The Age "Old" Debate.

[I/O]

Few subjects relating to this pursuit spark the same level of passion as the "Age" debate.  I've observed quite a variety of views over time and of course I have my own but to date, I haven't seen much real discussion which is balanced and useful to either the freshmen or those in this right up to their ears.

For the purpose of this thread, (if it is of interest to anyone) I am hoping to avoid the extreme age gap debate (Much beyond 25 years) but rather focus on ways and means to extract the best for both partners of being in an age gap relationship.  There is several married guys here who have something of an age gap in their marriage and a few people who are well advanced in their relationship, but not yet married who also have an age gap situation. 

KenC and JB both have something of an age gap (As I understand it) and appear to have managed it rather well.  Gator and myself (Two of the non married) also each have an age gap relationship which is somewhat advanced.  I noted a remark from Gator a few days back that he is in a plus 20 year age gap relationship.  I tend to think when one is 60 and the other is 40 it is far less significant than those who are in the 40yo/20yo relationship. 

I would generally disuade anyone who is 40 plus from seeking a sub 25 y/o, but for whatever reason it has happened and in some cases it has worked.  What I'd like to dig out of those with greater experience is how they view the most benificial attributes they brought to the relationship with their lady so that a few of us might be able to pick up on a few clues to hopefully help us succeed long term. 

I have a number of ideas, but they are just that, ideas which in fact equate to theories and as yet are largely untested.  I think those who go specifically looking for large age gaps are doomed from the outset for a whole host of other reasons, but if it is possible, perhaps some intelligent and informative discussion on this subject might be useful to all involved.

Any comments/thoughts?

I/O

[Patrick]

OK , I'll bite on this one. On any given day during the year there are 23 years difference in our ages. We met she was 30 and I was 53. That may sound like many years and in some ways it is. The fact is I want to say that if she had been 35, 40 or even 50 it would have made no difference to me. Age had nothing to do with it as far I cared. She was to me the total package that I could be happy with. I went back to visit 3 times before bringing her to the US just to make sure. We had 3 good visits and one where everything went wrong and still we, or I should say "I "was sure that she was who I wanted to spend my life with. When I say she is the total package, I mean just that. She had and still has it all. Are we perfect? No , not by a long shot, however she loves me and allows me to love her . We have been together for 3 years now. Married for going on 2 years and it gets better everyday. We have a 15 year old son and an 6 year old babygirl that I have always been daddy to. Never Patrick, never Rick, I have always been daddy and that alone is great. Like I said, she was and is, the total package. She has just returned from a 8 week trip to Ukraina to get her mom. Everyday she was gone my soul hurt. I served in the Army in many places. Those 8 weeks with out her and our babygirl were the longest of my life and that is including a few long tours in far away places with strange sounding names.
   The men and women here that have bad things to say about age, well they are talking to a brick wall that could care less what they have to say.
  Thats my buffalo's worth.

[Elen]

  I tend to think when one is 60 and the other is 40 it is far less significant than those who are in the 40yo/20yo relationship. 

Majority women tend to think opposite You would find much less 40y o women who would be ready to marry 60 y.o men than 20 who are ready to marry 40

[BradSTL]

Majority women tend to think opposite You would find much less 40y o women who would be ready to marry 60 y.o men than 20 who are ready to marry 40

Interesting Elen.

I am curious about your view (as a woman), is it true that people, or women, (in general) change dramatically (regarding opinions, goals, even dreams) between the ages of 20 and 30?

[Elen]

Interesting Elen.

I am curious about your view (as a woman), is it true that people, or women, (in general) change dramatically (regarding opinions, goals, even dreams) between the ages of 20 and 30?

 It is true that males change "dramatically" between 40 and 60 which makes women to have another views on ages difference for that age group of "fiances" 
 They ( males) just become more close to those who would need pampers ( soon) but not those who would be glad ( and able) to  pamper women ( like it 's in many cases with 20/40 couples)

[I/O]

Gawwwwwwwwd I should have known better than to post this, but anyway, we are into it already.

Elen: With regards to less women in the 40y/o group being prepared to marry someone 20 years older than a woman in her 20s marrying someone 20 years older, frankly I wouldn't have a clue and I wouldn't be surprised if you are right, but all that is simply speculation until we see some hard numbers.  Whats more, it is not particularly relevant here.

