Hello Mirror

[Makkin]

Hello Mirror,

  Talking about the differences in Russian women and Ukrainian women is of interest to me because I have been to both countries and met both national women. I have not noticed a difference but that is perhaps because I've not compared the two types of ladies that exist. I can compare with America or rather Texas versus New York and find differences but in relaity I cant find much difference except for the way the language is spoken here in USA.
  In America there is Texas and New York that we are seperated by many more miles than Russia and Ukraine but we are of the same country and same flag. We have a common bond to the flag and we are Americans. In Soviet times Russia and Ukraine both existed as states per say and were of the same material it seems? Of course Russia was the flag ship for the Soviet Union but Ukraine was the bread basket right? Kinda like Kansas and Iowa where they produce the corn and wheat? In many ways New York feels it is the flagship state for America and Texas is the oil basket..lol
  I want to ask you questions first in regards to feelings from Russia and Ukraine towards each other and how each country perceives itself in regards to the other? In Texas we feel we are different because we were a country before a state and we are the only state that can leave the United States legally because we made the USA sign a document that is good to this day. We leave when we feel like it....No other American state has this option. Of course with all our oil do you believe we would be allowed to leave? Do you think USA would tolerate such an action? I doubt it but in truth it can be done legally which is similar to Canadian situation with Quebec and the French feelings of independence.
  Mirror in starting out here could you please explain your feelings and thoughts about Ukraine as compared to Russia in areas of your interest? As I stated on the other thread...I trust your opinion and look forward to learning from you.

Thanks,

Makkin
 
 

[Mamma D]

This is a reply to a reader of RWL several years ago..... The advice still stands....GO... do not wait....you will never know what you have missed.


My daughter and grandson (both are from
Ekaterinburg...yek-ten-borg). And did my son ever find
a prize! They are wonderful....

Basil is a concert pianist....and studies with a
Russian teacher in Glendale, a suburb of Denver. He
has excelled in scholastics...Passed collage entrance
exams, in order to take a collage class in the summer.
He made an *A* and the instructor said... *man, can
that kid write* The final was three essay questions.
Set a all time record for books read in the middle
school (80 in english and Russian, including War and
Peace!).

Now Dick is a CPA/controller....always into sports...

He was married 26 years to the lady that mothered my
older grandchildren....one is a  Kick-ass Marine, all
5'2" if him (Iraq twice)and now a recruiter ...and Jennifer is a
intelligence officer in the AIR FORCE!

The fist thing he bought, was a new *Petrof* Piano..
Basil played nearly every one on Denver I think!
:)befor the settled on it. He got the longed for
electric piano for his birthday a year later. And with
it he can print his compositions with the computer.But
the real work is with the REAL piano.

Dick has no background in music...nor did he know
classical music...Irina and Basil have loved teaching
him....He has taught them about sports(Basil is unable
to catch a ball!) and they take a lot of short road
trips.   Each has enriched the other.

Irina was a nuclear physicist...also a degree in
violin and music...and her father is a noted
metallurgist, mom an engineer. Her brother teaches at
the music school and composes and plays Jazz professionally. Both
Dema and Basil compose Jazz.....

You (we) have things to share with them... and much to
learn from them.....

Basil has given up on teaching Dick to play the
piano...and I am *granny* because I cannot say
Babushka properly! But I always get a huge hug anyway
. He was ten when he arrived and will be 15 in a few
days...

Last year as we shared  our THANKS around the
Thanksgiving table... He said he was so thankful for a
dad and his American family. He IS OUR DARLING! and
headed for MIT!

Don't wait to long to visit....You will have lost all
these moments....and.... INS IS A mess, we nearly stressed
out before Irina and Basil arrived. And I think it
grows worse. But what a prize we got....

Ekarterinberg was a closed city during Soviet times
and there are still some cities that are still
closed..
 

Mamma D

April, 2007...........
P.S. Basil is now 17 and will head west to Stanford in the fall.   
He had Gold medaled twice at the recitals in Denver.  Studied and was part of a research team at Colorado School of mines last summer.

[mirror]

Makkin,

I don't know much about americans. May I ask you? And I'd like to ask you to tell me a little about a relationship between parients and children in USA, pls.

I'd like to compare americans and russian in this subject.

