Do you think this hurts the genuine guys?

[Lily]

As far as guys who write and never visit hurting the "genuine" guys, it really shouldn't matter unless the girl is less than serious or even worse stupid. 
 

Agree that the never visiting people would hardly damage the reputation of serious marriage seekers. They pursue different goals.

There are people for whom a marriage would eventually be not a good idea but they still want a woman's company, at least an online one. Sort of a substitute for real relationship. If someone's emails make a day for someone it is allright. What is important here is not to make any illusions.

As for the visits, I think that as far it is not in the U.S., a woman should be able to make a visit, too.

[Mir]

A number of people have commented the improving economic situation In Russia and the FSU will reduce if not remove the opportunities to meet women there as they currently exist.  Frankly I don't entirely agree with this as I see Russia now being in one of it's historical eco/political cycles and perhaps ending up right back where it started. However, I do suspect the opportunities will reduce for another reason and that is the the constant flow of idiots onto websites and to some extent into Russia itself who have no hope, means or intention of ever getting serious about a Russian woman. Who can blame the Russian women for becoming skeptical?

I agree that the economic improvement can be a myth and shortlived. Russia is thriving on high oil/energy prices and the money is being wasted. So it is possible if they can earn by selling oil/gas the economy will tumble. Also the democratic process has been stalled and reversed that can only have bad results.
I think now there are many RW/WM couples in the west. Many such are happy unions but there are several failures as well. These people who have been active on their forums are highlighting the problems of these relationships. Some people who read their stories will decide that this is not a pursuit for them.
So the flow of men from West looking for women in FSU might decline and those who do look may have less competition

[I/O]

Mir, you should understand that the number of WM who visit, read or even participate in forums such as this are but a fraction of the number involved in this pursuit. IIRC I had 4 or maybe 5 trips to the FSU before I even realised forums of any sort existed.  Only then did I start to read a few travel forums and decided they were stacked so full of BS that I didn't bother with any others for ages. I think you'll find a squillion other dumbarses like me out there.

I/O

[Mir]

I/O

You are right but still as the Western men get more exposed to FSU women a lot of myths are dieing.
Some fools thought that they can just import a beautiful woman from FSU and she will be so thankful for the rescue that she will be an obedient slave. Now many know better and therefore might not feel they will get what they want from FSU.

[Nando]

Some fools thought that they can just import a beautiful woman from FSU and she will be so thankful for the rescue that she will be an obedient slave. Now many know better and therefore might not feel they will get what they want from FSU.

You are wrong Mir!

MANY fools think they can just import a beautiful woman from FSU and she will be so thankful for the rescue that she will be an obedient slave.

And you know what?

If they show off their money they can!
Off course after sometime the obedient FSU woman will search for a better prospect after a divorce. At least she can search for a better looking one after receiving a good amount of assets

[macman]

Along the same lines: Would you tell the prospective mates the WMVM - WFVF - WOVO and of course the now infamous WMVMFM that most of us seem to find quite distasteful.

In other words, a good man with pure intentions can and should visit more than 1 at a time.  Should he share this with the women?  I already did BUT, I had to explain it very thoroughly and why I felt that way.  No woman wishes to be second fiddle!


macMan

[viking]

If the guy has already been over there and has some photos standing in Red Square or in front of the Hermitage, as an example, he can during the writing process include these in his correspondence. He can say, he is serious, been there before, (here is proof) and is willing to go back again FOR THE RIGHT PERSON. At least the gal knows this guy got off his butt and got on a plane. It is now up to them to determine if there is enough chemistry to warrant another trip, and this will take some time. If she needs a guy to come over yesterday because she does not like  'long correspondence' and needs to get married two days before yesterday, then its time for the guy to say "next".

[I/O]

No woman wishes to be second fiddle! macMan

Therefore I find the whole visit many debate and search for advice as to how to do that, rather irritating. One is either sharp enough to pull it off or they are not.  Frankly speaking, someone who needs advice regarding how to go about a visit many trip is likely not sharp enough to pull it off anyway.

I/O

[macman]

One man's sharp is another man's butter knife. . .  Personally, I am not a newbie at international travel and/or relationships thereof.  I AM a newbie at WMVM and while I have to concern myself with me and my heart, I don't truly believe it has a whole bunch to do with being sharp, dull or anything in between!

 

[chivo]

While telling or not telling her you visiting others might be debatable, why offer up the information unless asked. Even then one should decide if its worth it or not to tell her until your sure she's the right one.

Even under the best circumstances, her English level will most likely cause misunderstandings with most explanations.

personally I wouldn't tell her even if she's the only one. Its not like she's going to believe you anyway. Only when the relationship is firmly established, and she sees your true intentions will she believe it.  well, if she's sincere.

A simple "I'm here to see if we can make a future together" if asked will not only answer the question, but satisfy your conscious, without dealing with any of the BS.

Of course she would never lie to you. good luck

chivo

[Simoni]

No woman wishes to be second fiddle!

True.

