Clue bat the lady or not?

[Daveman]

Something I've seen with the three different FSU ladies I've 'dated'... they all seem to think adapting to life in America is absolutely no big deal.  This is even so with the current lady who cannot yet speak English well.

I don't really want to seriously whop her with the clue bat, but I would indeed like for the images she's carrying in her mind to be a little more realistic without killing her optimism.  She has the right attitude of "we can overcome all" but, some of her thinking is a little warped to reality.  Not like a lunatic, but, different. Any time I make comments such as "Well, it will take a little time to adjust to a new environment", she counters with "I am Russian woman... blah blah blah" exactly like I/O and others have stated.  She simply doesn't want to hear anything negative.  I know she does listen because she has asked some questions later about different things we have discussed this way. 

Is this one of those times where she's pretty much going to think what she thinks regardless of what I might say? Is there any way to give her a more realistic picture of the transition period? or should I just let it be?

I understand *I* should prepare for it, but I'm not sure how much I should try to prepare her for it, or even if it would really do any good if I do.  As stated elsewhere, we are still a ways off before reality will hit, but I'd like to get some input and thoughts.

Dave

[wxman]

My fiancee is just the opposite. She is constantly asking questions about America. Not the typical questions, but how it applies to her and her daughter. Being honest from the start and not painting a rosey picture of America seems to work best for us. I use the reverse and ask her how difficult it would be for me to transition into her culture. She understands how difficult that would be.

She has an economics degree, and as well as that may be for Ukraine, what she will truly need, is to be fluent in English in order to move up beyond lower paying jobs. She speaks decent English, but will need to continue improving her skills. It will be much easier for her daughter as she can already speak English with no problem, and will be able to transition with less problems. 

I don't talk about how great life will be in America, but that it will be different and that the transition from one culture into another will be one of the most difficult endeavors she will take upon herself.

Many people will talk like they can easily transition to another culture, especially if they have not committed to that path, but once they do, the fear and uncertainty sets in, and then the questions will flow.  America is not Utopia, and I openly speak about our problems here as well as what I like about living here.

[Gator]

Many FSU women have a friend or two who is already living in America.  In fact, their friends may have encouraged them to seek marriage with an AM.  They know there will be an adjustment period; however, they are survivors from a difficult life.

Is it possible to adjust easily. My ex-fincee answered the telephone on the second day after she arrived.  In the second week she drove herself 25 minutes to an a dentist appointment while I played golf.  She made new friends.  At the end of a month, this is how she looked each time we drove back from the beach:  car windows open in July, hair blowing in the breeze, feet on the dashboard, and a beer in her hand.  The Latin music playing on the radio, the lack of tattoos, and not missing any teeth were the only ways to distinguish her from a Florida cracker.

[jb]

At the end of a month, this is how she looked each time we drove back from the beach:  car windows open in July, hair blowing in the breeze, feet on the dashboard, and a beer in her hand.  The Latin music playing on the radio, the lack of tattoos, and not missing any teeth were the only ways to distinguish her from a Florida cracker.

You shoulda married that girl.

[START2]

There will be many adjustments for her to make and it will eventually seem like a 24 hour job. That can be trying and tiring to anyone. What will be the biggest adjustment will be that dad, mom, sis, bro, and closest of friends will not be near. That's what will take it's toll. Even with daily phone calls she will have to have great strength to overcome the homesickness.
  As for you,  As AJ pointed out......your patience will be a virtue. 

[DKMM]

The truth is YMMV isn't it?  Some will adapt easily and others we've seen here won't.  My girl is adamant about moving here and adjusting to the culture (she shot down my idea of moving there).  It helps that she already went through that by moving to the UK for 9 months on a foreign exchange program.

This is why I like Moscow girls.  A lot of them have already left their home town to move to Moscow to work.  They went through the horrible adjustment period.  They also learn that the grass is not really greener in Moscow just because there is more money there (the mean people, the dirty roads, the self absorbed men who are not interested in families).  I think these women are better candidates for adjusting to a new life.  But I haven't been through it yet so what do I know...

