I MADE THE WRONG CHOICE

[Gator]

This updates those who have followed some of my 5-year history with RW. 

You may remember my thread last fall on my quandary in choosing between two women.  I thought I had found a wonderful future wife in my Cossack.  Well, I made the wrong choice.  After one year together (and six meetings totaling 80 days together), it became evident that marriage would be a mistake. 

The parting was mutual.  In fact, she initiated it.  She has had a change of heart before, yet I calmed her.  This time I gave up.   

Her reasons were the same – she is responsible for her two children, she does not understand America, she can not work in America and will feel isolated, and she does not trust that I will provide for her if she marries me and comes to America.   Ironically, my life history is that of financial security, loyalty, generosity, and family – exactly the antithesis of what she fears.   Further, I was very dedicated to her and her children – two fantastic kids and who liked me. 

My guess is that this is a misunderstanding compounded by other factors.  Her reasoning may seem inexplicable to me, yet I realize that perception to women is far more important than reality. 

So where did it go wrong?

Her English is weak.  A long running RWD topic has discussed “Overcoming the language barrier.”  While that thread focused on not understanding the woman, the barrier works equally in a woman not understanding the man.  Perhaps she was also feeling that she would be isolated.  However, while language barrier contributed to our breakup, much more was at work.  What weight one would assign to each of the following factors is a complete guess:

1.   Past betrayal by men.  She has been married three times to Russian men, and each ended badly within a few years, twice with a nursing baby in her arms.  This has prompted mistrust of men and a need for self-reliance.
2.   A successful career in modeling (14 years) and other ventures.  She has for a long time provided for her family by herself.  She can continue to do so.
3.   She has choices.  She is very beautiful, and even though she is turning 42 in a few weeks, she has many Russian admirers who may not make the best husband but sure do know how to make a great boyfriend with gifts of jewelry, car, etc.
4.   She has wild emotional swings from high to low.  In her down moods, which can last 3-4 days, she is very pessimistic.  She will assume the worst even though it has a low probability – her health, whether I will meet her at the airport, etc. 
5.   She is romantic and not always in touch with reality.
6.   Only one of her friends from her city said she should go to America, many commenting “how can you believe it is true”, “your family, friends and home are here”.  Another friend who is familiar with America said go for your children's future as well as for yourself.
7.   Learning English was not easy for her.

Another factor that contributed to our parting is that while we share many common interests, our personality styles differ:

a.   Energy - I have more energy and enjoy more active pursuits.  She complained vehemently when I compelled her to climb towers and cathedrals in Italy, walked along the steep roads in towns of the Amalfi coast, take dusty trails to hilltribe village in Laos, etc.  Yes, 460 narrow steps in a cramped spiraling corridor is demanding; however, the view of Florence from 350 feet  is incredible, during the climb one can see up close the frescoes on the dome, and she is 20+ years younger than me. 

b.   Intellectual curiosity – When traveling I am always studying the countryside and the people; she will nap.  In museums, she is usually ready to move on before me with the words “Go”.   At restaurants, she seemingly eats without contemplating the foods and their preparation.  While we both enjoyed an opera night in Rome, a few nights later while flipping through the TV channels she saw Chuck Norris and said “Good actor.”  She is not stupid, as she will read Russian detective novels quickly.  Yet, her interest in more profound subjects is not keen.

c.   Humor – Little overlap between us.  Mainly laughing at the antics of her young son or a comic in a show.

d.   Moods -  I am invariably optimistic.  In the rare times that I do become depressed, it will last briefly, an hour or two.   She would stay in a depressed mood for 3-5 days.  Life is too short for that, and my efforts to uplift her usually failed. 

e.   Style of man - She likes more serious men, while I am enthusiastic and can be playful.  If I had endured the difficulties of living in Russia versus a successful life, I would perhaps be stoic (on second thought, nah).  I do differ from the three men she married - I am highly educated, they were not.  I wrote an acclaimed textbook for advanced university studies.   I operated a successful, professional business; they were “wheeler dealers”.  One was half-gypsy (and a clever criminal, something she learned after marriage), a clue that she may be attracted to “bad boys” even though she claims to seek good family relations.     


