Overcoming the language barrier

[Markus]

If you ask someone to marry you before you can talk together in a common language, you are taking a gigantic risk.  One Week Wonders do that....

Mark might have been lucky, but for him to advocate it will work for everyone is giving foodhardy advice.  Kinda like the California Gold Rush...just pan for gold and you will have it.  Never mind that most died on their way to the gold fields, or found no gold when they got there.

And BTW-- I searched for three years--made a dozen trips.  During that time I was exclusively "with" one girl with very poor English for a year.  We did not know each other at all.  Why?  Because we could not even talk together.  I was lucky to escape.

I finally got smart and started dating only girls with good English.  From there, I got lucky and found a gem.  But it took time, and a bigger sample than one.

Mark, I congratulate you for finding a good relationship, and developing it over time. I think you were very lucky the girl you proposed to turned out to be a good person for you, which you confirmed when she finally started having conversations with you in English.  But for you to recommend such a long shot to others is not responsible, IMHO,

Simoni,

I just got back from Germany on Sunday and today is Wednesday. My wife has been in Russia for 1 month, and we were happy to see each other again. Today, as I begin responding, my wife asked me what I was typing and I told her what you and many other people have advocated, and she asked me "why?" I could not answer that question. But, I do see your justification.

Because you couldn't make it work, it's wrong for anyone else to do it, except for me because I was lucky. That's some really smart stuff to support your opinion. Surely, you can do better than that. Perhaps the problem is you. Maybe you were the reason why you couldn't make it work. If men are like you, whatever that is, then you are correct in your opinion.  It takes a man who is willing to work at a relationship and has patience to make what I did work. Maybe you are that kind of man, but perhaps you chose the wrong non-English speaking RW. Don't blame your failed experience on a RW who doesn't speak much English. I was able to communicate and made it work. Perhaps you are mentally lazy and don't have much patience; I don't know. But, a man doing what I did can't be that way or the result will be the same as you experienced.

Also, I think you meant foolhardy instead of foodhardy.

I continue to recommend to men to not exclude women who don't speak much English when searching for a RW. It takes an effort from the man and RW and takes more patience than finding a lady who speaks English. I have never met in my life a RW that speaks better English than my wife, except for 2 RW I know who have lived in the U.S., one for 8 years, and one RW for 13-15 years. Don't underestimate the tenacity of RW when they are set to learn English. My wife learned quickly and is still learning.

When I was in Germany, knowing that most everyone speaks English, I talked to so many people in English without asking if they spoke English. But, one man I did ask if he spoke English. His response was, "Some." This guy spoke English without a problem, an experience in Germany that I have experienced over and over. So, a person who can speak English, but English is not their native language, normally say they speak English, but not good. How's your Russian?

But, perhaps I am drifting from the subject. How can a man really know the non-English speaking RW well enough to determine if he wants to marry her or not? The answer is subjective to each man. I will ask this question: How can a man really know the English speaking RW well enough to determine if he wants to marry her or not? Again, the answer will be subjective to each man. Now I will backtrack a little and say this.

Is it OK to propose during the 1st meeting together when the RW does speak good English? The next question would ask about what I did. So, getting beyond proposing during the 1st week, is it OK for a man to propose during the 3rd or 5th meeting together with an English speaking RW? Does the same answer apply to a RW who didn't speak much English when they first met? The answer to those questions are subjective and based upon the experiences of men who tried and failed and tried and have had success. So, the answers are always subjective to the man who has experience. Although, most answers against what I advocate are from men who have only experienced failure or have no experience in what I have proved to be OK.

I advocate to the men who are seeking RW to determine for themselves what is best for them. These men should not limit themselves to only English RW who speak English.  I believe that English speaking RW don't speak much better English than my non-English speaking RW that I married speaks today. It's a fallacy to say that there are many good English speaking RW in Russia, although there are some. I have not met one person from Russia that speaks good English. What men who appose what I am advocating, is to only seek a RW who speaks some English, and that English will be a surprise.

I have challenged each individual who goes against what I advocate, and some cry, like William3rd, and some just want to be right, like jb. Some just don't think my method was correct, and that's OK. In this section, the goal is not about being correct, but showing the facts to allow another man who is making a decision to decide for himself what he will do.

An advantage I have is that I'm living what I advocate, have been able to get the men who apposed what I did admit they were wrong about me, and am sitting in my home with my beautiful Russian lady, who will become a U.S. citizen in less than 3 years. I want to give to men who are searching for a lovely RW the same outlook that I had when I began. That's why I come against the opinions that I feel are wrong.

