Latest Demands from Jim . . .

[funkola]

I'm with you Wiz in that I could care less about the problems between these guys. Other than that I have no thoughts on the matter.

Dan

May I remind you that the Name of this discussion board is all about Russian women?

I think none of the members who are here to find information, read interesting stories and travel reports and of course post their views are interested to know or read about the squabbles between the Agency and sites owners or anybody else involved in these wars.

I don’t think many of us normal members want to know what is going on behind the scenes and you should close this thread down. Do not spoil this good forum by allowing or instigating any kind of debate regarding this subject.

Personally I am here to talk and debate about RUSSIAN WOMEN and any subject in connection to that and not the Financial interests of the various interested parties in the MOB business.

That is my view and is obvious from the very small number of people who have voted sofar, that the subject is boring and irrelevant for us!

[Rvrwind]

* If you are from one of these sites and DO care about scammers. Contact me for removal. You have 2 strikes against you. After our discussion of the problem, I will either move you to the White List or Grey List. It's ALL up to you.

What a pompass a$$!!!
He has my IP blocked if you hadn't printed this Jack I would never have known it was a threat to my agency.
Well Jim has escalated this war & he picked the wrong guy to start screwing with cause I'll rip him a new one!!
I have given him 72 hours to remove my site from his totally, I don't want to see it there at all & if it isn't removed he will be dealing with my lawyer because I'm not gonna pussy foot around with this hairball. He best be able to prove every slanderous word because I'll come at him with both barrels! loaded!!
If you think I'm jokin' Jimmy boy, try me. I can prove your a thief, you admited it, I can prove your a liar, about my site as well as others. You just picked a fight with the wrong Cowboy & you shoulda left me out of it!!! All I asked was to be removed, I have that right & if I don't get removed I'll seek satisfaction through the court, you really want to go there? :burnedup: :seething:

[KenC]

I wasn't going to post in this topic anymore because I feel it's waste of space, but KenC's comments really "rubbed me the wrong way"

 Yes, Wiz maybe in the minority in his thinking about this topic, count me as part of that minority too, but we are allowed to voice our opinions are we not? What was the point of starting a poll if everyone is expected to vote the same way? Kinda sounds like elections in Belarus, and anyone that speaks in the minority is quickly shot down...freedom of speech you say?  There is not as much freedom here as I would like there to be, but that's another topic.

Just a little melodramatic, don't you think?   You do have the freedom to post your opinion here no matter how anyone else feels about it.  And that is the whole point that you seem to miss.  I could give a sh!t less about Jim, his list or his feud with Jack and now Dan, but I do care when someone tries to use their influence to alter or censor what has been said here because they don't agree.  Your "freedoms" were stifled for being argumentative, personal attacks against members and for being contrary to the TOS here.  BIG difference, Dude.

 

As for Jim, well I never talked to the guy, never heard his side of the story, so I wrote him yesterday, and he wrote back. I won't post anything he said here, and I can't speak for him, but I didn't get the impression he has it out for Dan, or is trying to blackmail him, or extort him...these are words many of you are using, but who said them? Is Dan even saying that?  Before you pass judgements on people don't you think it's fair to hear both sides of the story?

Again, you just don't "get it."  It isn't the contents of the posts (which were opinions that you so holy worship) but the concept that Jim said he would continue to list RWD as a scam site unless the threads were removed.  Unless YOU think that RWD IS a scam site, that should piss you off.  It does me.  Threats like this and scummy tactics like this cannot be considered anything less than extortion or blackmail.  I guess it is just the guys with principals that concern themselves with such things.
 

Like BillyB said in an earlier post, both of these men our trying to help men in their pursuit of RW, but it's also a business, and sometimes these kind of disputes happen, it doesn't mean either one of them are bad people, it's just a situation where a compromise is diffucult to find, but I think they are trying...Dan wouldn't ask our advice if he didn't at least consider it.
 I do happen to agree with Wiz, I don't know why this is all being played out here, I think that is part of the problem with the negotiations. No one is taking shots at Dan, like Wiz, I also respect him, but that doesn't mean we are not allowed to question him at times.

Like I said before, you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.  And I am entitled to disagree.
KenC

[jinx13]

Your "freedoms" were stifled for being argumentative, personal attacks against members and for being contrary to the TOS here.  BIG difference, Dude.

 Not completely true, but true in some cases yes, and I have admitted my fault, but there have been many other times when I was told to shut up for no good reason...can send you a PM, I don't want to get into it here.

