I MADE THE WRONG CHOICE

[Maxx2]

Oh man Gator they would kiss anything to better their life. I remember Elvira shedding a tear because some old drunk got a beating by some young militsa guy. I remember her shedding a tear because some Gypsy kid was kneeling on the sidewalk begging in below zero weather. We were always dropping coin into babushkas open palms. It's all a show. She would have done to me what yours did to you if she had been courted by some rich Russian man. As long as you have heart for such women you are going to burn up your years. Your a good man but you are way too soft on these women. Find out exactly what they need to be for you then look for that. If they don't qualify "next" them. Look for the bad not the good. I wish you the best.


Maxx

[CaptB]

Bucky,

Your "Cossack" sounds alot like my first serious RW relationship. I went to Tver through LTP in 2001. I had precontacted about 16 RW 4-6 weeks before departure. As luck would have it ...........the four best prosects on the trip I met with on the first day. In hidesight I should have spent time with all four (past the first meeting. I met with the first two in the morning.........for about an hour each. "N" was 5' 2"......and cute as a button. Great smile, great personality......everybody liked her in the office. She had done some rock climbing, scuba, hang-gliding, sailking.......adventurous.......I liked that. She had two children.....5 & 7.........which was not a problem for me. I have always hoped she found a nice guy.

The second was a teacher.......attractive.......one 7 y.o. Son..........a very nice woman......with lots of interests. She shared my interest in Anthropology.......and had taken
some classes at the University in this field. She like many and varried activities........and just seemed like a nice down-to-earth person.

My "4th" and final date on the first day was "O". An attorney from California really had a thing for "O".........so much so...........that he waited all morning.....and afternoon.......just to say "hi" to her.............during "my" date! (although I don't think she shared his enthusiasm).
His comments lead me to believe his primary interest was "arm candy". In the office all the girls called her "the eyes".........the most ethereal "Bahama blue/green" eyes I have ever seen. Beautiful, thick....auburn hair, 5' 6".......beautiful, hard body. Later......everyone was commenting on her "dress".......white, shear......big black dots...........ala Marilyn Monroe. Apparently you could clearly see her "black" undergarments in the sunlight...........I never noticed.........I was too transfixed from the neck...up....on those "eyes". I don't think she ever lacked for male attention. She was reserved.....and matter-of-fact........at our lunch at a restaurant. I think she was surprised at the seriousness of my questions to her. I am sure many men flirted......and tried to charm........but I was looking for a partner. I was very surprised at her answer to my question about "fidelity". Her reply was.....that in her experience........"men would be men"..........as long as she did'nt know about it. So I said.....and "as it applies to you"?................"Well of course I would always be faithful". I replied......."well that is bull$hit! She had a surprised look on her face.....and was taken aback. I rephrased......and again as about "her" preference in a man's fidelity. She again said......as long as she did'nt know. I again said she misunderstood.......and reasked the question. "But of course I would "prefer" fidelity in the man also"......she replied. I told her as for me it must be absolute or nothing......in regards to both partners. Now she was not reserved.......but grinning from ear to ear. I think she liked the fact that I was asking serious questions (there were many, many more)......unlike most of her other dates. I even think she liked my "bull$hit comment. At the end of the date she told the interpreter she would like to see me again. We never did. I never did notice what all the fuss was......about her dress.........................................dam!!!!!!!!!!!

I did'nt forget the 3rd date..................it was "I". Beautiful, animated, funny, serious, charming, smart, affectionate, good Mother......great personality. "I" just bowled me over............others never had a chance. Our first meeting scheduled for an hour turned into 2 1/2 hours........but seemed like 20 minutes. Lots of serious talk.......but we laughed alot also. To make a long story short.......I only met with other women "once".......with no second dates.........but met with "I" almost daily. Her wonderful daughter and I bonded.........making the ultimate break-up difficult.........but necessary. I made three trips to see "I"........and after each one.......she would not stick to her guns......and attend her English classes.......among other things. Leary of a life in another country?.......Affraid of the difficulty in  learning another language? A general distrust in men? Maybe.....to all of the above........who really knows. Some RW (and AW)......will never really be suitable for an international marriage...............no matter how wonderful they are. After my third visit I had to face the fact that.........."she just was not into me enough.......to make a serious attempt".

