Asking for money

[whiskey187]

If you have met a girl in person in Ukraine, is it customary for her to ask for money after you come back home? I know that agencies consider women who ask for money scammers, but does this go for women you have already met. I am just not used to women who ask for money.

While I was in Kharkov, I paid the taxi for the ladies to go back home after we went out.

 

Todd

[Goombah]

Generally it depends on what they are asking money for.  If its just a flat "Can you send me $50/week" I'd be concerned.  If its "I'd like to get an international passport so we could go to Jamaica like we talked about" - I'd be a lot less concerned.

[Friends-In-Kiev]

Well paying for taxi is normal, but not $20 or something :-)

But if she asks for money is a good warning sign of not doing so and separate as soon as possible. It doesn't happen to ladies in our agency.

Evgeniy from Friends-in-Kiev.com

[LookingForRW]

Most experienced guys would say ,its a "red flag".In my experience "nice girls",DONT ask for money.I would be very skeptical of a lady I just met.I will bet $10 she was under 25 years. Go slow on this.giving $ this "early" in a relationship seems like a good idea ,but trust ,it generally isnt.

[Mamma D]

almost 60 years ago...my sweet American husband paid the taxi home when needed....

I know the fuss about feminism....are you expecting her to take care of herself... when it is expedient?

Just a reality check
Mamma D

[Muzh]

[user=23]whiskey187[/user] wrote:

While I was in Kharkov, I paid the taxi for the ladies to go back home after we went out.

 

Todd

 

Todd:

Are you still looking for scammers?  You met a lady in Kharkov and you came back and the first thing she did was ask for money???

First, if it bothers you so much, scratch her off your list.  Personally, if a woman I just dated asked me for money, she would get a polite "No thanks" and kept walking.  In the USA women that ask you for money on the "first date" are called prostitutes, aren't they?  So why even consider a woman, thousands of miles away, that asks you for money after a date or two?  Don't call her a scammer.  Don't call her.  Keep looking.  Geez.


Now, what is wrong with paying for the taxi?  Is this what you are referring to when you say they are asking for money?

[LookingForRW]

Moma,

Seriously, are you on some medication(s)?. I cant make  sense of your posts.

In country, sure pay for a taxi or whatever and after you meet a RW ,its your (the mans) problem as to how much he gives.

My advice is never to send $ before meeting.

[Donna_Pedro]

If you have met a girl in person in Ukraine, is it customary for her to ask for money after you come back home?

I guess, I have  replied to this  question  1000 times already.. I dont know whats customary. I would think you were supposed to offer  some support and see what happens. Its a good check of your relationship, and a natural one. Very often when money interfere into a relationship all  hidden flaws become visible.   A good solid relationship can not be harmed by money. It will only help you to develop more trust. If you have problems, or she is using you - it will  soon become visible. If a girl from Kherson asks for $100 a week - its a sign... If a girl from Kherson, who earns $80 says "no" to your offer to help her its a sign too. A different one.

[Friends-In-Kiev]

Donna Pedro you are very right here. Nothing more to add. As a Ukrainian I must say that it is not customary to ask for money - it is just shameless way to rip foreigners out of money. And you are right the lady who earns $80 and refuse to take from you is probably the most honest girl but be aware that there are many professionals who can tell you they are poor etc, etc, momma is ill - tell you she loves you from the first or second letter and when you tell her you  can help she refuses first and then after second or third time she says yes do help me or if you do not do ,this she makes up some very pitiful story about her grandmother or grandfather being ill or dying or mother ill or her etc, etc which makes you ask if you can help again, if you do not do this - her last chance is to ask for the money from her "beloved and the only one" .

So be aware of such scammers!

[Mamma D]

Unless I read wrong, this lady asked for Taxi fare home after a date....

I believe, a gentleman is obligated to take or send her home, and not on a bus.

You all talk of the *traditional* women....but you send mixed messages.

If you want a dependant women, then treat her that way.

You can even demand she walk 3 paces behind.... is this what you really want?
 
If you want an Independant lady, then you can expect her to take care of herself. But you will have to take it on her terms... Is this what you want?

The lady that is somewhere in the middle, will be the *BEST FRIEND* you all seek....you, doing everything you can (within reason) to make her happy...and she returning the devotion.

I do not believe that you trade back and forth as it suits you. Either you are a protector or not. Both of you have to know where you stand.

This is where the *getting to know you* letters, over time, will help to explore expectations.

Frank, I have had trouble trying to decide what is ment in some of your posts, so we are even

Mamma D

[Mamma D]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPs I did read wrong.....

Before you meet.....old rule...a little money for email.. NO MORE... small gifts perhaps.

Afer you meet. it will depend on how YOU feel....Trust your instincts!

