Relocating

[Kuna]

Sorry but I think I'd rather see China in the lead, Russia tends to do things a$$ backwards, where at least the Chinese are organized & more productive. Russia tends to have a very narrow outlook of the world where China tends to think globally. China may be communist but at least they prospered under communism where Russia failed at it miserably & now they are failing at democracy.
JMHO of course.

I do business in China and let me promise you they have a bizarre view of the world too.  If you want to do business in China you will also pay bribes one way or another.  Corruption and fraud is rife and as soon as you shake a mans hand you must remember he is thinking of ways to get into your pockets.

Their sense of fairness is vastly different to the west and they might seem technologically advanced when you visit the big cities but there are still many millions of people in China struggling to survive on a daily basis.

I recently met one "dude" in a white linen suit who tried to sell us a share in his Gas pipeline to Russia and a company he owned that had developed some a utility metering technology.  I went to "Shangers" to meet him and look at one other business. He didn't have a gas pipeline and didn't own the metering business... but he really wanted to do the deal!   

The other company I looked at did exist and they did have staff.  On investigation I discovered they were looking for USD$5M to pay off a previous investor who had been burnt.  That in itself isn't so bad but by chance I met the other investor and he only invested USD$3M so there was a margin to pay to get this company out of trouble.

NEVER assume businesses in other countries operate under the same business ethics or legal structures as we do in the west. If China ever becomes the new world superpower we'll have to learn how to do business with them and comply...  or become colonies that simply provide raw produce and minerals to someone who may or not pay us.

The cultural differences make life interesting!

Kuna

[Phil dAmore]

I've been here going on 5 years now and like Richard am becoming very disillusioned with things.  Not that I'm planning to head back to the states any time soon, but it may be time to get out of St. Petersburg.  Apartment prices are through the roof and I could sell my little 57.9 meter place for over 5 times what I paid for it, and probably have it sold by the end of the week.

Petersburg, like Moscow before it, is rapidly turning into another Aspen, or San Tropez, or Goa.  Everything is VIP-this and Elite-that.  On what I earn as an English teacher there is no way I could afford to live here if it involved paying rent.

I'm keeping a very close eye on what is happening politically in Russia and the vibe I'm getting is one of uncertainty following Putin's leaving office.  From the way things are being set up I don't expect any significant change, but the growing anti-immigrant sentiment isn't going to stop once all the Azerbaijanis, Afghanis, Latvians, etc. are removed from the country... Sooner or later it's going to spill over to citizens of Western nations.

Now is NOT a good time to seriously consider moving to Russia, IMO.

[Bruce]

Nat, I do not have the time to go through point by point.  However, MIL was just here in NYC for an extended stay.  She reminds me a lot of Elen ie. everything is better in Russia.  By the time she left the only thing she believes is better in Russia is the taste of vegetabes she grows in her kitchen garden (which she could grow here by the way if she had time) and potatoes.  The taste of Russian potatoes - thats it plain and simple.  By the way, I've been to St. Petersburg, Moscow, Novosibirsk, Kiev, Kharkov, Barnaul, Biisk, Tver and many little places in and around and between.
Besides the political unrest that Richard and Phil alude to above is not a minor point at all to consider.  How would you like to live in a place where at any moment someone could knock on your door, have you arrested and take every possession you have? 

[Mir]

Interstingly a recent article in Economist about the most expensive cities in the world does not list any Russian or Ukrainian city in the top 10 !


http://money.uk.msn.com/Specials/Holiday_Money/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3820938

[Leslie]

CNN rates Moscow as the worlds most expensive city and in real estate terms it certainly is!!  Here is the link -

http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/23/pf/expensive_cities/

In the past we seriously considered living in Kiev.  Now we can't afford to!  An apartment wchich cost $60000 in 2002 is half a million now...

I was always uncertain on this because it would be very difficult to run a business in Ukraine.   

Retirement to the Krym is an option for some but I need to consider education for Tamara.  So apart from extended holidays I think we will be staying in the EU or the states.

[Phil dAmore]

How would you like to live in a place where at any moment someone could knock on your door, have you arrested and take every possession you have? 