My point was that I see less problems/difficulties when both partners are at a more mature age, IE 40-60 and a 20 year age gap and it doesn't so often SEEM to precipitate into "Goal based disputes" within the marriage.  For one example, new children are usually off the agenda for both parties.

What I am trying (maybe naively) to angle at here is what various people bring to the table where there is an age gap that will or has actually helped to make it work. 

For my own example, I am fairly comfortable in my own skin and although my fiance' is somewhat younger (17 years in fact for 49 1/2 weeks of the year) I am not the type who questions everywhere she goes, who she speaks to and what she does. I take the view that she has my trust which she has earned and if the point ever came where she betrayed that trust, she would be out the door so fast she wouldn't know which way was north.  Before that time I have no reason to consider issues of jealousy etc.

I think it is only logical that a woman in her 20s may have some other goals or means of entertainment etc than a man in his 40s.  Some men manage this very well and some don't.  Maybe we can glean something from those who do manage it well.  Hope springs eternal.

I/O

[jb]

FWIW I/O, jb and his wife do not have a 20 age gap.  Although since Etna refuses to turn 50, the age gap grows.   

[I/O]

FWIW I/O, jb and his wife do not have a 20 age gap.  Although since Etna refuses to turn 50, the age gap grows.   

Kinda sounds like a mate of mine.  He is having a 50th celebration later this month.  I think that is the third one he has had.   BTW, yes I knew there was not a great age gap between you two, correct me please, I thought I gleaned somewhere there was about 14 years?  Not correct?

I/O

[Elen]

Elen: With regards to less women in the 40y/o group being prepared to marry someone 20 years older than a woman in her 20s marrying someone 20 years older, frankly I wouldn't have a clue and I wouldn't be surprised if you are right, but all that is simply speculation until we see some hard numbers.  Whats more, it is not particularly relevant here.

 Call it like speculation if  you wish but I wonder if you really have not a clue that it's so and still need some numbers to believe in that.  

My point was that I see less problems/difficulties when both partners are at a more mature age, IE 40-60 and a 20 year age gap and it doesn't so often SEEM to precipitate into "Goal based disputes" within the marriage.  For one example, new children are usually off the agenda for both parties.

 You see there IS a point in people's ages after which maturity(зрелость)  ( which you are speaking about) turns already in "old age" (старость) And if there ARE such 20 y.o girls who would see that maturity like an advantage of 40 years old vs 20 y. o boys then such "trick" does not works already in a case with 40 y.o women and 60 y. OLD men. Also there are less 40 y.o. women who would seek for daddy-daughter kind of relationship like it is in 20/40 case(to my mind if woman is still seaking for such model of "family" then it's already "clinic case") And there are much more women among 40s who are not seeking for "provider" because they already built their own career.  Also if you need some "numbers" about sexual activity of 60 vs 40 then look for those numbers by yourself
 All wrote above could give you a clue ( I hope) why 40 y o women don't seak for relationship with big age difference ( in a direction of much older male)  and why there are such many anecdotes about old husbands whose young wives cuckold them  

[I/O]

Elen:  All your pontifications, as I said up thread, may well be right and frankly are not interesting for the purpose of this thread.  The point you are missing here is the question for those who ARE IN an age gap relationship. 

I have my views, like you do on who likes what and who is suitable for who.  But for the purpose of this thread, the point of interest is, or at least was, what do those who have experience in this area actually bring to the table which help to avoid some of the obvious pitfalls.

As for the validity of age gap relationship, or who would accept them for themselves, that is a whole nother discussion.

I/O

Apologies for the half post and then completion.  Something went horribly wrong in the process.  Probably that backward thing mentioned in another thread.

[jb]

From July through October it's 14 years, from October till July it's 15 years.  Considering what we've seen from people like T/G, I don't consider our age gap really significant.  We don't notice it at all.   Both of us suffer the same aches and pains of growing older, we don't dance as fast as we used to, and neither of us ever could do the 4 minute mile.  However, neither of us have careers which are physically demanding, (she's a college teacher and I'm a consultant), and our brains still seem to function on par with where we were 20 years ago.

After a woman has approached her 50th year a few times, (Lady Clairol still works it's magic), and her husband contines to age somewhat gracefully, you tend to lose track of any differences in age.