Thank you,

Sofia

[Makkin]

"The relationship with children and parents"?Sofia,

  Americans and children is a complicated yet simple thing to explain but as you might guess it's similar yet probably different.
  My daughter has been raised by an Australian mother and myself an American man so the culture blend is a bit different from what you may call the "American" errrmm..child-raising or cultural differences from your country and mine.
  I don't know much to compare but I can say my daughter was brought up with love as is the custom of most American parents. She was taught to read by myself before the age of four and she missed two spots from making the national spelling bee in our nations capital. Seems children who come out of the blocks fast are easier to teach so Im thinking in America the children who don't learn to read well is because of the factors involved with the parents.
  Geepers I don't know where to go with this..lol... "The relationship between children and parents"? That's a good question but could you please make it more specific?
  What do you think are the differences between Ukraine women and Russian women?

  I would say the parents are responsible for the child until the child reaches the legal age. The legal age to make a decision by a child in America is 17. This is when they may opt to stop going to public school. In England I believe it's sooner than that?
  The relationships vary here as religion plays a part in many things. This country is a majority Christian country and children and parents  attend church on a weekly basis. Activities such as sports and school functions take place regularly and specific interests such as nights to play cards or board games also take place.
  Do you have children?

  I really enjoyed watching the children in both Russia and Ukraine as they seemed happy to be with there family. I liked the way grandfathers payed so much care and attention in my eyes. It was a good thing to see. This is probably universal right?
 
  Well I'm not really sure what you were asking but I did my best for a short answer.

  Do you have any ideas on my question?

Thanks,

Makkin

[mirror]

"The relationship with children and parents"?Sofia,

  Americans and children is a complicated yet simple thing to explain but as you might guess it's similar yet probably different.
  My daughter has been raised by an Australian mother and myself an American man so the culture blend is a bit different from what you may call the "American" errrmm..child-raising or cultural differences from your country and mine.
  I don't know much to compare but I can say my daughter was brought up with love as is the custom of most American parents. She was taught to read by myself before the age of four and she missed two spots from making the national spelling bee in our nations capital. Seems children who come out of the blocks fast are easier to teach so Im thinking in America the children who don't learn to read well is because of the factors involved with the parents.
  Geepers I don't know where to go with this..lol... "The relationship between children and parents"? That's a good question but could you please make it more specific?
  What do you think are the differences between Ukraine women and Russian women?

  I would say the parents are responsible for the child until the child reaches the legal age. The legal age to make a decision by a child in America is 17. This is when they may opt to stop going to public school. In England I believe it's sooner than that?
  The relationships vary here as religion plays a part in many things. This country is a majority Christian country and children and parents  attend church on a weekly basis. Activities such as sports and school functions take place regularly and specific interests such as nights to play cards or board games also take place.
  Do you have children?

  I really enjoyed watching the children in both Russia and Ukraine as they seemed happy to be with there family. I liked the way grandfathers payed so much care and attention in my eyes. It was a good thing to see. This is probably universal right?
 
  Well I'm not really sure what you were asking but I did my best for a short answer.

  Do you have any ideas on my question?

Thanks,

Makkin

Makkin

Thank you for the answer. I am interested to know how parents bringing up children ( you told with great love, thank you), educate them ( including financial aspect too), and then what relationship they have in old age of parents.
Yes, I have a son 12 y.o. We live together-my mother, son, and me. I am very grateful to my mother because she helps me with bring up my son. I can do my business; I can travel without any problems. Many families live similar way in Russia- parents help children and then children, of course, care about old parents.
About Russian and Ukr women.
Really I don’t see a big difference between them. Maybe I don’t know because I never lived in Ukr.
I have one Ukrainian girl who works in my office like an administrator. I can not say anything wrong about her nationality. She is married Tatar boy. She knows few Tatar words and they love each other.
I’d like to say only I trust more Ukrainian who lives in Russia.
Maybe some Ukrainian people in Russia prefer a Ukrainian community (maybe) but they can exist here without any problem from Russian side.
I don’t know Ukrainian life style and about Ukrainian values.
I think Ukrainian is beautiful and dressed nicely because they live a little closer to the West than we who lives in the centre of Russia. And of course Russian provincial people is more conservative and more careful and more closed to Western people because we can see western people rarely here.
For me for example the internet is the best way to know West. Many Russian girls ( I don’t mean Moscow and St-Pet) have not internet because it is not cheap. It means they can not know anything about WM. Maybe some girls can have maximum 1 hour in internet a day and of course it is not enough time to know West.
Our students are very mobile and dynamic and every year more and more our students can go to the West for learning English by student visa. It is the most progressive part of youth.
More older single women are sitting home and are waiting White Knight. 
I had many girls friends -english teachers and they showed me what it is international datings.The most of them is living in West now.
It is my view.

