Go Wide or Deep ...

[Simoni]

Sorry, I have to disagree with you.....if one wants to meet a women from the FSU.....and one wants to inform themselves about a culture different from their own.....HOW could you tell newbies that 'History' (vacation) is not important ??? 

I'll repeat....a history vacation is NOT important.

If you want a vacation, go to Italy.

If you want a wife, concentrate ALL your efforts on her.  And allow her to show you what she loves about her country.

I did not say you should be ill-informed about world history.  But get that info from books, not a solo guy vacation.

[IAmZon]

Just do it here ...

So I go deep. 

My preference would be to meet people naturally.  That means without the artifice of agencies.  That does not mean that I will not use agencies; that means I would PREFER not to.  So how goes that?

I have no problem making friends - fast.  Although I have never been to the FSU, I am traveled and experienced in other areas, and especially with FSU immigrants.  What do you guys think?  Does everything become different once my passport is stamped "Ukraine", or can I go bowling; clubbing and people and build relationships.  BTW don't speak a lick of Russian.  I can place a nice "ika" on the end of English words, however.

[Wayne B]

I don't remember saying anything about world history  I said FSU/ Woman.....about 'Her Culture'....Maybe this is not so important to some people.....that may think my way/or the highway.....

[Gator]

Simoni,

You and I usually agree about everything.  Not this time.  

1.  Travelling is my passion, and the FSU offers some enjoyable experiences.

2.  Experiencing the culture and life of the FSU people helps immensely to understand the women.

[Gator]

Rivardco,

Without knowing the language, you can not just hang out in the smaller cities.  Kiev, Moscow and St. Piter, yes, but with some difficulty.  Nearly impossible in cities of 1 million.

Going to a club allows contact with women who frequent clubs.  Is this the type of woman you seek.

In Dnepropetrovsk, you can screen hundreds of women at agency catalogues and then select a few who seem to have the same interests, goals and values as you (and who are intrigued by the concept of marrying an American).  Cost $10-20 per meeting, about the price of buying two drinks at a club to talk to a woman who may not even like Americans. 

[wxman]

Why do we choose to find a woman from the FSU? If it has nothing to do with her culture or values, then why travel half way around the world? Reading books provides one with only the view of the writer. Viewing with my own eyes her culture, provides me an insight that a book could never give me. Yes, his main goal is to find a mate, but discovering a different culture, opens one's eyes to the rest of the world. One can do both. Multi tasking is a great skill to have.  

[catzenmouse]

BTW don't speak a lick of Russian.  I can place a nice "ika" on the end of English words, however.

TFF! I'm sure if you try that you'll get one of two responses: A blank stare or laughter.

I understand that you have experiences with FSU people - who live here! That is not the same as being in the FSU and interacting in normal situations.

The main reason I say "just go" is that it will really give you a feel for the culture that you are thinking about being a part of. Lots of ways to do it but until you do you have no point of reference.

Ken

P. S. I just talked with Gator and we're going to take Simoni out back of the wood shed and have a talk with him...

P. P. S. Wxman posted before I did and I say "Right on the money!"

[macman]

Wxman,

I agree totally. . . read, study, learn and more reading.  If someone thinks that this is an easier way to eye-candy, that someone will have more than their hands full.  My international dating experience tells me this; the more I know the more we grow.  This is precisely the reason it appears to take more than one jump across the Atlantic to find that special one.  We (me) goes for the adventure and to find the woman that is like the women of our past post WWII generation;  family oriented, partner and truly gifted in homemaking.  The difference is now simply this:

We men now know how to pay attention to details and have learned to be better help-mates and not hurt-mates.  RW or any foreign women for that matter who have their heads on straight will gravitate to a man that is truly good in his desires, intention and will provide, promote and protect a woman.

Funny thing - it took the feminist movement and some 60s activity for men to realise these things, and of course that pendulum got way out of wack or we'd still be courting AW. . . But then those women are now addicted to Sex in the City, desperate housewives and numerous other anti-family presentations that flood the airwaves.