 

Again, you just don't "get it."  It isn't the contents of the posts (which were opinions that you so holy worship) but the concept that Jim said he would continue to list RWD as a scam site unless the threads were removed.  Unless YOU think that RWD IS a scam site, that should piss you off.  It does me.  Threats like this and scummy tactics like this cannot be considered anything less than extortion or blackmail.  I guess it is just the guys with principals that concern themselves with such things.

 http://www.jimslists.com/agencies/planetlove.html    I don't see RWD members being attacked here, just a personal battle between Jim, Dan & ****

 Look I don't agree or disagree with either party, and I do think putting Tver Angels on a black or grey list for asking to be removed is BS, should be on the white list or whatever, but Rverwind is caught up in this battle too, it's unfortunate, people are taking sides, when they really should be trying to resolve this and not hurt their respective business's.

 

Like I said before, you are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.  And I am entitled to disagree.
KenC

 I guess whether an opinion is right or wrong depends on your interpretation, but yeah, you can disagree...it happens a lot on forums I think, nothing new 



 

[Admin]

 Not completely true, but true in some cases yes, and I have admitted my fault, but there have been many other times when I was told to shut up for no good reason...can send you a PM, I don't want to get into it here.

 
 http://www.jimslists.com/agencies/planetlove.html    I don't see RWD members being attacked here, just a personal battle between Jim, Dan & ****

 Look I don't agree or disagree with either party, and I do think putting Tver Angels on a black or grey list for asking to be removed is BS, should be on the white list or whatever, but Rverwind is caught up in this battle too, it's unfortunate, people are taking sides, when they really should be trying to resolve this and not hurt their respective business's.

 
 I guess whether an opinion is right or wrong depends on your interpretation, but yeah, you can disagree...it happens a lot on forums I think, nothing new 

Actually, the precipitant was Jim's unilateral and unwarranted listing of RWD on his Blacklist, and his subsequent 'King of the World' demands, assertions, and tactics. Since then, things have gone downhill. I have made multiple attempts to seek genuine peace - and have offered solutions to Jim's gripes, and paths to successful outcomes, on multiple occasions. Most have been met with insulting and vulgar replies. Many have been copied on the entire exchange and see the situation clearly.

You want to see "personal" - notice this -- http://www.jimslists.com/bitch.html - from Jim's "Shit-Kick List." Nice title eh?

Look - I don't post my feelings about Jim on the open forum - or at least, VERY little. For one, it would be boorish to be obviously attacking someone who is not here to offer counterpoint. For another, it would be unproductive. I could also copy a BOATLOAD of excerpts from the person who was acting as an intermediary, and nearly all are supporting my position - but that would also be unproductive in that it doesn't get us any closer to a reasonable outcome.

David, if you think you can gain a sense of the guy from a single email exchange - more power to you.

For my part, I am resigned to the fact that there are some people in the world who are unable, or unwilling, to work towards a mutually-acceptable outcome. I have met a couple of them in other walks of life. This is no different. I will deal with it.

For the part which affected RWD members - the demand from Jim that more than 25 of our members be censored - that's what the poll was all about - and I am pretty clear on the outcome.

Thanks,

- Dan

[BillyB]

Sometimes I wonder why America isn't tougher on Iran and North Korea and give into real blackmail. But I hope our leaders know what their doing. It's going to hurt no matter what is decided but it's smart to take the road of least amount of hurt whatever that may be.

It's best if Everybody erases everything said against each other and start fresh. If Everybody works together to help their fellow man in this endeavor, great. If they are competetors, then let the best man win without throwing mud at each other.

Or we could be proud and stand ground and take the road that hurts most. Keep throwing mud and maintain freedom of speech and Jim will maintain his. Jim won't censor RWD and RWD won't censor Jim. It's a free for all. Already some agencies will think Jim has gone nuts and refuse to be listed on his site and threaten lawsuits. Some agencies will stick with Jim if they feel they can help them financially more than CMA. Jim, Jack, Dan and his partners will all suffer. The people they want to help will suffer. I guess people will sue/slander each other till the end if necessary? It would be easy for me to say let my posts stand in the threads in question because I'm not going to take a hit in my pocketbook.

Richard, I don't believe your agency should be on that new list of Jims. I hope Jim is reading this. Jim, if you continue to introduce your personal feelings into your business creating a bias, people and agencies at your site will notice and you will become less and less of a factor when people are searching for truth.

Gentlemen, there are some things worth fighting for till the end, this mud slinging contest is not one of them.