Thank you.
   

[Makkin]

Thanks Sofia,

  Wow...I get the idea that many things can be learned by people from east and west as it seems there are many differences and the small things seem to be the key in my mind.

  Family here in Texas and the southern part of the USA is a bit different from other regions of the USA as each region has it's norms and differences. We are very close to family in the south and there is nothing most of us wont do for a loved one. In Ukraine I stared at a grandfather who had his grandchild by the hand,,,they were playing and laughing and it was hard to tell who was the child...This is what I consider very healthy and I watched them as long as I could without seeming intrusive. Your child needs this type of positive male influence I'm thinking because at hus age he needs to learn from the same sex parent or one who acts in that capacity. Studies show that the child learns and copies the same sex in order to learn his or her role in sexual identity.
  I worked with a Ukrainian girl here in Texas and she was 20-21 years old. I talked with her all the time...I noticed her age in mental maturity was far paced ahead of girls her age that I have met in USA. This is why I ask these questions....What would cause a rapidity of maturity but in such a balanced and normal way? In other words why is this 20 year old more mature than a 35 year old? It's not because she was plain....She was very very beautiful.

  Well I'm off to bed and get some sleep....Maybe you can help explain some more things about this subject?

Makkin
 

[Makkin]

Hello Mama,

  You have a wonderful family and you must be very proud of the accomplishments they have made. You are very nice to write about your family and it's a great story.
  Maybe one day I will be married to that special woman and enjoy the life that seems to make you happy but you never really realize it because it flows in it's natural state. A man once told me that being married is the happiest time of your life but as it takes place you don't realize it but when it gone you do. Very wise man indeed.

Makkin

[mirror]

This is a reply to a reader of RWL several years ago..... The advice still stands....GO... do not wait....you will never know what you have missed.


My daughter and grandson (both are from
Ekaterinburg...yek-ten-borg). And did my son ever find
a prize! They are wonderful....

Basil is a concert pianist....and studies with a
Russian teacher in Glendale, a suburb of Denver. He
has excelled in scholastics...Passed collage entrance
exams, in order to take a collage class in the summer.
He made an *A* and the instructor said... *man, can
that kid write* The final was three essay questions.
Set a all time record for books read in the middle
school (80 in english and Russian, including War and
Peace!).

Now Dick is a CPA/controller....always into sports...

He was married 26 years to the lady that mothered my
older grandchildren....one is a  Kick-ass Marine, all
5'2" if him (Iraq twice)and now a recruiter ...and Jennifer is a
intelligence officer in the AIR FORCE!

The fist thing he bought, was a new *Petrof* Piano..
Basil played nearly every one on Denver I think!
:)befor the settled on it. He got the longed for
electric piano for his birthday a year later. And with
it he can print his compositions with the computer.But
the real work is with the REAL piano.

Dick has no background in music...nor did he know
classical music...Irina and Basil have loved teaching
him....He has taught them about sports(Basil is unable
to catch a ball!) and they take a lot of short road
trips.   Each has enriched the other.

Irina was a nuclear physicist...also a degree in
violin and music...and her father is a noted
metallurgist, mom an engineer. Her brother teaches at
the music school and composes and plays Jazz professionally. Both
Dema and Basil compose Jazz.....

You (we) have things to share with them... and much to
learn from them.....

Basil has given up on teaching Dick to play the
piano...and I am *granny* because I cannot say
Babushka properly! But I always get a huge hug anyway
. He was ten when he arrived and will be 15 in a few
days...

Last year as we shared  our THANKS around the
Thanksgiving table... He said he was so thankful for a
dad and his American family. He IS OUR DARLING! and
headed for MIT!

Don't wait to long to visit....You will have lost all
these moments....and.... INS IS A mess, we nearly stressed
out before Irina and Basil arrived. And I think it
grows worse. But what a prize we got....

Ekarterinberg was a closed city during Soviet times
and there are still some cities that are still
closed..
 

Mamma D

April, 2007...........
P.S. Basil is now 17 and will head west to Stanford in the fall.   
He had Gold medaled twice at the recitals in Denver.  Studied and was part of a research team at Colorado School of mines last summer.

Hello, Mamma D

I read your message many times You look like a happy couple and you write very nice post about your family.
I think you made this big and good job. And I'd like to hear your opinion here too. Can you share your experience with us? How did you save your warm feelings with your husband?
Maybe you wrote already about that but I didn't find.