[I/O]

Dave: I think you might be missing a point here.  The situation you outline is the first point of your patience being sorely tested.  Patience in quietly reiterating the point.

NO cluebats man.  Whether or not she is ultimately the one for you, only time will tell, but she sure seems like a "Keeper type" from what you've told about her. Understand that right now, she is pretty excited about you and about a possible future and to that extent she will dismiss the negatives a little, but rest assured the more dismissive women are of a negative, very often the more worried they actually are about that exact point. 

Me thinks you've got a little bravado happening here and I suggest you just let it be.  I'm guessing that underneath she is as worried as hell about it. Take your time and let it flow, as time goes along, she will convey her fears to you.  Believe me she will do this but maybe in ways that you are not used to in local women. Just remain vigilant and ready to answer factually when the questions come.

FWIW

I/O

[ScottinCrimea]

I'm just sitting here reading this and laughing.  Before I moved to Ukraine my wife tried to warn of me of how difficult the cultural transition would be, but I discounted most of what she said and thought I could handle it with no ptoblem.  I'm not sure if I was over confident or underinformed,  or maybe it was just that AM stubbornness manifesting itself.

Beyond the initial, "Wow, look, I'm on another planet!" time, the true culture shock was not something that hit all at once but gradually over time.  I think the adjustment is a lot longer process than most think about because even after a few years, events occur or you find something that must be done that you have no clue how to do in the new place and you suddenly feel like you're back to square one.

Even now, after seeing what I went through, my wife isn't too concerned about her adjustment to the US.  So far her biggest worry is converting from the metric system to the imperial system and celsius to fahrenheit.

Based on my experience, I wouldn't try to change your fiance's mind by suggesting it will be tough because she thinks she is a tough resilient woman and can handle anything, "No problem."
All you can do is make comments on some of the diferences you notice and let her think about it and ask questions if she chooses.

Bottom line, you have to have the patience to be patient for a long time.

[Daveman]

Thanks guys.  This isn't really trying my patience and I really didn't have any intention of aggressively whopping her with the bat.  I think she's a keeper for sure.  So far the Viking approach of:

"I the Russian Woman...I can to do it"
"Yes you are, and that's what I love about you..."

works every time.

But, now that we are beginning to discuss specifics, such as asking me the steps necessary for her to pursue a career... so I answer... but she doesn't think it will be as big of an effort as I think it will so I get an "I the Russian Woman...".  Well, then why did she bother to ask about it in the first place?   

"I the Russian Woman..." while looking unique and wonderful on a resume, probably won't have the desired result. I think letting it be for now it the best course. She's focused on *us*, so I'll leave it alone rather than trying to force her to understand other aspects.  Maybe those can be discussed in more detail during the next trip or after.

I think I'll let a Russian woman friend visiting from America answer her questions.  Because, she the Russian woman.. yes she is... and maybe after an hour or so of telling each other that they are Russian women, they'll begin to communicate.    It's all good.


Anyway, here's the happy couple...  Please allow me to introduce, Lady x0897UUcs45-876s89e to protect her identity... okay, maybe I'll just call her Natasha because it's easier...

Notice the size of HER bear compared to the size of MY bear... man... perhaps a portent...

Dave

[DKMM]

Daveman, you lucky dawg.

Sometimes women ask about things that they really just want to tell you about right?

You could furnish her a video of COPS.  Tell her that's your hometown.  That might give her pause and spark some more questions.   

