Crap!! Here we go again. Jim/Jack

[viking]

I received this only a few hours ago. Has anyone else gotten this as well? I thought this was finished on another thread. :seething:


Hello Friend,


This is a loyal reader of agencyscams.com. Jim's sites and him personally are being attacked. One constant attack is from anastasiaweb. You can see there new site here (http://agency-scams.com,) Funny, isn't it. But we all know that aweb is a scam, so we can forget about their spoof sites. There is one guy that has finally gone over the edge.
Jack Bragg – the asshole in charge of http://www.firstdream.com,. He has always been harping on Jim. He is now calling Jim a scam. He has made this site together with Dan from russianwomendiscussion.com...(http://jimslistsucks.com,) (Stolen from - http://jimslists.com,)
Anyway, why am I contacting you? I want your defense of Jim. If you think that Jim is doing a good job and helping guys, just defend him. If you want to attack Jack (google his name and you can find out what he is really like) that would be great, too. He has a huge post at rwd where he lists his theories about Jim and calls them proof that Jim is a scam. I could not make any sense of it.
If you don't wanna do this or simply think it is wrong; OK. I don't to waste your time on this. I would really appreciate the help in defending Jim, but I do NOT want to impose on you. I apologize that this letter is so long. I tried to keep it as short as possible.


If you need some ideas for attacking Jack, here are some. (I don't think Dan needs to be attacked, he is just a puny sidekick of the gigantic asshole, Jack...)


Go onto russianwomendiscussion.com, or rwguide.com, russian-detective.com, womenrussia.com, scamalert.freeservers.com or any other forum you know of and make up lies about Jack. It doesn't matter what they are. Any lie is fine. And you can even print facts about the asshole, because those are just as bad as any lie you could think of.


Go onto any blog or guestbook and simply bash the guy.


Go to freeservers.com and make your own, free web site that bashes Jack Bragg. You can easily get a site for free, make a page with bullshit about Bragg and it will be on the net. It is EASY. It is like WORD on the net.


Write a letter to the US Embassy in Ukraine or Russia and tell them that he is a criminal, runs prostitution tours, finds and brings back information of their nation or anything you can think of. Say that the dating gig is just a front for his illegal activities.


U.S. Embassy Kyiv
10 Yurii Kotsiubynskyi St.
Kyiv 01901 Ukraine
380-44-490-4000
kyivacs@state.gov
KyivIRC@state.gov
kyivwebmaster@state.gov


Bolshoy Deviatinsky Pereulok No. 8
Moscow 121099, Russian Federation - PSC-77, APO AE 09721
Tel: +7 (495) 728-5000, fax: 728-5090
consulMo@state.gov


Ulitsa Furshtadskaya, 15, St. Petersburg 191028
Russia — PSC 78, Box L, APO AE 09723
Tel: +7 (812) 331-2600, fax: 331-2852
acsstpete@state.gov


Ulitsa Pushkinskaya 32, Vladivostok 690001
Tel: +7 (4232) 30-00-70
Fax: +7 (4232) 49-93-72
pavlad@state.gov


Ulitsa Gogolya 15A, 4th floor Yekaterinburg 620151, Russia
Tel: +7 (3432) 79-30-01, 56-46-19, 56-46-91
consulyekat@state.gov




Write letters to the Russian or Ukraine Embassies in the US and do the same thing.


1333 West Loop South, Ste.1300,
Houston, TX 77027.
Telephone: (713) 337-3300


2641 Tunlaw Road, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20007
Telephone: (202) 939-8907, 939-8913, 939-8918, 939-8911 (Monday-Friday 9:00 a.m. - 12.30 p.m. and 2:30 p.m.- 6:00 p.m.)


