What would you use a guide for?

[DonAz]

Jeez Don,

This is RWD, not the inquisition....

I didn't read all your posts but you are right on one point, Kuna has turned down the volume a good bit.. why turn up yours now?

Do you have some personal interest in the matter?

Hello BC,

I know how you feel. If the shoe was on the other foot I would probably think the same. I apologize if you think I am trying to turn up the volume but nothing could be further from my mind. In fact I am trying to tone down the volume, bring some balance to this discussion and dispute statements I do not think are valid or think they are incorrect I see them . Nothing personal,

Do I have dog in this fight…….No....not at all. Never been to Ukraine. I don’t know pavel or another guide who posts here or  mentioned on any board. I do not recommend guides either

I have used guides in Russia though. I like service and I am lazy. I am kind of a I want, what I want, when I want it kind of guy. When I got an apartment  I wanted to make sure someone cleaned it up every couple  of days. Someone will take care of my laundry for me. I want a driver at my beck and call. We made friends with a local kid who speaks better English then I do ( not too hard to do that ) and works as a free lance taxi driver for us. Now we only use him for picking us up at the airport and taking us back.  When I first went to Russia that is what I wanted and yes I wanted the frig stocked. 

Lets face it folks, we only have certain  amount of time on the ground when we get to the FSU. We want to spend that time with the lady or ladies we came to see and get to know them as best we can. Well that takes time, precious time. Why waste that precious time having to take care of the mundane thngs during your trip. THat doesn't make sense to me to waste my time
 A good guide can arrange everything for you upfront and make your trip much more enjoyable.
Your first trip over ot the FSU can be real doozy . it isn’t like traveling to Europe and any other popular destination. As they say in Russia- Russia is Russia and don’t forget that. Few people speak English and fewer people could care less if you lived or died. no joke!!!  Have some help on the ground can makes things go smoother and less stressful.

From everything I read over the years Pavel and stirlitz have pretty good reputations. I see some complaints about pavel and I am sure there is some validity to those claims. I think the bashing he has taken will wake him up and get him back on track. If he doesn’t, well then he will get slammed again. I doubt he wants that. We’ll see how it goes

 Be prepared before you go and things can be seemless for you. At least that what I think you should shoot for
I think a guide is the way to go in my opinion and I agree with many of the points made here and that goes for kuno too. I like a lot of his point in his list and I enjoyed some of the tongue in cheek too. Overall I think this is a great and informative thread. But lets keep it real

All the best to all!

DonAz

[William3rd]

Meanwhile- the same old players are saying the same ol **** in the brand new thread.

I guess I didnt give my opinion yet but I will wait until I post my very own thread on Guides sometime in the year 2008 which will probably be thread #139. Do guides change their socks between customers? Enquiring minds want to know. . . . . .

[Rvrwind]

Do guides change their socks between customers? Enquiring minds want to know. . . . . .

TFF William, LMAO 

What would you use a guide for?

Personally, for hunting, fishing, maybe mountain climbing, but not to find a wife. There's good agencies for that that amazingly offer the exact same services.

[BC]

Personally, for hunting, fishing, maybe mountain climbing, but not to find a wife. There's good agencies for that that amazingly offer the exact same services.

agency - ladies = guide?

[Leslie]

Don,

I think you have gone way over the top in your personal attack on Kuna.  IMHO Dan (or his moderator) should delete all your posts in this thread except the last one.  I was trying to post some realistic comments on this thread.  Stuff that newcomers would find useful.  In the previous threads I tried to do the same but it got drowned out in a wave of personal spite.

I am also "famous" for losing my temper so please don't take this comment as a personal attack. I don't mean it that way...

To pick up on JB's point.  "Foreigner Prices" have existed for ages.  I reckon it started in CCCP with "INTOURIST"  The old hands maybe remember this arm of the Ministry of Tourism...  I will never forget the wonderful facilities (The Hotel Ukraina!) and their guides (who pretended to be a cadre of the FSB!).  Tourism is way easier now than it was 15 -20 years ago LOL!!!