Mark

[Kuna]

Goodness gracious... are we still talking about this?

Mark... may I just ask... Do you think a common language is a plus or a minus when courting a person.

I'm not asking for a short story... just a "Positive" or Negative".


thanks,

Kuna

[Markus]

catzenmouse,

You talk about "Over the years...we...". Sir, I was going for my goal before this board had begun. So, explain to me how what I have experienced does not make sense. Are you a newbie? You have been to Russia 1-3 times compared to my 9 times, and I don't live in close to Russia like some folks. I'm a Texan boy. You refer to responsibility and what makes sense. Although you don't type it, step up to the plate and tell me how I did something that was against your "responsibility" and "sensibility" level.

Are you married? Have you followed my footsteps? If I am wrong, then how have I been married longer than you (going on your profile)? You relate buying a lottery ticket to what I advocate. Are you sure what I am advocating in this thread? Explain to me how a lottery ticket and what I am advocating are relative. Be careful though, the lottery is much more difficult. But, go for it and I will show your ignorance.

Your next paragraph about agencies and airline tickets, etc, are really out in left field. Are you sure you're typing the same thought pattern in the same thread? Maybe you are confused. If not, then explain yourself instead of beating around the bush.

Yes, I have had congratulations, but from very few. I'm not concerned about that. My  main goal is to provide a direction to men beginning that many of you appose. You think it's a "rub your nose in it" attitude. If what you say is correct, I could go that direction. But, because I'm actually living what I advocate, it's folks like you who think I'm trying to prove myself correct. That was my goal, but the 2 folks I went after, after 3 years of chatting, they saw the light. I have no desire to prove myself correct. I'm already correct by experience.

I have no idea what you're trying to convey in your thoughts. But then again, I perceive you as speaking good English. It's ok though, I'm used to taking extra time to determine what folks are saying, even if they speak English. Keep in mind, my tolerance with you is from my patience with my wife. She's learning too.


rivardco,

It's ok man. But, the volume level in what I believe in will increase. Just ask some questions to me and I will let you know where I'm coming from.

Mark

[Markus]

Goodness gracious... are we still talking about this?

Mark... may I just ask... Do you think a common language is a plus or a minus when courting a person.

I'm not asking for a short story... just a "Positive" or Negative".


thanks,

Kuna


Kuna,

Good question and a challenging one. I will respond with a question:

Your question referred to "courting a person." Well with the divorce rate above 40% in the U.S. the answer is yes by a little but no overall.  One would hope for a 95% percent staying married rate with a common language, but, the stats go against a common language being positive in the U.S. So, overall no.

Mark

[Kuna]

Your question referred to "courting a person." Well with the divorce rate above 40% in the U.S. the answer is yes by a little but no overall.  One would hope for a 95% percent staying married rate with a common language, but, the stats go against a common language being positive in the U.S. So, overall no.

Mark

What sort of answer is that Mark??? Come on... seriously!  Maybe language didn't make a difference in your relaitonship because your wife couldn't tell you talked in circles.

FACT:
If you can't communicate with your future bride you CANNOT understand her future goals and desires, you can't understand her values and you can't say IN ANY WAY that you're making a rational decision.

Mark... you were lucky... very very lucky...  and I congratulate you... but it's irrespoinsible to advise others to marry someone they don't understand. This doesn't mean men should ONLY pursue girls that speak English but it does mean it would be wise to share a common language before marrying.

You'll disagree... that's your right... but please don't throw new members to the slaughter by telling them language isn't important.

Kuna

[Markus]

Kuna,

I'm confused at your response. You asked the question "Mark... may I just ask... Do you think a common language is a plus or a minus when courting a person."  Your question covered may nations and cultures and I answered according to my nation, the U.S., although the same statistics I quoted could be applied to other nations.

You then want to come directly at me and my wife (an emotional response). If you want to ask me a question, and I don't answer in the way of words you want to hear, perhaps you have asked the wrong question. What do you want to know? Be specific and don't be afraid. Don't get mad at me because you don't know how to ask the correct question.

In your anger and emotional response at my answer you state: FACT:
If you can't communicate with your future bride you CANNOT understand her future goals and desires,....  Keep in mind that the word "FACT" is your word not mine. Now, I'm assuming you know my future bride is my current wife and we have been married for close to 3 years.  But, the way you ask questions, I'm not sure if you do understand.  I'm living proof that your "FACT" is a "FALLACY." I'm living the exact opposite of your "FACT."