9 East 91 Street, New York, NY 10128
Telephone: (212) 348-0926 Fax: (212) 831-9162


2790 Green Street
San-Francisco, CA 94123
Telephone: (415) 928-6878 , (415) 202-9800


2323 Westin Building, 2001 6th Ave.
Seattle, WA 98121
Telephone: (206) 728-1910


3350 M Street, NW, Washington, D.C. 20007
Phone: (202) 349-3398, 333-7507, 333-7508, 333-7509
Fax: (202) 333-7510
E-Mail: consular@ukremb.com


240 East 49 st, New York, NY, 10017
Phone: (212) 371-5690
Fax: (212) 371-5547
E-Mail: gc_usn@mfa.gov.ua


10 East Huron Street, Chicago, IL 60611
Phone: (312) 642-4388
Fax: (312) 642-4385
E-Mail: gc_usc@mfa.gov.ua


530 Bush Street, suite 402, San Francisco, CA 94108
Phone: (415) 398-0240
Fax: (415) 398-5039
E-Mail: consulate@UkraineSF.com




Go to the BBB website or office in your city and file a complaint...


http://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx




Send a letter to the FBI in Texas saying that he sends sex tours to the FSU, is involved with terrorist groups or is taking US information to the FSU.


FBI Dallas
One Justice Way
Dallas, Texas 75220
dallas.fbi.gov
(972) 559-5000




Send a letter to the IRS telling them about all the tax fraud and evasion he is committing.


Internal Revenue Service
Fresno, CA 93888


This is apparently his house...if you want to pay him a visit, throw things at or into his house, go ahead...


760 Dove Circle
City Lewisville
State Texas
Country United States
Zip code 75067
Phone number 972 446 2550


And this is an address that Jack uses also...feel free to check it out and send lots of crap there.


Telephone: +1 (214) 878 9260
Fax: +1 (972) 446 3434
Postal address: 1614 S. Broadway #110
Carrollton, Texas 75006
USA




I know that Jim would never approve of this, so I am doing it myself. Here is a guy, Jim, that is trying to help us guys avoid being scammed and not asking for a penny from us, and then there is this moron, Jack Bragg, saying lies about Jim and calling him a scam. Yes, an agency owner who wants your money and is NOT listed on Jim's Gold List.


I will CC a copy of this letter to Jim also. I don't want him to catch any more flack from this asshole Jack Bragg because I am only trying to help him. If you only want to do one, all or none of the points above, fine, it is your choice. But if Jim's sites have ever helped you, I think you deserve it to him. I know I have offered him some bucks for his help, and he told me to save it for my search. If he won't take our money as thanks, doing any number of the points above will be thanks enough to the guy that is helping us.

[catzenmouse]

Viking,

 Do you still have the e-mail? If so, I would forward it on to Dan with full headers (and Jack too if you feel so inclined) as this looks a bit too close to a legal issue to me.

Ken

[Jack]

I think I'll take the advice of an RWD member who just wrote me to reply with  "ho-hum, so what else is new".

Hey eegoor, did you get this spam?  Hope so. Go get them tiger, find out who spammed you!

[viking]

Ken

Yes I do and I just sent Dan a PM with all data. If Jack wants it also he can email me and I will send to him as well. This goes beyond a normal him versus me.

[catzenmouse]

That's how I read it as well. Thanks Viking.

Jack,

 I'm surprised at your reaction. But if it is genuine, then good for you.

Ken

[Jooky]

This is apparently his house...if you want to pay him a visit, throw things at or into his house, go ahead...

Jack, if I pay you a visit, will you at least have some beers waiting in the fridge for me?

I promise not to throw too much at your house.

[Jack]

Jookey, I will always (in America or the FSU) buy or provide the first three rounds.

As Bob Barker's sidekick would say,...come-on downnnn.



Ken, my reaction of "ho-humm, so what else is new" are my feelings, what else is new?   I'm used to "unknown" individuals making such claims, HOWEVER this e-mail sent out by this individual, or individuals, telling, urging, requesting hundreds or thousands to file false terrorist reports, oh my, not in today's world.  All I can say for now.

[Admin]

I have resisted for months in responding to this crap from Jim.

Now, based on these threats, I want to ask ALL the readers to ponder a few things. These are REAL LIFE questions - NOT internet discussion forum questions - they apply to you and your families and your businesses in REAL LIFE.

* Would any of you want to have the kinds of threats made in this broadcast email, made toward you?
* Can you imagine what might happen if the IRS or Homeland Security or the FBI were to take ANY shred of a malicious lie as containing some truth, and acted on it?
* What kind of person do you believe would distribute such an email?

