Living in Russia.

[Wayne]

My Fiancee is tired of waiting for the K-1 and has asked me to come to Russia, get married and live there.  One of her girl friends is married to a man from Canada who did just that.  He purchases some apartments in Russia and they live off the rent money.  I am just old enough to start collecting Social Security.  That money would go a lot further in Russia.  I think you can have the Social Security deposited each month to a bank accound, and you could have access to the account in Russia.

I know some American men on this forum are living in Russia or Ukraine.  Can you offer advise or information?

Thanks!

[ScottinCrimea]

I can't speak about how it would be to live in Russia, but I chose to move to Ukraine to live with my wife and haven't regretted it for a second.  There are some inconveniences, but nothing that can't be gotten around, and you can definitely live quite nicely on social security here.

[jb]

Wayne,

I think it would depend on *where* in Russia, and how much is the SS check.  For example, a SS monthly payment of $1,500 would provide a nice living is some places but would be a bare existance in Moscow if you didn't own your own flat.

Your g/f also needs to investigate the rules and regs on immigration, it's not so easy to get a long term residence visa for Russia unless you are working there.

[Wayne]

My Fiancee and her daughter live in Krasnoyarsk, the second largest city in Siberia.  They can get by on about $600 per month.  They own the apartment.  There is no car and they do not yet have a driver's license.  So they go by bus or occasional taxi.  A typical taxi ride is $ 3 or 4.  The apartment could use some repairs, new floor covering, wall paper, drapes, etc.  The electric and telephone services are not dependable.  Once, the frig and tv got zapped by a voltate spike and went up in smoke!  Nothing is really dependable there.  The school is a short wall from the apartment.  It looks like crap on the outside, I did not see the inside.  Their apartment is one the ground floor, so no need to ride the dirty elevator.  Elevators are really tiny and dirty there and smell bad.  Bank, stores, etc. are nearby.  Bus stop right near the building.  The city is mostly industrial and used to be off limits to Americans.

[BC]

Wayne,

Definitely sounds like excellent conditions for a longer stay to check things out and see what immigration and other hurdles lie ahead.

Expat life ain't soo bad. Over 40 years in 7 different countries here and probably ain't done yet!

[LTCOLBIEGARD]

I would do it in a minute, although my wife is from  the Ukraine (we actualy have a flat in Kiev), but I am still working age and need to make the money while I can. Otherwise, I would have moved there years ago.   

     In general , great for anyone with alittle money. Most items are cheap by our standards and I have found they treat AMericans well- Sorry for you doubters !!

Only thing I would question at retirement age is health care, health insurance etc.... Just a thought....

[Wayne B]

My Fiancee is tired of waiting for the K-1 and has asked me to come to Russia, get married and live there.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Wayne, do not take this wrong.....It would be great for you to be able to move to Russia, and live a good life......My question is....why is your fiancee tired of waiting for a K-1 visa ???

[Phil dAmore]

Congratulations... you have lived long enough to start collecting SS.. at least there's enough in the system for you.  I still have another 20 years to go and by then.....    :noidea:

As for how much it will cost and can you get by on a SS payment...  it depends on how you want to live.  Living in Russia can be just as, if not more expensive than living in the U.S. or Canada if you intend to maintain the same standard of living.  However if you don't mind 'going native' you can get by on a LOT less. 

Housing is the budget-killer.  If you have that nailed down (and it appears that you do)  then the rest is easy. The place could use a few repairs?  So have them done.  If I may ask, what are the wife-to-be's  plans for the apartment after the K-1 goes through and she is with you in the states?  It could provide a nice steady tax-free income for you.  Not a great amount, but certainly more than enough to pay for a trip back to see the Rodinia
when you want to.

Getting access to your money is easy.  Just have that SS check direct deposited and pull out what you need via the ATM.  Consider opening an account with Citibank because then you don't get hit with obscene out-of-network ATM fees. Russian banks are little more than glorified currency exchanges and your money would be safer in a shoebox under the bed.

A bigger issue, pointed out above is health care.  Russian medical care isn't really as bad as everyone makes it out to be but it's not exactly cutting edge either.  A problem does exist with the availabilty and cost of certain medications.  On the other hand, you can buy Viagra and Cialis over the counter so I guess it balances out....

Remember, Krasnoyarsk may be a sh!thole, but its her sh!thole. Her home.  Many guys don't take that into consideration when getting involved in the process of meeting and marrying an FSU woman. This causes problems later when the men can't understand why their wives aren't deliriously happy to be in a place where it's relatively clean and everything works likes it's supposed to.

Living here isn't for the faint of heart, or for those who like things nice, neat, orderly and functional. But if you can handle it, it's a great opportunity to spend quality time with the wife-to-be on her home turf; that will provide you with a far greater insight of what married life will be with her, and it should give you a greater understanding of what she will be going through when she moves stateside.