You quote a "FACT" based upon very little experience compared to mine and I'm saying your "FACT" is only opinion based upon the air that you breathe. You have nothing to base your "FACT" upon except you and those who agree with you. Well, sir, I'm living your "FACT" into the ground everyday and you are wrong.

You then state: but it's irresponsible  to advise others to marry someone they don't understand.  When will you and those who read your words understand what I am advocating here. NO where have I advocated what you stated above. Surely, even if you disagree with me, you will get the "FACTS" straight. But, I perceive you as a man who really doesn't care to "READ" what a person is advocating. If you will go back a few posts, you will see what I'm advocating. My assertions are nothing close to what you have said I am advocating. Can you do me a favor and post without your emotions and begin using study habits and try to read exactly what I'm advocating? Don't create your own "thoughts" as to what I am advocating.

Mark

[Simoni]

What sort of answer is that Mark??? Come on... seriously! 

... but please don't throw new members to the slaughter by telling them language isn't important.

Good post, Kuna.

But I think this guy is hopeless.  If he truly thinks asking a stranger to marry him, as he did, are better odds than dating a girl for months before proposing, then he is incapable of discussion.  Obviously, he had zero in depth discussions with the girl he proposed to, since she did not speak English.

[Simoni]

Perhaps the problem is you. Maybe you were the reason why you couldn't make it work. If men are like you, whatever that is, then you are correct in your opinion.  It takes a man who is willing to work at a relationship and has patience to make what I did work.

Mark, the point is that you will not know if the girl is right for you UNTIL you know her extremely well--through hundreds of hours of conversation in a common language.

So, no--the problem was not me.  A man dates a girl to find out if she is right for him.  Finding out, before marriage, that she is NOT right is a good thing, not a problem.

[Kuna]

Kuna,

I'm confused at your response. You asked the question "Mark... may I just ask... Do you think a common language is a plus or a minus when courting a person."  Your question covered may nations and cultures and I answered according to my nation, the U.S., although the same statistics I quoted could be applied to other nations.

You then want to come directly at me and my wife (an emotional response). If you want to ask me a question, and I don't answer in the way of words you want to hear, perhaps you have asked the wrong question. What do you want to know? Be specific and don't be afraid. Don't get mad at me because you don't know how to ask the correct question.

In your anger and emotional response at my answer you state: FACT:
If you can't communicate with your future bride you CANNOT understand her future goals and desires,....  Keep in mind that the word "FACT" is your word not mine. Now, I'm assuming you know my future bride is my current wife and we have been married for close to 3 years.  But, the way you ask questions, I'm not sure if you do understand.  I'm living proof that your "FACT" is a "FALLACY." I'm living the exact opposite of your "FACT."

You quote a "FACT" based upon very little experience compared to mine and I'm saying your "FACT" is only opinion based upon the air that you breathe. You have nothing to base your "FACT" upon except you and those who agree with you. Well, sir, I'm living your "FACT" into the ground everyday and you are wrong.

You then state: but it's irresponsible  to advise others to marry someone they don't understand.  When will you and those who read your words understand what I am advocating here. NO where have I advocated what you stated above. Surely, even if you disagree with me, you will get the "FACTS" straight. But, I perceive you as a man who really doesn't care to "READ" what a person is advocating. If you will go back a few posts, you will see what I'm advocating. My assertions are nothing close to what you have said I am advocating. Can you do me a favor and post without your emotions and begin using study habits and try to read exactly what I'm advocating? Don't create your own "thoughts" as to what I am advocating.

Mark

Geez Mark...  why do you do that?  When anyone disagrees with your opinion you claim they're angry...  Bit defensive are we?  

Dude... there's no anger in my post... I'm simply pointing out that you're talking rubbish when you downplay the importance of language.

I said in my post congrats to you... you seem like your a very lucky boy but newbies should be aware that your approach is high risk and there would be dozens of failed examples for the odd lucky one.

Now I'm not calling you odd... I'm just saying that you are giving bad advice.

Here's an idea.  

Why don't we get the next 10 newbies that join RWD to go to FSU and find the first hot chick that speaks no English and tell them to marry her and report back here in three or four years to tell us if they still own their houses.  I'm betting the vast majority would fail.

That's all I'm saying.. it's high risk and irresponsible...  it's not impossible!