Dan, you imply Jim may not want to work towards a mutually-acceptable outcome. Will he erase everything toward you and Jack? I read on his site that said "the 3 of us are on the same side. None of us is a scam. I have been more than willing, for years, to live in harmony (agree to disagree)." Will you allow Jim to participate in this thread to help resolve the issues? Although you are courteous to take this issue to a vote, obviously you want this crap to come to a an end. I believe Jim does too because he's not enjoying it since it makes him look bad. What's the hangup? Pride? Ego? I wouldn't be surprised, there's plenty of that going around.

[Admin]

Dan, you imply Jim may not want to work towards a mutually-acceptable outcome. Will he erase everything toward you and Jack? I read on his site that said "the 3 of us are on the same side. None of us is a scam. I have been more than willing, for years, to live in harmony (agree to disagree)." Will you allow Jim to participate in this thread to help resolve the issues? Although you are courteous to take this issue to a vote, obviously you want this crap to come to a an end. I believe Jim does too because he's not enjoying it since it makes him look bad. What's the hangup? Pride? Ego? I wouldn't be surprised, there's plenty of that going around.

Billy,

Jim writes a LOT of things on his sites - take a look and see just how much you agree with. I need to be careful here - as this is the edge of a slippery slope that could quickly devolve into a bashing topic - and that was not what I intended with the poll. Suffice to say, after many months of trying to be reasonable, polite and balanced, I would not put much faith (as in NONE) in anything Jim writes - on his sites, or in email. I do not trust the man.

As I mentioned up-thread, he has been invited here to RWD by many people, on many occasions. If you care to try, please do. As I also mentioned, he will be offered that someone other than me will be asked to watch over his posts, and I will intentionally step out of any direct role with him.

As for what Jim wants - he made it clear that, in return for his removal of the mixture of lies and distortions he has posted about RWD, CMA and me on his sites - he wants the things listed in this poll removed from RWD. As Bruno pointed out - earlier in the exchange, he wanted much more than just those 3 items - but this is his latest demand - which was followed with a notation that "anything less is a No Deal."

I posted the poll because I am not so arrogant as to believe I know it all - and there is always the possibility I am mistaken. I raised this poll so that I could be certain of the wishes of the RWD members. That is my constituency - and admittedly, Jim does not share that constituency - so perhaps that is the rub. I don't think so - but perhaps.

- Dan

[BillyB]

Dan,

I don't trust everything Jim said is true at his site and as I implied before, him letting his personal feelings get involved in his business will hurt his credibility.

But Jim's character has been attacked long before CMA came about and things have been brewing since. Now people are putting massive amounts of effort into destroying each other. Whether you attack a good or bad man's character, you are most likely going to get a reaction you're not going to like. We're looking at the results right now. Everybody including Jim doesn't like it. It doesn't matter who started attacking each others character first at this point.

I've debated Jim once on a forum before and mentioned he made a mistake on where he placed an agency. I did not attack his character, just his mistake IMO, and he did not go ballistic on me. It was a productive debate. If I called him a liar, scammer, untrustworthy and attacked his whole site based on a few issues I agree on with him, I should expect the debate to take a dump. Jim should not be surprised that the mud slinging constest has been escalated on himself for what he said of others.

No anti-scam site is perfect and even the list at RWD for anti-scam sites aren't perfect IMO. I feel http://www.anti-scam.org/ should be in the "questionable" column because they are owned by Army of Brides which has a bad name in this industry. They have, when forced by clients, blacklisted women at their site but never mentioned they were found at Army of Brides but other agencies. They also ask for donations. The anti-scam site's donations goes to the office of Army of Brides. I certainly won't attack the character of the person who might have listed that anti-scam site as reliable.

If I get this story wrong, forgive me but I was only a kid at the time. Ronald Reagan had a policy by refusing to deal with terrorist. But he got caught giving weapons to Iran in return Iran would persuade terrorists to give up the American hostages they held. I don't know whether we should thank Reagan or scold him but there really wasn't a right or wrong answer in a situation like this. Certainly if he was stubborn and stuck to his principle, an American could've died in the hostage situation. Being a leader of a nation isn't always easy and you sometimes must deal with nations you detest.

Dan this is your business that feeds your family and you have partners to answer to. Same with Jim? If it came down to erasing my posts or feeding your family, feed your family, you're not going to hurt my feelings.

I e-mailed Jim to join in on the fun.

