K-2 Child

[START2]

I'd like to know exactly what document will be needed to allow the child to travel with the fiancee from Ukraine. I have read and have been told that she will need either a signed and notarized statement from the father giving his permission for the child to leave or some sort of court oder say she has custody. As you know, ususally in Ukr. when the divorce was granted no custody decision is made. The mom usually keeps the child. Is there an easy way to do this if the father wants to be difficult and not sign permission? He has very little contact with the child for 4 years but comes around from time to time.

[Son of Clyde]

I'm not sure if an official document is needed or if the Embassy will accept a notarized statement. It will need to be translated to English.

Make sure the child is added to her international passport and a medical exam is done for the child.

Sometimes people have to "buy off" the father.

[wxman]

If child is under 16, you must get a notarized, signed at dated permission from father of child and it must be translated to english. Embassy site does not clearly state that translation must be notarized, but to be safe I would do that too. Also, your fiancee must get a photocopy of the father's local passport showing both the photo page and signature page. I'm going through this process right now. As far as bribe, you will likely have to shell out money. Generally $500 to $1000. The fathers know that Ukrainian law will not allow child to leave without permission, so they have you by the b**ls. :X

[wxman]

She can also get court order for sole custody and that takes about 6 months. If he is paying child support on a regular basis, the odd of getting sole custody is low. However, if he is a deadbeat father, the odds are much better, or if he waves his rights.  

[START2]

Thanks for the replies. I thought there might be more knowledge about this this but the ideas about court and then fathers permission is what I've been told and read as well. anyone else out there go through this yet as far as bringing the child here? What did you do?

[wxman]

In packet 4 from embassy in Kiev, it states that you must have written permission, signed and notarized by father, along with photocopy of his local passport and signature page. The only exceptions to this is if father is dead (you will need proof of this), or your fiancee has court approved sole custody.

[Turboguy]

Well lets see, I have heard it takes a bribe for a lot of the fathers to sign but now we have a new alternative.   If the father is dead.   Hummm, You can either use a 38 or get him drunk and give him the money to cross the very busy street for another bottle of Vodka.

[START2]

Yea, we tried that one but he made it, just barely!

[acrzybear]

She can also get court order for sole custody and that takes about 6 months. If he is paying child support on a regular basis, the odd of getting sole custody is low. However, if he is a deadbeat father, the odds are much better, or if he waves his rights.  

Does anyone know which court she would have to go to specificly? I am running in to this problem with her nine year old daughter.  The husband wants the daughter to leave Odessa and live with him in Moscow, and he refuses to let his daughter (and therefore ex-wife) leave the country.  Of course like any caring mother L refuses to leave Odessa without her daughter (and I would not ask her to, I firmly believe it's all or nothing).  The father visits the daughter once or twice a year, but refuses to assist financially (except to spoil her and let L be the bad person). This has been an on going thing, one day he has no problem with her leaving and when it comes down to it he refuses.

Any suggestions or comments? (aside from the obvious of forgeting about the whole thing)

Gracias' and  Danke in advance

[wxman]

Many Ukrainians (especially eastern Ukraine) have duel citizenship as many are actually of Russian decent. On my fiancee's local passport it lists nationality as Russian and Ukrainian. of course she was born in Ukraine, so technically a Ukrainian citizen. She could move to Russia, change citizenship for her and her daughter, then you can file K1 visa. From what I have heard, the US embassy in Moscow does not require a letter from father for daughter to leave Russia. of course all of this is a shady way of doing business. She needs to get a lawyer in Ukraine find out how to get sole custody. I doubt the father will be allowed to take child to Russia without the mother's written consent, just like she can't take daughter out of Ukraine without father's consent.  

[wxman]

Does anyone know which court she would have to go to specificly? I am running in to this problem with her nine year old daughter.  The husband wants the daughter to leave Odessa and live with him in Moscow, and he refuses to let his daughter (and therefore ex-wife) leave the country.  Of course like any caring mother L refuses to leave Odessa without her daughter (and I would not ask her to, I firmly believe it's all or nothing).  The father visits the daughter once or twice a year, but refuses to assist financialy (except to spoil her and let L be the bad person). This has been an on going thing, one day he has no problem with her leaving and when it comes down to it he refuses.

Any suggestions or comments or suggestions? (aside from the obvious of forgeting about the whole thing)

Gracias' and  Danke in advance

If he is not paying child support, your fiancee is in total control. Tell her to see a lawyer as soon as possible. It will not be too hard for her to prove lack of support, and he will lose custody. in fact the lawyer can go after him, threaten him about not paying child support and when he comes back for hearing, have him arrested. When she files for sole custody, the process will take 2 to 6 months depending whether or not you bribe a judge, they will give notice to father to appear in 30 days for hearing. If he does not show, he loses. If he does show, they could demand immediate payment of past support. I would imagine after a few threatening letters from a lwayer on what might happen if he shows up for hearing, he might just sign a waiver.

[Vaughn]

Acrzybear,

 If you really want to pursue this, like wxman suggests,
she must get a lawyer to handle the details. Her moving to Russia to go K-1 without the letter is a stretch, but just in case: as wxman wrote:

From what I have heard, the US embassy in Moscow does not require a letter from father for daughter to leave Russia.

True. We got the letter anyway. Daughter piggybacked K-2 in Mom's visa, but had no Russian passport of her own. Guess what? This summer our daughter travels to Russia with Grandma and needs her own passport. Sure as fate would have it, the Russian Embassy REQUIRES the letter from her natural father (actually a court document signed by him) in order for her to secure the passport. So she didn't need it to exit Russia, but sure as hell needed it to re-enter without Mom by her side.

