Overcoming the language barrier

[Voyageur]

Wayne,

My wife speaks excellent English also. Maybe in the past I have sided with the more optimistic members of this forum, but please believe me when I urge you to consider the opinions of the more experienced members of this forum, and their advise on the language barrier.

Every situation and relationship is different, I'll grant you this. But we see time and time again the same types of experiences and trials and tribulations discussed here so there must be some common thread and dynamic to most couples in the FSUW - WM relationships. And I can relate to most of what has been posted in this thread.

There are plenty of successful, motivated and headstrong people around here, and I would try to learn as much from their advise as I could. Of course at the end of the day you make your own decisions but you should certainly listen to what has been said by those of us whom have already been through this.  Good luck to you. 

[jb]

Kuna,

I really don't expect a lot of these guys to "get" it until they've actually been through it.  We old married guys continually harp on the need for lots of patience, understanding, good attitudes, as well as the need for lots of money.   Trusting to dumb luck, intution, and a good working tool just isn't gonna get the job done.

Besides, the biggest and most powerful sex organ we have is the brain, when I see dumb things posted like that I have to wonder about the size of the brain.

[I/O]

I/O and his wonderful partner   to my mind they are an amazing couple and if they had this language barrier , now it is non existant

Jazz  No...!!!  It is NOT nonexistant.  It is much LESS of a problem than it was 18 months ago, but it is still and always will be there to an extent.  Both of us are "Bull headed" types who refuse to quit on a discussion until we completely understand each other.  That, at times can take hours to mutually understand a small issue.  It's bloody hard work...!!!

To reach the stage we have and make THAT decision has taken every inch of her stubborn Russianess and every inch of my "Bull headed" German/Aussieness.  I would NEVER NEVER advise anyone to follow the route we have.  It is incredibly difficult to even get to the stage we have and we are a very long way short of the time we can claim to have succeeded.  Maybe 10 years from now I might lodge that claim, maybe.

I/O

[Kuna]

jb,

As you know I'm not married and not experienced.  You also know I've made my own mistakes.  What I find difficult to believe is anyone understating the importance of communication in a relationship.

I can forgive anyone for getting tied up in the excitement of the moment but hopefully everyone considering marriage is putting deep and sincere thought into it.

Maybe everyone should think about what it would be like if they immigrated to a new country where they knew only 1 person, spoke none of the local language, didn't have a job, couldn't get around and couldn't even watch the news...  I think in a short while they'll be spending a lot of time on the phone and the loneliness would build pretty quickly.

Each to their own though... maybe some people are born natural gamblers! (though one would hope someone wouldn't gamble with another persons feelings!)

Kuna

[Jazzyclassy]

     Jazz  No...!!!  It is NOT nonexistant.  It is much LESS of a problem than it was 18 months ago, but it is still and always will be there to an extent.  Both of us are "Bull headed" types who refuse to quit on a discussion until we completely understand each other.  That, at times can take hours to mutually understand a small issue.  It's bloody hard work...!!!

To reach the stage we have and make THAT decision has taken every inch of her stubborn Russianess and every inch of my "Bull headed" German/Aussieness.  I would NEVER NEVER advise anyone to follow the route we have.  It is incredibly difficult to even get to the stage we have and we are a very long way short of the time we can claim to have succeeded.  Maybe 10 years from now I might lodge that claim, maybe.

I/O      

But that is what I admire you both for!!! and the route you took was not cos you especially have chosen it , cos life turned this way

That takes a great strong feeling towards each other in order to help in succeeding this  language matter, and very soon you will communicate so fluently

I just want to point out that yes of course it is important to know some english
but if there is no love there is no patience to understand this person and there is no struggling desire to do anything in order to achieve it

so  Love and true friendship can help in the situation when people do not know common language

I am wishing all the best to Dan C and  Wayne B and Dave

and of course I/O to be patient and  never lose faith  in achieving   results and just God will help you I am sure:)

 I admire the people who are striving

[MaxxumUSA]

slightly 

Wyane/Max
Do you gays honestly think that just because you are such great lovers/studs the women will be happy with you?

Yes.

Sex, I must say,  is the only thing we have to offer each other.  As a matter of fact we spend every day having phone sex and webcam cybersex for hours.  Our stamina is second to none.  Good thing there are no other important issues.  After all, what else is there to talk about?  We just moan and groan till we are satisfied a couple of times then stumble through our broken communication to say goodbye.  We have even learned to sms sex back and forth.  We don't even read the messages, we just put our cell phones on vibrate and please each other throughout the day.