[Admin]

Dan this is your business that feeds your family and you have partners to answer to. Same with Jim? If it came down to erasing my posts or feeding your family, feed your family, you're not going to hurt my feelings.

I e-mailed Jim to join in on the fun.

Billy,

Actually, my primary business is that I own a consulting company providing Project Management consulting, mentorship and training. I hold a number of professional certifications and founded the Kyiv Chapter of Project Management Institute way back in 1999.

The work of IR (RWD, CMA, etc.) is more a 'hobby' than a "business" and it certainly does not feed my family. It barely pays for itself - I *think*.

I appreciate your willingness to sacrifice your posts - seriously, I *do* appreciate it. At this point, I have no confidence in Jim and what he claims he will do - and I've resigned myself to let this play out in whatever form or fashion it naturally takes.

Thanks for the efforts.

- Dan

[CG]

Dan,

Maybe you should take a long hard look at where these wars always seem to originate?

Maybe you can't see it, but you get dragged into these BS conflicts by blindly defending or automatically siding with a certain sociopathic agency owner.

Don't believe me? Ask Jet. Anyone who's tried to start a war with someone like Jet should tell you where the real problem lies (hey Jet, whassup? Sorry to drag you into this, but Dan needs to understand the core problem, or it'll just keep repeating with different individuals like Stirlitz, Doug Salem, etc.)

Moy dva kopecks.

~CG

[Kuna]

HAHAHAHA...

I wasn't going to post here but I just read the links to Jim's site and I just have to!!!

The guy is a lunatic and has no concept of creating a good brand in business.

I found his site before I found RWD and spent a lot of time reading it.  At first (because I was blind to the whole business) I actually appreciated some of the content. As I kept reading I was wary of his information because it was written with too much emotion and not enough fact.  He tries to include fact but most of everything he writes is full of holes.

Eventually I decided the information on his site was worthless.

Later I found RWD and I was concerned with some of the personal posts I saw before joining.  In a very short period of time I discovered the value in debate and still appreciate the opinions of the men with experience.  The diversity of experience is what makes RWD valuable. There's no diversity in Jim's content.  It's the ravings on one small individual!

If you care to read the links to Jim's site (included above) you'll read the ramblings of a twisted individual.  I could respond to some of his accusations and I'm standing on the sideline... his ranting is really quite something!   

Ya know... I've been watching this thread and been getting itchy to get into the fight because I felt like RWD was being attacked and I think that's unfair.

After reading Jim's posts I realise he is the one condemning his own site.  When people read his words they will feel the emotion and venom and he is actually doing RWD a great favour by advertising Dan's URLs. Nice work Jim...  you're a nice guy afterall!

I say let's just wind him up and keep him going...  he could be the best audience development tool RWD could have!

This is really too funny for words...  Good luck Jim, I think you need it!

 

Kuna

[Rvrwind]

I for one would love to have Jim come here & explain his audacity at having the nerve to stick my company on the list he has now & then if I don't kowtow to his demands put us on his Grey or Black lists. He hasn't answered my emails so I doubt he will come here.
I know little about the other company that he has put there with me but I suspect they feel the same way I do.
We have never had a complaint or anybody who has ever claimed they met a scammer at our agency. The only negative comment ever mentioned was with Gerry, which wasn't really negative but more of a misunderstanding, which we addressed & settled. Nothing negative has ever been posted or reported about us.
Due to that I am wondering how he can justify his actions? Certainly as a Scam Site owner he can list any & all agencies with or without their permission but they should be listed appropriately. He wants to keep my site listed, fine, but list me under sites that don't want to be listed & leave it at that, but don't accuse my company of having scammers or being a scam agency because that is an outright lie & I WILL defend that to the death! Leave out the derogatory diatribe & I have no problem.
He has no reason to Black List us other than we asked to be removed from his site, that is not justification for him to slander or libel my company.
In the long run I suppose he is hurting his own reputation by doing this but in the short run it hurts my business & that in itself gives me grounds for filing a lawsuit. I don't want to do that if I can avoid it, they are messy & the only real winners are the lawyers, but I won't have him besmirch our reputation with outright lies. He can't win this, I am in the right & I will defend my honor & my company to my last drop of blood!
If he can prove I am wrong & my company is a scam & we have scammers then by all means I wish him to show me the proof & I will accept that decision but he better have irrefutable proof. I learned a long time ago that you just can't arbitrarily do things like this you need hard evidence to back you up. I want to see that evidence. Otherwise the current situation had best change drastically.
I've calmed down some & am thinking more clearly, but I still will not permit this situation to continue.
As they say "Show me the money!"