Dang - sorry - more than 2cents.

Macman. . .

[groovlstk]

I hate to sound like a philistine but I'm with simoni on this one.

During my search, with vacation time limiting me to a maximum of five weeks on the ground in the FSU each year, I always made meeting women my priority; tourism was very much a secondary goal. That isn't to say that I didn't respect her culture; I read voraciously about the histories of places I visited and, when I was meeting girls, most of the time (but not always) they were very eager to show me the museums, monuments, and cultural institutions of their cities. It was like killing two birds with one stone, and the women who weren't interested in their own culture enough to want to show it off to me I ultimately wrote off as boring.

Now, I'm really going to get myself in trouble, but to you new guys with limited time on the ground: do you really want to know your girl? If so, live in her flat, wash your clothes in her bathtub, take the marshrutka instead of taxis each day. Eat food you bought together at the produkty and cooked at home. Eat dinner with her family and friends on mismatched dinnerware, down a few liters of vodka.

It's all great to spend a week with her in Moscow or Kiev, but do so after you've got the basics down.

[catzenmouse]

Groov,

 I think maybe you are on both sides if I read your post correctly. Yes! Use your time wisely and focus on the woman that you are there to be with! But, you also used that time to become one with the culture. Notice that I said "for the first timer" and that is really the best time to just get your feet wet and not the time to make a life altering decision. (Yes it can and has been done but please let's not go there in this thread. Thank you.)

Ken

[Wayne B]

Just do it here ...

So I go deep. 

My preference would be to meet people naturally.  That means without the artifice of agencies.  That does not mean that I will not use agencies; that means I would PREFER not to.  So how goes that?

I have no problem making friends - fast.  Although I have never been to the FSU, I am traveled and experienced in other areas, and especially with FSU immigrants.  What do you guys think?  Does everything become different once my passport is stamped "Ukraine", or can I go bowling; clubbing and people and build relationships.  BTW don't speak a lick of Russian.  I can place a nice "ika" on the end of English words, however.

                                                                                                                                      rivardco, I can say to you, yes bowling is a very good option....expect to pay a little more money vs bowling in America.......If you like to play pool.....Russian Billiards....many women like to play this game, wheather they are good or not......clubbing for sure....a very popular night club, is interesting to many women/men in FSU.....more for women, because their is not much more to do during a day off from work.....most of the time only 1 day off for the majority of FSUW.....so they want to be with their friends and catch up on what has been going on with each others families and friends....but, they would or should I say...that she would love to have a man beside her, that enjoys her for who she is and in return if you can gain her 'respect'......you will be rewarded in more ways than you could ever imagine......I do think for a first visit....a wise choice is to meet a woman that has a good English vocabulary or a 'Woman Interpreter'......for many reasons....not for what your first thought may be....but, for super-market, night-club ect;

[SANDRO43]

P. S. I just talked with Gator and we're going to take Simoni out back of the wood shed and have a talk with him...

Sorry I can't join you, considering the distance. Please add how unthoughtful and inconsiderate he was, suggesting the Reluctant Rover to head our way .

[catzenmouse]

Sorry I can't join you, considering the distance. Please add how unthoughtful and inconsiderate he was, suggesting the Reluctant Rover to head our way .

No worries Sandro. When I get a hold of Alfie I'll buy you a ticket so you won't miss out on any of the 'fun'...

How's the weather over there? Nice but a bit stormy here right now.

Ken

[ScottinCrimea]

To go to such a fascinating place like the FSU with the single minded mentality, "Gotta find a woman!  Gotta find a woman!"  is absolutely nuts.  For the first timer especially, that is one objective, sure, but like others have said, you also need to get the feel of the place and experience what it's all about or you'll never completely understand your FSUW.  To sit holed up in a hotel room funneling in and out as many women as possible doesn't do it.  Sure, you may find the right woman, but she won't have found the right man.

