Overcoming the language barrier

[Turboguy]

Wayne,

I think your attack was unwarranted.

I know you are a firm believer in good communications.  Many agree with you some don't.  It does seem to me that you launched the first attack so Wayne's counter attack doesn't strike me as unwarrented.   

[Bruce]

Kuna's post was spot on.  JB tells it like it is.  BC has the subtle also correct post.  The rest is mostly noise and well deserved agreement with the above three.  

My wife was a first class translator when I met her.  Communication never was a problem.  Cultural differences, different expectations and vastly different upbringings (see cultural differences one more time) are the root of our disagreements.  If you can not even communicate clearly, how do you expect to overcome cultural differences, which as far as I am concerned is just as important, if not more so than language?

Bottom line, you better communicate very well prior to undertaking marriage.  If the girl speaks fluent English, fine.  Now you have a starting point.  If she speaks no English it is a more difficult longer process.  In between English, an in between process.  Now that you can communicate see if you can really tolerate each other.............not just dream for a younger, prettier intelligent girl on your part and the dream of a more stable society, fairer society with more opportunities and a wealthy husband in America on her part..............no, thats just a dream.  In order to build a healthy marriage you first must start with language and work like H&ll on understanding each others culture, where both of you come from and where you are going.  

[jb]

T/G,

For someone who has made soooooo many mistakes you are hardly the one to take me to task.

Wayne,

I wish you the best of luck.  However I have, over the years seen soooooo many K-1's go tits up due to the inability to communicate.  There is a very good book out there called "Wedded Strangers", which details many of the problems you are about to encounter, perhaps you should buy a copy and read it.  If you cannot adequately communicate with your woman, it is entirely possible you will wake up one fine monrning, 6 or 8 months down the road, married to somebody you don't even like,,, much less love.

But how could you possibly know that now?  You can't even talk to her... Your problem,,, not mine.

[Wayne B]

jb, I apologize to you! And I mean this!   I know that I am entering new territory.....Anna and I can communicate on a limited basis. but, I will not let this become an end to our relationship because of unspoken words. I believe that people can share life together, forever without knowing one's language from day one! Again jb, I am sorry for going off on you! 

[Turboguy]

T/G,

For someone who has made soooooo many mistakes you are hardly the one to take me to task.

I was not taking you to task jb, I was just pointing out that he was just responding to your post.   I have never read the book you mention but I have heard good things about it.  I think for someone planning a marriage that could have communication difficulties that would be good reading.  Of course it could be good for anyone. 

[Wayne B]

Turbo, I guess that it may be a sin to make mistakes? I am very sure that if I live long enough....that I will make more mistakes.....but, if one can learn from their mistakes....can that not be a good thing?

[MaxxumUSA]

I see the Rah-Rah cheerleader squad has a new member.  Once again,,, advice from someone who hasn't been there yet.

Dave has somehow figured out how to tell his girlfriend when he wants sex,,, what's he gonna do when he has to talk politics or religion?  Or even,,, what color do you want to paint the bathroom walls?   I don't think you can do that with body language and hand signs.   You guys really need to get comfortable with the notion that you will need a common language before you get married.

Come on JB...  My girlfriend knows when I want sex...  Often!    One of the reasons she likes me. 

As for the communication I only mention the physical connection because it is part of the deal.  Maybe we both feel more patience and understanding and this is ONE of the reasons.  Being 5,000 miles away from each other it is VERY difficult to base a relationship on sex.

Me and my GF talk about 1 or more hours every day.  I am learning russian slowly and she is expanding her english quickly.  She already understood english fairly well when we met but like I said...  she needed to get used to my dialect and slang.  I also needed to learn to simplify my words and talk with simplified shorter sentences so she understands.

We talk about very serious matters and communicate well although it takes a bit longer time to do so.

As for the bathroom walls...  she can paint them yellow with purple polka dots for all I care.

She better stay away from the Harley with that paint!  Hehe

I have been to russia already for the record.  Going back Mar 29 (already have tickets) and staying three weeks with her.  Hopefully next trip after that she will be returning with me.

[Captmonk1]

    I only searched girls who could speak good to great English. That solved almost all problems I may or may not have had.

