Too many women...

[Totoro]

Hello everyone!
After about 1 month of being registered to Elenasmodels and Fiance.com I’ve been in contact with dozens of ladies of all kinds. Many just stopped replying after a couple mails, some I didn’t like... well, now there are only a few I’m still writing to. I think I need to make some order in my mind, so I may as well share my thoughts with you.

1 - E. from Perm, 28, contacted me on Fiance.
The only woman I’ve met so far who speaks Italian, that’s a huge advantage. She contacted me, but we soon switched to email, and we’re planning on talking on the phone next week. Cute without being a stunner, let’s say 7 out of 10 (I actualy only have a couple pics of her), sounds like an intelligent and brilliant woman, it’s nice to talk with her.

2 - N. from Lugansk (Ukraine), 28, I contacter her on Fiance.
I initiated contact, but she replied directly to my email, and now we meet almost daily on MSN. Fairly good looks (8 to 8.5), maybe a little lacking in personality? She sounds VERY realistic, almost boring... doesn’t like games of any sort, it’s very difficult to joke with her. Strikes me as a sad person. Nonetheless, we started discussing a possible visit of mine to Kiev (she said it’d be better than visiting in her home town). Pro-dater, maybe? Better check and be careful. In any case, gave me her address for postcard.

3 - K. from Hungary, 30, from Elenasmodels
What is an Hungarian woman doing on a Russian site? Well, she replied to my email, and we also met a few times on MSN. There are several red flags about her... first said she lived in Budapest, but a week later gave me her address, in a town 100 Km away! She actually “fell in love” with me in 2 days or so... what puzzles me is that she’s not a stunner, maybe a 6 in the looks department, and too tall (almost 6’2”) to be "palatable” to many people. Scammer? maybe... Pro-dater? Almost certainly. Still, if things go on, I may as well take a little vacation to Budapest (it’s near, doesn’t cost much), and have her company as an added bonus.

4 - I. from Chisinau (Moldova), 24, from Elenasmodels
I’ve been warned about her being a scammer. Very good looks (8.5 to 9), doesn’t talk much but would love to meet me. Says che can’t come to Italy, but will be happy to meet me in her town. So, not a scammer but 99% a pro-dater. Same consideration for hungarian K. apply here, Moldova is not far, I can stay a week there for about E.400 flight included. And spend that week with a real stunner! I’ll think seriously about that ^_^

5 - I. from Belarus, 32, from Elenasmodels
Very good vibes from her. Good looks (definitely a 7), good english, fun to talk with, enjoys jokes. Exchanged mobile numbers, for the moment we’re only being friends, but it seems we’re getting along well.

6 - I. from Saratov, 27, from Elenasmodels
Quite good looking (almost , tall as I like them. We’ve been talking in email and met a few times on ICQ. Looks like an honest and nice woman, pleasant to talk to. Not as close as previous I., but maybe it’s only a matter or time. Seems to enjoy talking to me as much as I enjoy talking with her. Opposite to all others, she’s well travelled. Has been to Italy twice already, and in several other places. Spent 3 days with her relatives in France, for Easter. Meeting shouldn’t be a problem, if we decide so. I confess I like her much! She sent me a picture taken in Pompei (20 minutes from where I live), just your regular vacation photo, and in it she somehow looks much better than on her profile pics!
Gave me her address for postcard.

7 - N. from Ukraine, 31, from Elenasmodels
Fun lady. She enjoys jokes, even if her english is far from being good, and seems interested in the fact that I’m quite different from other guys. She’s probably just curious, and looking only for friendship with me. Which is perfectly fine.  I’ll keep mailing her, let’s see what happens. She’s good looking too, 7+

8 - L. from someplace in UFA , 30, from Elenasmodels
Shy lady, sounds genuine and very afraid of choosing a wrong man, worried about what may happen to her if she goes abroad (directed her to this forum, maybe it helps ^_^). Bad english, but good looks  (about ^_^
Don’t know if we’ll go on writing, I can’t find many common interests or anything else. But I think she’s real, at least.