[jb]

Frankly, I think a g/f's impatience is a poor reason to uproot your life and go live even temporarily in Siberia.  In all probability, by the time you got the long term visa, made arrangements to ship a few household items and extra clothes, and actually got there, the K-1 process would have been completed anyway.  Getting married in Russia presents a whole 'nother set of problems to the potential emigre.  You would have to scrap the whole K-1 route, which is probably at least halfway done, and then begin afresh with the even longer K-3 process with a spouse. 

If I were you I'd sleep on this idea for about a month and revisit the notion a bit later.

[I/O]

Wayne: As one who is right in the middle of this process now, I can sympathise with you and yours, BUT if she is "Puting the Wood" on you now to move to Russia, I would have grave concerns that the "Wood" will get a good deal heavier after she has spent a few months in your country and is dreaming of home.

I don't know all of it, but I know Southern Siberia quite well and I have spent some time in Krasnoyarsk.  It is actually similar in some ways to Novosibirsk in so far as it is one of the larger cities, but is not doing so well economically.  Quite a few outlying cities are in a similar boat, however I have been surprised to find a couple of Siberian cities doing very nicely.  Krasnoyarsk isn't one of them I'm sorry to say. 

As you say, parts of it are heavily industrialised and as such, I don't see the economics improving there anytime soon.  I guess what I am getting at is this. Yes you could probably live there on the sort of money you are talking, but to live the Siberian winter, even in the south were it is not so severe, in a tiny apartment, in an average city, doesn't seem to be aspiring to much of a lifestyle.  I couldn't see a mid class westerner coping with that for very long.

The visa issues have been covered by others and no need to repeat that.  There is no harm in taking some exteded holidays there whilst you wait the visa process, but as for living there, based on her lack of patience to wait the process, I'd be needing a lot more compelling reason than that if I was in your boots.

I/O

[Wayne]

Thanks for all the replies and advise.  Actually, Oksana does have a lot of patience.  This is the second time that I am doing a K-1 for Oksana.  The first petition expired when something happened that was not Oksana's fault.  It is 7 months since I filed the second petition and still when I tried calling USCIS they said it was still within the normal processing time.  California Service Center is now doing all the K-1's for Nebraska and Texas.  No wonder the delay!

Actually, I would prefere if we live in my home in Michigan and just go to Siberia for the Summer months.  My work is usually slow in the Summer and very busy in Spring and Fall.  Actually, I do all my work on a computer using Autocad and I could work anywhere and just email the results back to the company.  The company I work for direct deposts into my account now.  I could stay in contact with the company by email, fax and telephone.  I would just need to have an excellent internet connection in Krasnoyarsk.  I have done some engineering consultation work in the past.  This might be a means to earn some money without all the taxes and social security taken out.  If you are actually working while in Russia, I don't see how the US govenment could expect you to pay taxes.  The Russian govenment would probably not know about it. 

[Admin]

Thanks for all the replies and advise.  Actually, Oksana does have a lot of patience.  This is the second time that I am doing a K-1 for Oksana.  The first petition expired when something happened that was not Oksana's fault.  It is 7 months since I filed the second petition and still when I tried calling USCIS they said it was still within the normal processing time.  California Service Center is now doing all the K-1's for Nebraska and Texas.  No wonder the delay!

Actually, I would prefere if we live in my home in Michigan and just go to Siberia for the Summer months.  My work is usually slow in the Summer and very busy in Spring and Fall.  Actually, I do all my work on a computer using Autocad and I could work anywhere and just email the results back to the company.  The company I work for direct deposts into my account now.  I could stay in contact with the company by email, fax and telephone.  I would just need to have an excellent internet connection in Krasnoyarsk.  I have done some engineering consultation work in the past.  This might be a means to earn some money without all the taxes and social security taken out.  If you are actually working while in Russia, I don't see how the US govenment could expect you to pay taxes.  The Russian govenment would probably not know about it. 

You will need to re-think your situation re:taxes. The US government wants to tax you on your WORLDWIDE income - no matter where you earned it.

There *are* some provisions for breaks if you are physically out of the country for the vast majority of the tax year - but even then, your worldwide income in the basis for taxes.

Anyway - check with a good INTERNATIONAL tax accountant *prior* to making any decisions which involve the expectation of a reduction in taxes.

- Dan

[START2]

Dan
   Was wondering if that includes money the wife earns in FSU. Say over the summer? Does a LPR have to claim that as well? How would anyone know.

[Simoni]

It's true that we have to much governmental regulation in the USA; also true they don't have enough in the FSU.

For example, yesterday a chemical plant southwest of Dneproprovsk, Ukraine released tons of acid into the air.  2000 people are very ill and thousands more have headaches and sore throats today as the clouds move the toxin around.

One of the best standards of living in the world is in the US, and it's also one of the safest places to live.

So, yes, you can live more cheaply in the FSU.  But it's not comparing apples to apples.