[Wayne B]

Maxxum, maybe some here can only rely on the spoken word? Maybe they have a tool that doesn't work anymore or never worked at all? They seem to talk about the past....instead of the future....and some seem to be scared to change?

[Turboguy]

I think in reality there is a natural draw towards gals who speak English.

When I was in the searching stage I paid no attention to language abilities.   The gal I ended up with speaks outstanding English.   I think sometimes you just automatically find yourself drawn to the one you can communicate with. 

To me the gal I ended up with is the most wonderful woman I have ever met but the thing that I makes her the most special to me is her intelligence and our communication.   I could have never had that with someone who did not know the language, at least not for a long time. 

The runner up's at the time I met her all had very little English.  I was not concerned about that at all but they did end up a distant second.

I still believe that if two people are serious about building a relationship, language is a challenge, perhaps a big one, but not something that can not be overcome.   It is a big challenge and both must be up for it.

[MaxxumUSA]

Maxxum, maybe some here can only rely on the spoken word? Maybe they have a tool that doesn't work anymore or never worked at all? They seem to talk about the past....instead of the future....and some seem to be scared to change?

Speaking of fear, this is one reason I come to these boards.  I come to learn.  You see...  before my first trip I was so afraid I was literally and honestly puking for three days before I got on that airplane.  I had no idea there was a place I could discuss things with other men in the same situation as me.  I really did my first trip alone.  No advice or even trip report readings under my belt.  I left my mother the contact information I had deep in Russia and got my ass on that plane all by myself.

I don't mind being called to task or explanation on certain issues...  However I hope that we are all here more than anything to support each other and offer real advice based on our experiences.

So...  when I do say anything on these boards it will probably be from my experience and I will hopefully help someone else NOT PUKE out of fear before their first trip!

My personal experience says the language barrier is not bad if both people REALLY want to communicate.  Same thing goes for american women I have dated that speak perfect english.  If they don't want to communicate, they will not.  I think its more a connection thing than just the language barrier.  If a woman wants to tell you something or learn about you she will do everything in her power to do so.  If not, then you are probably chasing the wrong woman because she does not feel the same as you (IMO).   Again...  this is based on my personal experience with women in general, not just RW.

[Makkin]

Hello,

 WayneB,

  I think we live very close to each other as I'm in the League City area,NASA,and the area near I-10 and 146..lol I saw you mention that you were 20 miles south of I-10...I'm probably 35 miles south of I-10..lol

Makkin

[catzenmouse]

Is a lack of good communication in the beginning of a relationship a deal breaker? Not necessarily.

Does it make it a lot harder. YES!

Does it make it a much bigger gamble. YES!

Can it work? Yes.

Can it fail? Yes.

Can you know either way? No.

Would you have a better take on the last question if you had better communication? Yes.

Many here have seen this scenario play out hundreds of times over the years. Vegas Odds would have us all betting on a relationship like this being a failure. We would be doing very well financially.

Sure you can make it work. BUT - Both of you have to want it! Both of you have to work your asses off to make it happen! Both of you have to fight like hell to stay focused in this goal, never losing your humor or more importantly your patience.

Right now you have no idea what is in store for you. Your reading here, asking questions which are all good. Still nothing that you read will prepare you fully for what is coming when she arrives and for at least the next 6 month, year, maybe longer.

The odds are against you. People do beat the odds. Occasionally.

Ken

[Turboguy]

Speaking of fear, this is one reason I come to these boards.  I come to learn.  You see...  before my first trip I was so afraid I was literally and honestly puking for three days before I got on that airplane. 

You should have tried it back when I made my first trip.  No one was going in those days, there was no information on the internet, the hotels were not in the travel agent system much, no visa agencies.   Three weeks before my first trip my travel agent through up her hands and said she could not find me a room in Moscow but would keep trying.  (Only the cosmos was in the system and they only worked by fax which they wouldn't answer.)  I had no visa and no one would help me.   I finally found one agency and got my visa just in time and got on the plane with no hotel reservation.  It was confirmed for me while I was at JFK waiting for my Moscow flight.  I didn't find myself puking but I was sure glad when most of my trip worked out with only medium nightmares.   Sometime I should post a TR on that one.  It was funny.