[SANDRO43]

Perhaps age difference should be viewed in terms of percentages rather than absolute numbers .

A 40 y.o. man with a 20 y.o. girl has a  50%-younger mate, but that will become 33% when they are 60 and 40,  25% when 80 and 60, 20% when 100 and 80, etc. etc.

Which proves that a 20-year gap will EVENTUALLY become immaterial .

[Elen]

Elen:  All your pontifications, as I said up thread, may well be right and frankly are not interesting for the purpose of this thread.  The point you are missing here is the question for those who ARE IN an age gap relationship. 

Well try to formulate your question  more clear for such dunderheard like me

If what you call like a question was your  statement that 40/60 couple had less "troubles" than 20/40 then it's wrong ( from my view point)


Ps Try to find 40/60 couple here to begin with 

[I/O]

Well try to formulate your question  more clear for such dunderheard like me

Elen:  Sorry I can't write it any more simply than I did.  If I could write "Fluently" in another language, I would.

Whether or not someone SEEKS a certain relationship is and was beside the point from the opening post.  The point is for those that ARE ACTUALLY in such a relationship.  What have they got that makes it work?  BTW, there is at least one here that is in the 60/40 relationship thing.  

Which proves that a 20-year gap will EVENTUALLY become immaterial

Sandro: Yes...IF they stay together long enough to get to that stage.

Oh well...it was worth a try.......................maybe

I/O Who probably needs to give himself a good dose of ....

[Elen]

Elen:  Sorry I can't write it any more simply than I did.  If I could write "Fluently" in another language, I would.

Hardly you ever could to write it in Russian Just next time don't write statements in English which you have not a wish to be referred to by others people



PS Also what I tried to say pointing at difference of views of women in 20 vs 40 ( which was an answer to YOUR own statement) was that those "far from typical" women who were seeking for relationship with big age gasp in the beginning some years later ( after marry to such 'young in heart " boy)  appear in  relationship which even much less women were seeking in those her "new" ages ( not OLD yet) - because of objective reason like just OLD already  ( but not just mature) ages of husband.
 If you are trying to get an answer how those who stay in such relationship  overcome THIS particular and objective reality of such marriages I would want to hear that too All others "tricks" I think would be just common for all couples regardless of age difference.

[Elen]

Sandro: Yes...IF they stay together long enough to get to that stage.

Why are such  doubts if you tend to think there are less problems with ages for  such couples ? 

[KenC]

Few subjects relating to this pursuit spark the same level of passion as the "Age" debate.  I've observed quite a variety of views over time and of course I have my own but to date, I haven't seen much real discussion which is balanced and useful to either the freshmen or those in this right up to their ears.

For the purpose of this thread, (if it is of interest to anyone) I am hoping to avoid the extreme age gap debate (Much beyond 25 years) but rather focus on ways and means to extract the best for both partners of being in an age gap relationship.  There is several married guys here who have something of an age gap in their marriage and a few people who are well advanced in their relationship, but not yet married who also have an age gap situation. 

KenC and JB both have something of an age gap (As I understand it) and appear to have managed it rather well.  Gator and myself (Two of the non married) also each have an age gap relationship which is somewhat advanced.  I noted a remark from Gator a few days back that he is in a plus 20 year age gap relationship.  I tend to think when one is 60 and the other is 40 it is far less significant than those who are in the 40yo/20yo relationship. 

I would generally disuade anyone who is 40 plus from seeking a sub 25 y/o, but for whatever reason it has happened and in some cases it has worked.  What I'd like to dig out of those with greater experience is how they view the most benificial attributes they brought to the relationship with their lady so that a few of us might be able to pick up on a few clues to hopefully help us succeed long term. 

I have a number of ideas, but they are just that, ideas which in fact equate to theories and as yet are largely untested.  I think those who go specifically looking for large age gaps are doomed from the outset for a whole host of other reasons, but if it is possible, perhaps some intelligent and informative discussion on this subject might be useful to all involved.

Any comments/thoughts?

I/O

I will agree that if one's intentions were to seek and find a woman significantly younger it would signify that he may have a problem.  But who is to say what age gap is OK and what is too much?  It is not so much the ages of the couple involved but their compatibility with each other that matters.  Their morals, character, general outlook on life and personalities are much more important than any chronological age.

