I MADE THE WRONG CHOICE

[Mir]

Gator

I know you might not want to talk about it but lot of contradictions keep popping up.
You say that you gave her monthly support and at the same time you say that she was making good money?
Your relationship was exclusive, yet she was being offered Audi cars? It makes no sense to me.

Lily

If what you say is true then this lady would have no Russian man chasing her, let alone a rich Russian man.

[Lily]

If what you say is true then this lady would have no Russian man chasing her, let alone a rich Russian man.

I was saying the general rule only, that I could observe among people and what I have heard from others and read in available sources. Additionally i noticed that this point has been supported by majority of Russian people. 

Sure, the exceptions from the rule are possible, as described by Scott. You know that many rules allow some exceptions.

Scott, not sure i could answer your question. Afraid I did not get the 2 options... 

[Simoni]

I really can't totally agree with this.  We have one friend who is 41 years old and who would be a great catch for anyone. 

Would be a great catch for someone?  As in she has no one now?

I think that was Lilly's point....FSU men want the 20 something old girls, too.

My ex russian gf told me the same....and that's why she was determined to get married by age 30.  You are "old" after about age 32.

Scott....I don't disagree that your 41 year old friend would be a great catch for someone.  But most men are blind and look younger first....

[Gator]

Lilly,

I am glad that you said "rare exceptions".  Is it really that rare?  You and many, many other RW have told me the same.

My ex-fiancee says the same, except she says 30 is the cutoff for unmarried men.  She added that there are plenty of married men willing to play.   

Yes, I have heard a 100 times about the RM’s fixation on youth (as if none of us are so inclined).  Perhaps these men enjoy being a mentor, because other than that and physical fulfillment, the relationship is empty.   Been there, done that – it is a very superficial.

There must be some RM who understand the happiness of a relationship involving "mind and spirit" as well as "body."   Companionship and friendship are so important.  Maybe such men are not at the bars or wherever most RW go to meet RM.

[Gator]

Mir,

The world is not black and white.  It is gray.  You need to think with more creativity.  When something seems contradictory, you should ponder about the possible circumstances that would explain the incongruity. 

Support – We met in January 2006.  She stopped working in January 2007 so that we could spend more time together, she could learn English, etc.  Of course I supported her after January 2007.   She can work again.

Exclusive – I said she had many past boyfriends, one in particular who has plenty of laundered money.  Perhaps he knew what he lost, and he wanted her back.   If it is him, and knowing what I know, the fact that she would consider such a lowlife reveals a disturbing side of her true self, a darkside.   But I don’t know and don’t care.

[Lily]

Lilly,

I am glad that you said "rare exceptions".  Is it really that rare?  You and many, many other RW have told me the same.

My ex-fiancee says the same, except she says 30 is the cutoff for unmarried men.  She added that there are plenty of married men willing to play.   

Yes, I have heard a 100 times about the RM’s fixation on youth (as if none of us are so inclined).  Perhaps these men enjoy being a mentor, because other than that and physical fulfillment, the relationship is empty.   Been there, done that – it is a very superficial.

There must be some RM who understand the happiness of a relationship involving "mind and spirit" as well as "body."   Companionship and friendship are so important.  Maybe such men are not at the bars or wherever most RW go to meet RM.

I really can not estimate how rare those exceptions are...but I am sure the fixation on youth prevails among RM.

Sure many RM understands and appreciates the 'mind, spirit and body' relationships but the latter component is still important. It is more rare among the aged women than among the younger ones.

Bars are hardly a meeting scene in the FSU, although I may be mot quite in line with latest trends.

[DKMM]

There is little worse than finding out someone you love has a previously hidden darkside.  At least you didn't find this out after you got hitched Gator.  Your story is sounding a lot like my try with a RW model.  Forget they are not nearly worth the trouble.