Kuna I applaud you for having the intelligence to realize this but many guys take his word at face value, but then again maybe many don't because I just read on the other board about a guy who recently got burned by BH. Considering Jim Blacklisted this company with plenty of proof I might add it surprises me that anybody till uses them. But perhaps I am correct in my assumption that Jim's List no longer carries any weight & guys ignore him, which is unfortunate because it is they who suffer the consequences.
If you want to set yourself up as the Internet cop in this industry then as in real life you cannot make arbitrary decisions. You must be fair & unbiased, otherwise you are no better than the crooks that you claim to be fighting, just as a cop takes bribes or doesn't is what makes him a good or bad cop. If your going to walk the highroad you need to walk it carefully & consistently, you cannot be seen to waver or falter as that only hurts your credibility.

Also the mere fact that he blocks IPs from the FSU is contemptable. I cannot even see my listing or read what he says about my company as many others cannot either. I have to get second hand reports from others. This is a cowardly act as far as I am concerned & if Jim feels his listing are correct & honorable, why is it necessary to hide them from more than half of the agencies list on his site? ???

You know what Jim says on his web site...  If he doesn't get a reply to emails he assume the worse (sic)

Kuna he never even sent me an email, just arbitrarily listed my company as a scam site supporting & recruiting scammers, an outright lie!

[Kuna]

You know what Jim says on his web site...  If he doesn't get a reply to emails he assume the worse (sic).   

[CG]

He has no reason to Black List us other than we asked to be removed from his site, that is not justification for him to slander or libel my company.
In the long run I suppose he is hurting his own reputation by doing this but in the short run it hurts my business & that in itself gives me grounds for filing a lawsuit. I don't want to do that if I can avoid it, they are messy & the only real winners are the lawyers, but I won't have him besmirch our reputation with outright lies. He can't win this, I am in the right & I will defend my honor & my company to my last drop of blood!

Richard, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. You're not black-listed, you're not gray-listed, you're not being accused of any type of dishonesty or scamming. You've simply been placed on the refused list -- exactly as you requested. In case you haven't seen the actual site, here's what it says:

"Who is on the Refused List?

Here is the deal with these sites. There are 2 kinds. Some said that they do not want to be on my White or Gold List. (Bottom)

Some are not concerned about scammers (Top) They allow scammers to run free on their sites. This builds up their database. So, guys spend money and then contact scammers. They lose money there, then maybe they lose money to the scammer. Is it not unethical to make money from allowing scammers on your site? I think so.

If you don't agree, fine. Go ahead and use these sites.

* If you are from one of these sites and DO care about scammers. Contact me for removal. You have 2 strikes against you. After our discussion of the problem, I will either move you to the White List or Grey List. It's ALL up to you.

These are the Unconcerned Agencies/Sites

Adult Love Line

Cheeky Flirt

Cute and Single

Dating Central

Dating Spaces

Dream Dates

Dream Mates

Eve Kiss

Find Someone

Friend Search

Global Email Club

JumpDates

loveandfriends.com

Lonely Fire

Love.org

Love Access

Love Town

Match America

Meet Russian Brides

Mingles

RSVP

Single Parent Meet

Singles Seek

Sk Singles

Swiss Friends (swissfriends.ch)

UDate

Web Date


These are the Agencies/Sites That Refused to be on my Sites:

International Introductions (Latin Wife)

Tver Angels"


So what's the big deal? If you refuse to be on any list, it looks like you'll remain on the Refused List!

Shouldn't people who are accusing Jim of all sorts of inaccuracies and untruths be accurate themselves, or is truth the first casualty of war?

This whole thing was started by a sociopathic agency owner (not Rvrwind) and his Eternal Enemies List. Everyone else should take a lesson from Kevin Hayes and choose your battles carefully. Like Iraq, this is a war that ultimately serves no one.

~CG 

[Admin]

Marty,

You may be correct. It is possible this whole thing started because Jim and Jack hate one another, and because I have a friendly relationship with Jack, I was drawn in. Maybe.

So if that is true - then what is the path forward? Sever relations to Jack because others don't like him? There are plenty of people who I get along with great, and who also do not like Jack. My association with Jack does not preclude me from having friendly associations with others who dislike Jack.