I find it very ironic that as a young man I always dreamed of having a hot young beautiful wife with a perfect body and such, but as an older man now, I value many other traits more so than just the physical attributes of a woman.  The irony comes in when I now find myself married to a woman that I dreamed of as a young man, but I value the "other" traits I mentioned more than just my wife's beauty.  (Not to say I don't appreciate her beauty too)  I will say that the one thing I never thought of as a plus was my wife's youth.  I always looked at her young age as a negative in our relationship.  It would have been much easier to have fallen in love with a woman older than my wife, but you don't always get the choice of who you fall in love with.
KenC

[Elen]

  It is not so much the ages of the couple involved but their compatibility with each other that matters.  Their morals, character, general outlook on life and personalities are much more important than any chronological age.

Funny to hear that each time from males who did look for younger but not OLDER than they themselves women

I  It would have been much easier to have fallen in love with a woman older than my wife, but you don't always get the choice of who you fall in love with.
KenC

 Really?    Is it would be easy to fall in love with a women 20 years older than you 

[KenC]

Funny to hear that each time from males who did look for younger but not OLDER than they themselves women


 Really?    Is it would be easy to fall in love with a women 20 years older than you 

Elen,
Just FYI, I did date women my age and older before I met my wife.  Don't you think it is more natural for the man to be somewhat older than the woman?
KenC

[Bruno]

Don't you think it is more natural for the man to be somewhat older than the woman?

Why ?

By example, women live more long that men, the logic will be that women take younger men... this will reduce the risk to be alone at the end of her life !!!

[KenC]

Why ?

By example, women live more long that men, the logic will be that women take younger men... this will reduce the risk to be alone at the end of her life !!!

And just how many marriages can you point out that follow such logic?  Almost every single marriage I can think of, the man is older.  It seems the norm to me.
KenC

[Elen]

Elen,
Just FYI, I did date women my age and older before I met my wife.  Don't you think it is more natural for the man to be somewhat older than the woman?
KenC

 1. I doubt that you dated women with such big age difference ( like you have now or even close to that) - never mind how peferct "personality" those women would have. So no need to be "little hypocritical" here with  words about "Their morals, character, general outlook on life and personalities are much more important than any chronological age."

2. I think it;s more "natural"  for men  to be somewhat older than the women  only untill some particular ages. That's why I was disagree with statement that 40/60 couples had less problems than 20/40 ( I explained why I thought so) .

3. The idea that  "it;s more "natural" for men ( of ANY ages)to be somewhat older than the women( in ANY ages)  was providing by males who were ruling this world, estimating rules of game for centures But now things do change And you who live in not other place but America should notice that . And I'm sure you do notice Otherwise you - young in heart old boys - would not go such far abroad in your searching for "soulmate" ( wrppeted in young body of course  )

[Daveman]

Why ?

By example, women live more long that men, the logic will be that women take younger men... this will reduce the risk to be alone at the end of her life !!!

Your statement there seems logical, but you are speaking of physical years rather than emotional age. The "natural" part of a man being a little older stems from the accepted theory (or purported fact, depending on where the information is derived) that a woman matures mentally and emotionally somewhat earlier than a man.  So, for the sake of the discussion, a man at 25 has the same emotional/mental age as a woman of 18-20, approximately.  So, it is natural for two people who marry to be at the same emotional level, therefore it is natural for the man to be older for that reason.

I know at 44, I have the mentality of someone about 12, so maybe in 40 years I'll be mentally mature, but, I'm not holding my breath (unless it's to get my way).

Dave

[Elen]

And just how many marriages can you point out that follow such logic?  Almost every single marriage I can think of, the man is older.  It seems the norm to me.
KenC

 Speaking about logic of marriages, you should also take into consideration that, when a woman archives those ages when older males are not such "natural" choice for her, marriage itself has not such a value for her like it was when she was in ages when it's was more "natural" to have older than she male. ( oops sorry I can't drop Russian habit to use long sentences)

[Elen]

Your statement there seems logical, but you are speaking of physical years rather than emotional age. The "natural" part of a man being a little older stems from the accepted theory (or purported fact, depending on where the information is derived) that a woman matures mentally and emotionally somewhat earlier than a man. 

Again that's true ONLY until males archived particular ages After that there could not be MORE mature but only "just mature" with slowly downing to senile dementia