Bucky........you just ended a relationship with the "Cossack". I do understand you have a history with the woman in Moscow........but is it really worth another try after all the time you spent together? What I read into your posts about her was lots of indecission......changes in heart.....mood swings..........      My RW in Tver had lots of good qualities.........and I think she truly liked me.....................BUT........... I finally had to take a really hard look at the relationship and ask......should it be this much work to get her motivated.........when maybe her motivation.......should really be self-induced. Trying to analyze the "whys"........I finally determined............was a wastes of time. Guys always want to know the "whys"...............even when things don't work out. The truth is.......knowing why won't change anything............and not have anything to do with "you" as a person. Its about "her" feelings..........which probably won't change. I have had alot of 75%/25% relationships...................they just don't work. When my wife came along.......I did'nt have to try so hard........because her feelings matched mine. No mystery.........but some never understand. Feelings need to be mutual........and she needs to be the type to jump in with both feet......after making a decission.........and never looking back. There are alot of good people........who will never be right.........for "this" international marriage process.

Bucky.......hopefully you will take a hard look at the "whys" and "why-nots" with your Moscow RW. I could be wrong in your case.......but in mine.......the last trip did'nt change anything........it just reinforced my original decission........it was time to move on. I think when the "real deal" comes along for you........you won't have to over-analyze.............things will just "feel"...........right. As always........good luck.


Capt B

[Jazzyclassy]

Oh man Gator they would kiss anything to better their life. I remember Elvira shedding a tear because some old drunk got a beating by some young militsa guy. I remember her shedding a tear because some Gypsy kid was kneeling on the sidewalk begging in below zero weather. We were always dropping coin into babushkas open palms. It's all a show. She would have done to me what yours did to you if she had been courted by some rich Russian man. As long as you have heart for such women you are going to burn up your years. Your a good man but you are way too soft on these women. Find out exactly what they need to be for you then look for that. If they don't qualify "next" them. Look for the bad not the good. I wish you the best.


Maxx

Maxx these were my thoughts when I was reading all those crying and complainings of men on different forums
They apparently like these kinda crazy relations close to the limit, this passion of arguments these unstability they love being tortured , that is their life. I think they need to re-think , re-understand what they really want their woman  to be, and what they need in her, to be a beautiful picture with a show, to express how they would do anything for him on words but never do that in reality , or a normal  nice honest loving woman who will say less but do everything for him.

I do not mean here in particular Gator I know he is an excellent man,  just in his case it happened so that they both did some mistakes in their relations from the start that is why it did not work out. I am sure he will find great woman  so great just like how he is

But there are such men who always step into the same waters, after one girl who hurt them , they meet another one the same, with the same prospects and view on life, they will always be cheated this way , as they choose such women to be with them, they can not just blame somebody , in this case, that is their own fault and that is why God is sending them such relations and situations for them to understand that they do not need them it is a mistake, but they keep doing and meeting the same sort of people, who will give them lies and they will live in lie and think of it as a pure truth but then eventually  it will be all illusion and a sandcastle

I really did meet such people who were only crying and complaining oh why oh why I meet such girls they seem to be so great and beautiful and true but then they occur to be not what I need , and these people keep saying -yeah I will be so prudent now I will never allow some hot sexy woman in shirt skirt with glitter in her eyes for luxury to charm me I will be wise this time, -- Yes  sure  , and they keep doing the same thing, they need to change themselves in order to get that type of relations which they dreamt of and want for a lifetime and not for just 2 weeks of crazy passion in some Barbados resort - nor Carribean  islands will help you , if you do not love each other and truly can not commit for each other

I noticed many guys are oriented on glitter and entertainment sort of life, they think that if I take her to so many resort places or buy her things which she wants , she will be mine forever and will adopt to my thinking of how the world works--------- HA no way guys that is a big big mistake of yours

These resorts should be later on when she is your wife when she is all for real and you can trust her, but not like after 5 months of knowing her,  cos you need to learn her inner world by seeing her in normal life conditions at home not in 5 star lux hotel, any am sorry slut will pretend to be a real great woman drinking champagne all the time, eating strawberries covered with cream and dressed up in all the golden dresses, but take away all these things from her and -Baaa she is who she is a woman who is complaining all the time, wants money from you and wants you to always understand her changings of the mood every 5 seconds

So you better be careful before you take your girl somewhere luxurious , check her out first and be sure in her and trust her only then go even to Antarctika she will never leave you or betray!