Thank you,

Sofia

[mirror]

Thanks Sofia,

  Wow...I get the idea that many things can be learned by people from east and west as it seems there are many differences and the small things seem to be the key in my mind.

  Family here in Texas and the southern part of the USA is a bit different from other regions of the USA as each region has it's norms and differences. We are very close to family in the south and there is nothing most of us wont do for a loved one. In Ukraine I stared at a grandfather who had his grandchild by the hand,,,they were playing and laughing and it was hard to tell who was the child...This is what I consider very healthy and I watched them as long as I could without seeming intrusive. Your child needs this type of positive male influence I'm thinking because at hus age he needs to learn from the same sex parent or one who acts in that capacity. Studies show that the child learns and copies the same sex in order to learn his or her role in sexual identity.
  I worked with a Ukrainian girl here in Texas and she was 20-21 years old. I talked with her all the time...I noticed her age in mental maturity was far paced ahead of girls her age that I have met in USA. This is why I ask these questions....What would cause a rapidity of maturity but in such a balanced and normal way? In other words why is this 20 year old more mature than a 35 year old? It's not because she was plain....She was very very beautiful.

  Well I'm off to bed and get some sleep....Maybe you can help explain some more things about this subject?

Makkin
 

Makkin

I wonder  how you can see many aspects in life around you, how you can observe and analyze. 
The most grandparents love grandchildren more than own children. It is a fact. My mother loves my son very much, more than she loves me.

Yes, of course my son needs male company and positive male influence. I can see his interest. I’d like to find a man not only for me …for him too. I know my son will accept with great wish any man and will be after him all the time.
And I know my son wants to have another brothers and maybe sisters therefore I prefer a man with children. (I hope my star will show I am right or not)
But it is only our (with my son) personal wishes and I’d like to return to general
things.

You can guess why this girl was so mature because she maybe took a rich experience from her parents, grandparents; many relatives and maybe she were is mature by nature. 

For example, I remember many facts in our Russian history from my grandfather who was telling me that in my childhood. I could not know that from books. Only after many years I could read it. He had many interesting observations, analyses, and experiences, own conclusions. He tried to teach me how to live, social skills, and many another things.

Actually I think it is nothing special in Ukr and Russia. I think it is same in West. It depend from individual case and family.

I wait your special questions which you wanted to ask me.

Thank you,

Sofia

[Makkin]

Hello Sofia,

  With the change of government in Russia and Ukraine after the Soviet Union came apart was there a big difference in nations of Ukraine and Russia in your mind?
  Did the seperation of sorts cause a friction between the two peoples that would have changed society as seen in your eyes?
  If Texas were to leave the USA we would encounter hostility from the USA probably but we would not care as maybe there is a link here? We would not be influenced to change our mind if and unless we were forced to starve and our people were falling to the left and right. We would stand for our freedom and independence with regards to our documentation.
  Do you think there are hard feelings between Russia and Ukraine in areas of freedom and independence or is it something else I dont understand?
  I understand the orange revolution and I also understand the opposite move on the Russian side to narrow freedom in many areas. What do you think is taking place?

Have a good night,

Makkin

[mirror]

Hello Sofia,

  With the change of government in Russia and Ukraine after the Soviet Union came apart was there a big difference in nations of Ukraine and Russia in your mind?
  Did the seperation of sorts cause a friction between the two peoples that would have changed society as seen in your eyes?
  If Texas were to leave the USA we would encounter hostility from the USA probably but we would not care as maybe there is a link here? We would not be influenced to change our mind if and unless we were forced to starve and our people were falling to the left and right. We would stand for our freedom and independence with regards to our documentation.
  Do you think there are hard feelings between Russia and Ukraine in areas of freedom and independence or is it something else I dont understand?
  I understand the orange revolution and I also understand the opposite move on the Russian side to narrow freedom in many areas. What do you think is taking place?

Have a good night,

Makkin

It is very interesting question.

I don’t know good enough about a west. I can not compare our freedom with western freedom. Therefore I try to know more about a life of my colleges who lives in the west, I’d like to know more about democracy in the West. Yes, of course I can see TV programs and I can have a guesses but I’d like to feel this differences on my “skin”.

I think our politicians can not to open a gate to the west for Russians now. They try to correct our life with the best purposes. It is why I can accept our
politic. I can give a credit of trust for our government.