The point I was trying to make is that "marking up" prices is completely normal in FSU.  It may not be by our standards but it is by theirs.  Guides that do this are not liars and cheats.  If you are unhappy with the price ARGUE.  Don't pay.  Use someone else or buy it yourself.  This is reality.  To impose a foreign set of business ethics is nonsensical.  Quite honestly you must look after yourself and take responsibility for your own actions.  An approach which should come naturally to most prudent sensible people.  Travel in FSU is not dangerous compared to East Africa or Nepal and Pakistan.  Just be aware of what is going on around you.  That way you won't be taken for a ride.

[Gator]

Why does this foment so much debate?  Evoke so much emotion.   I believe people are making harsh statements without understanding all the facts. 

DonAz quoted Kuna, “When I consider my own trip I've learned things that I think might be worthwhile sharing with Newbies.”  And then wrote, You have mentioned that more times then I can count and  to put it mildly I for one have a very hard time seeing how that  holds water. The only theme in your fascinating number of posts is banging guides around.

Actually, Kuna wrote a very informative and entertaining Trip Report.  If I were lecturing Newbies contemplating a trip to the FSU, I would consider it one of several required readings.

Contrary to Sweggin’s comment that Kuna’s trip “went south”, Kuna had a very successful and problem-free trip.  I will agree that asserting Sweggin is a fool was unnecessary.   

I will not comment about the quality and manner of the guide services Kuna received because I have been away for a month and fortunately missed most of this debate including the counterpoints.  From what I knew a month ago by PM, Kuna definitely was overcharged in a less than direct and forthright manner that is typical of business in Russia and Ukraine (and why I would never, never, never invest in a business with a Russian or Ukrainian).

In my opinion, Kuna wrote these threads to inform.  And DonAz, it is “hand holding.”  However, if one does not retain a guide, one has to do more of the planning himself.  That takes time, and since time is money, to some busy men inflated guide services may be worth it. 

I have never used a guide in Ukraine and Russia.  Yet, I just returned from Laos where I did use a guide for a couple of treks to hilltribes and a river trip.  So guides are worth it to me dependent upon the situation. 

[GregfromGa]

Meanwhile- the same old players are saying the same ol **** in the brand new thread.

I guess I didnt give my opinion yet but I will wait until I post my very own thread on Guides sometime in the year 2008 which will probably be thread #139. Do guides change their socks between customers? Enquiring minds want to know. . . . . .

Another smartass useless post by this guy. You would think that someone with such a big opinion,highly educated and comes as well traveled as he would like everyone to believe that he could offer a little more on the subject.

[funkola]

Another smartass useless post by this guy. You would think that someone with such a big opinion,highly educated and comes as well traveled as he would like everyone to believe that he could offer a little more on the subject.

And many of your posts are nothing more than negative comments. In fact, stirring up fecal matter seems to be the main reason for you being here that I have seen.. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Is it possible for anyone to make a comment without you finding fault with it?   ???

[Mir]

Yet, I just returned from Laos where I did use a guide for a couple of treks to hilltribes and a river trip.  So guides are worth it to me dependent upon the situation. 

Exactly my point,use a guide for specific tasks that are well defined and not for doing everything at a cheaper price, IMHO

[GregfromGa]

And many of your posts are nothing more than negative comments. In fact, stirring up fecal matter seems to be the main reason for you being here that I have seen.. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Is it possible for anyone to make a comment without you finding fault with it?   ???

I'd be willing to bet that in less than 6 months we'll be heard about all there is to hear from ole Funkola.  You're probably the main guy here that needs to read more and post less. Like I have told you before,get your a$$ on a plane and then you can from a relevant opinion. Until then you're just wasting bandwidth. I know I've been around here longer than 2 years. It seems like I had to change my handle or something along those lines. I've always enjoyed helping the new guys but some I just like to see crash into the mountain because they already know all the answers. You are one of those guys Funk.

