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Author Topic: Workplace abuse  (Read 6769 times)

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Offline rotor

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Workplace abuse
« on: April 23, 2005, 04:28:15 AM »
Unpleasant topic, but I would appreciate some advice from people in the know. I have read that sexual harassment may be rife in the Russian workplace - the situation is this...

 My girl relocated to another city to start work as a book keeper at a warehouse/product distribution business. The owner/chief of the business promptly made advances for a casual sexual relationship which were rejected. Curiously, there was recently discovered some stock not invoiced, she was tagged for the error and instructed to pay for the shortfall. Equivelant to about 3 months wages. An alternate "method" of payment was quickly suggested by the chief... again rejected, of course. The pressure has built to a point that is impossible to tolerate on a daily basis. The emails have slowed from twice a day to once every ten days, which is very uncharacteristic.  Though she won't write of it, I suspect there isn't much money left for such things. Her present housing is provided by the company, chief's additional leverage - limited options. Certainly I cannot dispute the allocation of blame for any accounting error, but is there some sort of legal or third party assistance available for this type of harassment?

 This is a girl with whom I have been corresponding with for many months, have not visited, and have not verified details. As terrible as it is to bring to mind, the cynic in me has not ruled out the possibility of a red flag against my girl, but the providing of some internal legal assistance or contact information could bear this out anyways. Nothing about this feels right, but I would like to know either way. Any suggestions of how to deal with this tactfully, or conclusively validate the claims are very much appreciated.

 

rotor


Offline Turboguy

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2005, 04:59:18 AM »
I have become quite good friends with a Ukranian gal who I wrote for a year way back.  She ended up marrying someone else, moved here.   He was abusive and they split up and I have tried to help her out with some things.   I know her pretty well.   Actually she lived with me for a month or so.

She has told me that what you are describing is very common there.   The bosses in many cases just consider sexual favors as a part of the job.   If the gal wants the job she does the favors.  If not there are a lot of others that will.

I don't have any good answers.  Visit her is the only suggestion I have.  If you do that you will have a much better idea of who she is and what she is really facing and if you really hit it off you can step in and try to help without feeling you are ripped off.  The only other option would be if anyone here has a gal in the same city she might or might not be able to check things out for you.

Offline Elen

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2005, 05:17:26 AM »
Can't say for sure was it really happened to your girl but it's very common:? thing here (espesially in retails ) And it's very hard to "prove" anything and to do something in legal way. :?

There is no other escape but leaving such job and find a new one (even if she would have to return to her home city:?)
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 05:21:00 AM by Elen »

Offline rotor

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2005, 01:36:06 PM »
Thanks for the input. Returning to her mother and home city is exactly the plan, except that she's not earning enough to make the fare home. She is not the kinda girl to be 'street savvy', and this is the first time she has been away from home without a support structure of any kind. Fairly stressful as you can imagine. Not really interested in proving anything for legal recourse, simply want to get her out of there, an authoritative third party to break any work agreements - not that there is likely to be such a thing... The problem is for her to avoid paying the money being demanded. Can a girl be held to this? I have to talk to her some more about it. If I made a mistake like this, I would simply be dismissed from my job. Otherwise it's going to come down to a request from me for money, and I'd rather not have to deal with that trust issue if it's not necessary. Visit her? Of course I agree that's the best solution, but that cannot happen before this needs to be resolved. Perhaps she just needs to arrange a train fare home and bail from her job.

 What worries me is that the truth is usually a lot simpler than these types of scenarios. Am I being paranoid?

 

 

Offline Elen

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2005, 01:46:14 PM »
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The problem is for her to avoid paying the money being demanded. Can a girl be held to this?

The problem may be with her documents (like labour book - trudovaya knishka) a special document which is hold at your current job and which you should get back  when you change your jobs:? If she worked "official" there (I mean with that labour document) then they may refuse to retur it to her until she will pay all money.

But if she has enough "courage" to fight back she may threaten her boss with invistigation in a court. It helps sometimes if boss has no real prove of her "crime". But mostly girl do pay:?

 

Offline Jack

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2005, 07:19:24 AM »
This is one of the uglier sides of the business world in both Ukraine and Russia. It does not happen sometime, it happens a LOT!

 

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2005, 10:45:28 AM »
I think it is why women may choose more independent jobs where they are not stuck in a small office with a perverted boss.

There seem to be a lot of female doctors in Eastern Europe and maybe because the job allows them the freedom to work independently of sleazy male bosses.

I have seen many young women working in hotels at the front desk or as bartenders maybe these are safer jobs to have.