Ponder a couple of more points:

* Jack. Jack is hard-headed and obstinate. He pisses me off sometimes, and he knows it. He hardly minces words - BUT - in the years I have known him, there are few people more passionate in their belief about this endeavor and I believe he is generally quite honest.

* Because I have never made a secret of my association with Jack, I have found myself defending RWD and me personally, when someone gets twisted up with Jack. Seems I am never able to effectively moderate RWD once a flamewar erupts involving Jack because no matter what I do, it is wrong in someone's opinion. So be it. I know what I know, and I do my best to keep things balanced and equitable for all. I make mistakes - sometimes big ones, but the members of RWD are important to me, and that is where my loyalties lie, and Jack knows this.

* Over the course of the past several months, I have been involved - sometimes directly and sometimes peripherally - with some of the 'residue' of my association with Jack. Recently, I have also been involved in negotiations seeking to find some 'peace' between Jim (reference the opening message) and Jack - and to some extent, RWD and me after Jim decided to malign us as well.

Those negotiations have gone through the typical cycles most negotiations follow - and Kevin Hayes has been trying diligently to act as an objective intermediary. I, for one, have not made it easy on Kevin. As I learned more and more about the sites in question, I found a lot of smelly stuff - and I challenged Kevin's interests in remaining associated with that smelly stuff. Still, Kevin persisted and has made a good faith effort to seek a reconciliation.

Now - today - out of the blue and with no substantive communication from Jim for weeks, I receive an email from him which is highly-charged emotionally, threatening and accusational.

It is sent the same day as this broadcast email attacking Jack.

Coincidence? Maybe.

My question to the board is this:

Do you want me to share the contents of the email exchanges which have transpired with Jim since last December?

I am of two minds. On the one hand, I desperately want others to see the principals for who and what they really are. It could prove a bad decision as there may be some who will read what I've written and feel I am the bad guy. I truly do not know what the reaction it - but it just strikes me that it would be good to 'get it all out there.'

For those who might accuse me of possibly editing material from the exchanges to make myself look good - you should know that I blind-copied numerous people whom, I believe, you will trust - throughout the exchange in real-time. If my credibility is suspect in any way - theirs should not be - and if they choose to come forward, they can at least vouch for the fact that the record is factual and not edited for content.

The other side of me is the part that still would like to see a conciliatory accord reached. My guess it that once I expose the 'dirty laundry' to the world, there is no hope of a reconciliation and we will simply have a board war. Of course, since that is one of the things I was told (not in those words, but the implication was clear) in the email this morning - it is not much of a loss.

So what do you guys think?

Do you care?

Let me know. I'll just sit on this till I see some responses.

- Dan

[Bruce]

Dan,

Please do not post the emails on this board between you and Jim.  I always feel emails are like PM's and should not be posted unless the other party (Jim) would agree that they be posted.  Honestly, I really do not care.  I looked at the initial flamefest with amusement.  I do not know Jim but way back when, when I was in the search mode I looked at his list and every other bit of information I could digest about the FSU when I considered, where, when and how to go about the process.  I've always for the most part liked the advice Jack gives over the years.  He is a great guy to chat with about how to go about ones business in the FSU.  I think Jack has a really big heart and although I have never met him feel he is a genuinely nice guy.  All the Jack and Jim bickering just makes both of them look really foolish, childish, unprofessional and maligns both of their character.  Unfortunately for you Dan, getting drawn into their mess could easily drag you into it.  The more you work behind the scenes the better off for you and RWD. 

The spam Viking received truly was dispicable.

 I am really sorry someone out there is trying to make life miserable for Jack. 
Jack, please get your lawyer involved.  I assume you already have.

I for one am extremely happy that I have not received the email Viking and I assume many others received. 

For a guy in the search process it is good to know as much as one can about all the agencies out there; all the guides, regions of the FSU; etc.  The more prepared one is the easier the vacation and the better ones experience.  There has to be a way Jim and Jack could do their thing without messing with each other. 

