.

IS THAT RIGHT??? Why can't it be people choose their partner because they are high value to them. Noone else should be able to make that judgement due to age,looks or income.

That is exactly what we have done.  Why are you trying to make judgements then?

VWRW, Get ready to defend yourself a lot when you have American men and women will ask you why you are with such an older man, when there are clearly young,successful,intelligent VERy rich men all over the U.S. Or some will simply laugh behind your back.

I have been through it with a former fiancee close to the same age and no one gave her a hard time over the age difference except here and no one will give her a hard time over it in her day to day existance here.   You are speculating and wrong.

True:)

To be completely naive and to spread a little naive pure feeling inside your worn out tired souls waiting for some dirty trick from your woman or man , just do not marry for money or for some profit , or that you can get something from her(sex , her youth and so on)  or him.Marry cos you love and care for this person , cos you got such a great friendship for her or him, marry cos you feel like you can not live without this person -

That is exactly what we are doing Jazzy.

And if you want to marry for money or for sex for youth , God bless you it is your personal choice , just do not deny you married cos of this, do tell the truth to yourself  that you married cos of money and cos of youth  and sex and some position in society at least it will be honest!

She is not interested in marrying me for money Jazzy.  I assure you of that.
Why prove  anyone in the forum that your love is so deep and you are so genuine , when you are like 25 and marrying 50 y.o man or 45 y.o man marrying 22 y.o  girl I am sorry , just kill me I will never believe that you are marrying cos you are so so much in love both of you , that is a marriage of convenience,

That is your choice Jazzy, no one is asking you to marry an older man.  

Yes maybe I am full of prejudice and full of these labels, but at the moment it is so hard for me to understand that those very different people , different in anything can completely fall in love and accept each other how they are, it is so hard for me to believe in this

You don't have to understand it Jazzy.  We have the nicest relationship either of us could ever dream of having.  

of course there are such  genuine couples  , but I am sure they are 1 in a million, otherwise there wont be so many divorces and scammers reports in the world.

That is exactly how I look at the relationship between myself and VWRW, one in a milliion.

[Mir]

Well the thread did manage to serve its purpose.
It looks like that Western men look towards FSU to find a younger and prettier women then at home. It also looks as the criteria is :the younger the better.
It also appears as the reason FSU women marry WM is due to financial resons. As vrvw writes that she might have married a RM (close to her age) but then would have eaten potatoes for the rest of her life.So marriage to a WM brings her a chance to achieve her ambitions.
I am sure there will be many who would disagree but the available evidence supports this conclusion.
The main thing is that when an WM and FSUM are entering into a relationship they understand the basis of this relationship.I feel that TG and vrvw full understand each other and I don't think that what has been written here has pooped any red flags for TG. JMHO.

There are two tragedies in life. One is not to get your heart's desire. The other is to get it.
(George Bernard Shaw, "Man and Superman" (1903), act 4)

[DKMM]

Mir, are you trying to be funny?

[Jazzyclassy]

Dear VWRW and Turboguy

Why you care so much for the others opinion , why you try to defend your love??

if you love each other, why you care so much what other people say I wonder

Live happilly and enjoy each other, do not pay attention on the other's people opinion , as you both say you are so wise and mature,

Honestly  I hardly notice this..... if you were so wise you would never even answer those  posts

And we all have own choices and views on life marriage love and so on

 I just wish you both happiness and enjoy life and do not spend so much time in the forum , defending something, which some of us wont  understand ,  maybe understand with time.....

[Turboguy]

Jazzy, that is the smartest thing you ever said.  I really was trying to do my best to not answer things in this thread.

Mir, I don't think you understand the basis of our relationship.  Do I see any red flags, not from VWRW.

DKMM, of course!

MSpanky, after more thought,  :burnedup:

VWRW, don't slam the door on your way out I am about this || close to following you out.

Hey, that was fun to get it out of my system.

[Jazzyclassy]

that is the smartest thing you ever said     

hahahaha thank you for bringing me down once again

You see I do not care much about people's opinion , call me anything you like -its forum:)

Why then you both are so offended? offended for nothing, when you bring down people they should take it as it is  and when those people tell some points to you , you show such a great offence and such a suffering. You know we all suffer here......

Why then you ever brought your relationship on wide  open public? why you pronounced to be who you are, if you take those people's comments with such offence nearly ready to leave , then you should have kept your relationship in a secret being on this forum

If you are together , you are together nobody can change it unless you want it yourself, but society is like that they do  discuss, I hate this too myself ,but it is so  hard to change the crowd

Do not be offended really  , you saw how people brought me  down and others, plus they do not know my relations , they do not know me, if they knew , they would probably  gossiped all around and judged me too , it is natural ...... that is why I will wait till I post my pic with my boy , if I ever do it here.....

