Where are all of the agencies going

[Kevin]

I've notice this year that many honest agencies are closing down or up for sale. I have 3 agents who are closing up shop this year because the Men aren't making the trips as often as in the past.

I am still getting 10-15 new ladies joining each week so the ladies are still interested.  The problem is the Men aren't in large numbers anymore.

Is there any new Agencies with Honest owners coming online this Summer that anyone is aware of?

At this current rate I expect that all private small agencies will be close up within 3 years and it will be nothing left but agents and computerize web sites.

[WmGO]

The novelty of WM pursuing FSUW is wearing off.........but this is probably good news to the serious WM who is willing to make the journey over there......plus I speculate that there are so many WM who have been ripped off, scammed, had bad trips etc. that they share their experiences with other WM which also has a negative impact on the willingness of WM to take the crap shoot........

[Kevin]

I believe most of it is due to TV and the negative rule it has played in portraying the RW/UW.  I can think of at least 4-5 tv shows and movies that didn't do the industry any good. Plus all of the reports and comments about scammers.

The truth is Bad news sells and good news is keep privage. It is sad that so many good RW/UW will not be able to meet someone because of a few bad apples.

Kevin

[El Rock]

It is sad that so many good RW/UW will not be able to meet someone because of a few bad apples.

Kevin

Oh come on , a few bad apples ?
It's more like 10%  to 30 %  are  scammers ,
 can't find a man where they are because they are messed up  in the head , just to name 2
that make up the high percent .

[Kevin]

I believe the number to be a lot less. Around 2 percent. The problem is this 2 percent is talked about 99 percent of the time and are the most active 2 percent in the scam industry.

If men would just keep their wallets closed to these scammers it wouldn't be a problem.

I have 1000's of ladies in my database and we get less then a 1 percent scam ratio. Even I can't keep all of the scammers out. I can only remove them when they scam.

The other factors is the days when a Men could come and be overwhelmed by 18 year old models trying for their attention is just about over.  It is more balances today then it was a few years ago.  A man still get to pick a lady that is more beautiful then what he has available back with and most often with more family values.

I would love to see this industry stick it out for the long run. But I see it becoming more like the system we have in the USA where the computers generate the matches and the "human touch" is no longer a part of the system.

Kevin

[IAmZon]

"The other factors is the days when a Men could come and be overwhelmed by 18 year old models trying for their attention is just about over.  It is more balances today then it was a few years ago.  A man still get to pick a lady that is more beautiful then what he has available back with and most often with more family values.

I would love to see this industry stick it out for the long run. But I see it becoming more like the system we have in the USA where the computers generate the matches and the "human touch" is no longer a part of the system."

May not be a BAD thing ... all excesses become balanced.  Out of the imbalanced matches that were spoonfed, how many lasted over time?  How many were ultimately good fro both parties?

I think both parties will be served better in a more equitable market.

This comes as good news to me.

I understand your position and the human touch, the guidance, you gave to your female and male clients will be missed.  Is it possible that a new model will emerge?

Best of luck.

[Rvrwind]

My own opinion is companies like AFA, CC, Army of  Brides & their ilk with the spamming & scamming are responsible for the death of this industry. So many guys have got burned that the word is out & they don't trust agencies anymore.
Guys are still coming, I see lots of them, but they are not using agencies, they are doing it without us. I can't say as I blame them, but those who came before them & kept the scammers operational are the ones that screwed it up for everybody as well as the agencies who fed them the hype & fantasy.
I stated many times that soon there will be no honest agencies left & there will only be those who use & abuse & they will continue to grow & prosper. Kevin & me will likely go the way of Thors friend eventually as it just won't pay to keep the doors open. With all the info out there on the rip offs & the scammers you would think the men would get a clue, but they don't, they still put the money in the pockets of those who deserve it the least. We have seen it right here on this board where a member went against all what was told negatively about the company he was dealing with & he still chose to use them.
You the clients have the power to change the status quo but time & time again have refused. Like everything else in life it is easie to leave it to someone else to do what is required. In the end however, it is the men & women in this endeavour that will suffer, us we'll just move on to something else.
I for one will hold out as long as I can but I do believe that in a very few years if one doesn't join one of the big 3 one might as well close up shop. It will be a sad day for us, but even a sadder day for the industry when wrong succeeds over right!!