[KenC]

Jazzy,
Yeah, it takes a lot of sacrifice for a woman to move from Siberia to a Caribbean island!  All for the sake of "love."

Once those bugs are worked out on the ATM card, all will be great!
 
KenC

[I/O]

Yeah, it takes a lot of sacrifice for a woman to move from Siberia to a Caribbean island!KenC

Hmmm I live on an island.......with plenty of bugs too.

I/O

[Gator]

Capt B,

You are a very wise man.  You should post more often.  I can identify with your statement:

Some RW......will never really be suitable for an international marriage...............no matter how wonderful they are. After my third visit I had to face the fact that.........."she just was not into me enough.......to make a serious attempt".

Being left-handed and very artistic on top of being a real woman, the Cossack had her emotional swings.  At times she was into me so much, it was almost scarey.  Then ….click….the lights go out for 3-4 days and not because of menstruation.  I am steady as a rock and thought that would help her.  Perhaps it would if we spoke the same language.  You can not reach into a woman’s mind with an electronic translator.

CaptB, you moved on after three meetings.  It took me much longer so maybe I am a little slow.  Meanwhile I was enjoying having Audrey Hepburn with breasts as a girlfriend.  It was a great time, perhaps once in a lifetime, and worth the experience.  Well, it was twice in my lifetime, the other a left-handed blonde artist-model from Denmark, many, many years ago.  Gawd, was that ever tumultuous.  Interesting that Cupid gave me the same opportunity again and I had not learned anything.  The third time it happens I will….

[Gator]

KenC,

The Moscow woman is a true friend and she has the intelligence to be a great partner.  A lover, that is the issue, and you are smart enough to sense that I ain't feeling it or I would not be talking about it.  Love may not be possible for her with anyone.   

You make valid points about my paralysis by analysis.  I think I overanalyze when my gut is giving me conflicting signals.  With the right woman, there is probably no conflict.   

The Moscow woman claims I am looking for perfection.  Only an angel is perfect and they live in heaven.

So….

One of the women corresponding with me quoted the oft-quoted Sam Keen, “We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly”. 

Her attitude impressed me as well as her knowledge of an American philosopher.  In fact, she appears to have many admirable qualities.  If I could meet only one woman, it would be her.  40, no children, looking for a completely new life and a man who knows life.  Here we go again……?

[Gator]

Jazzy,

These resorts should be later on when she is your wife when she is all for real and you can trust her, but not like after 5 months of knowing her,  cos you need to learn her inner world by seeing her in normal life conditions

Very true.  However, it is difficult when holed up in winter in Siber with no English except on the Internet.  The "No English" keeps popping up.


Maxx,

I am beginning to feel like the new poster child for failure.  Even you, the former poster child, is giving me advice.  That is a big change for you.  Are you ready to take the plunge even though IMBRA adds another hurdle in your case?

Somehow I am having a good time.  But I do want to settle down with just one woman and make it forever.   Are you having a good time?

[Turboguy]

Don't ever think of yourself as a  poster child for failure when it comes to finding the right woman.  I think it is a lot like Edison and the light bulb.  It took him thousands of tries to find the one that worked.  His comment was not that he had failed but that he found thousands of ways not to do it.  You will discover the right woman you have just had to have a few tries to get it right.   The real failures are those who marry the first woman they meet because they have a beautiful face and a sexy body and then go on to a quick train wreck.  You are just taking the time and making the effort to do it right. 

The Cossack sounds a little like my former fiancee with the mood swings.  She almost sounds a little bipolar.   Having dealt with that I can understand how hard it was to deal with and being steady as a rock does not change it.  It is her makeup and will not change.

[KenC]

KenC,

The Moscow woman is a true friend and she has the intelligence to be a great partner.  A lover, that is the issue, and you are smart enough to sense that I ain't feeling it or I would not be talking about it.  Love may not be possible for her with anyone.   

You make valid points about my paralysis by analysis.  I think I overanalyze when my gut is giving me conflicting signals.  With the right woman, there is probably no conflict.

The key here is not to spend years when your gut is giving you conflicting signals!  You're a very intelligent and wise man, Gator, trust your instincts!   