And that’s all, if we don’t count the 2 stunners who wrote to me on Fiance.com, the only ones that have supermodel looks (9+), a good deal more beautiful than all listed ladies. But, somehow, they can only write through the agency, and even if their written english is good enough they require a translator for phone calls. Maybe we have Boris and Yuri at the keyboard? ^_^

So far, only 3 women seem to emerge from the rest for a possible serious relationship: #1, #5 and #6. Could be good to plan a trip in summer to meet them, but they live so far away from one another...
In any case, I’ve had much more success than I anticipated. There’s nothing "special” so far, but there could be if things go on this way. Now the biggest problem is making up my mind, and selecting only 1 of them for closer relationship. But I like all of them, and no one in a particular way... did you face similar situations? How did you proceed, if I may ask?

[DKMM]

1st of all, you sound like you are approaching this in a reasonable manner.  Use your common sense here.

But now you find yourself in a situation I've been in before.  You have a bunch of ladies from all over the place and can't tell which one to pursue.  There is no right answer, other than the obvious go see them in person.  You are figuring out the reality that this is a difficult way to find someone.  Good luck!

[Jack]

Totoro, in my opinion it's really hard to have to many ladies to see.  And if I had to choose between having too few ladies to see or too many ladies to see, I would prefer to have too many ladies to see. Somehow you will always manage to see the ladies who interest you the most.

It looks to me like your main problem is that these ladies are scattered ALL over the FSU. 

When one has a situation such as yours, and it's going to be almost impossible to see all these ladies because they are scattered all over the place, I would make the following recommendation. Identify your top two (or three ladies if your trip in in excess of two weeks) you feel the best about and plan to go these two cities.  Now find agencies in these two cities, find other ladies who interest you in these two cities. If you can find 7 ladies who really interest you in any one city and you can meet, the chances of you finding a lady who you will like and enjoy spending time with are greatly increased.

[Kuna]

Toroto,

DKMM and Jack give good advice but there is no one way to do this...  The most important thing is to remember you're looking for one great girl.  Don't let the number of beautiful girls confuse you.

Once or twice in your "summaries" you mentioned the girls might just want to be friends.  They don't...  they will either want you as a partner or not.

After one month of writing it's probably time to think about how much of the "internet relationship" you've contributed to and how much they've contributed to.  Who is asking the wise and informed questions.  They're all within your acceptable "looks" range or you wouldn't be writing to them so...  forgetting about looks, who are you most comfortable with?  Who do you feel you would enjoy doing basic things with not fun exciting dating things.

Also...  just a thought... you've mentioned your weight before and without being awful you should ask if you've been giving an honest image by the photos you've been sending.  I mean.. are you sending your thin pics or are you sending realistic pics.

I ask this because I'm a big unit too and I know that some girls don't like big blokes and some actually prefer us.  When I was writing of course I sent flattering pics of myself but I also sent some pics that showed I was more like an Olympic shotputter than an Olympic swimmer.

Are you sharing realistic visions of your life or are you sharing the fun/happy/exciting stuff?

I'm asking these questions because I honestly think you've got to reduce the number of girls you're writing to down to one or two.  I did a WMVM and it's a tough journey and it also end with one or more girls being very hurt because you're visiting them and they WILL have feelings before you meet.  I didn't like that aspect of my trip.

So... in my mind I think it's wise if you keep refining your list by doing logical and pragmatic things until you find the girl that is a standout.  When you find her trust your judgement and go visit her.  If more than one stands out maybe you'll have to WMVF but my preference in hindsight would have been WMVO with an agency backup in case we didn't click.