What I could see in the UK when I was there it was our government knew all good sides of western life and tried to bring that to Russia.I mean many new national programms in Russia ( in NHC,education, economy...)

Ukraine can not wait because of very low style of life.

[Makkin]

Hello Sofia,

  Feeling the differences in your skin as you mentione about the differences in western democracy versus another type government style and sometimes also called democracy.

  Our government was set up as a democratic-republic so we do not have a deomcracy actually..lol

  Freedom is security I think and democracy is supposed to give you that feeling in guarantees of rights and a list of other items. The feeling of security and protection under the law is good until you learn that most freedoms and things of that nature can be bought...Thus we have lawyers who negotiate for insurance companies as the Insurance companies own the lawyers..lol

  Feeling in your skin about the differences is tricky to explain...Lets say you opt to get into a rights issue in Russia and find that you are not able to fight the crisis you may finances or some other reason...Then you look to the west and see that in many European countries they may fight for you for free...Legal matters...and in the usa you can fight legally anyone and sue anyone easily as there are plenty of lawyers happy to represent you..lol...How does this make you feel?

  On the other hand...In the west and this a general statement you have the right to travel worldwide to most countries of your choice. People in the west tend to remain living in their country for various reasons but they can visit the WHOLE world with a passport. This feeling in your skin is good but in usa only 2% of population has a passport so you may be lucky to see 1% on their trip to your country.

  The experience you had in UK should have explained some of the differences of west and east and it should start your mind thinking of what is possible? What do you feel is possible by going to the west? Will going to the west alone be better for you or will you be better suited to go with a husband or partner?

  "Skin"....Hmmm....When I traveled to Ukraine I felt the people and the environment and I felt I understood a little bit but still I had the feeling in my skin to notice differences in experiences and I also felt the same in Russia. It takes time to adjust and we hear that here a lot..lol But.....Getting the feeling in your skin seems to be something specific you seem to want to feel? Is it something to do with a fresh start or a way to have a life that you have heard about from your friends who now live in the west?

Your Friend,

Makkin

 

[Elen]

  ..Legal matters...and in the usa you can fight legally anyone and sue anyone easily as there are plenty of lawyers happy to represent you..lol...How does this make you feel?

Ah a thought that I could get a lot after a divorse with American husband with a help of lawers would make me feel very well I guess Although somehow I have doubts "theoretical husbnad's" feelings would be the same

  On the other hand...In the west and this a general statement you have the right to travel worldwide to most countries of your choice. People in the west tend to remain living in their country for various reasons but they can visit the WHOLE world with a passport. This feeling in your skin is good but in usa only 2% of population has a passport so you may be lucky to see 1% on their trip to your country.

It's all about money people have - a lack of them closes any ways for american citizens as well as a lot of them open doors for Russians So yes you are right whith your statement that most freedoms and things of that nature can be bought... 

[Elen]

In Ukraine I stared at a grandfather who had his grandchild by the hand,,,they were playing and laughing and it was hard to tell who was the child...This is what I consider very healthy and I watched them as long as I could without seeming intrusive. Your child needs this type of positive male influence I'm thinking because at hus age he needs to learn from the same sex parent or one who acts in that capacity. Studies show that the child learns and copies the same sex in order to learn his or her role in sexual identity.
 

Excuse me for interfering your private friendly talks here with my noisy eternal question but  I can't help myself to ask it one more time

 - how do you see a future of those grandparents who were such happy to "have their grandchild by the hand" after moving with that grandchild abroad?

 A question is asked in "general" and personally to Sofia who told she lived with her mother who helped a lot with raising that 12 yo son and who she loved him more than a daughter

[mirror]

Hello Sofia,

  Feeling the differences in your skin as you mentione about the differences in western democracy versus another type government style and sometimes also called democracy.

  Our government was set up as a democratic-republic so we do not have a democracy actually..lol

  Freedom is security I think and democracy is supposed to give you that feeling in guarantees of rights and a list of other items. The feeling of security and protection under the law is good until you learn that most freedoms and things of that nature can be bought...Thus we have lawyers who negotiate for insurance companies as the Insurance companies own the lawyers..lol

OH!!! Yes, I agree….I think to play with a law is very exiting thing for lawers… LOL 

  Feeling in your skin about the differences is tricky to explain...Lets say you opt to get into a rights issue in Russia and find that you are not able to fight the crisis you may finances or some other reason...Then you look to the west and see that in many European countries they may fight for you for free...Legal matters...and in the usa you can fight legally anyone and sue anyone easily as there are plenty of lawyers happy to represent you..lol...How does this make you feel?