The Moscow woman claims I am looking for perfection.  Only an angel is perfect and they live in heaven.

So….

One of the women corresponding with me quoted the oft-quoted Sam Keen, “We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly”.  

Her attitude impressed me as well as her knowledge of an American philosopher.  In fact, she appears to have many admirable qualities.  If I could meet only one woman, it would be her.  40, no children, looking for a completely new life and a man who knows life.  Here we go again……?

Wow, that blows me away!  A perfect explanation in my mind.
KenC

[Maxx2]

Maxx,

I am beginning to feel like the new poster child for failure.  Even you, the former poster child, is giving me advice.  That is a big change for you.  Are you ready to take the plunge even though IMBRA adds another hurdle in your case?

Somehow I am having a good time.  But I do want to settle down with just one woman and make it forever.   Are you having a good time?

Gator, you are just too nice of a guy. Remember Doug Salem's thread "Nice guys also finish last in the FSU"? Look for a rock solid limited baggage sort of women. Multiple short term marriages should be an automatic disqualifier. The Nice guys like to give them second (sometimes 3rd or 4th) chances. They reason that they have had a few marital failures so they should overlook this in others. That's just plain dumb. 

I really do not like giving advice.

In no way am I ready to answer to the USCIS for the setup they did on me. Rather they should answer to us and they will.

Am I having fun? Not as much as I would like women wise. That is for later after I get this other thing done. But I am busy and am having fun with my project. I am taking lots of trips. I will be leaving next week for my 4th trip since mid-Febuary.

 

Maxx

[BC]

Gator,

Looking over your posts two words seem to stand out, trust and love.

I don't think I can offer any advice but maybe a little of my experience.

We married almost 5 years ago and I can remember asking myself a million times if it is the right thing to do.. and quite honestly I did not know 100% even while trading rings, not even close.

Did we love each other? We were infatuated with each other but truly in love.. - I don't think so.  That old expression 'to fall in love' simply is not true.  Do we love now?.. yes, but this love was built more by sticking together during the hard times than enjoying good times -and takes a lot of effort to maintain.

Did we trust each other? Well, the decision to let our daughter finish the school year in RU before coming a few months after her mother settled in wasn't just a school thing..  Surely my wife wanted to first verify.. whereas I was in a position of blindly trusting - after all I had the least to loose.

Love is built and trust is earned, over time..  Without trust what can you love?  It took us years to get where we are today in our relationship and there still ain't no guarantees.

I guess to sum it up, other than the many basic qualifying factors involved we both just felt it was 'right'. Based upon our beliefs we took the plunge.

Not trying to talk you into or out of anything.. just letting you know that when the time is right, you will both feel it and the decisions won't be tough at all.  Marriage after all is a beginning and not an end.

[WmGO]

..... not for just 2 weeks of crazy passion in some Barbados resort - nor Carribean  islands will help you ...

These resorts should be later on when she is your wife when she is all for real and you can trust her, but not like after 5 months of knowing her,  cos you need to learn her inner world by seeing her in normal life conditions at home not in 5 star lux hotel....

So you better be careful before you take your girl somewhere luxurious , check her out first and be sure in her and trust her only then go ....

Words of common sense wisdom. A WM cannot learn an FSUW by flying her all over the world wining and dining her. If you want to learn about a women you HAVE to do it the way Kuna is doing it: in her own country under her normal everyday living conditions and spending time with her family and friends.

Good post JC.

[Daveman]

Words of common sense wisdom. A WM cannot learn an FSUW by flying her all over the world wining and dining her. If you want to learn about a women you HAVE to do it the way Kuna is doing it: in her own country under her normal everyday living conditions and spending time with her family and friends.

Good post JC.

This of course has little to do with Gator's situation, but I agree completely here. If you want to learn about a woman, then 'live' with her...  in a normal Russian/Ukrainian apartment, grocery shopping together, cooking together, walking hand in hand around her city together, just being in as much of a normal living environment as possible.  Nothing will give you more detail about the woman of your interest than 'normalcy' in your learning environment.  Words are great, but nothing beats your own eye witness account of her natural behavior in her natural habitat.

And be yourself too.. you want her to choose you for exactly who you are and not some facade you put on for a couple of weeks.  Let her fall in love with that wonderful person you are, including your flaws.