Blahahaha

Mir, Do you realize you're picking on men because we agree that sex is part of communication?  What team are you on here, dude?

For the women reading this...  Don't listen to some of these guys.  SEX HELPS!  It helps everything.  LOL

For the men reading this....  SSSHHHHHH!!!!!  What are you doing guys?  We're supposed to be on the same team!  Come on...  Any way we can help women understand that sex is a good thing should NEVER be shot down.  Get on the team or join the other team!

[jb]

Kuna,

Maybe everyone should think about what it would be like if they immigrated to a new country where they knew only 1 person, spoke none of the local language, didn't have a job, couldn't get around and couldn't even watch the news...  I think in a short while they'll be spending a lot of time on the phone and the loneliness would build pretty quickly.

This comment really strikes to the heart of the language barrier problem for those women and girls with poor English skills.  It is also almost verbatum something I posted some months ago.  You recently started a thread regarding guides for non-Russian speaking FSU visitors in which you caught quite a lot of flack for your views about how well you were served.  For the men bringing a non-English speaking FSUW to their country, perhaps they would consider hiring a Russian/English speaking guide for their K-1 honey.  Otherwise she is pretty much as helpless as a newborn pup.

One of the symptoms we frequently read about in failed K-1s is guys not understanding why their woman sleeps so much, we often hear of Russian/Ukrainian girls who sleep most of the day and are tired all the time.  This is an indication of depression and a seriously unhappy woman.  If a guy brings a girl over and within weeks of arrrival she begins to sleep more hours than she wakes, then the guy should read the handwriting on the wall, he's got an problem on his hands that he may not be able to solve.  We've seen it before.  Usually this can be traced to the fact that there is no communication between the partners except on the most basic levels.  The girl is simply bored out of her mind and needs mental stimulation which her stud muffin husband cannot provide.

So,,, all you guys who think a language barrier is not real, good luck to you.  You are going to need it.

[Mir]

Max

Advice here is meant for you and not for the women.
I felt the post by Wyan picking on those trying to give sound advice was rather harsh and so I responded.
I don't think there are any teams here and that there is a compition going on which one team needs to win.
Yes sex is important but is a poor basis for a long term relationship.
JMHO

[MaxxumUSA]

Max

I don't think there are any teams here and that there is a compition going on which one team needs to win.
Yes sex is important but is a poor basis for a long term relationship.
JMHO

The team I am referring to is "straight men of the world" vs "other men of the world"

Not sure if you have heard this slang before in UK thus this explanation.  Certainly I am NOT referring to anything competitive to do with these boards.

I totally agree sex is NOT a good basis for any meaningful relationship.

[Turboguy]

I have always been a little more flexable on the idea of language differences than some of you.  I have always believed if two people really, really want to make things work they will find a way.

jb and I have quite a history of being on the opposite side of  discussions.   I have to say the points he brought up were very valid.  I have to find something to disagree with or I would start to question my sanity.   The only thing I might question is that I think there are enough greenbacks floating around that most know the value of a $ 100.00 bill knowing what it will buy here is another matter.  The principle of what he said is correct.  I will add that I have had some wonderful visits with people who did not speak a word of English.  But the reality of it was that I was on a trip that lasted a week or two and would be home.  I am not so sure it would have been half as fun if it was day after day after day.

As most of you know my engagement to VWRW is my second K-1.  With my first, Luda, her English was very limited.   That relationship lasted about a year.  When we started she could sms me in basic English with the help of a dictionary.   When she arrived we could do basic sentences but her written English was better than her spoken English.  When we had complicated things to discuss we would sit and write notes to each other.  We communicated fairly well that way.   At the time she chose to go back the verbal communication was not too bad.  The point I am trying to make was that there was a big, big improvement from beginning to end.  Actually at the end she was helping out in our office and had no trouble communicating with the gals at work.  

Personally I really enjoyed the struggles we had with language.  I never found it to do anything but add to the situation.  I enjoyed helping her learn English.  I was in a situation where I could take the time to take her places such as the ESL classes.  I really feel the language difficulties played no part in us not working out nor did the age difference.

The fact was her English was very limited.  It was not non existant.   Had she arrived knowing how to say thank you and hello It very likely would have made the situation impossible.  