Offline TigerPaws

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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2005, 10:33:59 AM »
 I am sorry to say that Jack is right, while I have not been to the Ukraine for several years I can say that this is business as usual in Russia today. Offices, retail shops, you name it if a woman wants to keep her job sexual favors are all too often required.

Offline rotor

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2005, 04:35:26 AM »
Thanks for all the comments. Elen, the labour book is not involved in this case - the job was meant to be short term only. My girl does not appear to be the type of personality to challenge the swine in the way you suggested, would rather honor the debt. I don't understand this unless she feels genuinely responsible, in which case I would understand. She is very uncomfortable and stressed at work, not her usual happy self in her letters, but has refused the idea of financial assistance - better saved for our future I'm told. So it looks like a few months of working off debt :( for my girl. I'm really worried for her physical safety and emotional constitution. She is quite young at heart. Can only hope something positive transpires before that time... Looks like I won't be traveling any time soon. Frustrating all round.

Offline Elen

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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2005, 07:07:09 AM »
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. Elen, the labour book is not involved in this case the job was meant to be short term only

If she has her labour book in her hands then let her boss go to hell with his debt. Let he try to prove in our court she was guilty:P I would want to see that.

I see no reasone to stay at this job and pay the debt. What does she tell her boss would do to her if she just would not come to job any more?

Offline Maxx

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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2005, 05:46:09 PM »
Quote from: rotor
 What worries me is that the truth is usually a lot simpler than these types of scenarios. Am I being paranoid?

 

 

You maybe saying you hold out the possibility out that she may be scamming you. That is she is setting you up to become the white knight riding to her rescue by wiring her the money to get her off the hook and not be pressured by her leacherous boss. So the payoff is the equivalent of three months of her wages. Has she discussed how much that is? $1000 - $2000 ?

I had some "emergencies" with my ex-Russian wife. $700 for emergency medical and $3800 for her mother because she sold her house and was short 100,000 rubles (about $3800) to buy the next one. All lies.

What she is saying maybe true or not. It sure puts you under the pressure to send money. One thing that maybe an indicator that the truth is being told is she is only writing you every 10 days. Not a very good idea to give you so much time to cool off or maybe enough time to panic you?

Maxx

 

 

 

Offline rotor

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2005, 03:34:03 AM »
Elen, yes, this has been exactly my advice. I am waiting to see the response.:P:Pindeed. Maxx, Spot on dude. All this has ocurred to me. ;)  I like to keep an open mind and perspective on things. Does black leather and a rattly camchain fit the knight profile? :D The responses are certainly not conclusive either way, but interesting nonetheless. A little devil's advocate can go a long way... What were those golden rules again?....

Offline Maxx

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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2005, 04:04:52 AM »
Rotor

I was a white knight but wore mostly black while in the FSU :D

Yes it seems a tad suspisious that your lady that you have not met needs rescuing with probably about the same amount of money of a typical visa/ticket scam. 

I remember having your feelings a few years ago when I sent the money....

However the FSU is a rough and tumble place and what she described could very well happen. You just can't exactly be sure what is going on.

Maxx

 

Offline rotor

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Workplace abuse
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2005, 04:42:20 AM »
Al I can say is that I am well armed with this forum, the perspectives and opportunity to learn from the misfortunes of others - I really appreciate it.:):)

Offline OhioGuyRob

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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2005, 04:00:32 AM »
3 months wages for a ukrainian woman is not going to be anywhere near those amounts.  Especially if she is a temp hire.  3 months wages for a girl just staring out in the job market is probably not much more than $275-350. The average monthy income in Ukraine is less than $100 a month.  Its higher than that in the big cities like Kiev but your girl aint making 1000 a month!

Offline rotor

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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2005, 05:11:29 AM »
Just to clarify..... Those amounts were lofted by Maxx from past experience, and supposed as the general target amount of the typical scammer. I never eluded to concrete figures - I have kept my discussion very much generalized so as not to distract from the key issue - more about verifying details and likelihood of situations rather than dollar amounts. :) I would not have believed this situation could occur if I had not read so many accounts (from various sources) of it's prevalence in Russia.

 FWIW she previously earned about $150 per month, refuses to tell me the debt amount, and also refuses financial assistance. She also insists on honoring the debt, as she fears legal repercussions if not, regardless of the dodgy working arrangements. I guess I can only wait it out. She has given the passport number and address of her mother, but that doesn't really help me to validate anything.:? 

Offline jb

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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2005, 06:06:11 AM »
Rotor,

Since you had not posted a follow up in over a week I thought the problem had sorted itself out.