[Donna_Pedro]

And you are right the lady who earns $80 and refuse to take from you is probably the most honest girl

 I guess you misunderstood. Its not a sign of honesty, IMHO. I can not give you the READY FORMULA, like "takes money = bad girl, refuses money = good girl", I am offering you a more complicated concept. Look at this -   A woman who can hardly make ends meet refuses  your kind  offer to help her financially. Why would she do it? Pride? May be. But  it takes a lot bigger step over one's pride to  put the  picture on the market along with thousands of other girls.  See, you (and many other men) say these types of women,   are the best. They know about it too.They know your opinion. Sometimes they simply give you what you want.I dont tell you this always true, I am telling you - consider this too.  I would say its  not a sign even.. but just a thing to think of. As I said - when money comes to your relationship it shows a lot of "hidden sceletons". Be reasonable and it may cost you  only a couple of hundred $$ to realy see the situation. Fair price, isnt it?  

[acrzybear]

Howdy all

Well alittle bit about myself I am a 35 year old never married male from California recently transplanted to Texas and I fell into this whole FSU bride thing by accident.    I didn't have any intentions of marrying much less any particular nationality and after five "free" translation of E-mails I paid an agency for translations services.  I am a skeptic by nature and was just enjoying learning about a new country and on my 34th birthday I promised myself I would be celebrating my 35th birthday in a foriegn country, but had no idea which one I wanted to visit. 

Well I started corresponding with one lady in particular and that was over two years ago.  When I arrived in Odessa in June 04 things started out OK, the agency and lady met me at Odessa airport and things went great for a couple of days.  I noticed that the agency had no set pricing system and kept trying to push their services on me, after refusing their services I was told that the lady no longer wished to see me (but of course they had other ladies to choose from).  Well I had determined that I would enjoy myself during my vacation and met other westerners at the Irish Pub (great place) and had a great time.   I was somewhat surprised at the amount of older men looking for that perfect docile companion (wife) 20, 30 and even 40 years their junior. These men would "power date" numerous woman in one day during their entire time there. 

I still felt that something was out of place with the lady I had been corresponding with (I'll call her Jane) and just wanted to get one last meeting to see if my gut instinct was correct (closure I guess).  I told the agency I would not use any of their services unless I met "Jane" one more time.  Well I was surprised at the amount of excuses they came up with why she was not available.  I made arrangements with another interpeter and paid the agency for 4 hours service and dismissed the translator.  Well my instincts were correct, "Jane" was mad at me for not calling her and the agency told her I was not interested in seeing her.  Well things improved a great deal from then on and spent as much time as we could together (not enough). 

 Some of the small things I noticed about Jane was she never asked for money and refused any assistance with cab fare (always took the bus). At one point she was angry with me because I spent 120.00 Hyvernia on dinner, she thought I was needlessly spending money to impress her.  Things were smoothed out when I explained that in the United States I would spend that much for a dinner half the quality of the Ukrainian restaurants.   

Jane was more concerned about me and made me go to a store with here and get needed supplys (water and such), but refused anything for herself or to take home to her daughter.  Interesting, after hearing all the horror stories about gold diggers and such that I found an independent lady that was not afraid to speak her mind and remain true to herself.  The final thing that convinced me about her sincerity is that when I was at Odessa airport I gave her my remaining Hyvernia (about $100.00 USD) she refused, I told her to buy some things for her daughter and some things for herself and she cried when I gave her the money. 

Well folks the trip to Odessa was very interesting and a learning experience ( the song "long strange trip" by Greatful Dead kept coming to mind).  Some days were better then others and over all I met some great people, had great experiences in Odessa.  I learned that I am not able to out drink a Russian or Finlander (that's 6 hours of my 35th birthday I'll never remember) and in general the city of Odessa leaves a lasting impression if you take the time to enjoy all the city has to offer.  Most of the Ukrainians I met were polite, and helpful, the food and service is excellent and if I was not walking everywhere I would have gained weight.  I am planning on returning to Odessa and Kiev for 4 weeks in June of 05 and see where things go.   

I guess it's a good thing I don't have many vices (occasional cigar), the calls to Ukraine can be a bit expensive over time but well worth it.  I have talked to several men that have married Ukrainian or Russian ladies and the common thread is more patience and understanding is needed on both parts and you have to make many  sacrifices to make things work.  

 It's amazing how many men think they can marry a lady (usually much younger) from FSU and think it will be a perfect world with the housewife cooking and cleaning.  I understand that a 20 year difference isn't a big deal and if two people care about each other then it doesn't matter, but trying to regain your youth by marrying a women 30+ years younger- that's pathic.   

 

Well that's my two cents (or three cents) worth, and some persons will disagree but the great thing about this site is we don't have to agree with each other and can still learn things.