If there are people who are making the choice to dislike me or refuse to associate with me or refuse to participate at RWD because I own it AND I have a friendly association with Jack (and there ARE) - there isn't too much I can do about that. As I understand it, you too have had some major issues with Jack over the years, and it may be you are not entirely objective - would you agree?

As for your second post - did you happen to review the site just yesterday? If you had reviewed the site, you would have seen that NO distinction was made, and Richard's site was thrown into the same group as all the others - just a single list. Moreover, it is important to consider what was being requested. The request was made for REMOVAL from his sites altogether. That is not what happened.

There are a LOT of shenanigans being played - and the johnny-come-lately's who choose to get involved at this point are seeing a VERY small and distorted corner of the overall canvas.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

CG,

 You are in the wrong business. There is a senior government position waiting for you somewhere. Anyone who can rewrite history with their own spin on it that quickly is in high demand! Check out GovernmentJobs.com.

Ken

 

[Jack]

Oh don't you like these guys who just love to mis-lead.


Marty has posted a reply with what is on Jim's List this morning.   "Richard" Marty says, "your not grey-listed".   

Well Marty, your reading todays newest version of Jim's List.  What Richard found out yesterday was what Jim had posted on his list at that time, which was also posted the day before that and the day before that, etc. 

Once what Jim had done was posted here yesterday,  "whoaaaaaa, I better change this in a hurry"  Jim must have said.   And ole Marty is just a little late on what Jim had previously posted.

I will show you both versions below to we can show both sides, not just Marty's cleaned up version after Jim had got caught with his prefered way of doing things.


Marty  per your quote to Richard this morning   "You've simply been placed on the refused list -- exactly as you requested."     Marty, do you know what you are talking about?   I guess NOT!!   

Richard wrote Jim and asked him to  "Please remove me from your site and your lists."    WHERE , HOW,  do you come up with the crazy idea that Richard asked to be placed on the Refused List?    Remove me from your list's means all lists.  He wanted NO association with this site at all.  He did NOT ask to be placed on the Refused List, he asked to be Removed from ALL list's.

And with your cleaned-up version of Jim's List today at the very bottom of his new version you see this.

 
"These are the Agencies/Sites That Refused to be on my Sites:

International Introductions (Latin Wife)

Tver Angels"



WHY is this here?   Why should these two list's be singled out as two agencies who refused to be listed on his site? 

They asked to be REMOVED completely from his site and all list's.  Did Jim do as his previous Gold and White Listed agency asked?  NO, he did what he wanted. 

Yesterday if they did not respond to Jim they would go to his Grey List.  Jim saw the uproar that he had created and over night that was changed.  Now Jim has labled these two agencies as two agencies who refused to be listed.   WHY.


Here is what Jim had posted on his site Yesterday.






Who is on the Refused List?

Here is the deal with these sites. There are 2 kinds. Some said that they do not want to be on my White or Gold List.


Some are not concerned about scammers. They allow scammers to run free on their sites. This builds up their database. So, guys spend money and then contact scammers. They lose money there, then maybe they lose money to the scammer. Is it not unethical to make money from allowing scammers on your site? I think so.

If you don't agree, fine. Go ahead and use these sites.

* If you are from one of these sites and DO care about scammers. Contact me for removal. You have 2 strikes against you. After our discussion of
the problem, I will either move you to the White List or Grey List. It's ALL up to you.


Adult Love Line

Cheeky Flirt

Cute and Single

Dating Central

Dating Spaces

Dream Dates

Dream Mates

Eve Kiss

Find Someone

Friend Search

Global Email Club

International Introductions (Latin Wife)

JumpDates

loveandfriends.com

Lonely Fire

Love.org

Love Access

Love Town

Match America

Meet Russian Brides

Mingles

RSVP

Single Parent Meet

Singles Seek

Sk Singles

Swiss Friends (swissfriends.ch)

Tver Angels

UDate

Web Date







And here is what Jim has posted today.







Who is on the Refused List?

Here is the deal with these sites. There are 2 kinds. Some said that they do not want to be on my White or Gold List. (Bottom)

Some are not concerned about scammers. (Top) They allow scammers to run free on their sites. This builds up their database. So, guys spend money and then contact scammers. They lose money there, then maybe they lose money to the scammer. Is it not unethical to make money from allowing scammers on your site? I think so.

If you don't agree, fine. Go ahead and use these sites.

* If you are from one of these sites and DO care about scammers. Contact me for removal. You have 2 strikes against you. After our discussion of the problem, I will either move you to the White List or Grey List. It's ALL up to you.