[BC]

Probably the biggest factor is that practically all women now have phones and maybe even good internet connections.  They can list themselves on a number of free sites and even pick who they want to communicate with.

A few years ago (maybe 5 or so) this did not seem to be the case and guys were more or less forced to communicate using agency services.

The role of  'commercial communications facilitator' is probably obsolete.  Those that wish to remain will probably have to offer a lot more in the way of quality services to attract paying customers. 

[Rvrwind]

'commercial communications facilitator'

I like that BC, can I use it? 

[Momus]

The role of  'commercial communications facilitator' is probably obsolete.  Those that wish to remain will probably have to offer a lot more in the way of quality services to attract paying customers. 

I think this is exactly right. I also don't think the small agencies do themselves any favors. I'll talk about Kherson Girls here, but only because it was the small agency I came very close to using last year.

Consider this tough love or constructive criticism. I certainly don't mean it to be mean-spirited in any way.

First, your website for all practical purposes is your storefront. In a very real way, it is your business. Your storefront is a mess. The site design looks like something from 1997. Information is scattered all over the place. The site is very hard to navigate. There are typos and poor grammar in just about every sentence.

What about price? Well, it's kinda hard to tell, because again, the information is scattered all over the place. Let's go to services and then memberships. Okay, monthly membership for $50.00. Says I get 10 letters for that. What does that mean? Does that mean 10 email addresses? Or does that mean I have to pay you each and every time I send a letter to a woman I'm interested in?

I can't tell. I'll go to "Questions and Answers." Nope, nothing there. Eventually, if I stick around long enough, I might deduce from the profile listings that an actual email address (or some kind of "address") is available for $35.00. So presumably the 10 letters I can send with my $50 are just 10 individual letters through the agency. I think. At this point, it probably doesn't matter because I'm off to check out a different site.

Ultimately, I went with Elena's Models. Decent reputation. Better website. Better "selection," if you'll excuse the unfortunate terminology. Gold Membership is $150 for six months. That gets me unlimited expressions of interest, so I can find out if a woman is interested before I contact her. And it gets me up to 50 actual email addresses. No jerking around, paying the agency to forward my "letters" for me. Honestly, not a real tough choice.

I think you guys blame everything on the big scam agencies at your own peril. Your business model is woefully outmoded, unprofessional, and uncompetitive. Fix that, and you just might become a big agency too. Hell, with integrity, honesty, and reliability to go along with an excellent website and competitive pricing, you'd be unstoppable.

[viking]

Maybe 2 years ago I had put up a profile on A Web. I asked for it to be removed perhaps a year later, unsubscribed if you will. I heard nothing from them until about a month ago. Now I am receiving about 2 emails a day. All ages. What is interesting is that I cannot open the letters nor respond, even if I wanted to, and I do not want to. I am at a loss to explain all this recent activity. Does anything think it may have something to do with Kherson Girls original topic?

[caseyb2050]

From personal experience I can tell you that the first Russian Bride websites that I found were the largest most well known ones.  I found that they were scams- for various reasons listed in detail on this site.  Most people would stop their search there and deduce that the whole industry was some sort of scam.  I investigated further and found a smaller, more focused and honest agency.  What is the percentage of other people who will do that? 

[Dan C.]

Casey, I had a similar experience.  I doubt most would continue.  In my case I did not for several months, then decided to be more diligent and look harder.   

I also agree with Momus, the Kherson girls website is confusing and poorly put together.  I almost went there despite it, not because of it.  The reasons I finally did not go had nothing to do with the website though. 

Dan C.

[catzenmouse]

I also agree with Momus, the Kherson girls website is confusing and poorly put together.  I almost went there despite it, not because of it.  The reasons I finally did not go had nothing to do with the website though.

I'd be very curious as to what you think about the Tverangels.com website. Is it confusing? Poorly put together? I know Richard would like to give the best experience that he can but in the end it is the user who knows what they like or don't like.

[Momus]

I'd be very curious as to what you think about the Tverangels.com website. Is it confusing? Poorly put together? I know Richard would like to give the best experience that he can but in the end it is the user who knows what they like or don't like.

I sense some personal investment in the question. Did you design the site? If so, as I told Kevin, please believe that none of my comments are meant to be mean-spirited. If not, the same goes for Richard. For that matter, it's my opinion, so take it for what you think it's worth.