[mspanky]

You know what TG,

 You are not understanding what I am posting at all. I am not saying "I" think this way. I am saying the prejudgements vwrw is making about who is high value and who is low value is thought by a lot of people and she will be subjected to some of it in the U.S. due to the large age gap.

 The word Goldigger was not meant for 2 people of like age marrying. Usually , the young girl marrying the rich young guy is seen as lucky. As she must have something very attractive to lure the type of man who can have his pick of beautiful women. But usually a much younger girl marrying a much older man with money,is concluded she is marrying him for money as he is not as verile and young as most men she can get. She is not envied by other women her age,unless he is a gazillionaire to make up for his age.

  I agree most men want a good looking young partner.  But that is usually the choice for most young women too.Youth is admired by both sexes. We cannot lie to ourselves and say only men desire a good-looking sexy partner.

   If a much older man or woman cannot see society(no talking about me) will question an almost 40 year age difference, they are not being honest with themselves. I have seen young girls look at pics of much older men and use the Phrase I would marry him if I knew he was loaded and had one foot on a banana peel, the other in the grave. This is the preconceived notion most have of why young girls marry older men.

[Makkin]

Hello,

  Thanks to JazzyClassy for being a friend to my friend. Is good to see you be thoughtful and generous with your spirit. I think we may know each other in some way but I'm not sure yet..lol

  Turbo has been very helpful to me as a new member here and I cannot put that aside. He has always helped me in any question I've asked and also offered help in areas he might think would be of interest to me.

  Not gonna be a winner here unless everybody wins and the loss of two members in good standing would be a "Damn Shame".

Makkin

  

[Kuna]

WOW... you go away for a while and the theme changes totally...

Back to the post submitted on page 1 (I think it was page 1), I don't consider a wife who's not chasing a career to be low reward.

I think our desires for a relationship are heavily influenced by our prior relationships.  I've had a "career woman" and wouldn't want someone so heavily focused on her career again.  

Maybe Turbo hasn't had the "career woman" experience before so that attracts him???

I haven't had someone who was ready to start a family and spend the weekends playing with our children in the back yard and helping them with their homework. I believe Turbo has had a "family life experience". That's probably a turn off for him.

My point originally, (other than being offended to see an outstanding person like Olga being referred to as "low reward") is to say we are all looking for different things and we all should have the ability to choose who we want to spend our lives with. To refer to someone as "low reward" is ignorant at best.

A woman with a career and high income isn't high reward for me...  but maybe my scoring system is different to others!

Each to their own!  I'm sure Turbo is happy with who he's found.  I hope that happiness continues.

Kuna

[Makkin]

Hello,

  Maybe it's an opinion of the writer who in effect has an opinion based on experience. If the opinion is offensive then by all means another opinion should be justified in asking for clarification. An opinion serves the person giving it in most cases but at times it serves others to make statements that sometimes are not so clear as to be deemed retrospect at best.

  The opinions based here are not laws written is stone except in areas of legal expertise and with the guidence of those who strictly adhere to the norms and standards of pre-conditioned thoughts and the notions of fair and equitable communication and also with variance and tolerance to cultural norms.

  What I just wrote explains nothing at best. It could be related to some definition of contract negotiations in all matters pertinant to the GUIDE-LINES and how we perceive them.

Makkin

[Mir]

TG

I wrote:

I feel that TG and vrvw full understand each other and I don't think that what has been written here has pooped any red flags for TG.

So I agreed with you that you should not see any red flags if you enter a relationship after knowing each other well.
Do I or anyone else understands your relationship? Well I never claim to and in any case if I or anyone else does then what difference that make?

[Jazzyclassy]

    Do I or anyone else understands your relationship? Well I never claim to and in any case if I or anyone else does then what difference that make               

Of course! it is all clear I believe

we all just were trying to tell  this , it will always be so while discussing this or that topic people will never come to one point , we are all different, tastes differ in everything, but that is amazing cos World is  full of different variety and we need to learn and try to understand every little thing to be really free  within our soul and reach harmony:)

Dear Makkin thank you ,  for some reason you keep thanking me , you are too kind towards me but it is so pleasent really:)))



 

[Voyageur]

I have read many posts about how not to seek a woman from the FSU unless you can provide for her comfortably when she arrives here. The cost of seeking, securing, relocating and settling to another country has been well documented here and at other places. Remember the comments to a forum member’s ill-advised friend who is living from pizza-to-pizza in NYC on a salary of less than $ 30 K per year, who was asking someone here advise about finding a FSU woman?  Could someone really be that stupid ?? – that is what I took as consensus from this forum about this individual.

