Safety record of FSU airlines and planes

[FunIndieBloke]

Hi everyone,

I am going to Zaporozhye in Ukraine to see a girl, and my flight is into Kiev with Ukranian International Airlines.  While I am not worried about this flight, as its on a Boeing 737 and UIA seems to have an alright safety record.  I am considering flying Aerosvit from Kiev Borispol to Zaporozhye Airport (OZH), or DNK.  The plane they use for this flight is an Antonov An-24, which is an older model.  What is the details of the safety record of this plane?  Wikipedia says they have been a lot of accidents, but this plane was first flown in the 60s, and it has been used a lot by the military, so maybe a lot of those accidents have been in war zones.  What's the civil aviation safety record of this plane like?  What are the FSU airlines or aircraft to avoid?  Or should I take the train?

I am not afraid to fly, and once logged over 150,000 frequent flyer miles while traveling for business.  However, I've never flown on older Soviet aircraft, so I am just doing my research before I book?

Thanks!
FIB

[Kuna]

FiB,

I flew Aerosvit from Kiev to Dnepr and I THINK it was on that model aircraft.

Aerosvit was good in my opinion.  The plane looked old (I had a window seat and could see the peeling wallcoverings behind the overhead baggage compartments) but the flight was smooth and uneventful.

What gave me more confidence was the presence of some business people that looked very afluent in business class on my flight, and I figured if there was a better way to go.. they'd be going that way.

I was concerned about air safety before my trip and did a lot of research, and decided it looked safe...

Kuna

[Turboguy]

Hey, look at the bright side.  That old plane has probably made 10,000 flights and hasn't crashed yet.

[El Rock]

Funny how  the Ukrainian  people celebrate   when  the plane  lands

[Kuna]

I thought it was strange when Ms C would get excited when she saw a plane in the sky... Maybe she was just happy it was staying up there??   ???

[El Rock]

One of my trips , I sat behind a girl who  was yelling  , terrified  , first time on a plane , she was Ukrainian on a trip from Madrid with Valeri , my gal from Kiev , who will be here in Ariz next week , HA !

[wxman]

I have flown on those planes several times out of Kiev. The first time I got on one I was apprehensive. Some of the seat belts did not work (not that it would be of any use in a crash), but it got us to our destination. I found it amusing when the stewardess would bring a plate of hard candy for us to take before and during the flight. I always wondered if they drugged them to ease the fear of the passengers.    All in all, the flights went smoothly and the nice thing about those prop engines, is if one fails, it can still fly. Bring ear plugs, as the engines are quite loud! 

[Rvrwind]

Not to worry. Its not the falling that is the problem. Its that sudden stop at the bottom!!!
Now if they had good air brakes...LOL

[Kuna]

I found it amusing when the stewardess would bring a plate of hard candy for us to take before and during the flight. I always wondered if they drugged them to ease the fear of the passengers.   

I thought the candy was to get you sucking and salivating and swallowing to help with ears popping.  I'm no expert, but are those prop planes as well pressurised as larger planes that look more likely to stay in the air?

[I/O]

Hey, look at the bright side.  That old plane has probably made 10,000 flights and hasn't crashed yet.

Bit like my father says about Qantas, which is the only long haul carrier in the world that has never put one on the deck, ah well it must be coming soon. 

Kuna: The prop jobs are pretty steady and actually don't have a bad record.  Wait till you fly out of Odessa in the winter and they bring those flame throwers out to melt the ice off the wings. Now that is scary sh!te. Seriously scary.

I/O

[Gator]

When the Russian airplanes become REALLY old, I think they are sent here.

[BC]

Love those TU-134's with the huge round windows.. gives the impression you are in a submarine..

[Shadow]

Having survived a number of exotic plane rides I can tell you that as long as you do not see the captain entering the plane with a parachute and a book 'how to fly' he will probably be able to land the plane safely 

I remember the flights in Argentina with the props and the flame throwers... then take-off and landing on snow covered landing strips. Still there were like 100 flights a day on these airports, for the pilots business as usual.