This ending perplexes me.  She is fairly honest, if not brutally so, so I believe her when she asserted that age difference had nothing to do with it.  In fact, it was obvious in the beginning that she was physically attracted to me.  Sex was fantastic although she was a bit more egotistic, demanding and frequent than I prefer.   Thus, in the end I was unable to win her heart with my deeds and personality.   I probably should have seen this coming, but more on that later. 

[SANDRO43]

Oy PB, glad to see you survived the ordeal(s) and got safely back. Received the photo ?

[Totoro]

Hi Gator,
sorry to hear about what happened... I'm still in the pre-dating stage, so I haven't experienced any such things yet. Just a quick comment...

along the steep roads in towns of the Amalfi coast, take dusty trails to hilltribe village

That is where I live (in Salerno, not far from Amalfi. In fact, I usually go there during summer). So, if you or anyone else from the board are ever here (alone, or with a beautiful RWD ^_^) you may drop me a line, I'd be glad to meet for a drink and a talk.
Good luck for the future, man!

BTW... I've just been contacted by a lady on Elena's who, on her profile, has a picture of herself riding a crocodile! Thought it could be interesting to a Gator... ^_^

[Daveman]

Welcome back Gator...  I'm very sorry to hear of this turn of events.  I'm very interested in reading your further insights and revelations on this trip.

I hope otherwise you at least had an enjoyable adventure.  Again, sorry for the eventual outcome.

Dave

[Gator]

After dropping the Cossack off at the airport 10 hours ahead of her flight and taking one hour to instruct her on where to go and when, Sandro and I met at my hotel.

Sandro, Yes I did receive the photo (see below). Thank you for the photo, tour the Milan countryside, and the delightful evening of good food, drink and conversation.  Because in five hours we did not yet reach your divorce,  I will need to return (or you come to Florida).

Found some Gavi in my neighborhood wine store, but not Gavi di Gavi.  Principessa Gavia is the bottler.  Seems light in color and only 12% alcohol.  At $11, probably not the same as you and I enjoyed.

[Gator]

Totora,

Thanks man!  We were in Positano and Capri.  Fabulous!  And expensive.  I suppose you would know where to go to avoid the tourist prices.  I wish I had known you lived there because at that time the Cossack and I were on fairly good terms and she would have been a delight.

I will post a photo of your country.  My biggest problem from this ordeal is finding photos with just me in it.  So with that comment, you can realize that I am not sad, just disappointed.  Lesson for the newbies - if there is an interesting place which you wish to remember in photo, have the RW take a photo of you (rather than take one of her).

[tim 360]

Gator, from your initial analysis of your relationship above it is probably best the way it worked out the way it did.  And it does really take some real face-time to know ones future spouse which you had the wisdom to do.  Language is a big hurdle to overcome for anyone to function in a new country with a new language.  Without the common language a person will become alienated and go through a variety of emotional displays.  I salute your patience and your level-headed thinking, Cheers, tim360

[SANDRO43]

Because in five hours we did not yet reach your divorce,  I will need to return (or you come to Florida).

Tsk, tsk, inattentive or forgetful, I covered that at your hotel shortly after first meeting, but I can give you another, heavier dose of it at the next opportunity .

Found some Gavi in my neighborhood wine store, but not Gavi di Gavi.  Principessa Gavia is the bottler.  Seems light in color and only 12% alcohol.  At $11, probably not the same as you and I enjoyed.

Italian restaurants charge rather heavily for wines, compared to shop prices. Apparently, what you got is Cortese di Gavi, usually lighter than Gavi di Gavi, but your US/Italian producer looks good enough:
http://www.vigneregali.com/
Here are a few reviews:
http://www.banfivintners.com/show/xmlsite/xml-standard.xml/xsl-banfivintners%252Freviews.xsl/start_id-eblkaompdcldmplpjnfmcndokbdcbclacbgmemha/

[Sohkay]

Hello Gator,

Welcome back.