I still feel that language is not a barrier it is a challenge.  The man must be very patient and very supportive.  The woman must be the same plus willing and ambitious enough to throw herself into learning English on a crash basis.  That way by the time you get here she will have basic skills.   If she is in ESL classes and still working her tail off in an immersion situation in a few months the communication should be reasonable.  

If you meet a gal with limited or no English and decide you are right for each other and she is not working her tail off over there to learn English while she is waiting for the visa then forget it.  She is not motivated enough to make it.  It has zero chance.  If you are the type who gets irritated easily and have little tolerance, forget it.  It is not going to work.   Even if she is highly motivated and you are very patient you are raising the risk of failure much more.  Even VWRW who has excellent skills tells me sometimes that she finds it mentally tiresome to speak and write in English 24 hours a day.

[funkola]

So,,, all you guys who think a language barrier is not real, good luck to you.  You are going to need it.

Who said the language barrier is not real? Such a negative defeatist attitude. Always the drama queen.  I get the impression you are an elderly man set in his ways and not willing to see that your way isn't THE way. It is just your's.

You said something earlier about how to explain to a woman you wanted her to pick the color of wall paint. (or something close to that) You indicated it couldn't be done. Here is a tip for you. Take her into the bathroom and point to the wall. Then hand her some color chips from the paint store. Point to the wall again if it makes you feel safer. You could even hold a paintbrush in your hand. If she doesn't understand what you mean then she is stupid. A monkey could figure that out.


Generic "you" being used. Not referring to anyone in particular.

[funkola]

Personally I really enjoyed the struggles we had with language.  I never found it to do anything but add to the situation.  I enjoyed helping her learn English. 


I still feel that language is not a barrier it is a challenge.  The man must be very patient and very supportive. 

You are dead on TG! That is the right attitude for anything in life. Turn problems into opportunities whenever possible. 

[Wayne B]

jb, I am listening to you!  I understand that two people that share the same language, can have problems in communication...and when two people do not share the same language this can compound communication even more! I have some ideas what Anna will be feeling after the new wears away!  I have said before, that I spent 2 weeks in Kharkov living with Anna and her mom....Yes I now the feeling of being left out of conversations and it is not fun! That is why I am here....to learn, and I am reading what everyone is writing!  

[Kuna]

Jb, A couple of thoughts come to mind from your post...

For the men bringing a non-English speaking FSUW to their country, perhaps they would consider hiring a Russian/English speaking guide for their K-1 honey.  Otherwise she is pretty much as helpless as a newborn pup.

EXCELLENT idea... I even read in another post earlier today someone suggested a guide could help a fiance with the Visa Interview.  Of course some think communication isn't so important so they'd never give their wife a voice anyway!

The girl is simply bored out of her mind and needs mental stimulation which her stud muffin husband cannot provide.

How could they know if she was bored out of her mind???  They can't talk to her!


Turbo, I don't like disagreeing with you because you're much more experienced than me but... SHEEESH dude!

I have always been a little more flexable on the idea of language differences than some of you.  I have always believed if two people really, really want to make things work they will find a way.

jb and I have quite a history of being on the opposite side of  discussions.   I have to say the points he brought up were very valid.  I have to find something to disagree with or I would start to question my sanity.   The only thing I might question is that I think there are enough greenbacks floating around that most know the value of a $ 100.00 bill knowing what it will buy here is another matter.  The principle of what he said is correct.  I will add that I have had some wonderful visits with people who did not speak a word of English.  But the reality of it was that I was on a trip that lasted a week or two and would be home.  I am not so sure it would have been half as fun if it was day after day after day.

As most of you know my engagement to VWRW is my second K-1.  With my first, Luda, her English was very limited.   That relationship lasted about a year.  When we started she could sms me in basic English with the help of a dictionary.   When she arrived we could do basic sentences but her written English was better than her spoken English.  When we had complicated things to discuss we would sit and write notes to each other.  We communicated fairly well that way.   At the time she chose to go back the verbal communication was not too bad.  The point I am trying to make was that there was a big, big improvement from beginning to end.  Actually at the end she was helping out in our office and had no trouble communicating with the gals at work.  

Personally I really enjoyed the struggles we had with language.  I never found it to do anything but add to the situation.  I enjoyed helping her learn English.  I was in a situation where I could take the time to take her places such as the ESL classes.  I really feel the language difficulties played no part in us not working out nor did the age difference.

