General characteristics of a RW

[wiz]

Reading Jazzy’s post, “Does marriage life change your attitude to Russian women “, and the many replies from married men to RW I come to realise that my own experience in RW does not differ much from the other’s views.

It is clear that RW characteristics are, apart from most of them been very attractive, they are stubborn, highly opiniated, outspoken, know all, motor mouth, avoid to accept mistakes and not apologise, frugal with money and so many other traits that can be found all over RWD.

Despite their assimilation in our Western cultures and norms, most if not all try to exert total control in a man’s contact with other people and persons he can talk, especially females, no matter of their status Platonic or otherwise. I have never experienced such control in my life with all my previous relationships, apart from the last one. I have been very happy with my ex-wife and ex-partner regarding this matter and find very difficult to accept such excessive control egging to suffocation. No I don't talk about total freedom but I personally think that such huge control is not a good element in any relationship from wherever the woman comes from. I have heard of many men here in UK with the same complain and that they are very unhappy about it. Whenever I tried to find common ground and make common decisions to whom we can talk, very soon I found the ground shifting again and the direction of Total control re-appearing.

So what really are the general characteristics of a RW and what a man searching for a future wife in the FSU must expect to find?

[Jet]

Not going to do a total in-depth response at this time, but I can say that there are the "jealous type" RW and others that are not (so much). You have to understand that for older women, this is part of the reality of life due to competition for decent guys. I have had "shop girls" hit on me with Liliya standing beside me while in Russia. After 3 1/2 ys, she is still pleasantly surprised that I'm a "one woman" guy, and has stopped judging me by Eastern standards. In the beginning, she didn't *think* I had a GF on the side, she *KNEW* I had a GF on the side, because that's what Russian guys do. That's what her Father and Uncles did at my age, and that's what her Ex-Husband did; always discrete and never talked about, but reality none the less. Some women have the self confidence not to worry about it, others don't. Luckily for me, Liliya IS the self confident type, and so we were able to talk openly about these things. I've seen other Russian wives whose self esteem was not so high and it ain't pretty for the man. IMHO - the more self confident the woman is, the less chance she'll be a domineering control freak.

[Mir]

Women love us for our defects. If we have enough of them, they will forgive us everything, even our intellects.
(Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891)

[Voyageur]

Wiz said:

It is clear that RW characteristics are, apart from most of them been very attractive, they are stubborn, highly opiniated, outspoken, know all, motor mouth, avoid to accept mistakes and not apologise, frugal with money and so many other traits that can be found all over RWD.

This is in my opinion a somewhat nasty-spirited generalization.  When thinking about FSU women in general these are certainly some top level characteristics that I have heard. They are attractive and keep themselves well because their society sort of demands that a woman respect herself and her man by looking as attractive as possible at all times. Also, as I understand it, in FSU culture is that it is perfectly acceptable for men to belittle and chastise unattractive women.  So this is another pressure for her to look as good as possible.

In my experience also, if a FSU woman is opinionated she often only relates her opinion to those that she trusts.  In everyday, general company I have never seen a FSU woman be anything less than charming.  In private conversation this is often another way entirely, however  . Families don't bother with the wasted energy required for sugar-coating and  politically correct speaking.

Certainly, making sure that you get the most for you money is always a smart thing to do. To say that people from the FSU are frugal has not been my experience, where I have had elaborate dinners prepared for me and have been given thoughtful presents when I have visited there.  I would say the in the West we are more frugal in general when it  comes to greeting visitors.  As I understand it, generally life in the FSU is more "carpe diem" than in the west. Since most people own their flats or apartments in the FSU, the monthly home mortgage payment race does not exist and people spend what extra money they make on living.

I can't agree with your "know-it-all and motor mouth" opinions.  As for your control assertions, I am sure that you heard the expression that a real woman is the neck of the family. You should expect your woman to try to exert her influence on you, on her idea of what is best for your family. Hopefully, these ideas are similar to yours. If they are not, you should look at these ideas objectively and see if her ideas don't have some merit. If you are being honest with yourself and not a know-it-all, you may find that a frank and fresh look at your life situations enlightening. A healthy self-esteem also makes life easier and nothing can be more important than mutual trust!


 

[supranatural]

Wow Wiz that is a really negative opinion of RW.  I've been married for 5 years to a RW and although we are in the middle of a divorce, she definitely does not fit your description.  Stubborn, yes at times.  But she was also able to see when I was right (eventually) and learn from that experience.  Jealous?  Only of my ex-fiancee, other than that she totally trusted me and I had free reign to go hang out with whoever I wished whenever I wanted.  No recriminiations of possible g/f's on the side, etc.  I've never had a significant other who was fine with giving me so much freedom, of course I really did not take advantage of this much as I preferred spending my time with her.