[funkola]

I'd be willing to bet that in less than 6 months we'll be heard about all there is to hear from ole Funkola.  You're probably the main guy here that needs to read more and post less. Like I have told you before,get your a$$ on a plane and then you can from a relevant opinion. Until then you're just wasting bandwidth. I know I've been around here longer than 2 years. It seems like I had to change my handle or something along those lines. I've always enjoyed helping the new guys but some I just like to see crash into the mountain because they already know all the answers. You are one of those guys Funk.

You really seem to think that plane ticket enhances intelligence don't you. I just can't stop laughing about your sense of superiority because you bought a plane ticket. And bragging about how long you have been on a forum is the lamest of accolades. I guess you will make fun of my spelling next eh? I think you are proof that no matter how many times you buy a plane ticket the IQ still has a ceiling.

And the biggest question is this.........what has getting my @ss on an airplane got to do with pointing out your level of hostility to anyone that has a different point of view than you? it won't. As long as you continue to initiate hostilities towards people I will be there to tell you that you need to buy another plane ticket because your IQ is slipping below acceptable levels.    Sometimes it will likely require two plane tickets to bring you back up to normal. 

[GregfromGa]

Funkster you've made 92 post in less than a month. I've made 93 in 2 years because I try not to post every insipid thought that comes to mind. I've probably helped no fewer than several dozen over the years when it came to visiting Ukraine. I dont go on about the number of trips I've made because it really doesnt matter. What matters is You son. What matters is your happiness. I wish you all the best. When I grow up I want to be just like You. Dan runs a good ship  over here and I'm not going to continue this pissing contest with you because quite frankly my friend you're just not worth it and it demeans the board. By the way when are your travel dates set because I'll be in Ukraine for about a month this summer. I'll buy you a beer or whatever.

[Mod2]

Guys,

It's getting a 'wee' bit too personal.

Lets keep the buckles buckled and fly's zipped.

It's not a contest.

Thanks

[William3rd]

My last post was dripping with sarcasm which seems to have passed over a couple of guys.

The history of these threads goes back to Kuna being dissatisfied with guide services. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a hoard of infrequent posters arrive defending the guide. The thread was locked and it keeps living on in other threads and going on and on and on and on. . . . . .

Have I used a guide over the years? Occasionally-with mixed results.
I prefer to go with somebody that knows the ropes. An interpreter living in the city will usually work the best. Or a significant GF. When I visited one girl only, I let her handle the set up and interpreting.

Too bad yahoo closed their boards. Guys, I feel your pain.

[jb]

FWIW, William has made a number of informative and informational posts WRT immigration policy and procedures, we are lucky to have his expertise here at RWD.  OTOH, Greg has been around quite a while and has similarily posted a number of helpful ideas and advice to the newbies who are contemplating the "one week wonder" route.  Since his story is a classic in that venue, I'd suggest you pay attention to what he has to say if you plan only one trip.

Funky buddy, perhaps you should consider dialing down the attitude a bit, so far you sort of come off as a "know-it-all" keyboard Romero.  Greg is right, you will come home with a totally new perspective after you have a trip or two under your belt.  It ain't what you think, and it takes a bit of experience to fathom much of what is being said here.  You are a little too thin on good questions and a little too long on opinions.

Just a little tip.

jb

[GregfromGa]

jb I got lucky and I dont mind saying so although I feel a person can help create his breaks. I did meet my wife on my 2nd trip to Ukraine but our story is probably an exception. I'm probably not a big fan of the one week wonder stuff. I certainly made my fare share of trips wooing her so to speak before we got married. I personally think I got the best one Ukraine had to offer at the time. but I might be a little prejudice. Like I've said a hundred time before "I married way way out of my league"

[Kuna]

So.... gentlemen... what would you use a guide for and what represents good value?

[Jooky]

Contrary to Sweggin’s comment that Kuna’s trip “went south”

Argh. This keeps coming up all over these threads. Sweggin did not state, assert or comment that Kuna's trip report went south. Some of you need to work on your reading comprehension.  

While this thread kicks off with a sarcastic underhanded insult:

There's a lot of people that might appreciate hand holding and babysitting but I wonder EXACTLY what these intrepid travellers would use a guide for?

it does request a refrain from (further) personal attacks and in my opinion Kuna came up with a good comprehensive list of what a guide could be useful for. I would like to amend this list, though it's already very good.