I'm a copywriter, so I'll just make some general comments about the copy. As for the design, it's easier to navigate and the information is more accessible, but I think it's sorely in need of an update. Check out http://www.sage-hearts.com. It's an affiliate site rather than an agency, but the principles that make it so effective apply here, as well. The owner probably makes more in a year than all of us participating in this thread put together, and she definitely knows what she's doing.

Okay, Tver Angels. Let's start with the header. This is your headline, so it better grab my attention. That's its only job. This one doesn't grab my attention, it just makes me squint. The graphics make it cluttered and difficult to read. I think "Mature Women for Mature Men" is a poor choice for a subhead. "Mature" is too often a euphemism for "old," and it's fair to say that most of your paying customers aren't looking for "old."

Having gathered a thing or two about Richard's approach to the business, I would have chosen something like "Classy Ladies for Classy Men" or "Elegant Ladies for Discerning Gentlemen." Both "classy" and "elegant" conjure the right image, in my view: feminine, traditional beauties who don't wear sweatpants or insert "like" and "f--k" into every sentence at least twice.

Okay, moving on. The job of your main page is to answer one question. It's the question that is on every visitor's mind when he visits your site. If you don't answer it, your visitor is usually going away. That question is, "What's in it for me?"

So what kind of answer do we get? Essentially...no answer at all. Above the fold, we basically just get some touristy information on Tver. I don't care about Tver -- tell me about the Angels instead. Tell me about the benefits of using your agency (note I said "benefits" and not "features"). If I decide to do business with you, then maybe I'll want to learn more about Tver. But you can bet that's not why I'm visiting your site.

Look at Elena's Models. Her site is getting dated, too, but it's better. In any case, let's just focus on the copy. Headline and subhead are good: "Elena's Models: Meet the Love of Your Life." Now we're cooking with Crisco. My eye starts at the top left of the page where I see a search box, and moves to the right where I see nice photos of beautiful women -- which make me want to use the search box. Nice.

Below that, I get another headline: "Meet Model Quality Russian Women - Beautiful, Pre-Screened, REAL Girls Seeking a Man Like YOU!" Oh yeah, THAT is answering my question. In fact, as a copywriter, I'd have to give some serious thought to how I could do a better job of answering the "what's in it for me" question.

Most of the copy that follows is just cashing out the PROMISE made by this very effective headline, starting with a bulleted list (great choice) and moving on to the "social proof" offered by the numerous testimonials, media reports, etc. Features and benefits of her services are all presented in an accessible and effective way. She gives me a complete sales pitch on the front page, without even asking me to click my mouse.

Another effective thing she does is capture email addresses. At least I think she does. She offers a free ebook, "9 Simple Rules for Dating Russian Women," and though I didn't order it, I'm betting you have to give up your addy to get the goods. I sure hope so. Anyway, Kevin and Richard should both be doing this. I'd make it even more direct and obvious. Put an opt-in form to sign up for your email newsletter above the fold. Give them a free report as a bonus for signing up. Again, see sage-hearts.com. You'll want to subscribe to an autoresponder service to automate this for you.

Why am I emphasizing this? Because it's a proven fact that the typical prospect will need to return to your site 7 times before opening his wallet and becoming a customer. And if you don't remind him you're there, he's probably going to forget about you long before he makes it back 7 times. With an opt-in list and an autoreponder, you give him periodic gentle reminders and updates that will bring him back and convert him into a customer.

I don't want to drone on and on, but to summarize, I'd seriously consider an updated design and I'd completely redo the main page copy along the lines I've suggested.

On a vaguely related note, if you guys can't afford PPC advertising and you're not doing any article marketing, you should be. Ezinearticles.com is a PR 7 site. With the right keyword choices and basic SEO, an article you submit to the site is virtually guaranteed to land on the first page of Google's organic search results in a week or less. Each article links to your site, which drives pre-qualified traffic directly, and also gives you backlinks from a high-PR site that will move you up in the search rankings.

I charge $30.00 for a typical 400-500 word article, including keyword research and SEO, but you can find cheaper. Go to a site such as http://rentacoder.com or http://www.elance.com and find writers to bid on your articles. Just keep in mind that you get what you pay for. You can probably get an article written for $5.00, but the writer will likely be an Indian with a less than fluent grasp of English and not the first clue about how to SEO your article effectively. Just tread carefully and don't go too cheap. It goes without saying that your writer isn't likely to know anything about your industry and won't be inclined to do much research for five or ten bucks, but I'm not going to pimp myself any more than I already have. 