I'd say it sounds a lot like the USA.  At least in Russia they knock on the door first.  In the states, they bust into your house in the middle of the night wearing body armor, throw you to the floor and turn your house upside down looking for incriminating evidence... all based on a tip from an
anonymous informant. 

[Bruce]

Phil, got to disagree with you on the above post.  I've never heard of that happening to anyone here but for people in the projects with mistaken identities. 

[Phil dAmore]

Phil, got to disagree with you on the above post.  I've never heard of that happening to anyone here but for people in the projects with mistaken identities. 

It happens far more often than you may think, and not just to people living in the projects...

I'm not in the habit of reccomending blogs, but this is a good one http://www.theagitator.com/archives/cat_paramilitary_police_raids.php

Scroll through it all and follow the links. 

[Rvrwind]

As for me, I'd prefer to live under the benevolent rule of the Canadians!  lol

Now there's a smart man!!!
Of course it will only work if I am running the place. The fools that are doing it now are severely handicapped!!! Of course better the Consevatives than the Liberals!!!

[ScottinCrimea]

I made the decision to move to Ukraine even though it meant giving up a very profitable medical practice.  Why?  Because I preferred to make the adjustment to a new culture rather than subject my wife and her daughter to the pain.  I was also looking to have a simpler life, away from the incredible stresses of life in the US.  You don't really comprehend how bad this is until you are away from it completly for a period of time.  I figure I've added probably 10 years to my life by moving here. I sense a real concern about the political instability in Russia but I don't have any experience with that.  As for Ukraine, I don't see as much.  There are ways to adjust to the inconveniences here.  For example, I purchased a new apartment that was basically stone walls and my wife designed everything and supervised the complete remodel.  Our apartment is nicer than any I lived in in the US.  We have a separate water and gas system so are not subject to it being turned off at random hours.  to pay our utilities (about $50 a month) we walk down to the office on the first floor. We live downtown so everything is available within walking distance so no need to deal with the hassles of owning and driving a car here.  I've been able to find substitutes for just about every ingredient I need to cook here and what I can't get here I have sent from the US.  The quality of food in the local supermarkets is excellent but I still do most of my shopping at the central outdoor market which is a 5 minute walk from my apartment.  There are enough cultural events and entertainment options here to satisfy me.  I was recently back in the US and reconfirmed that I like living better here.  I live a much simpler life and don't feel driven to have "more and bigger"
     I understand the concern about the medical system here, but I have a definite advantage being a doctor because I can treat myself and my family in most cases and if help is required I can monitor the treatment.
     I agree that the opportunities for employment are much fewer here, but that's not really a concern for me  some real estate investments we are working on will provide enough to live comfortably once finished.  In the meantime we still struggle financially on occasion and I do some sidework to make ends meet, but we own everything, owe nothing and the future looks good.  Heck, once I start getting Social Security, we'll be living like kings!
     My opinion is that if you are trying to build a life, the US is a better place to be.  If you have done that and now want to live your life, this is the place.  It's cheaper, slower paced and for me, quite comfortable.  I als count it as very good luck that my wife lived in Crimea.  I miss the California weather, but at least I'm in the warmest place in the FSU.

[Bruce]

Scott, I envy you.  It does sound like you set up your own paradise in the Ukraine.  It did not cost you much and if you had to flee one day you could.  Right now things seem much more Western friendly in Ukraine than in Russia so you are in the better of the two countries.  As far as stability of the Ukrainian government who knows - though it appears things are progressing toward increasing rather than decreasing stability as well as economic progress for Ukraine as a whole.  Things can change like the wind though.  I suspect once a new US President arrives on the scene relations with Russia will improve, but that is just my guess.  If Russia really decided to take back Ukraine firmly into its orbit, watch out.............