[wiz]

Zhena

English is really important, guys, don’t ignore this-you may be surprised when your woman learns it finally-you may not recognize her personality. Many guys fall in illusions and wear pink glasses during the period of dreaming about the future life with a wonderful woman they have found. Many of them DONT WANT to notice all these small details, which can cause  serious problems in the future. Partly because they didn’t have an experience yet, but even those with the experience... 

The men don’t want to give more time to get to know their woman better. They don’t want to know many important details about her life. After all, they want to close the eyes and don’t notice all those red flags to say...

This is an excellent advice and everybody who is pursuing the dream in finding an FSU woman should take notice, including Gator. It has always been one of my main requirements, in my profile.


Gator

I am sorry to hear the end of your relationship with the Cossack woman, coming back from my travels.

This is an excellent post covering so many important subjects and a very good source of information for everybody.

Like somebody else said before moving on it would be a good idea to test the Moscow woman again but have also a back up plan.

In my last trip to Russia during 20 May – 5 June, I met again Olga from Tula, the first woman I met in my “Dilemma”, before choosing Sofia and in 24 hours cleared my nagging doubts and rediscovered the same reasons why I did not chosen her and now I feel much happier about it.

Gator, like you, I was very attached to Sofia’s young son, still feel very close to him and that made me very sad, when I finished with her. Apart from his tears when I was leaving the house, I was told from friends that, he still gives her a hard time for her behaviour towards me and keeps asking her when I am coming back?

 
Jazzy

Thank you for your nice messages and I am sorry that twice going through Moscow I did not find the time to meet you, flight schedules were very tight and I apologise for that.

[Jazzyclassy]

 

       
Jazzy

Thank you for your nice messages and I am sorry that twice going through Moscow I did not find the time to meet you             

Oh dear Wiz never worry it is all good Moscow it is not Africa or something , there will be times to meet up with you , me and my boy would gladly chat with you somewhere in the cafe:)

So nice that everything is well with you:)

Sorry dear  Gator for doing this kinda crazy messages here:)

[Maxx2]

Sorry to hear about this Gator.

I was reading your incompatability list and seen that most of it was similar to my ex's. Three ex-husbands with 3 divorces in 4 1/2 year period of time*. Not wanting to talk about it with a "the past is the past and should be forgotten" as an explanation. Funny this coming from a "psychologist". Lack of energy when around me. No interest in people. Not wishing to discuss deeper issues. I remember mentioning this last one 4 years ago and you said it was the biggest Red flag of all. I am surprised you let this relationship go as far as you did.

CaptB and jb are so right. The right RW has to be really into you and not just sweet, caring and affectionate. When they are in love with you you know it or so I am told.

Maxx

* I was told about the 2 extra ex's after our marriage in Russia. This was my biggest Red flag. 

[CaptB]

The Doctor I was seeing in Russia..........also let me know about another marriage she had under her the first evening we met......face to face. In hindsight.......I know she kept it from me.........maybe fearing that I would change my mind about visiting. I told her point-blank.....we had long.....almost daily conversations about our lives. To keep something like this to herself.......after giving me the impression that all such things had been discussed....was completely unacceptable. Of course she played the victim.......and headed for the door. I asked her to please come sit down.......and let me finish my thoughts. If she still wanted to leave afterwords.......I would understand. I told her that I understood....especially during Soviet times......that different levels of honesty prevailed.....as a mechanism of self-preservation. BUT........between a man and a woman.....there should not be "shades"....................only yes.......or no (yes...yes....I am a hipocrite...........we all tell those "white lies'................mainly to spare feelings.)

I got the impression......in that relationship......that the Doc thought an American man would be pretty easy to control......"on a leash". I think I was a great disappointment in that respect. At the end of the second visit.......I knew it would be my last. I could have cut the trip short on the fifth day of a three week trip.......and incorporated a "back-up plan".......but we were visting several interesting cities.........and I wanted my vacation. Glad I stuck with it. I visted the wonderful city of Samara (nice beach)......and met alot of wonderful Russian people......most of whom were relatives of the "Doc".