1) Airport Transfers
2) Apartments
3) Sightseeing
4) Night time or day time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants. Recommendations on all of these.
5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets
6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Translations with girls you meet through agencies
9) Meet the guide's friends in the hope of finding a girl
10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick
11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble
12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet
14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
17) Dealing with Agencies for you
18) Visas (if you need them)
19) Helping with groceries and shopping?
20) Help with laundry
21) Advice regarding local manners and customs.
22) Hunting, fishing, camping trips

Although some of these things were listed facetiously, I think there can be value in all of them. What is useful or not depends on the individual.

As for hand holding, that is also up to the individual. You can use an agency or guide to lead you around or you can use them as tools at your disposal, a means to an end.

I think Don summed it upped best on this thread. Using a guide is a matter of convenience. All of the above can be done with the help of agency, a guide, or on your own with the aids of tools. Only a fool travels without tools: maps, guide books, web sites, research prior to travel. A guide is an interactive tool that can answer questions.

The one thing I would not use a guide for is to get the cheapest price. If I hire someone to find me the cheapest price on a train ticket, I'm going to pay more than finding that cheap ticket on my own. I pay more for the convenience. No matter what the 'rip off' price a tourist pays these guides are not making millions, they are simply making a living. They charge what they can. If you don't like the price don't pay it. It's simple business.

Personally, I haven't used a guide in Russia as I've relied on friends, girls that I've visited. I also enjoy and have the time to wander around and explore and I've done some stupid things such as hitching a ride with a stranger that I wouldn't recommend to anyone. 

However, I've used guides and tourist services in other countries for many of what's listed above.

PS: There were some comments on this thread that strike me as odd regarding sex tourists seeking prostitutes. I am under the impression that a 'sex tourist' as defined on this boards is a man who abuses marriage agencies and tours deceiving women with the sole intention of getting laid. If a man wants to travel to hire a prostitute in Vegas, Amsterdam, Bangcock or Kiev, who cares? There is no deception involved.

[William3rd]

Quick- lock the thread. This comprehensive post by Jooky is a perfect way to close it.

[funkola]

FWIW, William has made a number of informative and informational posts WRT immigration policy and procedures, we are lucky to have his expertise here at RWD.  OTOH, Greg has been around quite a while and has similarily posted a number of helpful ideas and advice to the newbies who are contemplating the "one week wonder" route.  Since his story is a classic in that venue, I'd suggest you pay attention to what he has to say if you plan only one trip.

Funky buddy, perhaps you should consider dialing down the attitude a bit, so far you sort of come off as a "know-it-all" keyboard Romero.  Greg is right, you will come home with a totally new perspective after you have a trip or two under your belt.  It ain't what you think, and it takes a bit of experience to fathom much of what is being said here.  You are a little too thin on good questions and a little too long on opinions.

Just a little tip.

jb

You seem to think just like greg. I have never come close to saying I know it all, or much of anything for that matter. Some of the guys just don't like it because I won't worship their passports. I dislike internet snobs and there are at least two or three on here. I have been many, many places in the military. Enough to know that I can get by anywhere whether my passport has been stamped previously or not. Are you telling me that Ukraine is so different, so special that is takes skills beyond that of other non English speaking countries? I say so what if I get lost, get scammed or whatever. I have been through much worse then that and here I am. Seems like some are much more delicate.

No, I am not the least bit impressed by someone who has a stamped passport. I am much more impressed with someone who answers questions without sarcasm, provides a trip report (which seems to be a dangerous thing to do around here), or is generally helpful to others. Much of what I have seen from greg is sarcasm towards me and a few others.

Curious you didn't tell greg to dial it down also. You must not read his posts.

[BC]

Some of the guys just don't like it because I won't worship their passports. I dislike internet snobs and there are at least two or three on here. I have been many, many places in the military. Enough to know that I can get by anywhere whether my passport has been stamped previously or not. Are you telling me that Ukraine is so different, so special that is takes skills beyond that of other non English speaking countries? I say so what if I get lost, get scammed or whatever. I have been through much worse then that and here I am. Seems like some are much more delicate.