One thing to keep in mind when you go is to be sure it's a place with something to do.  You'll go nuts after awhile in a smaller city, especially not speaking the language.  It's also important to have some interesting things to do with the women you meet.  I would definitely not go intending to leave the social agenda to her.  They don't appreciate that even if you think you are being courteous by deferring to her preferences.  Learn enough about the city, the sights, the restaurants, etc that you can suggest where to go and what to do.

Don't be so focused and single minded that anything less than coming home with an FSUW would be considered a failure.  Relax, enjoy what's there and have a great time.

[wxman]

Now, I'm really going to get myself in trouble, but to you new guys with limited time on the ground: do you really want to know your girl? If so, live in her flat, wash your clothes in her bathtub, take the marshrutka instead of taxis each day. Eat food you bought together at the produkty and cooked at home. Eat dinner with her family and friends on mismatched dinnerware, down a few liters of vodka.

No truer words said!

[SANDRO43]

How's the weather over there? Nice but a bit stormy here right now.

We had been experiencing an early summer since mid April - Philip could confirm this - then this week we also had a number of rain storms, bringing the temperature down to 15-20°C from its previous 30°+C. I was planning an early dash to the Tuscany sea coast, but that will have to wait some, forecast is still for unsettled weather .

[Bruce]

Simoni or Gator.  Can I say both are right?  You have to know a bit about the culture to get the girl - but its the girls, girls, girls isn't it  ?.  If I had to choose one side to error on I'd say girls, but culture is so important.  You might as well see the cultural sights with the girl as your guide at least first time around.  There are cultural sights in every place I have been for sure.  If not, there must be great natural sights. 

Dnepropetrovsk - I've never been there but I know it is more off the beaten path for Ukraine.  Like Gator says, you can sure whittle down the girls more by using legitimate agencies while there than hanging out at a bar meeting girls who like Italians for example and hate Americans. 

Like Groove says, get off the duff and go.  I'd add to stop the endless needless letter writing fantasy already. 

[Simoni]

Does everything become different once my passport is stamped "Ukraine", or can I go bowling; clubbing and people and build relationships.  BTW don't speak a lick of Russian. 

Of course it's different.  You'll need to find the girls who speak English if you want to build relationships.

You can find such English speaking girls when friends introduce them to you.  You can find English speaking girls via a dating agency.

But yes (sigh), there is a difference when you are immersed in a non-English speaking culture.

Many here have ventured into those waters, and brought a fine "catch" home.  You can do the same, with hard work and luck.

[Simoni]

Simoni,

You and I usually agree about everything.  Not this time.  

1.  Travelling is my passion, and the FSU offers some enjoyable experiences.

2.  Experiencing the culture and life of the FSU people helps immensely to understand the women.

Gator,  My post was about the importance of focus, and not confusing a vacation with finding the best woman for you.  When you have precious little time, why invest half of it in solo guy activities?  Instead, meet girls, lots of them, in an attempt to find that special someone.  Then, with her, take your vacation.

[SANDRO43]

Here's an elegant solution to the girls/culture dilemma: pursue cultured girls .

[BC]

Here's an elegant solution to the girls/culture dilemma: pursue cultured girls .

I didn't know they sold petri dishes that size..

[Gator]

Simoni,

Your elaboration helps.  And I agree not to do solo activities unless you are positioning yourself in a group with many women. 

Look at this photo for such an example.  Yalta, tour of garden (one of my hobbies).  Two men and about 10 women (one of them my date).  Maybe one speaks English and thinks Rivardco is a hunk.

I still go with my original position:  meet a few women selected from agency catalogue and let them immerse you in their culture.   There are some potential problems such as her uncle may get you so drunk that you can not ask his niece some serious questions (or your knee may hurt from her fat cousin sitting on it).

[Simoni]

Well said, Gator 

[SANDRO43]

I didn't know they sold petri dishes that size..

Oh yes, only they call them Jacuzzi now .