How does it feel to be home?

When did you arrive?

[catzenmouse]

Gator,

 Also sorry to hear that this did not work out. As Tim mentioned, in the end it is probably for the best to have it happen now rather than a couple of years from now after a marriage.

 Glad that you made it home in one piece and welcome back to the board!

Ken

[Leslie]

Phil,

Sorry this relationship did not work out but I reckon you both enjoyed the ride...

One comment from your analysis stood out for me -

"she can not work in America and will feel isolated, and she does not trust that I will provide for her if she marries me and comes to America. "

Learning English later in life is also not so easy and the majority of Russian men of your age are pushing up the daisies...

I mean no offence but maybe it is better this way.  I wish you the best of luck finding a new girlfriend 

[ScottinCrimea]

Phil,

Thanks for the post with the update, the insights and the advice.  I imagine as these differences presented themselves one by one you thought that each one in and of itself was not a deal breaker or could be overcome.  What it seems you finally did, and which many fail to do, is to look at all of the questionable areas together as one big picture.  It's often difficult to step back like that and look at the big picture, expecially where beauty and/or emotions are involved.

Don't give up.  You have a lot to offer and I have no doubt that you will find everything you desire and more.  In the meantime, next time you want to go to Itlay, give me a call.  I'm high energy, I don't complain and I don't get depressed.  Heck, at your age it probably wouldn't hurt to have a doctor along anyway. 

[Mir]

I'm high energy, I don't complain and I don't get depressed

And I bet you are also a 'bit less egotistic, demanding and frequent' as well

[DKMM]

Gator holy hell man, you did NOT make the wrong choice!  That other girl you chose the cossack over would have probably screwed up your life one way or another so this was definitely not the wrong choice (if the only choice was between these two women).

Reading through your list has sure made me think a lot about what I'm doing.  Especially the "a-e" list, it really makes me glad I found who I did.  Once again thanks for sharing your perspective on these matters.

You gave it your best shot and it didn't work out.  Success comes to the daring.  She is the one with the problem, and that obviously lies in being able to trust someone enough to rely on them.  Not the only RW to have issues with that...

I hope you can get over this and find mrs right.

Fors juvat audentes

[Kuna]

Gator,

I'm really sorry to hear your trip ended as it did.  You're level headed and patient and I admire you for your approach and tenacity.  All the best as your search continues.

Kuna

[Momus]

Hi Gator,

I'm very sorry to hear that it didn't work out. Don't be so sure that you didn't make the "right choice." Sometimes the right choice at the time doesn't have the outcome that we anticipated. That doesn't mean it was the wrong choice when you had to make it.

It sounds like you have a very good handle on the situation. At the end of the day, (a) through (e) suggest that you simply weren't very compatible, and that you're going to be better off this way.

I will echo one thing that Leslie said, and like him, I mean no offense. In fact, my personal view is that you're one of the more grounded, self-aware, and intelligent guys involved in this pursuit. But...

(You knew there'd be a "but"!)

She's 42 and you're 20+ years older. She may think you're the sexiest devil she's ever met, and still have misgivings about her future with you. I hope you live to be a hundred, brother, and that you're still climbing cathedral steps and hiking dusty trails when you finally cash it in. But I'm also not surprised that a 42-year-old Russian woman decided not to stake her future on that.

Someone get the clue bat, because what I'm about to say is probably crazy...

I understand why you wouldn't want to go hunting on the other side of the world for a woman close to your age. It gives the AD contingent apoplexy, but I don't really care. When women start favoring poor men, we can revisit our attraction to younger women.

That said (gulp) is it possible that you should maybe look for a woman who is a little younger? This woman is 42, and as far as dating and marriage go, she's pretty much at the last station on the line. It ain't fair, but that's the way it is far more often than not.