So the question is- why is everyone tripping over themselves to point out to T/G all the red flags that have been raised? Shouldn’t a woman from the FSU consider what kind of standard of life to expect when she arrives in her new country and is leaving her past life behind her?  Straight talking from a RW is a refreshing characteristic that may be an acquired taste for some newbies.   Shouldn’t a frank assessment be part of the equation when it the decision is made to start a new family together? Shouldn’t this assessment be part of the decision process - to leave all she knows and built in her life behind - include the earning potential of her new family?  If she enjoyed a level of success in her life, even if someone is very much in love and wants to be together no matter what, real life could have a way of working on these feelings over time.  Day-to-day hardships with finances have a way of undermining a relationship’s long-term success – I have seen statistics on this.

When I read comments about how money or financial standing should not matter, about how building a new life together hand-to-mouth, living only on love seems like a fairy tale. Like part of an Agency’s fantasy story. This sort of sunshine-thinking seems unrealistic to me in the light and trials of building a new life together, especially when dealing with all the other issues that can arise when two people come together from different countries and cultures. 

Also, consider that most of the male posters here, who have been married for a time, seem to be in the upper to upper middle class of the society they live in.  In my opinion, the state of household finances and the way they are handled are a not-inconsiderable part of any marriage.  So being somewhat financially solvent seems to be a significant ingredient for success in a Western-FSU marriage or relationship. The trick seems to be to understand when you are being taken advantage of, and when you are in a real and loving relationship.

Also, I think that every consideration should be given to a non-native English speaker when responding in this kind of forum.  Certainly the situation with VWRW and T/G is unique in this (or any other FSU-oriented forum) – that is, two regular posters who are applying for a K1 Visa together.  Both add value and perspective to this forum, IMHO and I would hate to see them leave. People who are compelled to raise any red flags have done so and can sleep well at night, knowing that they have done so now. 

[mspanky]

 Noone is saying they should live on love and ignore finances. I have not seen that. Of course finances are important. But do most women have to marry the man with the biggest pot of gold to think him high reward? Most men the youngest and hottest they can attract, to think her high reward? Should'nt charecter of the person be included in the asessment?  Most are saying a persons value to a marriage should not be based solely on how young they are, or how much money they can bring to the table.

 Using the analogy
Young wife=high risk high. reward
age compatible wife =low risk low,low reward

makes no sense.Especially when she compared 2 members wives in her analogy. How can she make that asessment not knowing them?

There can be 2 couples who outwardly fit her description of how she thinks.

 But couple with young wife and high earning potential could be she focuses a lot on her career. Makes new friends and think them more important than husband,is not very affectionate with her husband or whatever.

 Couple #2. With age compatible wife with lower earning potential can be less stress on her to be competitive at work, she may make her husband a priority and be very affectionate. has friends, but they are secondary.

  I myself would say to me,wife #2 is high value. Wife #1. May look great on the outside, but I can do without.

 We are saying she should not prejudge people to be high value,or low value solely by her standards.


 I hope when they marry and live in the U.S. vwrw can see how prejudments made by people can be so wrong as she will get a lot of thet. No matter what she and TG believe. But she seems a tough girl and I truly wish them all the best. TG knows her better than anybody and her personality seems to fit what he is looking for.We all seek a person who makes us feel loved, happy and comfortable.

[Voyageur]

All that I am saying that any pre-judgement of a potential spouse in the US should include finances.  Of course, I am also against pre-judgement of people soley on the basis of wealth.

But we are not speaking of this, we are speaking of a FSU woman considering everything that it take to move to a foreign country and to make a decision on what her future life has to offer.   And I am also saying that some consideration should be given to those who are participating in this forum and who are communicating in a second language.

[catzenmouse]

FWIW,

 I don't see a "red flag" in any way for TG. VWRW has been here long enough and posted enough to get a feel for how she thinks and feels on many subjects. She is not what I would consider a "gold digger" etc.

 What I did see was a post that was taken as an insult (and I also read it that way regardless of how it was intended) and a lot of stubborn behavior afterwards by multiple posters.

 The hardest thing to grasp in a semi-anonymous internet board is the "gist" of the message. The written word is very stark most of the time. Reading between the lines along with the lines and taking our own perceptions from that is where most of the confusion and arguments come into play.

Ken

[groovlstk]

I see the same thing: A CATFIGHT and nothing more, and only now that it's petering out do I have the stones to poke my head in it To read more into it is silly, IMO.

[BillyB]

   If a much older man or woman cannot see society(no talking about me) will question an almost 40 year age difference, they are not being honest with themselves.

Most people will point fingers at couples with a 10 year age difference because they wouldn't/can't do it. The truth is most people in this world will point fingers and question everyone in this forum for choosing to find love overseas. If one can't handle the heat, he/she should get out of the kitchen.