Funk,

jb was actually being quite nice.  Your reference of 'internet snobs' couldn't be more off the mark.  There is no 'pecking order' around here, just guys with more FSU experience than others.

You mention military travel experience.. whether that is active duty or as dependent I can relate..  Quite a 'sheltered life'.. right down to the butterball turkey at Thanksgiving...  - nothing close to true 'reality', living overseas without that umbilical cord or ID card.  You may have been 'exposed' to different cultures but that's about it.

In that respect, Ukraine or other parts of FSU are indeed 'so different'..  I'm sure you or your parents weren't stationed there.

Learn from guys that have been where you want to go, or are where you want to be..  After all that's what this forum is all about.

[KenC]

Funkola,
Your opinions far exceed your experience and therefore are not relevant.  What some here are trying to inform you of, is that until you actually experience going to the fsu, your input on the subject should be more geared to questions because you do not have the experience for the answers.  Snobbery?  No, just the way it is.  You can learn a lot here if you do more reading and less typing.  Unless of course you have questions.
KenC

[funkola]

You mention military travel experience.. whether that is active duty or as dependent I can relate..  Quite a 'sheltered life'.. right down to the butterball turkey at Thanksgiving...  - nothing close to true 'reality', living overseas without that umbilical cord or ID card.  You may have been 'exposed' to different cultures but that's about it.


Learn from guys that have been where you want to go, or are where you want to be..  After all that's what this forum is all about.

I guess we have had different military experiences.    You can't possibly know what I have experienced.

Would love to learn some things here. And I have. But I doubt I will learn anything from people whose main purpose is picking apart other peoples post. Those people are internet snobs.

For example I learned a lot more from Kuna's trip report than I have from from the six or so people who had nothing but negative comments about it. Truthfully, I learned something from those people too. But it won't be of any use to me in Ukraine.

[funkola]

Funkola,
Your opinions far exceed your experience and therefore are not relevant.  What some here are trying to inform you of, is that until you actually experience going to the fsu, your input on the subject should be more geared to questions because you do not have the experience for the answers.  Snobbery?  No, just the way it is.  You can learn a lot here if you do more reading and less typing.  Unless of course you have questions.
KenC

Oh please. I have asked questions and the only time I remember offering my opinion was when the mir had two dates in one building. To me that was a dating issue not a Ukraine issue so responded.

Don't let the false claims in gregs posts influence you please. I have not pretended to know anything about Ukraine on here. I just don't get the chicken$hit attitude some have about traveling and how confusing and dangerous it is. Geez, grow up guys. 

And honestly the only reason I have even engaged in this is due to a couple of unwarranted insults directed at me when I was at my harmless best. I'm not one to rudeness go unchecked. Hence, here we are.

[Bruce]

Buying train tickets..................now that is one sick experience if I can say so myself.  Wait in a long winding line with Babushka's cutting in and out.  They go to the line, say save my space and come back 30 minutes later.   By the time you get up to the point where you can see the one window stacked with two other people comming to the one open window asking questions you just have to laugh - because here come a few Babushka back in to claim their spot.  Then the old guy with two medals walks right up and everyone else lets him cut in to the very front (rightly so in their cases) then another.  Oh yeah, getting train tickets in one of those backward small city FSU train stations can be the pits.  Then the big dude wants to cut up front, till a Babushka or two tell him off.  Obtaining a train ticket.  Yes, that is one of the perfect things to let a guide do for you.  Hopefully, the guide knows the people on the inside and can just somehow call in and pick up your ticket for you without dealing with the line...................and it is just as I described it plus more - think hot, dirty, dusty, dogs comming in and out, summer, insects flying around, some kids running around and screeming, smelly - yeah, those people on line regularly shower...........forget about it.   

Good thread.  Sorry to see some advice from the adviceless, but best to be inclusive.  Where are those gals married to guys in the FSU and living there???