[groovlstk]

Slightly off topic, but one thing that drives me nuts when flying with Russians is that as soon as the plane hits the tarmac, there's a mad rush for the overhead bins and exit doors. 

[Jack]

FIB I often say that the Ukr and Russian airlines use some of the strongest bailing wire in the industry.  That's a joke.  In my years of flying domestic in Ukraine I am aware of only two accidents. The first was a few years back, and I was actually in the air a few hours before this, when the Ukraine navy was doing their yearly maneuvers in the Black Sea and shot a missle at a target at about the same time a Russian airline plane flying from I think Turkey to St. Pete had got a little to close to this area that was suppose to be restricted. The missle locked onto the passanger airplane and brought it down. Then last year there was a Russian passanger plane flying from Sochi and flew into a thunderstorm and crashed just outside of Donestk.

I won't mislead you or anyone, whenever I can take a first-class overnight train over a flight this will always be my first choice but when I have to fly then I have to fly. I have flown on a lot of old and different type planes that I have never flown before and it seems there is a different story with every flight.  One twin prop from Kiev to Chernvisiti we actually had a table towards the rear with two seats on one side and two on the other side of the table. But the time we had reached 200 points in spades we were landing.   If I ever fly on another YAK 40 I will rush to get one of the first four seats on the first row.  My knee's are in my chin on any of the other seats.  And how cool is it to board a plane, you carry your own luggage onto to the plane and load it yourself into the area where the luggage is stored.

This past fall  (ooppps, FIB you may not want to hear this story, might want to skip over this paragraph)  a lady friend from Zaporozhye was flying into Kiev. She was sitting by the window and the plane was probably a one or two minutes from taking off when she noticed something leaking from one of the engines. She mentioned this to one of the cabin attendants. One of the pilots went outside to look at it and they found an oil leak. The plane was delayed about 45 minutes while they fixed this leak. Both the pilots thanked this lady over and over. Once the flight got in the air they let her come up to where they were sitting and she actually got to sit in one of the pilot's seat where she had her photo taken with her camera phone.  The pilots had told her if they had of taken off without knowing about that leak that they would have had to have made a quick landing somewhere.

But I can't help but to think that this is something one of the pilots or ground crew should have caught as it's there job to check for such things like this before every flight.

[Shadow]

Off topic as well...
The biggest scare ever in a plane I got in a flight from Turkey to Holland. I was sitting behind the wing and could see the engine. It was a 30 year old plane carryting the original airhostesses 
The first landing was a very hard one and I saw the rear of the engine cover drop down to the ground causing some sparks. Needless to say I was expecting the worst. After the plane came almost to a standstill....... the engine cover came back in to his place. It was used for braking on this type of plane. 

[FunIndieBloke]

Hi guys!

Thanks a lot for your advise!  I've decided to take the Aerosvit flight, since most of you had no issues with them, and they have had only one fatal accident 10 years ago, and it looks like it was due to pilot error.  Furthermore, according to AirSafe.com's list of fatal accidents in the FSU, none of the planes involved was an An-24.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fsu.htm

So I think its alright, plus, its another travel experience for my memories!  I've flown enough in 777s.   

[Pike]

Slightly off topic, but one thing that drives me nuts when flying with Russians is that as soon as the plane hits the tarmac, there's a mad rush for the overhead bins and exit doors. 

- - - -

Not just Russians, but throughout that part of the world.  I have been with a few RW/UW on some of the flights there and I warned them how uncivilized their fellow countrymen/women were.  They didn't believe me until we landed and the other passengers were like hogs fighting for a space at the trough.  The RW with me became very embarrassed.