If I had "walked on egg shells"..........unwilling to say what was "really" on my mind.......I could have wasted several more trips. I think this process is just too costly (money, time, emotions)......to beat around the bush. If you are serious.......and the woman is serious......I think such bluntness will be mutually accepted.....and understood. My "wife" and I had no problem laying out all cards.....even before my first visit. There was no BS.......no questionable behavior......no red....or even pink....flags. We became a couple......the day we actually met.........we just did'nt really think about it at the time.......being together like good friends first........and gradually more.......later.

If you can't ask serious questions.....without offense......or without excuses.......and skirting issues...........................walk. I want a partner........I don't want to play psychologist with someone with a long list of issues.........that may never get fixed. This process is not easy sometimes even with relatively "normal" human beings.

I think in Bucky's case......less "trips".......more at-home (her city) time......going to a museum......the occaisional movie......and dinner-out........and "not" everyday.......might have yielded the same results........in much less time. Maybe its just me.......but I want a woman who can enjoy simple.....everyday things...............with "me". I think "all" woman can enjoy the "premium extras".................but life has no guarantees......that such things will always be available. If she is really into you.......she will enjoy doing "anything". If you don't try it out.......you will never "really" know.


Capt B

[wiz]

The Doctor I was seeing in Russia..........BUT........between a man and a woman.....there should not be "shades"....................only yes.......or no (yes...yes....I am a hipocrite...........we all tell those "white lies'................mainly to spare feelings.)

I got the impression......in that relationship......that the Doc thought an American man would be pretty easy to control......"on a leash". I think I was a great disappointment in that respect.

If I had "walked on egg shells"..........unwilling to say what was "really" on my mind....... I think this process is just too costly (money, time, emotions)......to beat around the bush. If you are serious.......and the woman is serious......I think such bluntness will be mutually accepted.....and understood.

If you can't ask serious questions.....without offense......or without excuses.......and skirting issues...........................walk. I want a partner........I don't want to play psychologist with someone with a long list of issues.........that may never get fixed. This process is not easy sometimes even with relatively "normal" human beings.

I think in Bucky's case......less "trips".......more at-home (her city) time......going to a museum......the occaisional movie......and dinner-out........and "not" everyday.......might have yielded the same results........in much less time. Maybe its just me.......but I want a woman who can enjoy simple.....everyday things...............with "me". I think "all" woman can enjoy the "premium extras".................but life has no guarantees......that such things will always be available. If she is really into you.......she will enjoy doing "anything". If you don't try it out.......you will never "really" know.

Capt B

I know it wasn't the same Doctor that I met  LOL......... but so many similarities and so many truths in your comments, which at the time decided to ignore but not the last time I met her and now we are history! She now continues chasing rainbows on the internet..... and I have already met some nice women!

Reading your comments I see I was not the only one thinking on those lines and despite making many mistakes FINNALLY went on the right road.....and I feel much happier now.

[Daveman]

CaptB and jb are so right. The right RW has to be really into you and not just sweet, caring and affectionate. When they are in love with you you know it or so I am told.

My favorite quote on this topic is from Groov.. okay so it's not a quote because I can't remember it verbatim, but paraphrased... "don't even consider staying in a relationship with a women who is not CRAZY about you"...

[Gator]

Daveman,

Yes, no man should stay with a woman who is indifferent.  Yet "crazy"?   I enjoy moments of affection, and I considered myself warm, yet I do not like being smothered. 

The Cossack gave me as much affection as I wanted and needed.  She picked the lint off of my clothes.  She was a giver.  Sex was certainly not a problem, and in fact...Any more attention and it would approach smothering.  It was a fabulous trip, once in a lifetime, but it is over.

[Daveman]

Daveman,

Yes, no man should stay with a woman who is indifferent.  Yet "crazy"?   I enjoy moments of affection, and I considered myself warm, yet I do not like being smothered. 

The Cossack gave me as much affection as I wanted and needed.  She picked the lint off of my clothes.  She was a giver.  Sex was certainly not a problem, and in fact...Any more attention and it would approach smothering.  It was a fabulous trip, once in a lifetime, but it is over.