I sincerely belief Russia can find the right way from a economical crisis, of course with many mistakes but I can say now we eat not last bit of bread.We have a big potential to survive.
Sorry, I didn’t understand … you look to the west and see that in many European countries they may fight for you for free...Legal matters. Can you explain me? What do you mean? Only explain me again,pls. 

  On the other hand...In the west and this a general statement you have the right to travel worldwide to most countries of your choice. People in the west tend to remain living in their country for various reasons but they can visit the WHOLE world with a passport. This feeling in your skin is good but in usa only 2% of population has a passport so you may be lucky to see 1% on their trip to your country.

I hope you American have more financial possibilities to visit the whole world than we have …
 
  The experience you had in UK should have explained some of the differences of west and east and it should start your mind thinking of what is possible? What do you feel is possible by going to the west? Will going to the west alone be better for you or will you be better suited to go with a husband or partner?

It is very sly question. I prefer to have somebody in the country than be alone there. It can be my friends …but I’d like to have somebody who can be at my side always, who can help me to integrate in the West. I know I can learn very quickly but I’d like to feel some psychological support there.    

  "Skin"....Hmmm....When I traveled to Ukraine I felt the people and the environment and I felt I understood a little bit but still I had the feeling in my skin to notice differences in experiences and I also felt the same in Russia. It takes time to adjust and we hear that here a lot..lol But.....Getting the feeling in your skin seems to be something specific you seem to want to feel? Is it something to do with a fresh start or a way to have a life that you have heard about from your friends who now live in the west?

You ask personally me and I can answer only about myself. Yes, to feel another culture need some time, I agree.
I want to know how can I adapt there, how can I react (I mean real freedom), and of course I want to know about relationship between people (friendship, relationship between coworkers, neighbours…).I’d like to know how can  I feel myself comfortable there. My main principle in life I’d like to live in comfortable condition in my soul.
I can listen all stories from my friends about west life but I want to create my own way. Therefore I say …I want to start a fresh way of course.

Do you fancy Russians?

Yours sincerely,

Sofia

[mirror]

Excuse me for interfering your private friendly talks here with my noisy eternal question but  I can't help myself to ask it one more time

Elen, yes...you can interfere  our conversation without any problems.I think Makkin will be glad to know your opinion too.

[Elen]

Excuse me for interfering your private friendly talks here with my noisy eternal question but  I can't help myself to ask it one more time

Elen, yes...you can interfere  our conversation with any problems.I think Makkin will be glad to know your opinion too.

Truth tell  I counted not on permission because I'm rather unceremonious person in that matter but on answer at my question

[mirror]

Excuse me for interfering your private friendly talks here with my noisy eternal question but  I can't help myself to ask it one more time

 - how do you see a future of those grandparents who were such happy to "have their grandchild by the hand" after moving with that grandchild abroad?

 A question is asked in "general" and personally to Sofia who told she lived with her mother who helped a lot with raising that 12 yo son and who she loved him more than a daughter

sorry, Elen

I don't know how I lost my answer at your question.

Now I'd like to repeat again.

About grandparents...I want to keep my mother happy as longer as it is possible. She has another grandson too.
It is up to her ...if she wants to be next of my son I will do what I can do to her.But it is not important thing now because I am in Russia and we live together.

[Elen]

My question was actually not only abour "keeping" grand child - though I see that like one of the main problems in marriage abroad ( so here a thoughts of foreigner males who value family ties so much like it seems ( or is it not so? )  would be interesting  to hear)  but about future in general of old parents from "daughter's" viewpoint

 Do those daughters make any plan and discuss their moving abroad with their old mothers, do they try to choose a country before a man because of dfferent laws and posabilities for visits/relocation/ life after relocation and etc not only for them bu for OLD parents as well, do they know something at all about rules in foreigner countries in that sphera ? 

 Or is it just going in such way " we 'll cross that bridge when we arrive at it ( or something like that) which later just turns into something like -  "the problem melt in "natural way" ?

So what could you do for your mother after moving abroad if she wants to be next to you and your son? I repeat my question because I got that you lived in Russia now but I didn't get if you're going to continue with your searching abroad or what?