If you check out in 5 or 10 years (God forbid!), she's in her late 40s, early 50s, living in a foreign country, and can look forward to...what exactly, for the next 20 or 30 years? You may leave her financially secure and comfortable, but your estate isn't going to keep her bed warm or hold her when she's feeling down for the next two or three decades.

Find a woman five or 10 years younger, and now you're not her last stop on the line in the worst-case scenario. The point is, she knows that and I'd expect her to be a bit more secure about a future with you as a result.

I'll leave it at that, and I'm probaby going to be burned alive as it is. It goes without saying that you improve your chances if you stick close to your own age. But assuming you're not going to do that, this might be something to think about.

[I/O]

you can realize that I am not sad, just disappointed. 

Gator: It is always a pitty when something nice ends. I'll avoid the "Naval Gazing" other than to say I understand clearly the comment you made above.

I/O

[Simoni]

Gator:  Sorry to hear things did not end well with the Cossack.

Take some time off, and be good to yourself.

All good wishes,

~Simoni

[Lily]

Gator,

I join others in my sympathies..

You showed a long list of things that went wrong. Did you notice any signs of those bad things earlier? Some of her qualities probably could not be discovered that suddenly.

As Momus said, may be you could expand your search into a more aged category? Yes the beautiful and nice women are rare in this category, but perhaps the reward is worth the efforts. Look at Pike's thread. Probably there is also one clever and brave Leni Riefenstahl out there for you

Also, as Totoro mentioned, I'd definitely check out that woman riding on crocodile!   

[Jazzyclassy]

Dear Gator

everything will be OK never worry , you are very wise and kind , generous person .We all wish you all the very best and appreciate your opinion so much

You were so good with this Cossack woman  never go for younger girls as some crazy people are advising you, believe me you will be so happy in the future with your age woman I am sure! You sill got so much time ahead!

The main thing remember you always got your family , your sons they will never ever leave you:)

Warm hugs to you

[Mir]

Lily

Actually Momus advised him to look for younger women

[Lily]

That said (gulp) is it possible that you should maybe look for a woman who is a little younger? 

Mir, may be you are right..In fact, in this line I understand that Momus meant 'a little younger than Gator', and not ' a little younger than his girlfriend'.

Sorry for this misunderstanding...but anyway, my point remains the same 

[Lily]

When women start favoring poor men, we can revisit our attraction to younger women.
 

Sorry for off-topic, but may I respectfully disagree with this.

I think that women are attracted not to the wealth but to the qualities that make a man rich. A poor man in the West has often made his choice to stay poor. No way can such a man be in favor.
Talent and perseverance are rewarded not only by money but also by affection of women. Women and money are both attracted by the same qualities in men.

I guess you probably meant it 'when woman cease favoring wealth in a man'. Then it would make more sense IMHO. And there are women who comply with this.

The second part of the line seems to be very unlikely. By saying 'we can revisit our attraction to younger women', are you saying that you can tell your instincts what woman to desire? Do I get you right that you can love a good-hearted, kind but older woman just because she really deserves being loved and will always stand by your side at good and bad times?

I wish it would be true, but it isn't. Our instincts can not stand any orders. Men want slim, curvy, joyfull, eager women with healthy looks and smooth skin. Those things are often delivered by youth. I think men choose the product and not the provider.

Hence I doubt it that men would ever revisit their preference.

[Momus]

I think that women are attracted not to the wealth but to the qualities that make a man rich.

Likewise, men aren't really attracted to youth, but to the qualities that typically correspond with youth.

In any case, my point is that men like what men like, always have, and there are reasons for it. Same with women. My view is that women criticizing men for their attraction to young women (or "youthful qualities," if you prefer) is like criticizing them for being hairy. In both cases, you're probably better off saving your breath and grabbing a razor. 

FWIW, I think we're more or less in agreement, despite the miscommunication.

[Mir]

Lily

Good Post

Momus

Your assessment of male preferences may be true but is nothing to be proud of