I know you're just justifying your earlier decisions and again I say "Good onya"... but please be careful giving out bad advice.  There's enough fantasy and propaganda in the MOB business without adding bad advice that's going to hurt the men AND women involved in this pursuit.

Cheers dude... chin up.  All is ok!

Kuna

[Mir]

Why don't we get the next 10 newbies that join RWD to go to FSU and find the first hot chick that speaks no English and tell them to marry her

Reminds me of a funny incidence during my recent visit. One afternoon in St Petersburg was unusually warm for spring so I was sitting in a outdoor restaurant. The lunch was pleasantly fermenting with the beer; lots of lovely girls were passing by in their summer dresses. I don’t remember how it happened but my friend dared me to ask the girls if they will marry me. I asked her to get up and save me if I start getting a beating and then proceeded to ask 6-7 single girls as they came by : ‘ Excuse me, I am from England, will you marry me?’ A couple just looked at me funnily and hurried on, all the others just laughed and said:’ No, thank you’ When I got back my friend was on the floor sick with laughter

[catzenmouse]

OWW,

 I began to answer you questions but I see clearly now that OWW does not stand for One Week Wonder but actually for One Waste of Words. As such I will not waste any more on you. I'll just join your fan club and you can be my new hero forever. Ok?

 Hopefully that chip on your shoulder won't give you back problems down the road.

Ken

[ScottinCrimea]

How does the saying go?, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull..."  Maybe it was too early in the morning when I tried to read OWW's posts, but they gave me a headache trying to figure out what the heck he was trying to say in his ramblings.  One of his comments that was totally assinine is the following:

It's a fallacy to say that there are many good English speaking RW in Russia, although there are some. I have not met one person from Russia that speaks good English.

I don't know what village he hides in when he goes to Russia, but I have met Russians and Ukrainians that speak far better English than he does.  Maybe some might have an accent, which seems to be his definition of good vs. poor English, but they used much better grammar, had a larger vocabulary, and certainly could get their point across much more clearly than he is capable of.  No wonder that he didn't care if he and his wife communicated well before they married.  Maybe he's accustomed to not having anyone understand what the heck he is saying.

[KenC]

Marrying a woman that you cannot communicate is like eating a box of chocolates---you never know what you're going to get.
(The Forest Gump reference just seemed appropriate for OWW)

KenC

[catzenmouse]

Marrying a woman that you cannot communicate is like eating a box of chocolates---you never know what your going to get.
(The Forest Gump reference just seemed appropriate for OWW)

KenC

I'll take Forrest any day. He at least had the ability to recognize if he was being stupid. Waste of Words is like a 5 year old arguing just because they can without making any sense or realism involved.

Ken

[I/O]

There is just one small thing which hasn't been discussed in this thread and that is the woman who can't communicate with the guy.  What does it say about her if she agees to marry a guy with whom she cannot freely communicate? 

Form your own opinion, I have long since formed mine.  The summary of which is my own situation and that is, my fiance' would never have agreed to marry me before we had relatively free communication.  She just wouldn't have come into that in ten fits, not that I would have considered asking either.  Sure, I hoped we would get to that stage but I was always fully prepared for the reality that improved communication might reveal some deal breaker for both of us.

I've been pretty cautious in some ways in all of this and with a lady whom had almost no English in the first instance, I have found that it requires extraordinary effort over a long period of time.  Even with our cautiousness, it is still possible that it could go toes up in the future, who knows?  However as with anything else, I am at least satisfied that we have made every reasonable effort to cover as many bases as is possible.  That is "Risk Management" in it's simplest form.

Is it impossible?  Of course not..!!  Would I recommend it to a freshman?  Certainly not...!!  As for TOWW, I've been guilty of writing some pretty odd posts, but the prolixity of his almost take the cake I think.  Directly: OWW You have done it, as I intend to, against the popular thinking.  Armstrong made it to the moon also but would I recommend that everyone working for NASSA try? Go figure.

I/O   

[Daveman]

...Sure, I hoped we would get to that stage but I was always fully prepared for the reality that improved communication might reveal some deal breaker for both of us.

This quote above sums it up... I 'plan' to succeed at this as well, with a Russian woman who cannot yet communicate freely with me.. it's a slow process and deliberate process, but we both have to be ready to accept a deal breaker which could come up. 

It took 5 months for a woman who could speak English almost fluently to begin to reveal she was in fact the daughter of Satan.  How much easier is it to hide character flaws if there is not a free communication? And that's just the relationship part.  Hell, maybe I am the Son of Satan and can hide it from her very easily until I have her trapped in my clutches, how will she know??  Perhaps she will have doubts, and doubt is the enemy of commitment and undermines hard work.