There is no way you could properly prepare her for it.  Imagine trying to prepare yourself for Russia, no amount of talking to someone could get you ready for the real deal. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Oh awww dear Daveman you look so great together am sure you will succeed  and she will adopt to American life somehow
It is nice you seem to  have like not a big age gap   though you have it !:P:)

to live in America  one should change himself/herself in some way especially being from the other culture, I know America is sometimes kind to people from abroad but some people are just like thrown away puppies, though your girl will be with you so she wont feel bad, I am sure she will adopt  when a loving caring man is by her side, I do not think you will have a lot of complications

All the best to you and your girl  and good luck:)

I like how you both smile I think it's cute

[DKMM]

I know America is sometimes kind to people from abroad but some people are just like thrown away puppies

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen in a while.

[Sort]

This is probably the stupidest thing I've seen in a while.

I agree with ya.
If you hear from some of my friends that have been to America they say that the people are VERY friendly and when they hear that you are from Sweden or Europe you get a very good welcome and they are very happy to help you in any way.

[Mir]

In every country some people might be mistreated, and US is no exception to this.
DKMM: Rather harsh comments I must say

[Jazzyclassy]

I agree with ya.
If you hear from some of my friends that have been to America they say that the people are VERY friendly and when they hear that you are from Sweden or Europe you get a very good welcome and they are very happy to help you in any way.

yeah sure  from Sweden or from Europe , I wonder what they will tell if you tell them you are from Russia........

well dear Mir  people always are in hurry to hurt people , they apparently do not  value things .....oh well i guess friendly and nice treatement and avaluation of people it is big rare thing in this World

[wxman]

Russians probably do recieve less of a welcome in the US by some as opposed to people from western Europe. For years through the cold war, we were told that Russian technology is inferior, Russian life is inferior, Russian education is inferior, and that western Europe are our brothers and friends. Will she encounter that when she comes here, probably not directly to her face, but they will say things behind her back. Pretty much the same thing would happen when an American moves to Russia. Distrust between the two is very strong, and it is hard to eliminate the prejudices that have been preached to each nation's population for the last 60+ years.

[groovlstk]

Dave,

If you're at the point where you're discussing what life will be like here together, you might want to hook her up with women who've made the transition.

My wife has made some friends through the message board here:
http://www.russian-fiancee.com/rus/forum/

There are guys who will tell you that you should be very careful about who you "allow" your girl to mingle with, as female Russian expats can be a harsh and ultracompetitive group, but if your girl has a good head on her shoulders she can easily separate the harpies from the decent women.

FWIW, my wife has yet to be treated rudely based on cold war attitudes or stereotypes. In my opinion that will be the least of your worries when dealing with strangers or even family/friends. However, we've encountered a good number of people who immediately assume she was poor in Russia, sometimes the questions they'll ask her are so embarrassingly ignorant that I want to carry around a few spare history books to distribute to the clueless like some ornery missionary.

[wxman]

FWIW, my wife has yet to be treated rudely based on cold war attitudes or stereotypes. In my opinion that will be the least of your worries when dealing with strangers or even family/friends. However, we've encountered a good number of people who immediately assume she was poor in Russia, sometimes the questions they'll ask her are so embarrassingly ignorant that I want to carry around a few spare history books to distribute to the clueless like some ornery missionary.

It may be best not to clue bat the woman, but instead have her bring her clue bat to use when someone asks her a dumb question. TR was right, "Walk softly and carry a big stick."   

[Mir]

Wx

Yes there can be mutual mistrust but it is not of the same type and responce.
For example not long ago (and even today) beautiful Russian girls were throwing themselves on American men twice their age, would that happen if a Russian man comes to US?

[wxman]

Wx

Yes there can be mutual mistrust but it is not of the same type and responce.
For example not long ago (and even today) beautiful Russian girls were throwing themselves on American men twice their age, would that happen if a Russian man comes to US?

Mir,

These RW throwing themselves at AM, are not what I would call a typical RW. These type of women that would throw themselves at AM have little love to offer, except for the love of money. They are nothing more than beggars. In reality, very few RW would ever throw themselves at any man. A rich RM in America can find the same type of AW that will throw themselves at him for his money, but it is a small percentage, just like it is with RW. It is only a difference in perception of what wealth is.