Good luck, and I hope this will at least provide some constructive food for thought.

[Dan C.]

I'd be very curious as to what you think about the Tverangels.com website. Is it confusing? Poorly put together? I know Richard would like to give the best experience that he can but in the end it is the user who knows what they like or don't like.

Ken,

  I took a quick (5-7) minute look at that site.  Momus already provided a detailed critque, so I will say a few things.  It well organized and put together and not confusing. 

  I will echo one of Momus's comments, and that is the slogan at the top, "Mature women for mature men," is bad.  I'm 40 and that sort of turns me off, makes me figure the women on this site are older.  Also, I agree with Momus that the Tver city info should not be on the front page- put it somewhere else.

  One thing Momus did not comment on was the search feature, or lack of.  I cannot search the women at all.  They are broken into age categories for me.  Put a search feature that lets me search by age, marital status, children, language, smoking, and that would improve it.

Dan C.

[Momus]

  One thing Momus did not comment on was the search feature, or lack of.  I cannot search the women at all.  They are broken into age categories for me.  Put a search feature that lets me search by age, marital status, children, language, smoking, and that would improve it.

I'm not sure about recommending a search engine, because I'm not sure how many women they have registered at their agency. You certainly don't want to implement a search engine if a guy is going to punch in his preferences and come up with a donut. The last thing you want to tell a prospect is "I have nothing for you here."

If you do implement a search engine, you have to test it thoroughly and make sure you can come up with at least a few results for every possible search iteration. Along those lines, I think search engine implementation can be pricey, but I've never done it so I'm not entirely sure.

On the same note, though, the age categories are too broad. Putting the 18 and 29 year olds in one category is just enough rope for a guy like me to hang myself. 

[catzenmouse]

Very interesting comments! Thanks much! I played a small part in the site creation and am always interested in what makes a good site to the user. Its too easy to look at it from one view and think that you have all the bases covered but you are usually wrong if you think this way. I sent Richard a PM with a link to this thread so he can see what it looks like from the user side.

Ken

[Rvrwind]

Been out of town for three days & just got back & read this.Thanks Ken or the PM.
I will be writing a 'Trip Reprt' of sorts about it titled "The Trip From Hell"!!! Long story but I don't have time right now, just got home 2 hours ago & much to catch up on..
I do appreciate the input, believe me I am far from an expert when it comes to marketing on the internet so I shall take you critique with much interest & likely make some suitable changes.
First I will address some comments & mention why I chose to do it the way I did.
1/ the header - well it is kinda busy, no doubt about it, we might look in to a bit of a less busy design but along the sae lines.
2/ the tag line"Mature Women for Mature Men, obviously it is apperant it is not conveying the message I had intended it to.That is likely that others due to lifestyle or there own mindset are taking it out of the context I intended. When I chose that & what it says to me is that the women on this site are exactly that, they are women, ready for marriage & not girls playing games & that the men should be of the same mindset. That was the message I had hoped to deliver. Obviously I blew that, LOL.
3/ Momus used this line from EM - "Meet Model Quality Russian Women - Beautiful, Pre-Screened, REAL Girls Seeking a Man Like YOU!" - which is nice, but also total bull. There is no way in hell they know there women as well as we know ours & as a lot of their women can register over the internet, there are hundreds they never meet but yet they claim they do. Anybody who believes that is a deamer.
4/Momus is dead on about the search engine. At this point I see no point in it. There are just not enough ladies on our site to warrent the cost of a full blown search engine. I have been considering just a basic one that if a guy types in the ladies profile # after he has gone through the site he can pick her out again without going through the entire site looking or her again. But to add a full blown search enine right now I don't believe is justified as I cannot do it myself & would have to hire a specialist to write the program, not a cheap prospect if you want a job well done. The simple one box basic search I can do myself right through my provider without any great problems.
5/ the front page text. I chose this route as I was trying to avoid all the hype & crap associated with this industry. Most of it is illusion & I didn't want to fall into that trap. Also as we market as a travel agency as well I didn't want to emphizise that if your not looking for a woman, don't bother coming. I wanted to give the reader the veiw that we are not your typical dating agency & can offer much more than just women to meet. I have been looking at rewriting that page for seeral weeks & have yet to come up with a viable replacement text that I am happy with, so this is something I was already on top of.
Momus I may contact you in regards to the article & SEQ you spoke of as it is over my head.
As for your coments & those of others, I thank you all. I firmly believe that if one cannot accept constructive critisism, one should not be in business.