Add on to that the difficulty she will face trying to get along in a country where she cannot really function except for very simple tasks, e.g., buying a few groceries if she can WALK to the store, cleaning the house, cooking (after she figures out the temp conversions, etc.).  Maybe she won't mind being in that situation where she is completely dependent on her man for everything. I don't know, but it doesn't seem to be very healthy for her... especially coming from a place where women are very independent from an early age.

I look at the engagement as a promise of marriage, not as a promise to get to know each other better and see what happens.  Sure there is always a risk of it not working later, even with the best approach of minimizing risks as much as possible, and with the greatest effort and commitment.

Mark did it a little bit backwards with the early proposal to my thinking, but he and she still put in the hard work and commitment prior to and after marriage.  They, from what I read, did have about a year and a half to break the engagement prior to marriage if they found a deal breaker.  So, Mark's situation is still different from the colossal blunder of meeting a woman, proposing marriage, and starting the visa process immediately upon returning home.

I am certainly one for less government intervention into our lives, but I think there would be far less divorce, K-1 failures, and outright horror stories if a K-1 required a minimum of 1 year after meeting, and a minimum of 90 days face to face time as well as a minimum requirement for language proficiency (not fluency, but at least 'good') in the country of application.

Dave

edit: i understand the 90 days face time would be difficult for many because of work/vacation schedules.. but a 90 day fiancee VISIT visa where she MUST return home before being granted the full K-1 could be a viable option.

[Mir]

No wonder that he didn't care if he and his wife communicated well before they married.  Maybe he's accustomed to not having anyone understand what the heck he is saying.

Thats really funny hahaha.

[I/O]

I am certainly one for less government intervention into our lives, but I think there would be far less divorce, K-1 failures, and outright horror stories if a K-1 required a minimum of 1 year after meeting, and a minimum of 90 days face to face time as well as a minimum requirement for language proficiency (not fluency, but at least 'good') in the country of application.

FWIW, although I understand it is not always enforced, our SC-300/309 (equivelent of the K-1/3) does have a regulation that there must be 9 months between first meeting and lodgement of application.  Of course what constitutes a first meeting is seemingly a subject that is being tossed around in the courts from time to time these days.

There is also a general move by the federal government to enforce a minimum level of English for immigrants.  There is a deal of arguement about this, but personally, if it ever got up, I would not be against it.

I/O

[Markus]

Good post, Kuna.

But I think this guy is hopeless.  If he truly thinks asking a stranger to marry him, as he did, are better odds than dating a girl for months before proposing, then he is incapable of discussion.  Obviously, he had zero in depth discussions with the girl he proposed to, since she did not speak English.

Simoni,

You are assuming too much in your opinion. You are wrong on everything above including that I'm hopeless. I'm always hopeful. You are obviously missing what I am advocating here. I will repeat it again. I don't believe a man just starting out should limit himself to finding a RW who speaks English. A man could miss out on a very good lady who doesn't speak much English.   Read those two sentences over and over. Those sentences are what I'm advocating. You keep jumping to the time on my proposal. Well, I even made it work with proposing on the 1st meeting. You would think I had two things against me: 1) Proposing on the the 1st meeting and 2) She didn't speak much English.  I made it work with both things against me, if they were really against me. So, apart from my proposal time, I'm advocating the sentences above about a man limiting himself to English speaking RW.

Now, is what I'm advocating clear to you? If you or anyone doesn't agree that's ok. But, how is a man making a mistake by going for a RW who doesn't speak much English?

Mark

[Dan C.]

Mark,
  The biggest problem I see with your comment that, " A man could miss out on a very good lady who doesn't speak much English," is that if she does not speak much English it is hard to know if she is the right one for me.  Looks aside, the only way I have of evaluating a woman is by talking to her.  With a language barrier it will be hard to know if she is a good one.
  In your case you made it work, my hat's off to you.  Otherwise, I will stick to those who know English well.

Dan C.

[Markus]

Dan C,

Thanks for your comments. I kinda feel that since you started the thread and you have perhaps read enough to decide for yourself, I'll respond with some comments and conclude my opinion. This is just my opinion.

There's no doubt that the communication ability is more difficult going the route I did. But, my heart was set upon my current wife. I had already experienced the scam thing, which is what got me interested in RW in the first place, but, I had enough intuition, without knowing anything about RW, to avoid the potential scam situations.