All the best,

Kuna

[Totoro]

Thank you all for the kind advice.
I think it's time to get more serious now, after the first contact has been done.
I've been thinking about their feelings all this time... after all I know how I would feel if a woman I was interested in suddenly told me "sorry, I'm choosing another man". I know that feeling all too well, and surely don't want to hurt others! That's why I believe I have to act now, before any deeper feeling can get in motion.
I honestly don't care much about the scammers and pro-daters... if they want to play me, I have no problem in playing them ^_^ But the others, the honest women who are interested in me and maybe are thinking about a relationship, deserve all my respect and attention for their feelings.
I think I was always clear about my appearance and life situation. But of course I was also trying to present myself in the best possible way, so it's possible that something didn't come across as it should have. Guess tomorrow I'll re-read all sent emails, to see if everything is where it should be.
We'll see how the situations developes.

[TwoBitBandit]

I'm asking these questions because I honestly think you've got to reduce the number of girls you're writing to down to one or two.  I did a WMVM and it's a tough journey and it also end with one or more girls being very hurt because you're visiting them and they WILL have feelings before you meet.  I didn't like that aspect of my trip.

I don't think WMVM needs to equate with girls being "very hurt."

The thing to do is not build a big expectation before you meet them in person.

If you write some girl for eight months and you each pour out your soul to each other and speak on the phone all the time, then go meet her and then casually blow her off, she's probably going to be hurt.

If you write two or three casual letters and then go meet her after a month, she'll probably be disappointed if you blow her off, but it really won't be that big of a deal.

If you don't write her at all or write only a letter of introduction and then meet her and you blow her off, she may be disappointed but that night she'll be at a nightclub with her girlfriends flirting with other RM and the next day you won't even enter her mind.

Identify your top two (or three ladies if your trip in in excess of two weeks) you feel the best about and plan to go these two cities.  Now find agencies in these two cities, find other ladies who interest you in these two cities. If you can find 7 ladies who really interest you in any one city and you can meet, the chances of you finding a lady who you will like and enjoy spending time with are greatly increased.

This is very solid advice.

IMHO, you don't know jack (with a lowercase J) until you've met a girl in person, no matter how many letters you've exchanged.  There's some members on this board that will disagree with me on that, especially successful WOVO guys.  However, I've seen too much weird stuff in the FSU to make big bets on any one girl that I haven't met.  Even if the girl is sincere, there's a significant chance that you just won't have chemistry with her, or she won't like you, or you won't like her.

[Kuna]

I don't think WMVM needs to equate with girls being "very hurt."

The thing to do is not build a big expectation before you meet them in person.

If you write some girl for eight months and you each pour out your soul to each other and speak on the phone all the time, then go meet her and then casually blow her off, she's probably going to be hurt.

If you write two or three casual letters and then go meet her after a month, she'll probably be disappointed if you blow her off, but it really won't be that big of a deal.

If you don't write her at all or write only a letter of introduction and then meet her and you blow her off, she may be disappointed but that night she'll be at a nightclub with her girlfriends flirting with other RM and the next day you won't even enter her mind.

It doesn't need to equate to feelings getting hurt but it does.  Sorry...  If you've spent any amount of time writing to girls enough to get to know them (as you'd need to if you're going to make a choice on who to meet) they will develop feelings.  I only met two girls on my trip and I know both had developed feelings even though I kept saying in my letters that I considered them friends and could make no promises until after we meet.

Men can suppress their feelings.  Women find it much harder.  Remember they don't have many men that actually make the effort to visit.  When one does of course they have expectations.

I didn't write for 8 months.  I wrote for 2.  If you only write one or two casual letters how can you know the girls well enough to decide who you want to meet?

If you're just going to shoot off 40 letters and then go to visit the 10 that return responses after a few rounds why write letters at all?  Just go and do some powerdating at an agency

WMVM is a tough road emotionally and therefore I'm leaning in favour of WMVO IF the bloke has his head screwed on.

Maybe I was lucky because my favourite and I clicked...  maybe others delude themselves before travelling... I don't know.