Man, I love this quote:

One of the women corresponding with me quoted the oft-quoted Sam Keen, “We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly”.

Dave

[CaptB]

I have always believed in Jazzy's assessment that you should save the exotic trips etc. for "after" marriage.........or at least formal engagement. Bucky made the comment about going "stir crazy" (my quote......but the idea is the same)...........in Siberia.........hence "trips"
and other exotic entertainment. My first trip to Russia....initially.....was to see Russia. Exploring the possibility of a RW as a partner.........came later. The first trip was really a long-needed vacation......first and formost. In the 11th hour.......I decided to go with a friend who was using LTP in Tver. Getting wind that a friend was coming with their existing client.......they made an offer that was hard to refuse. I made a few contacts 4-6 weeks prior to departure......."mainly".......so I thought.......to have a few dates for lunch, dinner etc. After meeting the first four women on the first day........that quickly changed. "I", who I described in an earlier post, I made plenty of mistakes with. We did a new activity everday...........dinner, movies, trip to Moscow, trip to St. Pete etc. If I had stuck to doing "everyday"........."normal"..........activities.........I think I would have figured things out..........in "less".....than three trips.

Yes........."stir crazy"........in Siberia......is what you should be doing....IMHO. Finding a partner is "serious business". Sometimes the best thing isn't always the most pleasant or entertaining. If the woman is as serious as "you" are......about finding a partner.......vacation won't be necessary. She will be satisfied getting to know you.....in
an everyday/normal environment. This is what I did when I went to visit my wife. Dinner out twice.......a movie.......a museum........walks in the park.......visiting friends/relatives......grocery shopping.......cooking for each other......yahtzee........tv.......and more walking. No cabs..........just busses........"route taxis". With each day......doing normal things........we became closer. With "I" in Tver.......there might not have been a second trip......if I had not dazzled her with "vacation activities".

It may not be as exciting........but doing everyday activities will give you a small glimpse into "her" life in the FSU. What you don't get...on vacation......is alot of time observing her friends, relatives and coworkers..............and how "they" regard your RW. All who knew my wife.......told me how lucky "I" was. No jealousy that she may be leaving them in the future. Just a really great bunch of people.....within her circle. These people can be your best allies.........unlike "you"........many have known her all their lives. And if you think all feedback will be possitive......think again. The "Doc's" (in Moscow) Mother.....let me know she could be a little difficult......as did her Brother........and Aunt.

Finding a partner is "serious business". I think too many guys I have come to know over the years........lose focus. They try to do too many things at once (vacation, business, finding a partner)...........all on the same trip.

Bucky......you said maybe you were a little "slow" in coming to conclussions......and that I figured things out in three trips. The truth is.... I have become very good at changing tack........when something is'nt working. If its not working.....its time to change what you are doing. Sitting around in a Siberian town might not be exciting (ie like vacation).......but it could yield you a life partner........................that will make your vactions (later).........just that much more.........enjoyable. Try a little "boredom" in Siberia.......it may turn out to be more enjoyable than you thought. Just food.......for thought.


Capt B

[vwrw]

I always smile to my self when I see as one born to creep tells other one born to fly: “do not try to fly; you will fall down and get hurt” “why? What is the basis for such a conclusion?-the one born to fly asks. “I had tried to fly many times and each time I fell down and got hurt”
The significance of the words mention above is one should not apply her own yardstick when she makes advices.

Reading Kuna’s post I have got impression first of all he wants woman with appropriative qualities to be mother of his future children and housekeeper. So I am absolutely agreed he is doing right sitting in her apt. and watching as she cleans, testing food prepared by her, and examining her for other qualities what a good mother and housekeeper must have.
However, thank God, there is other kind of men who also desire to find wives among FSU women. These men first of all want women who have intellectual curiosity and desire to explore the world even if it will be a dirty remote village, who can stimulate discussion, and have other qualities necessary for taking an active part in socializing. In this case it is not important where a couple spends its time in woman’s city or elsewhere.

All in all Is it not possible to live in apt. to make grocery shopping together, cooking together, walking hand in hand around and talk non-stop on Barbados or elsewhere?   
Just, do not get me wrong. I am absolutely agreed that each man should visit and spend at least one week at his woman’s city with her family and her friend. I just do not understand why one born to fly must creep to be considered as non-faulty one. To each his own!! 