[Elen]

Would not mind anybody expalin me what would ScottinCrimea  lose in the Ukraina ( from what he described in his post) if something changed in foreigner politic of the USA or Russia? ( like Bruce "guessed") Just can't get what could it be

[Nat]

Concerning "who'll be ruling the word's economy" – do you really want to be ruled by Chinese, Canadians, Russians, anybody? Oh, if the rulers changed constantly, what would happen with cash investments? Now dollar and euro are ruling currencies, because USA and EU are ruling the world economy, and I’d rather it to be so, because converting everything to Yuan or Canadian dollars would be at least problematic for National Banks

[funkola]

Thanks for that post! It gave me some perspective and actually makes Ukraine even more appealing.

I made the decision to move to Ukraine even though it meant giving up a very profitable medical practice.  Why?  Because I preferred to make the adjustment to a new culture rather than subject my wife and her daughter to the pain.  I was also looking to have a simpler life, away from the incredible stresses of life in the US.  You don't really comprehend how bad this is until you are away from it completly for a period of time.  I figure I've added probably 10 years to my life by moving here. I sense a real concern about the political instability in Russia but I don't have any experience with that.  As for Ukraine, I don't see as much.  There are ways to adjust to the inconveniences here.  For example, I purchased a new apartment that was basically stone walls and my wife designed everything and supervised the complete remodel.  Our apartment is nicer than any I lived in in the US.  We have a separate water and gas system so are not subject to it being turned off at random hours.  to pay our utilities (about $50 a month) we walk down to the office on the first floor. We live downtown so everything is available within walking distance so no need to deal with the hassles of owning and driving a car here.  I've been able to find substitutes for just about every ingredient I need to cook here and what I can't get here I have sent from the US.  The quality of food in the local supermarkets is excellent but I still do most of my shopping at the central outdoor market which is a 5 minute walk from my apartment.  There are enough cultural events and entertainment options here to satisfy me.  I was recently back in the US and reconfirmed that I like living better here.  I live a much simpler life and don't feel driven to have "more and bigger"
     I understand the concern about the medical system here, but I have a definite advantage being a doctor because I can treat myself and my family in most cases and if help is required I can monitor the treatment.
     I agree that the opportunities for employment are much fewer here, but that's not really a concern for me  some real estate investments we are working on will provide enough to live comfortably once finished.  In the meantime we still struggle financially on occasion and I do some sidework to make ends meet, but we own everything, owe nothing and the future looks good.  Heck, once I start getting Social Security, we'll be living like kings!
     My opinion is that if you are trying to build a life, the US is a better place to be.  If you have done that and now want to live your life, this is the place.  It's cheaper, slower paced and for me, quite comfortable.  I als count it as very good luck that my wife lived in Crimea.  I miss the California weather, but at least I'm in the warmest place in the FSU.

[ScottinCrimea]

     I don't know that I would lose all that much if the politics changed here or if Ukraine were to move closer to Russia.  All of our property is in my wife's name and is paid for, so unless they start confiscating private property from their citizens, we're safe.  We bought before the real estate prices skyrocketed so even if they return to previous levels, it doesn't hurt us unless our intent were to sell, which it isn't.  I'm not sure how relations will change between the US and Russia with a new president.  If he/she is seen as a firm, strong leader, Russia will have the same complaints.  If they are seen as weak, Russia will exploit this.  I think the more that countries that don't have the US's best interest at heart complain, the better the president is doing.  When they're quiet and happy, it's then we have to worry.
     Now despite the rosy picture I have painted of living here, there are some things that are quite frankly a pain in the keester.  You can either learn to accept them as a trade-off for those you left behind in the US or complain about them and go back to the pains you are more used to.

[funkola]

ScottinCrimea I haven't read all of your posts so excuse me if this is something I should know

Are you practicing medicine in Ukraine?

[William3rd]

Scott- good reasoning for emigrating. less stress and added years of life. Which is why I am moving to Thailand in a few more years. Six and counting I think. My house is about 25% complete. . . .

To see the development, you can go to baanchonrada.com.

[ScottinCrimea]

I'm not practicing medicine in Ukraine.  At one time I looked at getting my credentials here and actually started the process,  but it was such a hassle that I decided it wasn't worth it, especially for the low pay that doctors get here.  I have found some creative ways to use my medical skills, but that's a topic for another time.  I do some things with the local Medical Institute and am involved with some medical charity groups, but on a fairly informal basis.