Not trying to attack you Wiz, but it seems to me that your ongoing battle with Sophia seems to have made you very biased against RW...

[Mamma D]

WOMEN OF ANY COUNTRY OR CULTURE..................

Are WOMEN......Some super good  .....some super bad (at least in some opinions)

AND A WHOLE LOT ARE IN THE MIDDLE.............

 I think this applies to men as well 

We all have worts and bumps......And if you are to find a life long friend they must be accepted as they are.....not as you wish.

I would suspect you may also have a few worts.......I also hope there are those that love you in spite of them 

[BC]

Reading Jazzy’s post, “Does marriage life change your attitude to Russian women “, and the many replies from married men to RW I come to realise that my own experience in RW does not differ much from the other’s views.

It is clear that RW characteristics are, apart from most of them been very attractive, they are stubborn, highly opiniated, outspoken, know all, motor mouth, avoid to accept mistakes and not apologise, frugal with money and so many other traits that can be found all over RWD.

Despite their assimilation in our Western cultures and norms, most if not all try to exert total control in a man’s contact with other people and persons he can talk, especially females, no matter of their status Platonic or otherwise. I have never experienced such control in my life with all my previous relationships, apart from the last one. I have been very happy with my ex-wife and ex-partner regarding this matter and find very difficult to accept such excessive control egging to suffocation. No I don't talk about total freedom but I personally think that such huge control is not a good element in any relationship from wherever the woman comes from. I have heard of many men here in UK with the same complain and that they are very unhappy about it. Whenever I tried to find common ground and make common decisions to whom we can talk, very soon I found the ground shifting again and the direction of Total control re-appearing.

So what really are the general characteristics of a RW and what a man searching for a future wife in the FSU must expect to find?

Wiz,

Except for the first and last sentence of your post you are simply making a statement about your own experience that we are all well aware of.. - don't need to get into it here for sure..

We could go on and on about the general characteristics of RW or any W for that matter but it's been done a zillion times.

Maybe, in veiled form you are asking "Why is it sooo easy for men to pull the trigger to get into a relationship and then find it sooo hard to pull that same trigger and get out of one when the characteristics of the woman are not compatible with theirs."

Well to answer that I think many don't even know what they want out of a relationship in the first place, then get stuck in a rut rationalizing that the 'shell' might be worth dealing with it even if it means compromising their own values.. at least for a while.... until the next better deal comes along.

[MaxxumUSA]

It is clear that RW characteristics are, apart from most of them been very attractive, they are stubborn, highly opiniated, outspoken, know all, motor mouth, avoid to accept mistakes and not apologise, frugal with money and so many other traits that can be found all over RWD.

Wiz...  if anything I would say this exactly describes the AW I have dated.  All with the exception of the frugal with money part.

One important thing to me in a relationship is that both parties apologize for the part they played in things.  I have had relationships with many AW and never heard one single apology.

On the other hand I met my RW Elena.  We had a few disagreements and we both always apologize and she has been the first to apologize about 1/2 the time.  One time we were talking and all was OK as far as I knew.  We say goodbye on the phone.  A minute later she SMS's me "I'm sorry."  I called her to ask what she meant.  She said she was mean to me.  Hehe...  I didn't even notice.  I just thought she was tired and needed rest...  which was true.  It was a long workday.

Now here is a woman who has her choice in men.  She is beautiful, open minded, kind, and friendly.  When I visit her she has girlfriends and family constantly calling her to invite us places.  Everyone wants to spend time with my Elena because she is SO opposite what you mention here, wiz.  And...  she has women friends she calls to spend time with because they are good people also.

I mention this in case any new people might read this and take what you post to heart.  My experience with RW is opposite what you mention.

You did get the attractive part correct.   

[WmGO]

I think Wiz's *generalization* about FSUW is an accurate one. That of course means that there are some FSUW who do not fit the generalization - and that is exactly what the challenge is for WM  looking for  an FSUW - the type that is outside their cultural norm, or at least *mostly* outside their cultural norm......yes, there is always danger in making generalizations.........best to avoid them, but WM need to know as much as they can about FSU and FSUW so SOME generalizations are in order.......most if not all FSUW will have at least SOME of the characteristics that Wiz mentions, some will have a lot of them and some will have very few of them..........every woman is different.........and these generalizations do not even include the shark infested waters reality............