IMHO, you don't know jack (with a lowercase J) until you've met a girl in person, no matter how many letters you've exchanged.  There's some members on this board that will disagree with me on that, especially successful WOVO guys.  However, I've seen too much weird stuff in the FSU to make big bets on any one girl that I haven't met.  Even if the girl is sincere, there's a significant chance that you just won't have chemistry with her, or she won't like you, or you won't like her.

Let's talk about "chemistry".

What is it and why does it fail to appear for some after Internet romances? 

I think I know the answer.  It's one when person paints an unrealistic picture of themselves and the other person fills in the gap with romantic gap-filler. 

If anyone is going to WMVO they'd better be certain they're being real in their correspondence and leave the girl in no doubt that there are positives and negatives.  If you're communicating with an intelligent girl she will ask you questions.  Answer them truthfully... Ask her questions and listen to her answers more than you listen to your "heart" or groin!

Chemistry doesn't happen when people have unrealistic expectations.  We can manage expectations if we want to.

[Jack]

Kuna as I have mentioned many times, as you have eluded to above, their is no one right or wrong way for this pursuit. As every man is different, the means and methods he feels most comfortable with is the best for him.  The entire process is a learning experience.

I have seen many, many men who started out by wovo to change his method to wmvm or wmvf  (write many visit a few).  I have never seen any man who started out with wmvm to change to wmvo until after he found the one.

Kuna one thing you will notice on these discussion boards is that guys often recommend the method in which they are using, or have used. It's only natural I think.

You somewhat recommend guys to write some but focus on one woman, visit one woman, because this is what you have done. You met one Russian lady and I guess have become engaged to your one and only Russian woman.  I hope you were successful. Only time will tell.

[mirror]

Kuna as I have mentioned many times, as you have eluded to above, their is no one right or wrong way for this pursuit. As every man is different, the means and methods he feels most comfortable with is the best for him.  The entire process is a learning experience.

I have seen many, many men who started out by wovo to change his method to wmvm or wmvf  (write many visit a few).  I have never seen any man who started out with wmvm to change to wmvo until after he found the one.

Kuna one thing you will notice on these discussion boards is that guys often recommend the method in which they are using, or have used. It's only natural I think.

You somewhat recommend guys to write some but focus on one woman, visit one woman, because this is what you have done. You met one Russian lady and I guess have become engaged to your one and only Russian woman.  I hope you were successful. Only time will tell.

Sorry,
May I ask only one question?

Totoro,

Are you going to say to your women about your multipurpose trip to Russia (or Ukraine)? Or do you want to keep secret?
I’d like to learn a little about men’s mentality.

Sofia

[Kuna]

Kuna as I have mentioned many times, as you have eluded to above, their is no one right or wrong way for this pursuit. As every man is different, the means and methods he feels most comfortable with is the best for him.  The entire process is a learning experience.

I have seen many, many men who started out by wovo to change his method to wmvm or wmvf  (write many visit a few).  I have never seen any man who started out with wmvm to change to wmvo until after he found the one.

Kuna one thing you will notice on these discussion boards is that guys often recommend the method in which they are using, or have used. It's only natural I think.

You somewhat recommend guys to write some but focus on one woman, visit one woman, because this is what you have done. You met one Russian lady and I guess have become engaged to your one and only Russian woman.  I hope you were successful. Only time will tell.

Actually Jack,  based on the advice I had from some members on this site I planned a WMVF trip...  I had 3 girls I wanted to meet but I arranged to meet my favourite first.  I'd heard that the chemistry sometimes wasn't there and I was serious about finding a girl that might become my wife one day.

I arrived in Kiev and the next day I met My Girl.  She was amazing.  Everything I expected and more.  We spent 4 wonderful days together and I didn't want her to leave but she had to go back to her city. I never knew if I would see her again but we both wanted to.