A couple of months ago, I flew the nonstop Kyiv to JFK on Aerosvit.  Just after the tires touched down, a couple of late teenagers just in front of me jumped up and started opening a bin.  I yelled out . . . "Sit down, you aren't in Ukraine now!!"  Several people clapped when I said that. 

But later, a man and his young boy got up and started down the aisle.  The flight attendants ran up and got the boy back in his seat and scolded the man.

And yet a few seconds later a Ukrainian man got up and open a bin and started pulling out a suitcase.  Then he dropped it on the head and shoulder of a man who was sitting on the aisle.  This guy was a big dude and he glared and yelled at the Ukrainian.  The Ukrainian man crept back into his seat and left the suitcase in the aisle.

Once the plane neared the gate however, there was no holding them back.

Very funny how the Eastern Europeans think that Americans are uncultured.

[Pike]

Hi guys!  Thanks a lot for your advise!  I've decided to take the Aerosvit flight,

- - - - - -

FIB, I have decided just the opposite of you.  I am going into DNK on an international flight and avoiding the KBP to DNK link up.

The safety of the planes was a concern to me, but also weighing heavily was the possible problems with excess baggage charges.

International flights have considerably larger baggage allowances than do local Ukrainian flights.  With the DNK to KBP return flight, there is a possiblity of hefty excess baggage costs, even where you have connecting international flights.  Several of my business colleagues have gotten caught in this situation.

[Wayne]

I flew from Moscow to Krasnoyarsk on Kras-Air.  The plane was large and modern.  The service was good.  Compared to British Airlines from Detroit to London and London to Moscow, Kras-Air was much superior!

[catzenmouse]

We've always found the "In Country" service to be far superior to the intenational service. Others have stated the opposite. Pick one and you've got a 50/50 chance of being right...

[Wayne B]

I find the international service has been very good! Most all of the internal flights are prop planes and they have the ability to glide to a landing or God forbid a 'crash'   The jets on the other hand fall like a rock after the engines stop!!!! 

[Mir]

On a flight from Kiev to Amsterdam a middle aged man was sitting next to me. Sometimes during the flight he started charting on his mobile. Soon an airhostess appeared and asked him to switch off his phone. He then stooped talking and put the still on phone in his pocket. The airhostess was by now quite furious so she grabbed the phone, pulled it out of his pocket, turned it off and gave it back to him.

[Zhena]

Hi everyone,

I am going to Zaporozhye in Ukraine to see a girl, and my flight is into Kiev with Ukranian International Airlines.  While I am not worried about this flight, as its on a Boeing 737 and UIA seems to have an alright safety record.  I am considering flying Aerosvit from Kiev Borispol to Zaporozhye Airport (OZH), or DNK.  The plane they use for this flight is an Antonov An-24, which is an older model.  What is the details of the safety record of this plane?  Wikipedia says they have been a lot of accidents, but this plane was first flown in the 60s, and it has been used a lot by the military, so maybe a lot of those accidents have been in war zones.  What's the civil aviation safety record of this plane like?  What are the FSU airlines or aircraft to avoid?  Or should I take the train?

I am not afraid to fly, and once logged over 150,000 frequent flyer miles while traveling for business.  However, I've never flown on older Soviet aircraft, so I am just doing my research before I book?

Thanks!
FIB

Dont fly by An-24 I did some times Kiev-Odessa and after the last one I said NEVER EVER...It is scary,I thought we wont land It was stormy and some times we felt like the plan is falling down. If its possible,use the other plans.

[PeeWee]

I figure that the act of riding in a car, anywhere in Eastern Europe, is less safer than to ride in an aeorplane. Besides, it is not the airplane that is unsafe but rather those that care not to maintain it properly. This even happened with Aeroflot two summers ago. Substandard materials used in the braking systems caused Putin's plane, an IL86, to delay thus causing a few heads to roll. Then all IL86 were grounded, which included the entire Aeroflot fleet. Sloppy maintainence of the machine is what to fear, not the machine itself.

Peewee