Liability for missed connections

[TwoBitBandit]

I'm planning my next trip to Russia.

On my last couple of trips, I've had some very close calls due to Aeroflot.  Like many things in Russia, Aeroflot is unpredicatable.  You never know if your flight will take off on time or at all.  Unfortunately, Aeroflot is the only way to get to where I'm going from SVO.

I usually get to Moscow and back from the USA on Lufthansa.

My question is this: on my return trip, if Aeroflot is late arriving in Moscow and I subsequently miss my flight on Lufthansa, does either carrier have any liability to get me home or on another flight?

And is the answer any different if you book all the tickets at the same time on the same itinerary?  Does either carrier's liability increase if they are all on the same itinerary?

[2tallbill]

DVA-Bit, I think that the airlines have better lobbyists then us consumers.
I doubt that they will be in anyway obligated to help you unless you are
riding them all the way.

Where are you going??  Just curious

Take care,

Bill

[Lily]

Probably yes. I'd buy another ticket for other line and then would consider suing Aeroflot for the cost of ride plus non-material damage, as the consumer law allows.
A legal advise would be recommended.

[I/O]

TBB:  There is a variety of obligations which are waived when it becomes an international/domestic series of flights.  IF you use an agent to arrange the entire itinerary, then the obligation for service falls on the agent.

Herin lies the parodox of self booking or agent booking.  There is no certainty you would be compensated anyway, but in the event of agent arranged schedules, you do have some right of recourse and in my experience are far more likely to receive compensation from an agent at home than you are from either airline you have mentioned.

Frankly, from experience, if you book the flights directly yourself, then I would give you about zip chance of getting compensation if something goes wrong.  Thus, as a vet of about 140 flights here, there and all over, I always use an agent.  Certainly I check everything else available and if the total deal is more than $50 more through the agent than I can arrange directly, I am all over them like a bad rash.

The short answer to your question is not simple.  However, I avoid L/H and A/F at almost all costs.  They are two airlines I would need to be extremely desperate before I would use.  That said, I believe in this circumstance, an agent with a 24 hour support service is the best way to book.

If you are overly concerned, then you do also have the option to insure your tickets.  I don't often do this, but in some circumstances I do.

FWIW

I/O

[BC]

Aeroflot joined Sky Team Alliance a couple months ago.

This should allow them to code share flights and issue thru tickets on one itinerary with their partner airlines.

Think this would resolve the missed flight issue.

http://www.skyteam.com/skyteam

[wiz]

My question is this: on my return trip, if Aeroflot is late arriving in Moscow and I subsequently miss my flight on Lufthansa, does either carrier have any liability to get me home or on another flight?

And is the answer any different if you book all the tickets at the same time on the same itinerary?  Does either carrier's liability increase if they are all on the same itinerary?

The answer to first one is : NO

IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to arrive on time and check-in for your flight.

For the second one: Yes

Book all your flights under one carrier like AERFLOT and yes they are responsible to accommodate you, offer another flight and provide you transport to your accommodation.

In a Code Sharing situation the carrier who issued the ticket is responsible to accommodate you, book another flight and provide you transport to your accommodation.

[Lily]

The answer to first one is : NO

IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to arrive on time and check-in for your flight.
 

Why not?
Understand that it's exactly the Aeroflot's delay that resulted in his being late for his transfer. 

[jb]

People have learned expensive lessons over this idea.  If you book your travel seperately, you are responsible for your lodging and meals in the case of a missed connection and a forced layover.  Trying to save a buck can wind up costing considerably more in the long run.

[Kuna]

Hmmmm....  I might have to book a flight independantly for my next trip but I'll be saving 900 "bucks".

In this case it might be worth the risk but I will be having a 3 hour stopover so hopefully that'll leave me enough time.   

*fingers crossed*

[jb]

Kuna,

Let me share with you my worst nightmare trip...  In August of 2001 I was headed back to Moscow, everything was booked on a single ticket,,, (Thanks God ~!), I flew from Texas to Washington DC on Continental Airlines where I was supposed to continue on to Moscow that evening on Aeroflot.  In those days Aeroflot only had one Boeing 767 which alternated between Washington on one trip and then to NYC on the next.  Of course with my luck, that one Boeing was delayed for maintenance in Moscow and didn't fly to Washington, (forced layover of one day), Aeroflot booked me into the Washington Airport Hilton (5 star hotel + meals, at no cost to me), and assured me the plane was en-route the next day.  Well, long story short, the Boeing did not leave Moscow at all.  Areoflot arranged for me to travel to Moscow via SwissAir through Geneva, so of course my checked bags did not arrive with me.  I was ever so grateful someone had suggested an extra change of clothes in my carry-on bag as it took two more days for my luggage to catch up with me in Moscow.