[BillyB]

I was hoping Jim and Jack would make up to the point they'd want to have each other's baby. But I guess it's not going to happen anytime soon. I see Jim and Jack trying to help people in their own ways. Nobody is perfect. I've once disagreed with Jim over the dating site bride.ru and telling him it's not bad like he says they are although he once had them blacklisted. But he once helped me and countless others to get our fiancee's/girlfriends off questionable agencies who would not normally respond to the woman with a profile there. In Jim's business there's no way he could be perfect and it takes some balls to be there to take the heat from agencies on his blacklist. Not many people want to be in his shoes.

This latest round of attacks is not helping Jack or Jim and that's a shame. I believe both guys are trying to help others in their own way and there are worse people and agencies to criticize for the benefit of the people in this endeavor. Unless this stops, more and more men are going to turn to questionable agencies and their fake anti-scam sites for service and info.

[Admin]

I was hoping Jim and Jack would make up to the point they'd want to have each other's baby. But I guess it's not going to happen anytime soon. I see Jim and Jack trying to help people in their own ways. Nobody is perfect. I've once disagreed with Jim over the dating site bride.ru and telling him it's not bad like he says they are although he once had them blacklisted. But he once helped me and countless others to get our fiancee's/girlfriends off questionable agencies who would not normally respond to the woman with a profile there. In Jim's business there's no way he could be perfect and it takes some balls to be there to take the heat from agencies on his blacklist. Not many people want to be in his shoes.

This latest round of attacks is not helping Jack or Jim and that's a shame. I believe both guys are trying to help others in their own way and there are worse people and agencies to criticize for the benefit of the people in this endeavor. Unless this stops, more and more men are going to turn to questionable agencies and their fake anti-scam sites for service and info.

One of the things often overlooked in 'wars' such as these - is the old adage:

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

A corollary is that "Politics makes strange bedfellows."

We shall see how it all plays out.

I am still waiting for responses - and thanks to Billy and Bruce for offering theirs.

- Dan

[BC]

Some things in life are simply not worth stooping for.  I think this is one of them.

The merit of RWD stands on it's own.  Anyone with a handful of neurons can see through this BS.

[funkola]

To save a noobie from having to search through thousands of messages..... could someone tell me who Jim and Jack are and what this is about. Email me if you would rather.

[BC]

To save a noobie from having to search through thousands of messages..... could someone tell me who Jim and Jack are and what this is about. Email me if you would rather.

Funk,

If it stinks it's best not to go searching for it.

[viking]

This spam had about 50 or so cc's attached to it. But they all started with the letter G or H so I will assume there are hundreds more out there and sooner or later they will find their way into some of your mail boxes. Why me I do not know. I have not ever gotten involved in any of this. But here is my two cents.

I do not know Jim. Never had anything to do with him other than a brief look at his website out of personal interest to see what it looked like. I have nothing positive or negative to say about this man.

I have spoken to Jack by phone and email asking his advice on a number of things and he has ALWAYS given me good advice and info. He knows his stuff and I trust him. I hope his replies here are limited.

Dan

Your posts have always seemed to me well balanced, professional, and with the good of the community at heart. You have put a lot into RWD and other endevors to help people. I wish I knew you 2 years ago. Personally you should not post any emails between you and others here. As Bruce said, without the ok from the other party it would be rude to do so, at the very least. It all comes down to trust. If we trust you to do the right thing, then no there is no need for explaination. If you are trying to make something right, thats all I need to know.

BC

Yep. Right on.

[Admin]

This spam had about 50 or so cc's attached to it. But they all started with the letter G or H so I will assume there are hundreds more out there and sooner or later they will find their way into some of your mail boxes. Why me I do not know. I have not ever gotten involved in any of this. But here is my two cents.

I do not know Jim. Never had anything to do with him other than a brief look at his website out of personal interest to see what it looked like. I have nothing positive or negative to say about this man.

I have spoken to Jack by phone and email asking his advice on a number of things and he has ALWAYS given me good advice and info. He knows his stuff and I trust him. I hope his replies here are limited.