[Dan C.]

Richard,

  Your ability to accept constructive criticism is probably why your site is better than most, and why you will stay in business after most of your competition has fallen by the wayside.

Dan C.

[Turboguy]

I have to agree with the comments Momus makes Richard.  I am not a copy writer like him but I do spend most of my time either creating advertsing copy, creating brocures or creating websites.  Even though that is what I do I am self taught and rather dumb at it but seem to do a decent job.

I think the biggest thing that I thought was a bad choice was the header, Mature women for Mature men will send them running.  Truthfully a guy in his forty's thinks of himself as young in this search.  He is going to say this is not for me.  People my age may look at it and think this is the site for me but when I looked through your ladies on your site long ago there were next to none looking for a mature man.

Elena's heading might be a bunch of bunk but it sells.  One of the first things I learned long ago is that you must give people what they want.  I have seen many companies who had something better than what people wanted but it was not "what" they wanted.  They all went out of business. 

I would suggest taking Elena's heading and reworking it to give the same type theme.  Maybe something like. "Beautiful Russian ladies who dream of meeting a man like you"  then add a small subtitle like "personal service, helping you to meet ladies we have carefully prescreened"    I don't like that quite as well and might play with the wording a bit.

I will also say put it all where people can find it without clicking too much.   I had another agency ask me to critique their site.  He told me what their program was and it was outstanding.  I looked at his site and had to search for 10 minutes to find something that even got close to what his main selling points should be.

[Thor]

Oh come on , a few bad apples ?
It's more like 10%  to 30 %  are  scammers ,
 can't find a man where they are because they are messed up  in the head , just to name 2
that make up the high percent .

A few bad apples??????? Come one Kevin. The problem for this industry are like Rwind says the unhonest agency's like army of brides and so on. The word out there is that this FSU girls are only looking for money!! 2 days ago I sold a camera to a stranger. I told him that I was married to a Ukrainian girl, and he told me that he had been thinking of going to FSU by himself to find a girl. BUT, all his friend had said that this girls was scammers and golddigers......

There are not a few bad apples, there are a LOT of bad apples and there is very littel the honest agency's can do by that. To many men have been scammed, and the word spreads around. I guess that it is hard for a honest agency to convince men that they run as a honest agency. Beside this so maybe more and more men have seen that they can travel around and meet girls without using the agency's. This can be a good way to meet girls too.

[Rvrwind]

There are not a few bad apples, there are a LOT of bad apples

Finally!!! Something we agree on!!!

and there is very littel the honest agency's can do by that

There is with your help & the help of others who know better. Spread the good word. Steer them to honest agencies & honest guides, the more guys that have a good experience the more the word will spread & maybe in time will overshadow the "bad news".
One or two people cannot do it alone, it takes a concerted effort & cooperation from all those that know the truth to spread the truth & counteract the myths & bull that is out there.
You have a good heart Thor, its your delivery I question, nothing more! Put that energy to work counteracting the bad & promoting the good & the change will come. It takes time, patience & the will to move forward to accomplish it but above all it takes determination to do what is right!!

[Thor]

Finally!!! Something we agree on!!!There is with your help & the help of others who know better. Spread the good word. Steer them to honest agencies & honest guides, the more guys that have a good experience the more the word will spread & maybe in time will overshadow the "bad news".
One or two people cannot do it alone, it takes a concerted effort & cooperation from all those that know the truth to spread the truth & counteract the myths & bull that is out there.
You have a good heart Thor, its your delivery I question, nothing more! Put that energy to work counteracting the bad & promoting the good & the change will come. It takes time, patience & the will to move forward to accomplish it but above all it takes determination to do what is right!!

Rvrwind,

I think that we agree in most cases. You figth  against the scam in this industry and so do I. I now that many men has foundn sincere girls in agencys. And as you know there are many ways to find happines in FSU. I am in Kharkov now and allready from Riga I keep noticing all the hot FSU girls!! No wounder comes to FSU to look for a Bride . The best and most beautiful girls lives here!!!

[Rvrwind]

The best and most beautiful girls lives here!!!

Couldn't agree more Thor!!
Now if we can combine our efforts to rid this industry of the scammers & scam agencies then we will have accomplished a most noble goal!!