But what most WOVO guys don't realize is-- many girls are writing multiple men!  Even if they say they are not.

And that's from the horses mouth....ex GFs who later discussed the process with me.

[macman]

Great Point Chivo,

It has been my very recent experience that when I share that I am coming to Russia to see a few cities, learn the history and - I would like to see you dear -  the first question they are asking.  "So you are seeing several Russian cities and history for you is important?  Are you sure it's not for a woman in every city?"

Welllll dear, yes - it's both.  But travel is not lip service for me.  I think that's the main skeptisim that they all have.

c ya
mm

[SANDRO43]

And that's from the horses mouth....ex GFs who later discussed the process with me.

You were engaged to a 2-legged philly ? Aahh, finally I discover where this REALLY came from .

[MaxxumUSA]

Along the same lines: Would you tell the prospective mates the WMVM - WFVF - WOVO and of course the now infamous WMVMFM that most of us seem to find quite distasteful.

macMan

WMVMFM     <----------          ??????????????????

[Simoni]

You were engaged to a 2-legged philly ? Aahh, finally I discover where this REALLY came from .

shhhh....that was top secret!  Now I will have to retire her!!!    LOL

[macman]

Sorry Bro. . .  no can do.  I want one and will ML2O that is "the" one.  Too many years of experience and too much God!  It's more a spiritual thing for me.  

[macman]

AND my AW wife was in movies, magazines and had ALL the stuff. . . whoops!

Honestly, it's about the phenomena of Russian - American relationships. . . From the early 1900s to this very day.  It's a study of passion and difference that go way back.  Good reading for those that are on a romantic adventure, and guess what - walk straight, stay the course, and you will have the adventure you are seeking - BUT, the woman is "not" the adventure - she must be a part (participate) in the adventure.  It is a phenomena!

MacMan

[macman]

MaxumUSA,

WMVMFM is something I dervied from a TR that occured earlier. . .

Read Pikes TR and you will be able to discern what WMVM"F"M is . . . It started quite a lengthy discourse on the board.  I am a "newbee" and don't really wish to judge or express much about this subject.  My flesh and heart are always in some sort of confilct with one another on this topic - CONUS or elsewhere . . .

[William3rd]

That without comment trip report should be a STR.

FWIW-

I did WMVO, WMVF, and WOVO in the past. And had more than my share of socials.

My current GF was and shall ever be WOVO.

WMVO was select 20 and initiate contact. I got 50% responses and then did a second round of letters. That cut the ten to five. Quickly went to two by attrition (the girls dont have the time or desire to spend all day on a letter writing campaign, either)and then there was only one. The one was my first choice at the beginning. We had a 2 week vacation together and things fell apart shortly after I came home. 

Too many guys out there doing WMVMFM these days. A hoard of BS artists-all very SERIOUS ( oh sure) men looking for a wife- inundating the agencies. Some younger looking for scalps. Many older-losing their toupees, their viagra, and whoever knows what else trying to get into some woman's pants. So they can validate their self-image, I guess.

There is something inherently dishonest about the STR guys- they arent really searching for a wife. It would be cheaper for them just to stay at home and rent

[Wayne B]

WMVMFM     <----------          ??????????????????

  Dave, I think he meant....Will My Virtual Man Find Me?......

[Simoni]

Too many guys out there doing WMVMFM these days. A hoard of BS artists-all very SERIOUS ( oh sure) men looking for a wife- inundating the agencies. Some younger looking for scalps. Many older-losing their toupees, their viagra, and whoever knows what else trying to get into some woman's pants. So they can validate their self-image, I guess.

Yes, and these guys are doing SERIOUS damage to the image of American and our men.

Next time I see one of these jerks in an FSU internet cafe, I'll be tempted to punch him out.

[I/O]

STR guys- they arent really searching for a wife. It would be cheaper for them just to stay at home and rent

Been saying the same thing for years.  Must be something about the thrill of the chase that does it for them.  No other logical explanation I can think of.

I/O

[Daveman]

I knew nothing about the forums.  I used Elenasmodels.com and read her E-book "how to marry a girl like me."  I only found the forums AFTER my first trip.  I was going nuts not being able to talk about my experience with like minded fellows so I sought a forum out.

From that E-Book I actually followed about 80% of her advice.  Some of the advice I used common sense to weed out. 

That was my first trip too. The only reference I had was the same E-book.  There's quite a bit of good information there, but also some seriously flawed hype.  But as you say, common sense weeds out the less than stellar advice.

Macman, Sorry I confused you with one of the newbies asking about a scammer in the intro thread and was giving YOU newbie advice.  It's quite the nadbuster being illiterate... I'll have to work on that.  Looking forward to hearing more about your adventures in Estonia as well...

Dave

[MaxxumUSA]

WMVMFM     <----------          ??????????????????

I'm sorry...  I am kind of missing this

WMVMFM = WMVMBM = Write Many Visit Many Bed Many?  This is the only thing I can guess.  I can fill in the blank with the F word.  Am I on track?

[Simoni]

Yep