Dan

Your posts have always seemed to me well balanced, professional, and with the good of the community at heart. You have put a lot into RWD and other endevors to help people. I wish I knew you 2 years ago. Personally you should not post any emails between you and others here. As Bruce said, without the ok from the other party it would be rude to do so, at the very least. It all comes down to trust. If we trust you to do the right thing, then no there is no need for explaination. If you are trying to make something right, thats all I need to know.

BC

Yep. Right on.

Re: Posting the email exchange. The part which has me REALLY fuming, is the blackmail and ultimatums. I felt that, to be entirely transparent so that everyone could make their own judgments, the only fair thing to do would be to post the exchanges in their entirety.

Thanks for the comments - still considering.

- Dan

[Shadow]

Dan,

In this case I fully agree with the reaction of Jack, what else is new. Do not go dow to the level of whoever is sending out the e-mail in the name of Jim.
As you know we are dealng here with to people, Jack and Jim, who are hard-headed and both feel they are working extremely hard to help people. This time it seems that someone has gone over the edge.
What I find strange is that ths person ask others to take action, where he could have done so himself. As such this person is clearly too close involved to take action.

[catzenmouse]

Personally I have seen and heard enough about Jim to not have any good thoughts about the man or his brand of "help". I'm glad that some have had a good experience with him but they seem to be a very small minority.

Good points Shadow!

Other questions to ponder:

Would the posting of the e-mail exchange bring about any legal issues for you, Jack, Kevin, or RWD?

Would the posting of the e-mail exchange do anything other than showing the true natue of Jim? If not, is that enough?

Ken

[Kuna]

It's now a legal matter but doesn't need to be referred to a lawyer... Take it to the police!

Bickering is bickering but this is malicious and has to end somewhere.

People think being anonymous on the Internet gives them an ability to break the laws and I'm not sure about the lays in the US but this person could and should go to jail in Australia.

Refer it to the police and insist they take action.  Put an end to all this crap!

Kuna

[William3rd]

Pretty damn scurrilous and a clear effort to damage the integrity of Jack & Co.

Where is this stuff originating from?

[Kuna]

All you need is the originating IP address and the police will track it back through the ISP to the computer that sent it.

It's not a difficult process but it does require the first step.

[Patrick]

Dan, the first email that went around a couple of weeks ago I did not get. This one today I did get. I read it and then e-read it and thought what in the blue hell is this. I thought someone was just pulling a fast one trying to get another pissing contest going. I don't know who Jim is and could care less. I have never met Jack, I have read his post and saw him on TV one time. I have a couple of pals that have met him and had nothing bad to say about him.
  The writing skills shown in the email and some of the angry words written do light a bulb in my memory of past post by a couple of the posters on this site and that makes me think that someone is just trying to get some of the people here thinking about something else besides some of our women that seem to be at odds with eachother.
   To make a long story short, I sent the email to the spam center and did not think anything more about it until I read this tonight.
   If  you want to post the emails from you and Jim , by all means do so. I have no desire to read them, all though I will just to pass the time until Maryna returns from Ukrainian with her Mother, who was given a 5 year Multi Entry visa with no interview ( I have no idea how that happend )and our daughter , where she has been for the past two months while I have been here with a 15 year old , a stupid ass dog and this site for entertainment. Come to think of it I could use some new entertainment,  so, sure post them.
  PS. This is a strange Visa story that I could not understand. Cheers Patrick

[Voyageur]

Thankfully, I never received any email from "Jim" or anyone else in my rather long association with this site.

The email is really despicable, and anyone responsible for this cr*p should be held accountable for these suggestions. Dan is right when he says to imagine the grief caused my some idiot following up on the suggestions to contact the FBI, IRS, etc. I hope that you do post them if the internet trail leads this way - that is, if there is good evidence that the sender of the spam is the sender of the email.

From my experience, Jack does indeed buy the first, second and third rounds. I have found that he is truthful (sometimes painfully so!) and honest in his dealings and helps both clueless newbies and grizzled veterans alike often on his own, without remuneration.  But he is opinionated and that may cause those "less balanced" individuals to go off the deep end.

[William3rd]

I didnt get the offending email. 

The suggestions sure dont apply to Jack's operation although I think that an agency or two affiliated with Jim's people do all that stuff and more.

There may well be a backlash beyond what those folks were expecting to see.