Two weeks later I'm on my way home, Aeroflot again, this time with a stop in Chicago, change planes to American Airlines for the trip home to Texas.  I was asleep in my seat when the flight attendant woke me up and said "we are landing".  I looked at my watch and thought to myself, "wow, we've made really good time, arriving in Chicago almost 3 hours early", then the flight attendant informed us we were landing in Quebec City, Canada instead of Chicago,,, and I'm saying:  "WTF~?  Is there something wrong with the plane?"  Visions of hard landings start running through my head.  We, the passengers, were then assured there was nothing wrong with the airplane, we were just making an unscheduled stop in Canada...  No other explanation was given.

At this point I should mention that the date was 9-11-01.  Yes, you guessed it, all American airspace was closed.  I spent 3 days in Canada as a guest of Aeroflot, (not quite a 5 star hotel this time, but still + meals), of course when we were finally given permission to takeoff and proceed to Chicago there were about a jillion other stranded passengers from every other airline trying to get home at the same time, hell, I couldn't even find a rent car to drive to Texas.  Aeroflot put me up in another 5 star hotel + meals until they could arrange a flight for me.

To this day I recommend Aeroflot as a really decent airline for International flights.  Their service was superb both coming and going when things got tough.  Of course, it helps that I speak a little Russian when dealing with agents at the different airports.

So that's my horror story, I pray no one else ever has to go through one like it.

[I/O]

JB: Interesting account.  Yep, we can ONLY speak as we find.  Obviously you found pretty dammed good with A/F. 

One sometimes scary little airline that flys out of here is Royal Brunei.  Headed for 7 weeks in northern Thailand, plane breaks down in Brunei, we spend two days in the best hotel within reach, 5 course meals at 3 in the morning, two rounds of golf on the best course on the island (not bad by any standard) more "Flash Harry" treatment at the hotel and then booked onto a Thai Airline flight to Bangkok.  All booked up to the Royal Brunei Tab.

Then after 2 months up there and thinking in zombie mode, got all organised to return home and realised I was two days late for my flight.  A few phone calls and they changed me onto the Saturday flight, and never charged me an extra cracker. 

I think they are just wonderful.

I/O

[Daveman]

For my next trip, I think I'm just going to hop (no pun intended) on that Kuna Express thing.  Even has a pouch for the carry-on items.  Looks like a helluva swimmer too for those transatlantic connections. 

[ScottinCrimea]

Sorry Dave, but Kuna's avatar is outdated since he met the little woman.  He just hasn't gotten around to changing it.  Here it is:

[TwoBitBandit]

Thanks for your advice, everyone.  I'm glad this thread came back to life and I got something out of it.

As much as I hate Aeroflot, I think I'm going to use them this time.  Since I'm flying within Russia, at least if I use them to get in and out of Russia I have much less chance of getting stranded in Moscow.

I was trying to stick with Lufthansa because I'm in the Star Alliance Gold Club which gives me some perks and extra miles, but it only takes having to buy a walk-up-fare ticket from Moscow->SFO once to pay for a lot of miles.

[Rvrwind]

Two Bit...I've flown Aeroflop on all but my first trip. Cheaper than most, better food than Air Canucklehead & better looking stewardesses. Never had a problem.
Lost my bags twice in all my flights & both times was Air Canucklehead that lost them on the domestic flght to Toronto to catch Aeroflop! Not too worry they are as good an airline as any & better than some.

[wiz]

Why not?
Understand that it's exactly the Aeroflot's delay that resulted in his being late for his transfer. 

Lily

If you read the Booking Conditions of the carrier on your ticket or on their site you will see that is what they say and of course it is right. Why should Aeroflot have to pay for his missed flight? He is not flying with them on the next leg. Delays can happen for many many reasons. Their responsibility is to fly you from A to B that you have booked with them.

BTW You are not a Newbie anymore.... rather a veteran.... so why don't you drop the Newbie from your name?

Lily would be just simple and nicer, like your photo.


JB

I do not understand why people think that Aeroflot is a bad airline and they provide bad service?

In my travel report in my "Dilemma" post I have praised their service from London to Ufa via Moscow. I don't know what was their service 10 years ago but today Aeroflot compete head on with any other Airline and in my view are much better from many other airlines. As about their prices...... they charge nearly 1/2 price from other airline.

All those tall guys who complain about the seat pitch, I would suggest to make comparisons with other airlines and you find are about the same. Of course we all have the option to book Business Class........

[wiz]

Sorry Dave, but Kuna's avatar is outdated since he met the little woman.  He just hasn't gotten around to changing it.  Here it is:

No you are wrong...He is busy......LOL

[TwoBitBandit]

Two Bit...I've flown Aeroflop on all but my first trip. Cheaper than most, better food than Air Canucklehead & better looking stewardesses. Never had a problem.
Lost my bags twice in all my flights & both times was Air Canucklehead that lost them on the domestic flght to Toronto to catch Aeroflop! Not too worry they are as good an airline as any & better than some.

I do not understand why people think that Aeroflot is a bad airline and they provide bad service?