The fact was her English was very limited.  It was not non existant.   Had she arrived knowing how to say thank you and hello It very likely would have made the situation impossible.  

I still feel that language is not a barrier it is a challenge.  The man must be very patient and very supportive.  The woman must be the same plus willing and ambitious enough to throw herself into learning English on a crash basis.  That way by the time you get here she will have basic skills.   If she is in ESL classes and still working her tail off in an immersion situation in a few months the communication should be reasonable.  

If you meet a gal with limited or no English and decide you are right for each other and she is not working her tail off over there to learn English while she is waiting for the visa then forget it.  She is not motivated enough to make it.  It has zero chance.  If you are the type who gets irritated easily and have little tolerance, forget it.  It is not going to work.   Even if she is highly motivated and you are very patient you are raising the risk of failure much more.  Even VWRW who has excellent skills tells me sometimes that she finds it mentally tiresome to speak and write in English 24 hours a day.

Most of your post talks about you and how you felt...  the point about communication is us being able to understand how our (future) wives feel and what THEY want.

I know you're not disagreeing with the absolute necessity for good communication... I just think the focus might be misaligned...

You said something earlier about how to explain to a woman you wanted her to pick the color of wall paint. (or something close to that) You indicated it couldn't be done. Here is a tip for you. Take her into the bathroom and point to the wall. Then hand her some color chips from the paint store. Point to the wall again if it makes you feel safer. You could even hold a paintbrush in your hand. If she doesn't understand what you mean then she is stupid. A monkey could figure that out.

Funkola,

Now that you're confident you've got the home decorating down pat how do you discuss her concerns about religion?  Wait for her to take you to a Russian Orthodox Church, clutch her heart, cry and pull out photos of her hometown?

How about any health concerns she has???

How about when you go out to a party and she feels like someone was unwelcoming?  How can she discuss it with you and how can you show your support?

How about when you're at work and someone turns up at the door to fix the gas or electricity?  Can she call you at work and ask if it's OK to let them in the house?

How about when you're at work and delayed by hours because of something out of your control?  Do you call her and point to the road accident in front of you?

How about???  Geeez... we could go on forever.

The point I'm trying to make is that these wonderful women will be totally reliant on us when they leave everything they know behind.  You both may have the best of intentions but it's her that has been removed from everything she's ever known.  if you can't communicate about the small things DO NOT expect great things!

What is the debate about anyway???  If a lady can't speak English is there any problem her taking English classes BEFORE you make a decision that obviously needs a huge amount of communication?  Why rush someone into something she doesn't fully understand?  

I think a girl that takes a leap of faith like that is truly an optimist but the number of failed K-1's (apparently) kinda suggests optimism just isn't enough.

[Wayne B]

Max

Advice here is meant for you and not for the women.
I felt the post by Wyan picking on those trying to give sound advice was rather harsh and so I responded.
I don't think there are any teams here and that there is a compition going on which one team needs to win.
Yes sex is important but is a poor basis for a long term relationship.
JMHO

Mir, I have apologized to jb, and I am listening to all of you!

[swindoom]

I think it is vital by the time you get to serious thoughts about marriage she needs have a good ability in your language, or you in her's, not just talking/reading/writing but more importantly to be able to understand the subjects you are talking about.

I think a girl that takes a leap of faith like that is truly an optimist but the number of failed K-1's (apparently) kinda suggests optimism just isn't enough.

This could be also due to not visiting before coming over on a K-1/fiancee visa, my lady said it made a huge difference being able to see where/how I normally lived before we started getting serious about marriage.

[Mir]

The team I am referring to is "straight men of the world" vs "other men of the world"

Yes we say so and so bats for the other side etc.

Wyane

Great and good luck to you

[jb]

Who said the language barrier is not real? Such a negative defeatist attitude. Always the drama queen.  I get the impression you are an elderly man set in his ways and not willing to see that your way isn't THE way. It is just your's.

While I don't see the relevancy of my age in this topic, I do see that own command of the Russian language and my 7 year relationship with my RW wife might have some small bearing on my view point.  I also bring to the topic a certain fish-out-of-the-water experience I gleaned while working ex-pat in Russia long before I met my now wife.  I also do not believe you have ever lived in the Russian culture, day-by-day, made do without an interpreter in an everyday working environment with dozens of people who don't speak English, or had to go it totally alone in a foreign country without a support system in place for you to rely upon.  You've alluded to having traveled widely while in the military and you think this qualifies you to comment.  Frankly, funky, you are just a babe in the woods.