[START2]

I'm not sure what specific court she'll have to go to, but her first step will go to see a lawyer that's experienced in family law and has done this before. I'm going through this at this time. This is for Ukraine so if your in Russia it maybe different.  1. go see the lawyer and explain the situation. 2. He/she will file some documents. 3. In a few days a judge will be appointed for the case. 4. In 10 to 12 days she'll have a hearing with the judge. Shell' need statements from friends and neighbors about his character.  Also a letter from the childs teacher saying the absent parent is never near. 5. A letter will be sent to the absent parent giving him usually 30 days to come and tell his side.  If hes' a no show then usually case is settled there.  6. If he does show then it goes to another person something like our DHS here who considers both sides and then makes a reccomendation to the judge. ....All this could take up to 6 months considering court dockets, but usually less. Alittle money always speeds things up as i have experienced already. Now we're at the point where it's about 7 or 8 days until she see's the judge. I also found out that my gal is friends with the DHS person and she knows the ex. I hope this makes a difference.  I'll keep you posted on the proceedings if you like.

[acrzybear]

Start2

Thanks for the information.  She is in Odessa, so it should be the same as you're going through.  A couple of questions

 1) approximately how much (ball park figure) will a good lawyer and the proceedings cost?

2) anyone have any suggestions for a good lawyer in Odessa?

Thanks

[START2]

Please keep in mind that this is not the USA so rates will be much less. My fiancee is in a smaller town, has a good experienced lawyer and the retainer was only $25 us. I know, it almost sounds ridiculous but thats what it was. We're just use to have to dealing with blood sucking law making attorneys here who btw make the laws to support their craft. We'll give him a little more when the transaction is over. Of course the judge will need to be taken care of to but for you, it might be different. Odessa is a huge city and dealings might be a bit different. I personally don't know any attorneys there but have your woman ask friends or colleagues. If the father is absent and in another country and gives no financial support, he may not even have to be notified. Just do a little leg work.

[acrzybear]

Well the latest drama to this saga is that L went to see a Lawyer and even though  her husband has not been providing regular child support, he has been  buying things (the latest being a computer) for their daughter on a fairly regular basis it would be difficult to prove he was inattentive as a father.  Plus their 10 year old daughter has stated that she wants to live with her father in Moscow (which he is more then willing to do) since he treats her better by buying things all the time. 

Children always go for the parent that spoils them instead of the one is always there and provides for them, just nature I suppose.   So at this point I have no idea where things are going and I'm just thinking this whole thing isn't going to work. 

As I said in another thread I didn't go to Odessa looking for a wife, but to enjoy myself and have a good time (which I did) and meet the lady I had been writing to.  If things do not work out I have no regrets, only fond memories of a beautiful country.  I think perhaps I shall travel to Europe and also visit Prague this year.  Anyone know much about Prague?  I'm just looking at traveling and visiting historical sights (one of my passions is history)

[START2]

Maybe this is a good lesson for others to learn from before starting  to get to serious with a woman who has kids. Before it goes to far, I'd find out exactly what the relationship is between the dad and the kids. If  good, then chances are are he'll not sign anything that will take his kids away.  However, from my experience and having several Ukrainian friends, the dad oe ex is usually a no show except at the local market buying vodka. Support is the park bench he passes out on.

  Before getting to serious and asking to marry your sweetheart, it might be a good idea for him to sign a legal document asap or have your sweety go to court and get sole custody. I'm learning the ropes to this now and will post as it goes forward. Friday is court day for my fiance to see the judge and tell her side and supply statements from friends and neighbors and even the childs teacher that the ex is a deadbeat. She hated to do it in the beginning but now that she's humbled herself to talk about private problems, she feels a huge weight off her shoulders. Even the ex's men friends have wriiten in her favor. Thank goodness I got along well with all of them. most of her girlfriends husbands couldn't speak a word of english but when I would visit and we'd go out, that good old game of RUSSIAN BILLIARDS,  was all the conversation we needed. I was thankful I had some skill  for never playing before. It' s a difficult game and one game can last an hour or more. When asked if I wanted to play american pool I always said no lets play more of this and I noticed smiles all around even though RB can be very frustrating. The table is at least 10' and the pockets are only maybe 1/4 inch bigger than the ball if that. When you go out the wives visit and the men play pool. Really a very good time.  I digress.

I think this is a problem that doesn't come up much or maybe I haven't been around long enough to read much about it. Could be it's unique to Ukraine. I'm sorry Bear this is happening to you, but at least you know it time to move on. Good luck.

[wxman]

Start2,

You hit it on the head. I'm going through this very process too. He is a deadbeat father, and the little girl hates him for ignoring her. He is missing out on a wonderful life with his daughter. What bothers me most is that the little girl is the one being punished by all of his inactions. I do not feel guilty at all bringing her to America. I have gained more from this child than he ever will. Her trust and love. if he was truly a good father, my relationship with my fiance would have ended early, as I could never take a child away from a father that loves his child. That would make me as bad as a deadbeat to do so.

[acrzybear]

Start2

Thanks for the kind words.  Things would be easier if the dad was a deadbeat, but he does just enough to spoil the daughter so she gets on his side and make things more difficult for the mother.  So now the daughter has stated that she does not want to leave the Ukraine and the mother would not even think of abandoning her daughter (and I would lose respect for her if she did).  I haven't heard back from her since Saturday, so at this point things are up in the air.  Ifshe wants to do a custody battle with the ex-husband I will support her as much as I can, but if she wants things to remain as they are then it will be time for me to move on.

 

At this point I'm looking at going to Brussels, Germany and France for a total of two  weeks, if I don't go to Odessa, then I'll extend my stay to four weeks.