In my travel report in my "Dilemma" post I have praised their service from London to Ufa via Moscow. I don't know what was their service 10 years ago but today Aeroflot compete head on with any other Airline and in my view are much better from many other airlines. As about their prices...... they charge nearly 1/2 price from other airline.

I've racked up my share of time on Aeroflot, and I'm totally unimpressed.  I've flown on them many times.

The worst was when I was flying from Moscow to Dniper, and they decided they couldn't land in Dniper.  Instead, they circled around for two hours and then landed in Rostov-on-Don.  I had to pay a taxi driver $300 to get to Dniper on time...  Boy, was that a long day.  And their customer service?  Well, um, it is very "Russian," if ya know what I mean.

[Lily]

Lily

If you read the Booking Conditions of the carrier on your ticket or on their site you will see that is what they say and of course it is right. Why should Aeroflot have to pay for his missed flight? He is not flying with them on the next leg. Delays can happen for many many reasons. Their responsibility is to fly you from A to B that you have booked with them.
 

The Booking Conditions may write otherwise but they are still unable to denounce Russian consumer law. I may not know the former but I am pretty confident with the latter. His airticket is a proof of his contract. The Aeroflot undertook his transportation from A to B with an obligation to arrive at a certain time. Due to the Aeroflot's failure to stick to this obligation, the client suffered financial damage, in particular, in amount of his lost next flight. Probably the client is entitled for damages.

also thanks for your kind words, but I think I'd have to re-register in order to change my forum's name..will talk to Dan about it.

[DKMM]

LOL Scott!  too funny!

In case noone answered definitively-and i could not tell from skimming the posts- no the airline is not obligated if it is not a code share flight.  however most travel agencies will make sure you get through if you booked the whole ticket through them and the fault is of the airline.

[wiz]

I've racked up my share of time on Aeroflot, and I'm totally unimpressed.  I've flown on them many times.

The worst was when I was flying from Moscow to Dniper, and they decided they couldn't land in Dniper.  Instead, they circled around for two hours and then landed in Rostov-on-Don.  I had to pay a taxi driver $300 to get to Dniper on time...  Boy, was that a long day.  And their customer service?  Well, um, it is very "Russian," if ya know what I mean.

Yes I know what you mean and have personal experience of their service......LOL

The facts remain, today, that Aeroflot has improved a lot and their service is equal if not better of many other airlines. If you fly with BA in most European flights you get a sandwich but Aeroflot is offering a menu to select and their food is good.

BTW I have been flying around for the past 40 years as part of my job and I can tell you many stories........... Yours was one of many! Yes for you was inconvenience and expensive and you should claim compensation because they did not provide you with the contracted service.

Today Aeroflot has a very modern fleet of 767, 757 and many types of Airbuses.

Sorry but in my view I will fly any time and with their prices more.

LILY

Aeroflot is a member of IATA and they have to follow their rules. Your consumer legislation of course allows the airlines for Force Majure, (Weather and technical problems).

Dan will change it happily!

[PeeWee]

I'm planning my next trip to Russia.

On my last couple of trips, I've had some very close calls due to Aeroflot.  Like many things in Russia, Aeroflot is unpredicatable.  You never know if your flight will take off on time or at all.  Unfortunately, Aeroflot is the only way to get to where I'm going from SVO.

I usually get to Moscow and back from the USA on Lufthansa.

My question is this: on my return trip, if Aeroflot is late arriving in Moscow and I subsequently miss my flight on Lufthansa, does either carrier have any liability to get me home or on another flight?

And is the answer any different if you book all the tickets at the same time on the same itinerary?  Does either carrier's liability increase if they are all on the same itinerary?

Twelve plus years working in the airline industry gives to you this answer. Yes they do have a responsibility to get you onto another flight. The answer is the same regardless how you book  your itnerary.

Here is what happened to my friend as she was on her way to meet me in Jamacia. Her Aeroflot flight from Moscow was late arriving in London causing her to miss her Air Jamacia flight to Montego Bay. Aeroflot first booked her on the next flight out of London on Air Jamacia, gave to her a temp UK visa, booked her into a hotel in downtown London, paid for her cab both ways, and gave to her meal voucher for a dinner and a breakfast.

Although she was one day late arriving for out meeting she did have a chance to experience Jolly Ole Londontown for a day, and for free. She was upset but I told her that she should not be because she did get to experience a taste of London at Aeroflot's expense. It seemed like a good deal to me.

Peewee

[FunIndieBloke]

I had this same problem when I missed a Ukraine International Flight from Kiev to London.  I had to buy a new ticket.  Most western carriers would have put me on the next available flight, but it seems that UIA (and from what I'm reading, Aeroflot) don't rebook you, unless you paid a higher fare class.

[mervin]

Why even worry about liability? Purchase good travel insurance before you leave and you won't have to worry about whether or not the airline will look out for you. Anyone who travels shouldn't leave home without it.