Gator, I really don't think he meant smothering crazy... but just "a woman in love" crazy.  I agree with you completely about the smothering.  Only you know the full story of your situation, and your assessment and logic seems clear. 

My comment was not in reference to your experience specifically, sorry for the miscommunication... it was reiterating a point to those who are currently reading and wondering why their women don't seem to be quite what they expected.

[Gator]

Daveman wrote,

reiterating a point to those who are currently reading and wondering why their women don't seem to be quite what they expected.

Many times the answer is, "the man is not quite what she expected."  Women have a vote too.

[SANDRO43]

She picked the lint off of my clothes.

Phil, I wonder if that should be interpreted as a sign of affection, or rather as not wanting to be seen in the company of a man with less than spotless clothing, considering her previous occupation in the  fashion world ??? ???

[Daveman]

Many times the answer is, "the man is not quite what she expected."  Women have a vote too.

Absolutely they have a vote, or a 'strike' if preferred.  About the previous comment concerning crazy.. Maybe a combination of thoughts and wording...

She's unaffectionate. Why? She doesn't care... Why?  could be she's up to something, or, maybe he's just not what she expected..

[Maxx2]

Gator, I am going to cut through the cr@p around here and get straight to the point. You extended this relationship because she was beautiful and highly sexual. You are an intellegent man but it just goes to show you that a pretty face and some sexy moves trumps all reason. If she hadn't chose the guy that was willing to anti-up more goods than you you would still have her in play. Damn it man haven't you figured it out yet?! The Cossack was just another Elvira!


Maxx: the original

[wiz]

Sorry Gator but JB's comment to "Mirror", on 04 April 2007, comes to mind;

JB

*Bigger Better Deal*

Obviously you were not prepared and I do not blame you for not doing so, I would have done the same, to play that game.

How else you could discover her real feelings for you?

[Gator]

Maxx, I will comment partly to defend her and myself, and to help other men who can not distinguish between an Elvira and a Cossack.

You extended this relationship because she was beautiful and highly sexual.

Gator/Bucky would never fall for this limited combination (other than for a weekend  ).  Such women are not a dime a dozen, but there are many.  To interest me, a woman needs more, much more, and the Cossack has an abundant supply of “more” (as I wrote much earlier).

The Cossack was just another Elvira!

Your Elvira was completely dishonest, shameless, and heartless.  Please name one important personality trait of hers that you would want in a woman of your dreams.

The Cossack has a bit of a darkside, yet she is fundamentally honest (there were many opportunities for her to benefit from dishonesty and she did not). She has a huge heart, albeit her heart had defensive walls built around it from past relationships.  And she felt remorse.

Would Elvira ever walk through a remote, somewhat dirty village and pick up little children and puppy dogs just to hug (see photos)?

The Cossack moved on because she had trouble learning English, felt frightened of adjusting to America, mistrusts all men and will not give a man the benefit of any doubt, equated a man’s dedication to what he spent on her (a trait of many RW), preferred the “serious” style of Russian men, and some other aspects.   The largest factor – she did not develop enough love for me to compensate for the above. 

In the past, I was always able to becalm her – this time I gave up.  When I told her I gave up, she could see that I meant it.  Her huge pride and lack of commitment prevented her from saying that we need to talk about it.  I might have been able to salvage it again if I had taken the first step, but I decided I could not live with such caprice. 

[Gator]

Although I respond to questions and comments, I am not dwelling on the loss.  I have moved on.  It was a fabulous trip, and I feel lucky to have had the ride.  But it is over.  As Carly Simon wrote, "I haven't got time for the pain". 

I will give the FSU one more try.  I depart July 8 for Moscow, and the Moscow woman wants to give me a special birthday.   We have our issues, and I consider them serious (age being one), yet she sees no problem, saying that no one is perfect. Since we have already spent 3 years together, it will not take long to determine if we can renew and reconnect.   