[funkola]

Yes Kuna every situation will be a challenge. But I give credit to the woman that she will have understood things will be difficult and that she will be learning English as time goes by. If she was destined to never learn English or if she had the mind of a moron than I agree it would be impossible. At least for me. Yet we are intelligent guys dealing with intelligent women.

[funkola]

Frankly, I agree with everything you just said. But I still don't see the language barrier as impending doom.

While I don't see the relevancy of my age in this topic, I do see that own command of the Russian language and my 7 year relationship with my RW wife might have some small bearing on my view point.  I also bring to the topic a certain fish-out-of-the-water experience I gleaned while working ex-pat in Russia long before I met my now wife.  I also do not believe you have ever lived in the Russian culture, day-by-day, made do without an interpreter in an everyday working environment with dozens of people who don't speak English, or had to go it totally alone in a foreign country without a support system in place for you to rely upon.  You've alluded to having traveled widely while in the military and you think this qualifies you to comment.  Frankly, funky, you are just a babe in the woods.

[Gator]

This thread has personal significance to me because I have been involved for over a year with a RW whose English is improving but still not good. 

Our time together has many great moments and our affection towards each other is very evident (you will know when a RW considers you her man).  At times our communication is better than what should be possible, even better than with an American woman.  Her core values have become evident without the need for interpreters. 

OTOH, there is much downtime: we can not discuss an intellectual issue, an invigorating topic can fizzle due to the hesitation in communicating, we can not take a serious subject to a high plateau, she sometimes becomes emotional and I can not address her problem with words, she sometimes becomes depressed and psychologically withdraws when going 3-4 weeks without hearing Russian except for calls home, etc.  This is not how I like to live as I am not the silent type of man.  Yet, when I see her with Russians it is very evident that she is loquacious.  So the potential is good.

I will not marry unless I feel mutual love, our goals are aligned, we can work as partners, and we are true friends.  We are making progress, albeit slow.  I was more enthusiastic about doing this two months ago.  Now, after spending a month together in Thailand and Laos, I realize that this will take more time than I originally thought. 

My RW is a fine, pleasant person.  My interpreter reminds me of her many good qualities that I would have difficulty ascertaining, e. g. she is not argumentative like most RW.  My interpreter believes she would adjust well and would make a loyal, loving wife with whom to share the rest of my life.  However, such is something I need to confirm on my own and for sure feel in my heart. 

[Gator]

Men who think sex is the answer have a big head smaller than their small head. 
   

[Wayne B]

Hello,

 WayneB,

  I think we live very close to each other as I'm in the League City area,NASA,and the area near I-10 and 146..lol I saw you mention that you were 20 miles south of I-10...I'm probably 35 miles south of I-10..lol

Makkin

Makkin, real close Beaumont!

[groovlstk]

Wayne,

Please heed the guys here who have actually bought a fiancee or wife from Russia/Ukraine to the USA/Europe. For your own sake and the sake of your fiancee, put the cheerleaders who want to tell you that the langauge barrier isn't much of an issue on ignore. Most of these guys have never made a trip to the FSU and are basing their advice on their most recent successful negotiation of a Slurpee purchase from a 7-11 clerk. Whether you believe it or not, the men who are married or engaged are pulling for your success more than the artists and dabblers, here.

Have you had any serious arguments with your fiancee, yet? Because that's when you'll need a common language most, and believe me her stress levels will be so high and her isolation so complete when she arrives here that even the slightest disagreement can escalate to the point where she's reaching for her suitcase...

I flummoxed to see people embrace the old agency BS ("what language barrier? love is the universal language!") without the slightest guile yet immediately discount advice here from guys who's successfully done this. 

[catzenmouse]

Most of these guys have never made a trip to the FSU and are basing their advice on their most recent successful negotiation of a Slurpee purchase from a 7-11 clerk.

 

 That can be quite an accomplishment now. I wonder if they did it in Hindi or Lebanese? 

Back On Topic and Sorry if You Find This Harsh,

 No matter how much you may like a challenge or how much you "know" that anything can be overcome, until you have actually done it you Simply Don't KNOW Anything. You may believe or think something but don't even start with what you KNOW about doing this. That is the ultimate showing of arrogance and with another real person hanging in the balance of stupidity as well.

 Ken