I'm pretty sure if your woman gained a little weight after a couple of  kids she'd still be high value to you. I'm pretty sure if she decided on a career as a school teacher(who may make less than a waitress) instead of  a big shot lawyer she'd still be high value to you. What she makes and a few pounds would not lower her value.

If I gain 50 lbs, I know my value "physically" will lower with women out there. Most everybody  judges and places value people's physical appearance among other things otherwise heavy, ugly women would be attracting men as much as slim models. I'm happy with the way my fiancee is now and I hope she does well if she wants higher education and a good job. That would make me proud and will have more value to me. I know she's going to old, gain weight, and be less physically attractive in the future. So am I. I accept those facts and don't deny it isn't going to happen.  But hopefully we'll grow and enrich each others lives in other ways to the point we will love each other without the need of physical beauty.

There are a lot of women who do care about the genes passed on to her children. They judge and value men accordingly to what they want. Some men will be rejected more, some less. It may not seem fair but it's life.

[LEGAL]

Quote:
"my mom to need eating only potatoes because I am not able to help her with money...  I am simply a worker... my desire to be successful business woman in America"

It is not a bad ambition to add some meet to potatoes for dinner. But what is the  way a future businesswoman  chooses to get some meet?

Why do some women think that it is easy to be a business woman in America?  If  they can not be a business woman in Russia.
I know it is not difficult to get a meet for dinner in Russia.

My friend Irena who has received a diploma  as a choirmaster, when she was 25 y.o. she  had the intellect to organize her own small real estate agency and when she was 28 y.o. she had the intellect to sell her business and not to be a bankrupt when the large real estate companies  took over their smaller opponents.  Presently Irena works in a large construction company she has a salary and gets a % from selling the apartments and new concluded a treaties with other firms.


I'm sure a real business woman knows how and where to get the best investment or a credit with small % or with no %   to make her career.

Olga.


 

[Mir]

There are a lot of women who do care about the genes passed on to her children. They judge and value men accordingly to what they want. Some men will be rejected more, some less. It may not seem fair but it's life.
 
 Billy

Being rich does not change the genes.In a union between a young woman and much older man it is possible that the children will spend a lot of their life fatherless,not something to looks forwards to.

[KenC]

she seems a tough girl and I truly wish them all the best. TG knows her better than anybody and her personality seems to fit what he is looking for.We all seek a person who makes us feel loved, happy and comfortable.

How "tough" a girl can she be when she has to pick up her marbles and run away from a message board when people disagree with her?  With such a low resistance to small challanges, she will never make it in business here.
KenC

[mspanky]

Ken,

 That is a very good response. With all due respect, what do you think your wife would think of this post. Some are trying to defend it. But with remarks such as implying a man is "giving charity"From Legal:
I never thought of Olga as doing for me,

rwvw:
Charity – giving up money without waiting something in return. (Apart from a place in paradise)
Do I need to explain what the Investment is?From

Legal:
feel Olga has been an advantages asset to me and my practice. I would not have anyone else run my business.

rwvw
I often heard words on RWD – never put all eggs in one bag.
Lucky JB stands with two bags in one he has his business in other he has his huge reward wife. If he loses one bag it is not a catastrophe his wife will provide him.
If Legal loses his bag… who will provide him and the “charity” he must do. 
In other words Legal’s family is 1 + 0,5 = 1,5. JB’s family is 1+1=2. Can you see difference?

Huge reward wife = Right woman with fluent English and with good job in America. (or at least she is able to find a good job if there is a need)
Little reward wife = Right woman But English is not good enough to be able to find job if there is a need. VWRW is not aware a RW will always find a job here. The U.S. is full of them. I know of one Russian girl who just got a job last weel watching a sick older woman. Pay is $700 a week off the books(cheaper than a nurse I guess). She comes in at 8 leaves at 5.

  I know another who is getting her license to do hair. She will be able to make over a grand a week as she was an apprentice to very highly paid stylist in a great salon. Rw need not worry. Thyey can find jobs so now I guess vwrw will find them all high value. Well, at least the young ones.

[LEGAL]

I have voiced my opinion and will do so again. I would not want TurboGuy or VWRW to leave on account of our past words or anyone Else's. I will say this again ( WE ARE A FAMILY HERE )  and family's have arguments, but we all still care about each other and voice our opinions. Hopefully we can learn and help each other. All of us bring much to RWD forum and this should not be forgotton.  I have had arguments with KenC, Elen, JassyClassy, and now TurboGuy and VWRW.  I still would do anything in my power to help each and everyone of you. I may argue with you again  I am very strong willed and express it.  I apologize if I have offended anyone of you I consider you all as friends and would fight for you with the same tenacity as I have voiced my opinion against you.

THE SIGN A HUMBLE PERSON IS ONE WHO COMPROMISES
Sincerely
LEGAL