However, a thought crosses my mind...  This is a woman you have not met, merely corresponded with for several months, so she is only a "pen friend" at this point.  You said her email frequency had dropped off to once per 10 days.  Regardless of her excuse, this is itself a huge red flag, IMHO.  If she's been writing twice a day, I surmise she had internet access at the office, just because the boss was hitting on her doesn't take away her internet.  I smell a rat.

In either case, do you really want to embroil yourself with such a dramma queen?  There are plenty of nice women out there searching for hearth and home who won't bring this kind of baggage to the relationship.  Of course, the other possibility is that she had hoped you'd pay a visit sooner rather than drag this correspondance on for months.  You may have just missed the boat for lack of attention.  

Personally, I'd move on to another woman who can give her undivided attention to the developing romance.  While I'd like to be wrong, I think you are just spinning your wheels here.

Offline BC

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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2005, 09:46:10 AM »
-not an 'official' working arrangement.
-working long away from home.
-some kind of debt involved with employer.
-walking away not a solution.

Sounds a bit like the job may be 'shadier' than described. Debts usually harder to walk away from.  Maybe a good girl that had to make some tough decisions.  Don't want to say it is this way, but as jb describes anything is possible at this point.

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2005, 09:58:04 AM »
I personally think there are a lot of possibilities.   One is that she is for real  That being the case she has some good qualities and is a very responsible gal and good wife material.  

Option two is there is some kind of scam going on and she just has not gotten there yet.  She hasn't asked for money and I sure would not send her any without meeting her first if it were me.   Personally I don't think that is the scenerio.

Option three is that there is entirely something else going on and she is trying to buy some time.   A, she has a guy on the hook that she really feels good about and is trying to string you along.   B.  She has a boyfriend there and does not know how to get rid of him but may not be happy.   C. Any of a dozen scenerios that may be far different than what she is telling you.

If I were the one making the decisions I would stay in touch and if she gets to the point where she can meet you, go meet her unless you are already involved.   I sure wouldn't sit on my hands waiting though.   One of the theories about life on other planets goes like If only one in a million stars has plantets and only one in a million planets has life then there would be a couple hundred thousand planets with life.   Well the same thing can be said for Russian women.   There are a thousand agencies out there with a thousand women in each and thousands more that are not in an agency.   There is another woman out there for you if this gal does not work out.   You like her, stay with her but explore your options.

 

Offline rotor

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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2005, 02:27:51 PM »
jb, I can understand how you might interpet things, however, I shall make it clear that I have put off my travel to her twice thus far at her request for various justifiable (or suspiciously not) reasons - so that's not a failure on my part, and it won't happen a third time.  Regular internet access was at her previous city, before and after work at the internet cafe, when she wasn't working up to 12 hours a day and committing all her available funds to debt. My wheels might be spinning, but I am also travelling forwards at the same time. :cool: Guys, there are so many possibilities to this deal that you could go crazy thinking about it - but I'm not going to. The unclear issue has been resolved in my mind. Thanks for the input, all of it is helpful. Turboguy, I subscribe to your sentiments, and I am certainly staying in touch, however, my alternate options are still very much available to me and being explored.

Offline jb

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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2005, 03:52:33 PM »
'Sup to you man, but I'd have dropped her like a hot rock a long time ago.  I think most right thinking men would have done the same.  After all, who needs the grief?

Offline GregfromGa

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« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2005, 01:17:52 AM »
What city does she work in?   What city does she live. There are wasy of finding out about this I would think,but it would cost you.  So are you planning a trip?

Offline anono

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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2005, 01:30:38 AM »
why does this lady feel compelled to pay a debt she did not incur?  maybe i missed something.

Offline BC

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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2005, 01:34:07 AM »
Well rotor hasn't posted in a couple of weeks so maybe he figured it out..

Offline chuckinwdc

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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2005, 07:49:16 AM »
Quote from: rotor
I shall make it clear that I have put off my travel to her twice thus far at her request for various justifiable (or suspiciously not) reasons - so that's not a failure on my part, and it won't happen a third time. 

I don't understand why she is discouraging you from traveling to meet her. Most women would prefer a man that they are interested in to come visit them as soon as possible.

"Keyboard Romeos" are, unfortunately, quite common and the FSU women know this. Generally speaking, they are not interested in a prolonged correspondence that doesn't include some face-to-face meetings.

Rotor, I'm not suggesting that she's a scammer -- she refuses to accept any money, for example -- but I do find it very odd that she has twice discouraged you from coming for a visit. Why? Has she given you a good reason?

Her lack of enthusiasm for a f2f makes me think that she's not really committed to the idea of marriage to a Western man.

Chuck in D.C.

 

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