[mirror]

My question was actually not only abour "keeping" grand child - though I see that like one of the main problems in marriage abroad ( so here a thoughts of foreigner males who value family ties so much like it seems ( or is it not so? )  would be interesting  to hear)  but about future in general of old parents from "daughter's" viewpoint

 Do those daughters make any plan and discuss their moving abroad with their old mothers, do they try to choose a country before a man because of dfferent laws and posabilities for visits/relocatio/ life after relocation and etc, do they know something at all about rule in that sphera ?  Or is it just going in such way " we 'll cross that bridge when we arrive at it ( or something like that) which later just turns into something like -  "the problem melt in "natural way" ?
So what could you do for your mother after moving abroad if she wants to be next to you and your son?

concerning me, I don't discuss any plan to move to abroad with my mother because I don't see reason.She is old and can not understand.She only knows about this my wish.
But I feel my responsibility to care about my mother despite of she has a son too. I am oldest child and I have the most of this duty.
In muslim society we have a rule the youngest son is an inheritor and he must live with his own family with parents.And of course to care about parents.
In my family I am oldest and more succesful child and I take this duty myself to care about my mother.
I hope I can find a right way to bring her abroad, but not first time.Because I'd like first to be financialy stable  myself  there. I'd like to have my own business or good job and then to bring my mother (of course if she will want). 
I want to find WM not for to live at his money. I am preparing  my future business now.   
Maybe you have some experience with your parents already...if I may ask ...tell me pls about that.

[Elen]

I have not any experinence in that matter because I never considered a posability to move abroad All I have in that matter is life experience of my female friend who had to follow her husband who worked abroad ( and still workes) ad I had an opportunity to supervise a life of her mother back in Russia ( till "the problem melt in natural way)

 I'm speaking about moving  abroad "in general"  - reasons and ways to do that actually make no differentce in that matter  but only long distance and laws of foreigner contries wich make almost impossible to save this problem in "good" way 
And I  just thought that women who DID consider such a posability for themselves might have any clear ideas about this issue BEFORE ( or at the same time at least) they start to consider such a posability Because from what I could see to start to think about that later appears TOO later.

[wiz]

I have not any experinence in that matter because I never considered a posability to move abroad All I have in that matter is life experience of my female friend who had to follow her husband who worked abroad ( and still workes) ad I had an opportunity to supervise a life of her mother back in Russia ( till "the problem melt in natural way)

 I'm speaking about moving  abroad "in general"  - reasons and ways to do that actually make no differentce in that matter  but only long distance and laws of foreigner contries wich make almost impossible to save this problem in "good" way 
And I  just thought that women who DID consider such a posability for themselves might have any clear ideas about this issue BEFORE ( or at the same time at least) they start to consider such a posability Because from what I could see to start to think about that later appears TOO later.

Helen

Can you please try to explain again what are you talking about, because for the life of me, I have not a clue!

[Makkin]

Hello Sofia,

  You were asking how the west would fight for you legally in specific European countries?...Well some are more close to Socialism so they built the infrastructure for social services that come from taxation of the population and thus they have set aside the money and lawyers to represent you in legal matters....They have set up a system that involves all people in participation without maximum cost...In America you get what you pay for in legal matters unless the case is injury etc..(Maybe Legal and Olga are better experts on these matters...Yes they are..lol) But in socialism one must pay higher taxation of money earned....This results in security but less spending and investing capital for the middle class and upper middle class as I understand...

  Yes...You mentioned that you would like to be with that special person in the west...I also understand you would like to be with people you know from your country...That all makes good sense and it understandable as you assimilate into the west.

  Real freedom is something we all seek I believe and even if we are free. We may be free to move about freely and do whatever we wish but freedom is a broad statement of sorts. I myself look 20 years ahead and invest for the freedom that is real. I believe real freedom has to do with finances and thats the truth to me. Without a secure retirement there is no real freedom in my mind. If a person holds fast to spending money instead of saving then they are doomed here in America to depend on themselves in the long run...If a person saves money then they are free to live the whole life with a secure future. Just my short personal feelings on freedom..lol

  I do fancy Russians and I'm glad you asked the question. I visited a woman in Russia and had a wonderful time with her as we did the basic tourist thing and got to know each other....She is and was a wonderful person who later had her son commit suicide over a girl...He used the car in the garage method and breathed the fumes of the running engine....She was devestated and it was not the same as it was her only child...Her parents took care of her until she returned to work and now things are normal but never the same as they were....So sad...

  Recently I have been talking with a lady from Czech Republic and we get along very well. She is very interesting and has a lot of ideas that I find similar to mine. Who knows what will happen but we are trying to see things to another point....