 

Well folks that's all I have for now

  do svidaniya 

 

 

[cameraguy]

Todd,
After you got home, what did she need the money for?  -doug

[Friends-In-Kiev]

Hi [user=60]acrzybear[/user]!

You told an interesting story. I was reading it through and thought what would be at the end? I mean how did you end up with that lady? Do you still correspond? Do you call each other, or did you separate?

The agency thing is what I know all about it (you mentioned dishonest behaviour). My wife worked for some of such agencies(untill she found out they are cheating) even those american owned and talked to many girls who were treated like that - guys had no idea girls had had no idea what agencies did to just stuff their pockets. We have our own matchmaking club now (agency sounds so banal and with hegative meaning - do not like using this word) and heard many stories from girls who left the agencies now and stayed with us

[acrzybear]

Well

I am still writing/e-mailing/talking to the same lady I talked about in the posting.  I am planning on returning in June and spending the month there.  I will see how things go and will perhaps propose to her.  Alittle bit about her background is she is 2 years younger then I, she is a classicly trained (in one of the premier FSU universities) private music instructor, has a 9 year old daughter and is extremely beautiful.  I was amazed at the beauty of Ukrainian women when I first arrived there, but quickly learned that they pretty much walk everywhere they go and dress very fashionably and how well educated they are compared to the average AW. 

 There were some misunderstandings such as when I told her I own a truck and she thought I meant a lorry. I also learned that the perception of Police in the FSU countries is very different then the general perception in the U.S.  It took me awhile to explain that as a Sergeant I make decent money without being currupt and don't  beat folks up every day and put them in prison.  So far all of the major issues have been worked out with patience and tolerance of the different backgrounds.  So far in the 8 Years I've been in this profession I have ignored my "Spidey Sense/Gut instinct" twice and got into bad situations both times because I ignored it.

Some of the factors I have considered aside from the instincts are that she is not afraid to speak her mind (even though it might not be what I want to hear). She has been up front and honest with me, she was mad at me for not calling her, holding her hand or kissing her on the cheek when we met after the agencies attempt at goldigging.  The last thing is that during our entire time together she never once asked for money for anything and the only time she would accept money is when I wanted to purchase books for her daughter that she could not afford.   

Well there it is again, meant only to do a short reply and ended up with a novel of War & Peace.

 

 

 

[BC]

acrzybear,

Sounds like you have a great start.  Was just wondering though why the agency would play games like that.. I would guess if they knew you two had 'clicked' and had already took what they could from you, they likely wanted to be able to keep her 'active' for new clients.

Good point about being able to trust that 'spidey sense'.

Regarding the money issue I think you were right on track.  Being able to 'sense' when some help is needed/justified and being able to give in a manner that does not make her feel bad for accepting is important.

Look forward to hearing how things turn out for you.  You might want to consider starting a thread in the trip section to keep it from getting mixed up and lost in other topics.  Sounds like the beginning of a classic..

The Bear brings up a good point. Do not trust a local agency to be your point of contact after the first date. They set up the first meeting and then it's up to you. Make sure that you have a way to contact the ladies that you meet after you part.

Many agencies are not above spreading misinformation (both ways) so that you two do not get back together and they can provide you with more of their services. Been there...Done that!

If you feel that you might want to see this lady again, discuss how you can contact her before you part ways that first date. This can also give you some insight as to her feelings regarding seeing you again.   

Don't panic if she tells you that she doesn't have a phone (many don't) just give her the phone number of your flat/hotel. I would shy away from giving out your cell number as that can lead to embarassing calls during other dates.

 

 

[acrzybear]

I was curious as to why an agency would not want their clients to connect, Well I was talking to an experienced man over a beer at the Irish Pub and he explained to me this way.  The smaller agencies want to keep the good looking ladies on their web as long as possible so guys will see the photo and travel to Ukraine and spend money using their services.  So if an agency plays their cards right they can get keep getting money from one persons profile.  I also found out that "Jane" had only been receiving  about one out of every three letters I had written, the agency responded to the rest.  This explained the different writing tempo and styles in the letters I recieved.  Now we write to each other using our personal e-mail addresses using one of the free online translators.  It's not the perfect solution and I would not recommend using the free translation for legal documents, but for regular letters they're fine.  My understanding of the Russian language structure and way of thinking has improved a great deal and my formating has improved since things are different from English (American English not the Queen's English).

 If someone was traveling for the first time I would highly recomend having a back up plan due the the amount of dishonest agencies and way of thinking. 

 

Once again just my two cents worth

 

[Jack]

bear, your 2 cents worth is probably worth about a million dollars.