These are the Unconcerned Agencies/Sites

Adult Love Line

Cheeky Flirt

Cute and Single

Dating Central

Dating Spaces

Dream Dates

Dream Mates

Eve Kiss

Find Someone

Friend Search

Global Email Club

JumpDates

loveandfriends.com

Lonely Fire

Love.org

Love Access

Love Town

Match America

Meet Russian Brides

Mingles

RSVP

Single Parent Meet

Singles Seek

Sk Singles

Swiss Friends (swissfriends.ch)

UDate

Web Date

These are the Agencies/Sites That Refused to be on my Sites

International Introductions (Latin Wife)

Tver Angels

[Jack]

Marty I was reading your previous post and for once I totally agree with you.


"Dan, Maybe you should take a long hard look at where these wars always seem to originate?"


Yes Marty I totally agree. And let's take a loooooooong look at where these wars seem to originate.

My very first day, first post on the old RWG. I did not know who anyone was when I made my first post.  And right under my very first post was this post from a poster named camerguy.  Cameraguy posted "If Jack Bragg is allowed to post on this site, then I am leaving". 

Whoaaaa, I thought "Who is this guy."   What a welcome. My first post and this guy says if I am allowed to post on this site, he is leaving!

So I just sat back and was watching for the fall-out. Was I going to be told by the members not to post anymore?  Were the members going to write this guy and tell him not to leave?

Nothing happened. Not ONE person said "Camerguy, do not leave" Not one person asked you to stay.

I had no idea who this cameraguy was. I had never met him, never talked to him, had never wrote him, I had never provided any services to him or offered him my services.  What had I done to this guy for him to tell this Russian discussion board "If Jack Bragg is allowed to post here I am leaving"

So no one asked camerguy to stay and true to his word, camerguy left. And not one word was mentioned to or about cameraguy. No one even noticed he was gone. All was peaceful.  Then two weeks later, un-true to his threat, cameraguy came back and started his attack on me.  As anyone who knows me camerguy, if I am attacked, I will attack back. You have attacked me for years, I have attacked you back after each of your attacks.

[Turboguy]

HAHAHAHA...

I wasn't going to post here but I just read the links to Jim's site and I just have to!!!

The guy is a lunatic and has no concept of creating a good brand in business.

I found his site before I found RWD and spent a lot of time reading it.  At first (because I was blind to the whole business) I actually appreciated some of the content. As I kept reading I was wary of his information because it was written with too much emotion and not enough fact.  He tries to include fact but most of everything he writes is full of holes.

Eventually I decided the information on his site was worthless.

Later I found RWD and I was concerned with some of the personal posts I saw before joining.  In a very short period of time I discovered the value in debate and still appreciate the opinions of the men with experience.  The diversity of experience is what makes RWD valuable. There's no diversity in Jim's content.  It's the ravings on one small individual!
If you care to read the links to Jim's site (included above) you'll read the ramblings of a twisted individual.  I could respond to some of his accusations and I'm standing on the sideline... his ranting is really quite something!    

Ya know... I've been watching this thread and been getting itchy to get into the fight because I felt like RWD was being attacked and I think that's unfair.

After reading Jim's posts I realise he is the one condemning his own site.  When people read his words they will feel the emotion and venom and he is actually doing RWD a great favour by advertising Dan's URLs. Nice work Jim...  you're a nice guy afterall!

I say let's just wind him up and keep him going...  he could be the best audience development tool RWD could have!

This is really too funny for words...  Good luck Jim, I think you need it!

Kuna

What happened to the concept of attacking someone's ideas and not their person.

I am glad to see Jim here and discussing his side of things.  I think far more can be accomplished with conversations not standing far apart throwing rocks at each other.

I think a lot of the problem is the bad blood between Jack and Jim.  I know Jack very well and respect him a lot.  I have never met or talked to Jim.  I have a feeling part of the problem is that they may be a lot alike.   Both seem to have strong opinions and being strong willed.  There is nothing wrong with that but when the two butt heads no one is ever going to back down.

My two cents worth.

I had been on Jim's site before but bounced around a bit yesterday but did not read the RWD part.   It seemed to me that for the most part Jim's intentions are good.  Most of the agencies that to me are rip offs are in his bad lists and the ones that I think are good seem to be in his better lists.   The list where Richard finds himself says nothing bad about him or his agency.  Being opinionated is not a crime.  I am sure it is hard to get feedback from people and to me Jim is trying to do good things and hoping to make a few bucks in the process. 