If we do not reconnect, I will meet some strangers - one in Riga, maybe a couple of western Russian cities, and another in a Budapest.  All apparently wonderful women who seem to be sincerely interested in wanting to know more about me.  Finally I will go to Dnepropetrovsk where there are many irons in the fire including formers and promises.

I will not schedule anything with anyone other than the Moscow woman.  Perhaps some women will remove themselves from consideration because of my ambivalence.  Those with an open mind will probably still be interested, dependent upon their schedule of course.

Then there are my American friends who want to fix me up (with someone they approve of).

[Gator]

Having just read another Pike post, I must say this will not be a Pike trip with me shuffling women around and grading their face and body. 

I will see only one woman in each city (other than possibly DNP), and if she is not available I will not go to her city.   And if things do not progress, I will go to another city.  Maybe I will never leave Moscow. Or I go to Riga, be invited to her home for ryba, and never leave.  Who knows?

[KenC]

Gator,
You know that I had always pushed you to make a commitment on the other forum.  I had a difficult time graping why it would take any man such a long time to make a final decision.  I now know that you are a man with a most detailed mind thought.  Maybe too much so for your own good.  We will see if you over thought things with Miss Moscow now, won't we?

You certainly are a novelty in this process, when guys are lucky to be able to share any thought deeper than "you wanna fool around?" due to language difficulties and total lack of knowledge about the woman in question.  It is more than a rarity that a man would be willing to spend the energy and time to get to know their RW to the depth that you do.  I respect your conservative nature but wonder how much is too much?

When I first met and got to know Lena, I was filled with doubt and it took quite a while for me to be convinced that our relationship had a viable chance for success.  There were just too many logical hurdles in our path for any hasty decision to be made.  But there is a point, my friend, that you have to say "WTF" and take the plunge too.  In my case it hasn't been perfect, but the good certainly far exceeds the bad and I couldn't be more satisfied with my decision.

I guess what I am attempting to say here is that there is a time when all the analysis that can be done is done and you have to go with your gut.  That "gut feeling" is all about love and emotions.  Love is the great equalizer of any logical shortcomings in any relationship.  Even if Miss Moscow does fit into your logical concept of what your future wife should be, the question remains: Do you love each other?  I didn't have ALL the answers when Lena and I married, but it has been the joy of my life exploring the final questions over the last 9 years.  And I wouldn't change that for the world.  I also know that you think you have been living your life to the fullest, but in reality there is nothing better than living it with a good woman (in a committed relationship) by your side.  Good luck in Moscow.
KenC

[WmGO]

...... To keep something like this to herself.......after giving me the impression that all such things had been discussed....was completely unacceptable. .... BUT........between a man and a woman.....there should not be "shades"....................only yes.......or no ....

If I had "walked on egg shells"..........unwilling to say what was "really" on my mind.......I could have wasted several more trips. I think this process is just too costly (money, time, emotions)......to beat around the bush. If you are serious.......and the woman is serious......I think such bluntness will be mutually accepted.....and understood. My "wife" and I had no problem laying out all cards.....even before my first visit. There was no BS.......no questionable behavior......no red....or even pink....flags....

If you can't ask serious questions.....without offense......or without excuses.......and skirting issues...........................walk. I want a partner........I don't want to play psychologist with someone with a long list of issues.........that may never get fixed. This process is not easy sometimes even with relatively "normal" human beings.

I think in Bucky's case......less "trips".......more at-home (her city) time......going to a museum......the occaisional movie......and dinner-out........and "not" everyday.......might have yielded the same results........in much less time. Maybe its just me.......but I want a woman who can enjoy simple.....everyday things...............with "me". I think "all" woman can enjoy the "premium extras".................but life has no guarantees......that such things will always be available. If she is really into you.......she will enjoy doing "anything". If you don't try it out.......you will never "really" know.  Capt B

Good post Capt. B 

There is nothing quite like common sense injected into this whole FSUW thing. The above is a good dose of it.