[Daveman]

Reading Kuna’s post I have got impression first of all he wants woman with appropriative qualities to be mother of his future children and housekeeper. So I am absolutely agreed he is doing right sitting in her apt. and watching as she cleans, testing food prepared by her, and examining her for other qualities what a good mother and housekeeper must have.
However, thank God, there is other kind of men who also desire to find wives among FSU women. These men first of all want women who have intellectual curiosity and desire to explore the world even if it will be a dirty remote village, who can stimulate discussion, and have other qualities necessary for taking an active part in socializing. In this case it is not important where a couple spends its time in woman’s city or elsewhere.

That's quite the limited impression of what Kuna wants.  Mother and clean the house? You don't think it's possible he's actually looking for a partner in life?

The traits you describe are far from mutually exclusive. A woman who wishes for children and a happy home environment can have an immense intellectual curiosity, desire to explore the world, stimulate amazing discussions and take an active part in socializing - and accomplish all of those and more. It isn't an either/or.

All in all Is it not possible to live in apt. to make grocery shopping together, cooking together, walking hand in hand around and talk non-stop on Barbados or elsewhere?   
Just, do not get me wrong. I am absolutely agreed that each man should visit and spend at least one week at his woman’s city with her family and her friend. I just do not understand why one born to fly must creep to be considered as non-faulty one. To each his own!!

Barbados doesn't allow him to learn anything of her culture, her entertainment, see and experience all which she holds dear and share those with her long enough to see and understand them through her eyes, her real daily life - those tangibles and intangibles which have molded the little girl into the woman she has become.  For me it doesn't stop there... a week really isn't enough. I want to learn her language, her history, her ancestry, her heritage - to experience her world as she will experience mine.  I want to know her completely and love her from the inside out for who she really is.  Doesn't mean another approach is wrong, but I still doubt there's a better way to learn the most about a lady than to live with her in her environment.

I really couldn't care less if she never cooks or cleans. I can feed myself, or hire a housekeeper and cook. 

Sure, there are different strokes for different folks, but make no mistake, we are all meant to fly...

[vwrw]

That's quite the limited impression of what Kuna wants.  Mother and clean the house? You don't think it's possible he's actually looking for a partner in life?

Barbados doesn't allow him to learn anything of her culture, her entertainment, see and experience all which she holds dear and share those with her long enough to see and understand them through her eyes, her real daily life - those tangibles and intangibles which have molded the little girl into the woman she has become.  For me it doesn't stop there... a week really isn't enough. I want to learn her language, her history, her ancestry, her heritage - to experience her world as she will experience mine.  I want to know her completely and love her from the inside out for who she really is.  Doesn't mean another approach is wrong, but I still doubt there's a better way to learn the most about a lady than to live with her in her environment.

Daveman, I have no doubt Kuna wants a partner with a lot of virtues. Simply, I have impression from reading his posts that woman’s desire to be mother and housekeeper is of majority importance for him. I can be wrong; I do not pretend to be a mind-reader, as some do here. I just wanted to use him as an analog to express my opinion for which kind of man it is better spend the entire courtship period in his woman’s city.  

I am sorry I do not know the exact percent of people who got divorced at last year but I think the percent is scaring. Majority of the couples lived in one city prior to marriage and had a wonderful opportunity to learn each other through their daily life; however it did not prevented them from mistake.

[KenC]

VWRW,
My wife Lena always had a cute way of referring to us "living" in a hotel while we go on vacation.  I would think that if real life had room service, a mini bar and a full beauty spa 2 floors down, it would be great!  Point being, that being on the road has little resemblance to what one's "real" life. 

Even men that are lucky enough to be in Gator's position of having lots of time and money available for travel, will not be on vacation for the majority of time.  Think about it logically.  If a couple makes 4 or even 5 trips a year, that is a lot.  If every trip averages 2 weeks in duration, it is still only 10 weeks.  The other 42 weeks are spent at home.  How a couple interacts at home is what is most important, not how they behave while in some exotic vacation local.