The best reasons to live there would be to learn the langauge and the culture and to broaden your world view.

[Rvrwind]

The US government wants to tax you on your WORLDWIDE income - no matter where you earned it.

There ya' go, the US Government making your life easier. What a crock. I thought starting wars was their favorite hobby now they go & switch to rippin' off pensioners, sweet.
Pork barrel bottom feeders!!!

[chivo]

Wayne,

Why don't you get a 1yr multi entry business visa and move there now to see how things might unfold. If, as you say, you can work anywhere with a good internet connection, your only problem is making sure there's one in the city you're moving to.

There are ways to get around the tax situation if you're earning money in Russia, not a major worry there.

You could also rent out your house for extra income if you so desire, while using your mortgage (if you have one) as a tax buffer. There are ways to work this to your advantage as well.

Really the only drawback I see was mentioned about health care. Not sure what kind of shape you're in, but barring any unforseen illness, you should be ok, with a quick ticket out of the country as another option. Have a plan for this (healthcare), and as I see it, you're ready to go.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the first year if you're an adventurous type, and while not exactly as convenient as America, Russia with your lady and your particular situation, is not a bad option. America isn't going anywhere, and you'll always have your home. good luck

chivo

[Mir]

I don't know about US tax laws but in UK a person is considered as a resident for tax depending on how much time he spends in which country. So if one is a UK resident for tax purposes that all the income he/she earns overseas will be taxable as if it was earned in UK. If he/she was non-UK resident for tax than he/she can claim all money earned free of UK tax.

[chivo]

Mir,

I don't think that it's a problem since he's not from the UK.

Also, as I mentioned, unless your specifically sent by or transferred to Russia with a western company, your income will be, how should I say this, ahem, under the table, and very hard for any country to monitor.

Of course, we know everyone is honest with their taxes

Nobody likes taxes, especially the Russians  . Good luck.

chivo

[Rvrwind]

I havn't even filled out a tax form in 4 years, going home should be a real trip. LOL.
Can't even prove my income here, no T4's no nothin', oh well, what'a body to do. :noidea:
The shame of it all!!!

[Phil dAmore]

Yeah, the IRS insists on filing even if you had no income.. and if you don't, then you get hit with a 'failure to file' charge (a felony!)..

Yep, good old USA.. where else can you not do something and still be charged with a crime because you really didn't do it?

I'm in the same boat as Richard... I'm reasonably sure the boys at Infernal Revenue would like to have a word with me... 

... bring it on, boys.

[ScottinCrimea]

Not true that you must file a return even if you have no income.  Check out the IRS website.

[Wayne]

I wrote to Oksana that it is not a good time to sell a house now, because of the poor ecomony in Michigan.  Houses are on the market for a long time and selling for below the fair value. 

Oksana wants to learn to drive while she is waiting.  I think it would keep her busy.  Does anyone know if an International driver's license is good in Michigan?

Dan, the thing about taces is interesting.  Never thought about it before.  At least I could probably avoid the Michigan income tax, but not living in Michgan and still have a house here might mean losing the homestead property tax credit, which amounts to more than $1000 a year for me.  What about the Russian income tax?


I guess it pays to look at every angle before making such a big move.

[Phil dAmore]

Not true that you must file a return even if you have no income.  Check out the IRS website.

Well you are correct Scott... but for some reason I don't think they are going to believe me if I tell them that I haven't earned any money at all in the past five years...

... although that is pretty close to the truth!

[Rvrwind]

I don't think they are going to believe me if I tell them that I haven't earned any money at all in the past five years...

True Phil but we should be far below the lowest level for tax purposes so I can't see it being a big deal.
The problem I see is proving it without documents. Not sure about you as I never asked but me,mine has all been under the table, no records, so are they just gonna belive what I tell them or what :noidea: Thats the thing I'm worried about. They can't prove I worked & I can't prove I did or didn't so it comes to a stalemate & I know how those usually end!
Not sure if Canada is a strict as the US but I guess I'll find out soon enough. I know I am required to file every year whether I work or not, but if I ain't in the country I can't see where that should apply. :noidea: Oh well I'll let you know from my jail cell....

[Wayne]

The IRS would get a notice if you have investments in the US where you draw interest and dividends.  They would know what you get in Social Security.  If you rent out your home in the US, they would want to tax you on the rent received.  All this could mean that you need to file a tax return.  Now, what if you are married to a Russian woman who has a minor child, living in Russia--would you be able to take the exemptions for them and file a joint return?  You know, they ask for the Social Security Numbers on the return.  Do we have a tax Lawyer on board?

Oksana's best friend, L, was married to an American man and moved to Texas in December, 2004.  The husband found another woman and recently divorced L.  She has a teanage son.  The two of them are staying in Texas.  L was a RN in Russia, but works, I think, as a nurse's aid now.  If she gets to be a RN, the pay and job opportunities would be there.  Her English speaking is good now.  Oksana is very much influenced by L.