Although I did not read it yesterday I do think Jim is looking at RWD in the wrong way.  It is never easy to see yourself criticized, particularly if you are conscientious in your efforts and trying to do good things for the industry.   Still the voices that are heard here are not Dan's (mostly).  They are all the independent thoughts of guys who seek or are married to RW.   Like it or lump it they are saying what they think.  In reality some are very wise and a few are not.  To me RWD is one of the most helpful places for anyone involved with RW.  The management never took an anti Jim stance the views were from average Joes.   Like it or lump it that is part of life and something you should just let run off your back like water on the back of a duck.  The best thing about things like this is when people learn to not worry so much about being angry or offended they can learn a lot about how to improve their business.  My business is much better because I listened to the negative comments from my competitors and learned from it.

Jim, I think you and Dan and all of us want the same thing.  A good industry where people don't get ripped off, where the dishonest women and dishonest agencies are exposed and the good ones are helped.   Jim, RWD is something very good.  You should be promoting it not complaining about it.  Industry certification is a good things too.  It will help make a better industry which is your goal.   You should be exploring ways to work together, to help each other.   Your business will be stronger as a result and it will be a better industry.

Jim, you and Jack are never going to be golfing buddies but he is a good guy as you are.  You guys really need to bury the hatchet.

[Admin]

Ray,

Jim is not here. It is doubtful he will ever come here.

It seems he has now decided to escalate things. He is now including my principal business and casting aspersions there. You can see it here, at his site -- http://www.jimslists.com/agencies/planetlove.html

- Dan

[jinx13]

 From Jim yesterday

 

Dave, I think that jack is not receiving my letters. If someone could
let him know that I will remove ALL mention of him if he removes jls (jimslistsucks),
that would be great.

 I forwarded the letter to ****, **** also PM'd me and seemed willing to end this, and made some demands which I forwarded to Jim, and this is what happens...

 Quote from news section of Jimslistsucks.com

 

News: Jim has removed FirstDream from his *snip*-Kick List, and replaced the Home Page banner to remove "Jack Bragg Sucks." WHAT?!? Does Jim lack the courage of his convictions? Was First Dream and Jack Bragg so BAD that he placed them on his *snip*-Kick List and now they are removed. Why Jim?!? How much did you receive for THAT?!? Read More...

 So who is trying to end this, and who is doing his best to keep it going?  ???

 I also wrote to Jim yesterday and let him know that involving Tver Angels in this battle was a bad idea, he removed Richard (Rverwnd) from threats of a black or grey list.

 I see the guy making an effort, what kind of effort is being made on this side?


 

[William3rd]

"Peace is at hand" Chamberlain, wasnt it?

Apparently, the JLS site is doing a lot of damage. . . .

Is the Missouri available for the signing?

[Bruno]

I also wrote to Jim yesterday and let him know that involving Tver Angels in this battle was a bad idea, he removed Richard (Rverwnd) from threats of a black or grey list.

Richard was not on the grey or black list but on the "refusal list"... after your message, he have no remove Richard like wished but simply make two list on the same page... Jack explain it good in the previous post...

What to think about somebody who change what he wrote at the first alarm... somebody who have not the courage of his own opinion... and it is not the first time... Jimlist have a "very high" change page rate...

[Turboguy]

Dan,

Sorry, some of the wording in CG's made me think Jim was posting  such as:

"Here is the deal with these sites. There are 2 kinds. Some said that they do not want to be on my White or Gold List. (Bottom)"

Maybe I need to spend more time using my eyes and less time using my fingers. 

I will check out the comments there about RWD and the rest.

[Admin]

From Jim yesterday

 
 I forwarded the letter to ****, **** also PM'd me and seemed willing to end this, and made some demands which I forwarded to Jim, and this is what happens...

 Quote from news section of Jimslistsucks.com

 

 So who is trying to end this, and who is doing his best to keep it going?  ???

 I also wrote to Jim yesterday and let him know that involving Tver Angels in this battle was a bad idea, he removed Richard (Rverwnd) from threats of a black or grey list.

 I see the guy making an effort, what kind of effort is being made on this side?

David,

Curiously, you have decided to interject yourself into the middle of something - and yet, you don't offer full disclosure.

I told you yesterday my position is simple. Jim initiated this by fabricating lies and distortions - and then using those as a bargaining chip to try to censor people from RWD. Since Jim initiated hostilities, it is up to Jim to de-escalate matters. Instead, he has chosen to escalate them.

So be it.

- Dan