Nice post Ken, right on.

[Patrick]

Turbo, I guess that it may be a sin to make mistakes? I am very sure that if I live long enough....that I will make more mistakes.....but, if one can learn from their mistakes....can that not be a good thing?

  Hello Wayne B. I am Patrick. I am one of the Married Men here on the board that has made several trips to Ukraine and Russia. I was very lucky to meet my now wife on one of the trips I took to Ukraine. When we met , she could say hello,thank you and good bye. That along with my name and that is about it. I went back to see her 2 months later and her English had improved to a much higher level.
  The first thing that I understood is that I was in her country on her turf if you will. I had to keep my ears open and my mouth shut. I did understand what she was saying . I found out later after the 4th trip that as long as I did that I was fine.
   Now the good part. When she came to the US. I seemed to forget the lesson our pals jb and Ken C had told me about the ears open and the mouth shut. The more I opened my mouth the less I heard with my ears. It seemed that here were on my turf and I was fighting a loosing battle with understanding what the ears were hearing.
  The married guys have been there and done that. We are not going to tell you something that we feel you may need to know just to read what we have said.
  The one thing that I have learned in my many years on the earth is to listen, think, act and then speak. Our wives and ladies tell us all kinds of good things we just have to listen to what they are saying. The married men and women here will also tell you all kinds of good things, you just have to listen, think ,act and then you speak.
  One or two more things and I will leave you alone.Ken C. jb, Ken, Dan. Richard, Legal,BC, Cpt B, Clyde and many others have a lot of good things to say. Now you can listen to all that post, thats fine, most have some good advice a couple are just here to be attention getters, Oh, they can type and spell pretty well so I guess that makes them think that what they say worth hearing, me , I think that they are just a bit above the freshman level and want to run with the grads.
  I do wish you good luck with you trip and your special lady. I hope all goes well with the Visa interview and you both arrive safe and have a good life. If I can help in any way, or if any of us can help, all you have to do is ask. We will listen, think, act and then speak.

[DKMM]

Here is another thing to consider.  Try speaking english like a russian.  I don't mean so much the accent like the characters on james bond movies, but make your 'u's sound with round lips and say your 'i's like a long E.. that kind of thing helps.

Also try to mimick their typical if incorrect word order and drop out your "the"s and "a"s.  And use the English words they use often like "its a pity" or "its awful" etc.  Seriously it helped me a lot.  It also helps if you have a medium OK with English RW that speaks it that way so you can pick it up with her.  For instance, instead of "do you like doing this?"  you say "like, don't like?"   

This worked for me in mexico speaking spanglish so I guess this is Rus-glish?

[Mir]

Here is another thing to consider.  Try speaking english like a russian

Yes do it for a few days and none of your friends and family would understand you anymore

[jinx13]

Here is another thing to consider.  Try speaking english like a russian.  I don't mean so much the accent like the characters on james bond movies, but make your 'u's sound with round lips and say your 'i's like a long E.. that kind of thing helps.

Also try to mimick their typical if incorrect word order and drop out your "the"s and "a"s.  And use the English words they use often like "its a pity" or "its awful" etc.  Seriously it helped me a lot.  It also helps if you have a medium OK with English RW that speaks it that way so you can pick it up with her.  For instance, instead of "do you like doing this?"  you say "like, don't like?"   

This worked for me in mexico speaking spanglish so I guess this is Rus-glish?

 DKMM,

 I find myself doing that all the time, but not on purpose, I think I'm getting a Russian accent!    When you live with someone awhile, or even if your just dating, you take on some of their characteristics, and even some of their speaking manner...

 Nataly always says "Thanks God"  (instead of thank, nonplural) and now I do it all the time too!    I know exactly what you mean though, as far as the words you choose, really using proper english, enunciating more, and speaking slowly, but not so slow as to make her, and you look foolish.



 

[Jazzyclassy]

             ? Samuel Jones

JC

Welsh are not real English               

yeah sure Mir

get this ahhahaha

 Ukrainians  are not Russians

[Kuna]

I think the other thing about the "language barrier" is your ladies ability to settle in at home.