Not exactly relevant to this thread, but I am reminded
of a 30 y.o. nice young lady I met from a Western Ukrainian city a couple years ago. I was on one of my many humanitarian aid trips, this one to the West. I made a point as I usually do to meet a couple or three ladies after my business was completed. This particular lady could speak good English, a real nice lady, helped me with getting a hotel in her city (which was only a two hour drive from Kiev) for our short meeting (just one day).......I invited her to come to Kiev to see me for my last day in country but she had to work that next day, a Monday if I recall correctly. She helped me get a driver back to Kiev and we said our goodbyes.......The driver took me to an apartment that I had arranged to stay at...........and the next morning about 9 a.m. the door bell starts ringing and ringing and ringing...........I am tired and catching up on my rest.......and figure that it has to be for the flat across the hallway (there was one hallway that led to two apartments and that hallway has a locked door with door bell)........noone from the other flat answers it and it keeps ringing incessantly so I drag myself out of bed and go to the hallway door - and it is the lady from West Ukraine!!!! She had obviously had the driver tell her the address of where he took me to in Kiev (they both had cell phones)!!!  I don't know if she liked me that much or if her sense of curiosity or suspiciousness overwhelmed her or what...........but there she was!!

[wiz]

I think Wiz's *generalization* about FSUW is an accurate one. That of course means that there are some FSUW who do not fit the generalization - and that is exactly what the challenge is for WM  looking for  an FSUW - the type that is outside their cultural norm, or at least *mostly* outside their cultural norm......yes, there is always danger in making generalizations.........best to avoid them, but WM need to know as much as they can about FSU and FSUW so SOME generalizations are in order.......most if not all FSUW will have at least SOME of the characteristics that Wiz mentions, some will have a lot of them and some will have very few of them..........every woman is different.........and these generalizations do not even include the shark infested waters reality............

Thanks everybody for your replies and I have to say that the above quote from WmGO is much nearer to my own understanding and views.

No I am not running any battles with Sofia anymore and I have moved on because she had, as you already know all the above characteristics and more..... I do not look at her as a typical RW example but as an exception. I have also met other RW apart from her in the past and saw similar patterns and that is why I mentioned them. I also do not think to stick to that experience is healthy for my views.

You know that I am on my search again and I thought good idea to air these observation and maybe I learn something more about RW. I mention that looking around many posts on RWD I found all these characteristics and I will not spent time to make a collection of examples.

Of course the more views I hear the better for my knowledge, and you can not accuse me for asking such questions.

I maybe not answer for awhile because I am going to be away for sometime, to clear my head, before I stuck down to it again.

One thing I can say, with highinsight now, is that in my "Dilemma" I chosen the wrong woman!
I only regret the wasted time of 8 months, effort and money of course as I end up with nothing.

Oh well life goes on.

Mir

Where is your travel report from your last trip, or nothing to say?

[wxman]

Wiz,

I think you could switch RW with AM in your statement and in many cases that would be true too. I have seen some AM act the same way and treat their wives exactly the way you describe the way RW treat their husbands. Of course, neither all the AM or all the RW act that way, and I am a lucky one that has not been treated in such a fashion by my fiancee. Yet. 

[ScottinCrimea]

I remember in medical school one seasoned old professor told us, "Half of what you learn in medical school will be wrong.  The trick is in knowing which half."  The same can be said for wiz's comments.  I think he's maybe 50% right.  I also think that the exact same post could have been written about AW with a few extras thrown in.

I'll only speak on the control issue.  RW want a strong man.  They are very willing to defer to the man if he is decisive, fair and shows some modicum of intellect.  In the absence of this they will assume control.  I've said it before, wishy-washy just doesn't fly with them.  Some will either consciously or subconsciously test the man.  You must gain their respect in addition to their love.

[Kuna]

General Characteristics???

Strong willed, intelligent, well developed sense of style, family oriented...

Other than that I think it's almost futile to try to generalise. They're just women!

The way I see it... the good FSUW are just like good Western Women.  The biggest difference MIGHT be the number of available GOOD FSUW compare to available GOOD Western Women.

Reading wiz's post above doesn't remind me of anything I saw in any of the RW I met...

I asked My Girl about male/female friendships and this is basically her "take" on it:

1. She wouldn't have male friends because she knows any man wanting to be her friend will not just want to be friends... UNLESS he is gay.
2. She knows I have female friends and "of course" I can keep my old female friends, BUT she doesn't think I should want new female friends.  "If a woman wants to be your friend she should want to be our friend", and;
3. If either her or I feel jealousy there is a problem in our relationship.  We will need to look at our relationship and not focus on the jealousy because relationship problems can be fixed... jealousy can't.

Controlling???  I don't think so... but I think she will have very specific requests about what's appropriate and what's not.  If I don't agree with that I should move on.

Kuna