Then I met my #2 girl.  She was lovely too but I couldn't get my mind off My Girl.  I knew who I wanted and I think at the time I even commented that if it didn't work out with my #1 choice I didn't feel like I could pursue a relationship with Ms C because I would always wonder if there was another Ms D out there for me.

My Girl sent me an email and told me she wanted to return to Kiev for my last few days before I left.  I was thrilled.  I flew to her city and we had one night down there.  Just dinner and an early night because we had to be up early the next day for the train back to Kiev.

In hindsight I wish I had made a WMVO trip but I'm sure there are others that took the WMVO path and wished they'd VM.

I agree that there are many paths that can be taken but in hindsight I'm uncomfortable with WMVM. Yes, WMVO is higher risk but I'd still recommend it for those who find a girl they can communicate with and feel a GENUINE.  I reckon there's been many men dreaming about a fantasy and then when it doesn't materialise they blame the approach rather than themselves.  I think the next best alternative is some Power-dating in an agency or doing a tour like yours...  but I'm not a big fan of WMVM.

Kuna

[Lily]

Sorry,
May I ask only one question?

Totoro,

Are you going to say to your women about your multipurpose trip to Russia (or Ukraine)? Or do you want to keep secret?
I’d like to learn a little about men’s mentality.

Sofia

Sofia, I think this question is not about the very men's mentality, but rather about how well a particular man knows and understands the women's feelings..

[Kuna]

Sofia, I think this question is not about the very men's mentality, but rather about how well a particular man knows and understands the women's feelings..

 

[mirror]

Sofia, I think this question is not about the very men's mentality, but rather about how well a particular man knows and understands the women's feelings..

Lily,
Ok, many men discuss here about how to know and understand female feelings. 
What do you think it is important or not for woman to know about real purpose or not? (I hope it is about female feelings too).
For me for example I’d like to know I am not only one woman in his trip. I can accept his wish to visit many women, it is not a problem. But I think it is necessary to say about that from his side.

[Lily]

I would just assume that I am not the only woman after the man, without asking him.

[mirror]

I would just assume that I am not the only woman after the man, without asking him.

 
I am disappointed
sorry...

May be it is dream of all men to find a woman with similar position like you have.No questions, no wishes from female side-it is very comfortable for them.

[wiz]

I would just assume that I am not the only woman after the man, without asking him.

Don't women do the same?

They meet several men before they find the right one and they don't disclose in advance their meetings.

[Elen]

assuming ( and accepting ) that "I am not the only woman"  inevitably causes the same attitude towards males. Telling that it' not so would be some "lie" , situation  "а царица у окна села ждать его одна"  is too rare in internet dating  business (  because it's not "resonable" like males like to say   )

[Elen]

Don't women do the same?

They meet several men before they find the right one and they don't disclose in advance their meetings.

Yes It's just males have difficults with accepting ( really accepting)  such fact

[mirror]

assuming ( and accepting ) that "I am not the only woman"  inevitably causes the same attitude towards males. Telling that it' not so would be some "lie" , situation  "а царица у окна села ждать его одна"  is too rare in internet dating  business (  because it's not "resonable" like males like to say   )

When woman knows about honest competition between many women after a man it is different story.I think it is really a big mistake when man (woman) doesn't say anything about another options. Also I think it is a mistake when  man (woman) doesn't ask any questions about another partners. It must be clear for both.
My question was to say about another meetings. My question was not about that we can  have another partners. 
You must understand we don't argue.We compare our opinions.

[wiz]

Yes It's just males have difficults with accepting ( really accepting)  such fact

I don't think men think they are the only one's women communicate but at what stage these additional communications of both parties should it stop and they start concentrating in their relationship?

My view is after 2 months maximum they both have to severe any connections with other people and take all necessary measures to alley any suspicions to their partner that they are continue doing it!

By then the relationship should have develop very much and they must feel very close to each other.