Sure might be happy with hand signals and body movements but how will she go when she can't communicate with your friends and family?

Yes, she can take ESL classes but without even simple English how does she get to and from college?  Does she go shopping and just follow you?  How about when she wants to buy clothes?  Isn't the "shopping" a part of the experience?

I can't imagine how difficult it would be if a FSWU didn't have at least basic English when she arrives.  Of course she may not be fluent but she should at least have enough language ability to be independent to an extent... otherwise I'm sure her self esteem and your patience will end up suffering...

Kuna

[jb]

Maxxum, maybe some here can only rely on the spoken word? Maybe they have a tool that doesn't work anymore or never worked at all? Wink They seem to talk about the past....instead of the future....and some seem to be scared to change?

Wayne,

It is absolutely vital that there be reliance on the spoken word, even more so for the written words.  Do you honestly think you can bring an immigrant woman into your home and not have these things?

Let me outline what's going to happen if she doesn't have English when she gets here: 
1) She can't learn to drive a car, because you can't adequately explain the laws pertaining to the rules of the road.  That's part of the spoken words you and she don't share in common.  Even if your Russian is good enough to teach her to drive, she can't get a drivers license because the written test in Texas is available only in English and Spanish, not Russian or Ukrainian.  (I also live in Texas)
2) She is going to be frustrated over the money, she's used to dealing in either Hryvnia or Rubles, without a detailed explaination how will she make that transition?  You can give her a $100.00 bill for shopping and she will wonder why you gave her such small money,  a hundred Hryvnia is about $20, and a hundred Rubles is about $4.00.  She will have no idea how far $100.00 will go at the grocery store, or how quickly it will evaporate if she wanders into the ethnic food store with a hankering for caviar, something she is used to buying for cheap at home.
3) Speaking a foreign language all the time is hard work, it is mentally draining.  She needs to hear Russian more often than you are thinking, without it she will become frustrated and iritated at the smallest things.  Guess who will bear the brunt of her frustration?  If you guessed the mail man, you are dead wrong.  You are the animal who dragged her away from her comfort zone and placed her in the living hell she is now going through.  That's a big reason why all women coming over are very negative about the USA for the 1st year they are here.   The better her English is, the easier her adjustment will be.
4) She will not be able to work for awhile.   Until she gets the EAD from the USCIS she's basically housebound.  A prisoner, and you are the jailer.  While you are out earning a living she is sitting at home in front of a TV she can't understand, even if you subscribe to the Russian channels, you will probably only get 2 or 3, and because of the time differences, there will be nothing interesting on while she's watching.  You finally arrive home and she's looking for some break in the boredom while you are looking to unwind with a cold beer, this is not a good situation to find yourself in.  Without English she can't even make friends with the neighbors.

I could go on and on about why you need more than body movements and sign language but I think you will get the message here.  The language barrier is not just about how well you can get an idea accross when you want some nooky, it's about how well can you live together in our society.  Most K-1s don't fail because the couple didn't love each other, they fail because the poor woman is so miserable in her new home she can't stand it there any longer and she has to go home.

There's just a little touch of reality for you, and you can't say you've already discussed all this with the FSUW.  Even if you had the Russian words in your vocabulary, she wouldn't understand the context anyway since she has no yardstick with which to measure, no frame of referrence for full understanding.

Yes, indeed,,, the language barrier can be a deal breaker for a lot of couples.

[Mir]

Maxxum, maybe some here can only rely on the spoken word? Maybe they have a tool that doesn't work anymore or never worked at all? Wink They seem to talk about the past....instead of the future....and some seem to be scared to change?

Wyane/Max
Do you gays honestly think that just because you are such great lovers/studs the women will be happy with you?
I certainly believe most men stop thinking like that after the age of 20 or 21.
Sex is great basis for a good relationship as long as she stays in FSU and you visit once every 2-3 months for 2-3 weeks.
When she is in US a whole new set of problems will appear.The will need communication to get over and your tool will not be able to contribute much, JMHO.

[Mir]

Sorry read guys and not gays thanks

[jb]

Oh,,, and just for the record,,, my tool works just fine.

[Kuna]

We're not going to start comparing tack hammers with sledge hammers are we???