I exchanged communication with many other ladies before her, but nothing clicked. But, what so many men don't know who have never tried a lady who doesn't speak much English is it still possible to communicate. Keep in mind that I used an interpretor over the phone to begin with and all our letters were translated, and all this before I met her. In person, it's difficult to explain, but it wasn't that difficult to communicate. I'm an outgoing person and I didn't get frustrated. My wife made an effort to learn English while in Russia, and after my 3rd visit, the visit when we got married, her English was better, but wasn't as good as she speaks today. The whole thing was a slow process (except for my proposal, of course).

I must say that I found a wonderful lady. We get along very good, except for the normal disagreements in a marriage. We don't have any problem working out our differences. She tells me the way it's going to be, and I agree (just kidding). Of course, I have found that if I agree with her, it's much easier on me.

Perhaps is was our determination to make it work, perhaps we got lucky. But, although the same may not be for you, there may be another man who is beginning who narrows  his search down to a RW who doesn't speak much English. Each situation is different.

I wish you the best,

Mark

[Sort]

I have started to work on the Russian course i found online.
Holly shit this is a hard language.
I keep twisting my tongue and get it messed up....
I will not give up because i think like this.

If i am to find a wife from Ukraine why should i not learn her language?
If she is to learn Swedish so why not?
And the response i get from telling the women that i am trying to learn Russia is very good.
I will try and work on the course every evening and i will learn it.
Even that it is 18 years i quit school and have big problems with this i wont give up.

And i will not have a language barrier in the way for me to find happiness


here is the link again..
http://www.princeton.edu/russian/

[ScottinCrimea]

Sort, Russian is the only language I have studied where the more you learn the more difficult it gets.  Just when I think I have something down, they throw another curve at me.  But hang in there, it is doable.  And it's definitely worthwhile as it will make your travels there easier, make it easier for you to communicate with a Russian woman even if she speaks English, and it will definitely be appreciated by them.

[Daveman]

Perhaps is was our determination to make it work, perhaps we got lucky. But, although the same may not be for you, there may be another man who is beginning who narrows  his search down to a RW who doesn't speak much English. Each situation is different.

Mark, I hate to disillusion you, or your detractors, and I know you wear this One Week Wonder badge with honor and pride  , but for you, it's a misnomer.  You really are not a one week wonder.  You're a year and a half team player prior to marriage, and continued the commitment and hard work after. The  only thing one week about you was the early proposal, which I didn't do nor would I suggest to anyone else to do this, but you still didn't run home, file the K-1 and marry this girl a foot out of the starting gate.  There's a big difference in how you approached this as opposed to the real OneWeekWonders out there who will crash and burn the majority of the time.

Anyway, you have had some wonderful success with a woman who did not share a common language with you. Your input and assistance to others of us doing the same thing, but at earlier stages can be invaluable.

I wish you continued success.

Dave

[Markus]

Daveman,

I really liked your post. I must say that my name on this board is sarcastic and I took that name from a OWW thread several years ago about me (a record thread by Kenc). My honor and pride rests in the fact that I found a very good wife, not in the OWW name. Too many people take that name way too serious.

You are very close to your timeline about me; hence, not making me a real OWW. But, I have never seen an official definition. Either way, I'll still be the OWW here. I have fun with that name, and I did propose during the 1st week of meeting her in person. But, you won't see me recommending to anyone to propose during the 1st week of meeting a lady. However, if a man did, I may or may not agree with him. It depends on the communication prior to proposing and other things too. No two situations are the exact same.

I must first eat my words to Dan C, claiming I have concluded my opinion, because here I am responding to you. My opinion is already known. You state the following: Your input and assistance to others of us doing the same thing, but at earlier stages can be invaluable.  Keep in mind your sentence is your opinion and perhaps a shared opinion with other men.

I don't think it takes a Brain Surgeon to conclude that communicating with a lady who doesn't speak good English is more difficult than communicating with a lady who does. My whole point is that it is not impossible to know her. And the Brain Surgeon thought would say, "YES" it's more difficult. It takes more work. It's OK if you feel my opinion is invaluable. I respect your opinion, especially since you are beginning, based upon your quote above. 

I haven't seen the facts about how it's so bad going for a lady who didn't speak much English except for opinions.  One man used a failed relationship as justification. He blames it on her English. That's easy to do. I'm still waiting on someone to explain to me how it's so bad for a man to go for a RW who doesn't speak much English.

Mark