[jb]

Women have a hard time understanding this.  For the most part it is simple economics.  It is hugely expensive to go to Russia or Ukraine for a date.  When you consider the odds of each person, man and woman, actually liking each other and hitting it off on a blind date it only makes sense to have another plan in your pocket.  Certainly if the situations were reversed and it was the Russian woman traveling great distances to date a man, surely she would be wise enough to have the names and phone numbers of more than one man in her purse before she left home.

During my single days I was known to refuse a second date with a beautiful woman just because I didn't like her table manners.  Chewing food with her mouth open was automatically the kiss of death, I knew I couldn't stand to look at that across the dinner table for a lifetime,,, no matter how pretty and sexy she might have been otherwise.  We all have those things we like and don't like, we never know about what it is until we meet face to face. 

That's why it make good sense to have a second, and perhaps third and forth option available when you go on blind dates so far from home. 

[Totoro]

Someone asked if, when visiting, I'm going to tell the women I want to visit more than one... well, for me the answer is yes.
Now I want to concentrate communications on the 3 women I like the most, and see if one stands out. And I plan to tell them the situation, just like it is. If I didn't, I would feel like I'm lying to them, although it seems obvious that they're not yet the "only one" (and I don't expect to be their only man). That's just how I am, and whoever "my" woman is, she must know and accept me as I am.
If none of them stands out by email/IM/SMS/phone, I guess I'll have to plan a round trip for this summer, meeting all of them. And of course they will know all of it. I know I would like to know it, if they came to Italy to visit me AND someone else ^_^
I do realize that a woman may not like it... but, if that's the case, she's certainly not the right woman. After all, in any case, there ARE other women in my life (my best friends are women, we're like brother and sisters), so an overly jealous and possessive woman just won't do.

[Bruce]

Totoro, listen hard and long to what Jack, JB and Twobitbandit posted above.  Yes, you may get lucky with a WOVO intention, even meeting a few others as alluded to above, but chances are this will not ultimately be successful for you.  The real game does not start until you show up.  If I were you I would assume your correspondence between your top two girls is real, after you do indeed narrow it down to your top two.  Then, meet them both in a two week trip.  Who cares where they are located with some exception ie. Moscow and Vladivostock is really too difficult a trip, but you are not planning that.  Tell one that you can only spare one week from work at this point and when you are showing up.  Tell the other you will be in her city the next week with the same story, or that you have to go to the other city for business to number one (number two you just show up like you never met # 1).  Find other girls in their city either prior to by writing or when you get there with a guide, local agency or on your own.  Use them as backups and or meet them during down time while you are dating your top two prior written girls.  Plan well, have a good time and enjoy your new company.  Then go back to whomever you really think has girlfriend potential in later months. 

[Elen]

I don't think men think they are the only one's women communicate but at what stage these additional communications of both parties should it stop and they start concentrating in their relationship?

Hard to answer Because in internet dating business dissapearing ( without trace) of fiance when a wedding dress was bought already is not such rare thing  And  who does know when next "fiance" would pay a visit, and ages (-"her" ages of course- wich DO matter for those fiances) don't improve "her" chances with each year passes  so... better to have few candidates in reserve just for any case till wedding certificate would be in hands 

[Daveman]

Hard to answer Because in internet dating business dissapearing ( without trace) of fiance when a wedding dress was bought already is not such rare thing  And  who does know when next "fiance" would pay a visit, and ages (-"her" ages of course- wich DO matter for those fiances) don't improve "her" chances with each year passes  so... better to have few candidates in reserve just for any case till wedding certificate would be in hands 

I certainly cannot argue with this logic.  It's a sad reality, but yes, disappearing is a common thing in this internet dating world.  I don't blame a woman for keeping her options open at all times, until that point where she's married, or at least has the visa in her hand if she's going to marry outside of Russia.  I would like to think that I'm trustworthy enough to give her comfort that I will not disappear on her, but, she has to look our for her own future.  Can't forget that.