[catzenmouse]

Nice Pic Dave!

 Of course it is only fitting that you get the smaller bear! You're only a man and therefore not much more valuable than a child except when it comes to getting things off of high shelves or moving heavy stuff...

 The first and most important thing for her is her English abilities. Ramp up her lessons there, find out about the local ESL options here and the more advanced ESL options at the local college or university. Once she has a good command of the language she can look at upgrading her education or begin to focus on what type of career she would like in the future. Driving lessons there first would also ease the transition of driving here. She won't be able to work until she gets an EAD or her GC so the first 3 - 6 months is a great time to get going on the language lessons.

Ken

[Daveman]

Thank you all very much for the wonderful compliments and the thoughtful suggestions, there are many here and I appreciate them all.  I think hooking her up on that forum is a great idea.  As is giving her a clue bat of her own, and sending her an episode of Cops.  Heh...

Right now, I'm just kicking back and enjoying getting to know all about a wonderful girl, but when questions do come up, sometimes she just doesn't quite get the answers (even when I know she understood what I said) and it makes me think things like "there's no way she's going to fully understand this until she sees it...".  It makes me wonder how much does she need to fully understand, how much doesn't really matter because she'll find out later anyway.  I'd like to avoid hearing "Why never you no say me zees..."  a thousand times, but I guess that is pretty much inevitable about some subjects even if I do tell her all about them.  Because like others have mentioned, it'll all be my fault anyway at first. I just don't want America to smack her over the head too much, and the more realistic she is while still holding optimistic dreams, the easier she will adapt - I think. Hell, most of the time in this venture I'm guessing at most everything it seems.  It's as much of a learning experience for me as it is for her I suppose. At least it is a fun and enjoyable journey.

So far I keep driving the point of English lessons home again and again... and that part is paying off because she is really going all in with the lessons and looking forward to being in school again if it does work out that she comes here.

This may be a bit silly, but it seems to work for me...  I have a favorite photo printed at 8x10 that I took of her when I was with her, and I keep it next to the computer when I write letters or speak to her, and during those times when I get a little flustered at the language barrier, or seemingly "Russianesque" behavior , I look at it and turn it over.. on the back I've written all the wonderful things that touch me about her... how she doted over me, how incredible she was to me when I was ill.. many other more private things.  It immediately allows me to relax, get in the right mindset, and remember why I am doing this, because as others have said.. this is not an easy way to find a soul mate, but I would have to agree that it certainly is a way to find a superior one.

Thanks again everyone...  it's a little overexposed, but here's my favorite picture of a Siberian treasure... just wanted to share an inspiration... I'll ask management to pull the pics in a couple of days so they won't be attached forever.  Sometimes it's interesting to put faces with stories. 

Dave

P.S. Ken, I'll be stuck with the heavy stuff.. but we're both vertically challenged, so It'll take both of us to master the high shelves... she can stand on my shoulders.. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Hey Dave

things gonna be super:)


I like her she looks very cute and pretty

Wanted to compliment her and you:)

[catzenmouse]

Your doing good Dave. Keep the faith and keep pushing those lessons then ESL when she gets here. I would keep pics of Elena as my PC desktop (along with the ones hanging all over the house) and yes it does help to keep you focused when the miscommunications happen. I'll be looking forward to hearing about all those things that happen after she arrives. For me, and many others here, it will be a laugh, a smile, and a nod of understanding as we remember all those same things that we went through. Keep it real, keep it close to your heart, and keep putting extra deposits into that bucket of patience and you'll do fine.

Ken

P. S. Lovely Picture. And add more to the patience bucket

[I/O]

At least it is a fun and enjoyable journey.

IMO this is an important point which perhaps pales into the background at times among the frustrations of language, distance, time zones and other matters.  Maybe there is times when some of us try to get this "A little too perfect" and forget to enjoy the journey.

I/O