[Doug Salem]

Todd,

No. it's not right for her to ask you for money either before or after you have met in person. If she gets any money from you, it should be because you volunteered it - say to help subsidize her cost of corresponding with you (acceptable before you have met in person), or for an English tutor (acceptable after you have met and are proceeding with a K-1).

And Fuzzy Bear is right about the agencies. Many of them continued to run my wife, Olga's photo and profile long after she was married in the West and despite her many requests to them to remove it. Why? Because she was a big draw. The only reason they finally take them down is because guys start complaining they wrote to the girl, or called the girl, and the girl's Mom blathered something at them in broken English like "Natasha no home! Natasha go Ameerika! Have leetle beebee! Gude Buy!"

Cut the agency out of the loop as soon as you have made initial contact with the women. And again, as Fuzzy Bear points out, don't use agency email to communicate with the ladies. In fact, the best way to establish "secure" communications with a Russian woman is to buy her snail mail address and send a snail mail letter directly to her apartment through regular mail. Tell her you are wary of "middlemen" and, if she is interested in you, you want to work out a satisfactory and SECURE line of communication with her. Tell her to email you ONLY if she has her own private email box on her own private computer. Include two International Postal coupons in your snail mail letter so she can snail mail you back with her telephone number if she doesn't have private email.  You can work out a secure email system using an independent "electronic post office" service (like GoEastNow) even if she doesn't have email.

The only thing I don't agree with Fuzzy Bear on is the electronic translations. Wait'll she really learns English, Fuzzy. You will find there were a lot of things you thought you understood about each other, but you really didn't. Of course, because of the K-1 (or even K-3) process, you won't figure that out until it's too late. Good, solid, clear communication is everything. And even if you do better than 90% of the guys in the swim and achieve that, you will still have huge cultural differences to work out. The big difference being that if you get a lot of good communication under the bridge up front, your chances of working out the cultural bugs at the tail end are much better.

(You don't even get a chance to work out the cultural bugs until you are living together in the West. And they don't really start to surface until after the 90-day K-1 period, i.e. after the marriage.)

But if you did not have lots of good, solid, clear communication up front, trying to ford both the communication issue AND the cultural issue both at the same time, and both at the tail end, sweeps most guys away and down into the rapids.

- Doug S.

www.goeastnow.com 

 

 

[acrzybear]

I presume you meant acrzybear and not fuzzybear?  I appreciate the input and I do agree that the free internet translation is not perfect and there are some instances where there are misunderstandings.  One of the things that has worked for us is if we were not sure or did not understand we would ask questions of each other.

Again I can not stress that if you are conversing or writing PATIANCE is the best asset a couple can have with each other, especially when dealing with two different cultures and languages.  I would not recommend using the free internet translation unless a foundation had been set in the relationship, and both parties are not afraid to ask questions.

Each relationship and every individual is different, and I do not have the experience some of the members of this BB have when dealing with women from the FSU states and I have never been married (to busy with my career).  I've been to Odessa and I have talked to ladies working in the oldest profession to normal office workers and have learned something from each and every one.   

 

 

[Doug Salem]

Yes, please excuse my mistake - Crazy not Fuzzy. Was he?

[whiskey187]

Let me explain what happened. I corresponded with a girl who is 18 and I am 29. She was nice at first, we spoke on the phone every Sunday through a friend/interpretor, and then I met her from the end of Dec. to the beginning of January. While I was there everything seemed fine, but she really couldn't spend evenings with me because she said she had to study for her finals. Also, she would always call the interpretor to tell him to met her at different places , send me sms's , and invited me to eat with her family on the last day, and she saw me off when I took a bus from Kharkov to Kiev. She psent the last day with me almost the whole day.

 

She signed all of the forms, gave me a piece of paper that I wrote stating that she had the intent to marry me, and let me take lots of pictures with me and her with her family. But, when I got back to the U.S., she became very demanding. She wanted me to send her money for a dress suit. What made me mad is that she said she was going to send me a copy of her passport because I was told that I would need it. She blackmailed me that if I didn't send her $70 she wouldn't send me the passport copy. So, I am furious.  

[whiskey187]

No, I agreed to pay for the taxi. I don't have a problem with this at all. What I meant about this is that I just didn't expect it. But, I am fine about it.

I didn't like being blackmailed that if I didn't send her $70 for a dress suit, then I wouldn't get the passport copy. Also, Ukrainian women and Russian women are much poorer than American women. Also, every American woman I have dated owns a car. Not one of these women owned her own car. Also, these women were nice, but the one I was getting ready to marry just turned to be immature, a liar, and a golddigger. I went to the girl's house and she was so poor that even the Ukrainian interpretor called her apartment a dump. Also, I thought that I could trust her because evrything was ok.

 

Todd