  Do you think you will find another significant person or is that in your immediate future plans? Is your hope to reconcile with anyone or to move on to the next possible relationship?

Thanks,

Makkin



 

 

[Bruno]

But it is not important thing now because I am in Russia and we live together.

Yep... you have surprise me again...

I think that it have become important when you have start seeking a foreign husband... you need learn to make thing in the good order... like take a insurrance before the incident and not after !

Problem related to mother and son need to be spoken now... not when you will have find a groom... don't believe me ! Read the post of photo guy... about his "fiancee" who was in US and have return in Ukraine for take care of a familly member with some illness...

Thing related to own family, like mother and child need to be the first stage of the process... if family is something really important for you, that you cannot miss, better never start seeking a foreign husband...

I don't discuss any plan to move to abroad with my mother because I don't see reason.She is old and can not understand.

Whooowwww... have never try... and because she is old, she will not understand... show a lot of respect from one generation to the other... are your own child acting in the same way... saying you : "you are old and cannot understand" !!!

I have the most of this duty.

Taking care of parents is not a duty... it is something that any good child will make with pleasure... the reverse is true too... for good parents, taking care of children is not a duty but the reward of love, a joy of everyday ( almost  )

I hope I can find a right way to bring her abroad, but not first time.Because I'd like first to be financialy stable  myself  there. I'd like to have my own business or good job and then to bring my mother (of course if she will want). 

Again something that you need to think about before start... let see... one year dating periode, one year visa, one year language school, some professional formation, start work, and a few year for be financial secure... you are not so young, your mother is older... are you sure that she can wait so long... hmmm... make her come life with you... need to see where you seek a husband... Here in Belgium, it will only be possible after the green card... and you need to sponsor her totally...

Once you have find a fiance, something to speak about with him... not every man wil accept that your mother  come life together with him and hem... or maybe you plan to hire/buy a house/appartment specialy for her !

Sofia, it is not a critic but i see that you are involved in international dating from some time... but you have never make the "homework" needed before start these process... later, it will be to late... you needto think if a foreign husband is something for you... love is something wonderfull but live is not only love...

[mirror]

Hello Sofia,

  You were asking how the west would fight for you legally in specific European countries?...Well some are more close to Socialism so they built the infrastructure for social services that come from taxation of the population and thus they have set aside the money and lawyers to represent you in legal matters....They have set up a system that involves all people in participation without maximum cost...In America you get what you pay for in legal matters unless the case is injury etc..(Maybe Legal and Olga are better experts on these matters...Yes they are..lol) But in socialism one must pay higher taxation of money earned....This results in security but less spending and investing capital for the middle class and upper middle class as I understand...

  Yes...You mentioned that you would like to be with that special person in the west...I also understand you would like to be with people you know from your country...That all makes good sense and it understandable as you assimilate into the west.

  Real freedom is something we all seek I believe and even if we are free. We may be free to move about freely and do whatever we wish but freedom is a broad statement of sorts. I myself look 20 years ahead and invest for the freedom that is real. I believe real freedom has to do with finances and thats the truth to me. Without a secure retirement there is no real freedom in my mind. If a person holds fast to spending money instead of saving then they are doomed here in America to depend on themselves in the long run...If a person saves money then they are free to live the whole life with a secure future. Just my short personal feelings on freedom..lol

It is very important moment because I have not capital in the west for my secure retirement there.I must depend on myself and I know that.Therefore I look very serious at my possibility to live there. I do not know the law and I don't know which country.Maybe I will stay in Russia all my life but now I have an interest to know more about the West and western people.

  I do fancy Russians and I'm glad you asked the question. I visited a woman in Russia and had a wonderful time with her as we did the basic tourist thing and got to know each other....She is and was a wonderful person who later had her son commit suicide over a girl...He used the car in the garage method and breathed the fumes of the running engine....She was devestated and it was not the same as it was her only child...Her parents took care of her until she returned to work and now things are normal but never the same as they were....So sad...

I feel sorry...

  Recently I have been talking with a lady from Czech Republic and we get along very well. She is very interesting and has a lot of ideas that I find similar to mine. Who knows what will happen but we are trying to see things to another point....

You sound hopefuly and I think all will be right.


  Do you think you will find another significant person or is that in your immediate future plans?

If be honest I am not sure I will find significant person and now I live my own life here.I think about business too

Is your hope to reconcile with anyone or to move on to the next possible relationship?

I always try to find an empathy with a man wich whom I want to be. I didn't find this man yet. I am in search.



Thanks,

Makkin