It is wonderful that you and Turbo will be able to spend time together in Barbados.  I can only imagine how unique an experience you two will enjoy.  But that is the whole point too.  Living together in Barbados will be a unique experience and have nothing similar to how the two of you will "live" in a small town in PA.
KenC

[mspanky]

A small town in PA can be veeeeerrrry quiet with little to do. Some folks like small towns. I would go nuts in a small town.

[KenC]

A small town in PA can be veeeeerrrry quiet with little to do. Some folks like small towns. I would go nuts in a small town.

Mspanky,
I lived in a small town in MI for two years and wanted to shoot myself!  When the most exciting thing to do in winter was to watch the Amish cut ice, you know you are desperate for entertainment!

KenC

[Simoni]

Yes  sure, and they keep doing the same thing, they need to change themselves in order to get that type of relations which they dreamt of and want for a lifetime and not for just 2 weeks of crazy passion in some Barbados resort - nor Caribbean islands will help you , if you do not love each other and truly can not commit for each other

There is another perspective to this, Jazzy....

When getting to know someone, it IS APPROPRIATE to take them to a Caribbean island after 5 months.  Why?  To see if they like it!

As for me, I love travel and take 3 or 4 such vacations a year.  Do I want to marry a girl, only to find she is a girl who wants to stay at home and hates to travel?  Or a girl who does not like to climb mountains?  Or windsurf?

I actually had a gf I took to the Caribbean once who hated it there.  I married someone else.

Hence, don't jump to judgements too fast.   A Caribbean vacation is part of the plan of getting to know the girl for some of us men.

[Simoni]

Barbados doesn't allow him to learn anything of her culture, her entertainment, see and experience all which she holds dear and share those with her long enough to see and understand them through her eyes, her real daily life - those tangibles and intangibles which have molded the little girl into the woman she has become.  For me it doesn't stop there... a week really isn't enough. I want to learn her language, her history, her ancestry, her heritage - to experience her world as she will experience mine.  I want to know her completely and love her from the inside out for who she really is. ...but I still doubt there's a better way to learn the most about a lady than to live with her in her environment.

To the contrary Daveman, I found it VERY important to get the girl out of her town, to a new place for both of us. I'm not discounting the things you noted above, but in the case of the couple you are discussing, they have already experienced that together.  There comes a time when you move on to other places in the world...a new place for both of you...where neither person is at home.  In many ways, that's an ideal experience for a perspective couple to experience.

[Jazzyclassy]

There is another perspective to this, Jazzy....

When getting to know someone, it IS APPROPRIATE to take them to a Caribbean island after 5 months.  Why?  To see if they like it!

As for me, I love travel and take 3 or 4 such vacations a year.  Do I want to marry a girl, only to find she is a girl who wants to stay at home and hates to travel?  Or a girl who does not like to climb mountains?  Or windsurf?

I actually had a gf I took to the Caribbean once who hated it there.  I married someone else.

Hence, don't jump to judgements too fast.   A Caribbean vacation is part of the plan of getting to know the girl for some of us men.

Well sure if you are a millionaire and can spend money all they way around just to impress and to check if she likes to travel , to me it sounds silly really, Ok if you took her to Caribbean and she hated it , fair enough if you never complained about it, I was talking about the guys who have no opportunity to travel that luxurious but they saved money and took the girl they barely know and she hated it and then they would cry and write crazy poems here in the forum, setting to depressing mood all the members around, well as someone's told forums are existing for crying about bad experience:P well not only for that I should say

Well sure there are guys who  travel a lot, there are who travel  only few times .Believe me we all love to travel , it all depends on the opportunities and abilities , You are mistaken if you think that only you love to travel and the others not, if people had money they would all be travelling the whole year round! But the matter is not in traveling as I told before any crazy girl would like traveling , doing nothing and relaxing all the time. You better find the girl who would love sitting at home and cooking and taking care of the house, that would be probably a rare diamond girl!

Crazy woman for traveling you can find everywhere , but a not a wife and a good housekeeper

[Simoni]

Jazzy, it's not that complex.

The simple point I was making is that if you like to travel and can travel, it makes sense to find a girl who likes the same.

So, if you are that person (after spending lots of time with her in her own home city), by all means travel with her.

Gator:  Sorry for the topic drift....however, making the right choice does involve selecting a girl with the same energy level as you and with the same sense of adventure...so maybe we are not drifting to far with this dialogue, after all.