Putin talks tough at G8

[Mir]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/02/10/putin-speech.html

Revival of the cold war?

[BC]

Article is a bit dated..

Last Updated: Saturday, February 10, 2007

Lets see what happens at the summit.

[wxman]

G8 summit...nothing more than a soapbox for the leaders to beat their chests...and of course a nice vacation.

[Rvrwind]

and of course a nice vacation.

You forgot to add "at the taxpayers expense!"

[Mir]

Sorry
Here are his latest ramblings

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/03/sports/putin.php

[ScottinCrimea]

It's not all business at the G-8 sommit.  Your tax dollars at work:

G8 Summit Resort Includes Nude Beach
 
President George W. Bush has often expressed his admiration for the yearning for freedom in Communist East Germany that led to the collapse of the Berlin Wall on his father's watch 18 years ago.

But the U.S. president may get more freedom than he bargained for next month at the G8 summit here in Heiligendamm, as this Baltic coast resort includes a beach long popular with local nudists.

"There's no greater joy than sitting on the beach without any clothes on," said Rudolf Schuetze, a retired government accountant who has spent the last 40 summers doing just that about 100 meters west of the Kempinski Grand Hotel.

"I hope Bush will come down and join us," added Schuetze, 66, sitting nude on a beach near the hotel where world leaders will meet. "It's good for your health. All your troubles disappear when you give your body the sun, air and water it needs.

Several dozen men, women and children of all ages, shapes and sizes wore nothing but smiles and seamless tans on a recent hot afternoon, just west of the elegant complex where Chancellor Angela Merkel will host the meeting of world leaders.

Old habits die hard in a part of the world where stripping down naked at the beach or in camping grounds was a subtle but popular form of rebellion against the Communist rulers.

While many nudists on the beach here, known as the "Kinderstrand", complained tight security may force them elsewhere, Schuetze is a resident of this small town and is confident he will be free to lie naked near the summit.

Even though it is hard to imagine a security threat from naked sunbathers - who, after all, can't conceal anything - many said they would retreat to other beaches just beyond a new security fence ringing the town.

"It's a free country now," said Schuetze, who spent 27 years working as an accountant in the environment ministries of East Germany, and later reunited Germany. "No one can take that away from us. In the east, skinny-dipping was a symbol of freedom."

Western Germans are generally not accustomed to so much flesh and sometimes complain to their hotel managers or tour operators. On occasion tempers flare if easterners strip down on beaches where skinny-dipping is expressly verboten.

"The Wessies are almost as prudish as the Americans," said Christiane Rose, 41, a hairdresser with a full body tan and a friendly smile. "It would do Bush some good to come down and join us. It'll give him a new 'Weltanschauung' (world view)."

[wxman]

There is just one thing that confuses me about Mr Putin. I know he is very opposed to the so called US missile shield and radar site in eastern Europe as he feels there is no threat. Yet, he offers to have the radar site in Azerbaijan which borders Iran. So he must feel there is even a greater threat from Iran than the west feels, that he would reccommend a radar site near the border of Iran, for even earlier warning. If the US would accept that offer, he would then not have a problem with the missiles in eastern Europe. Very confusing to say on one hand there is no threat, and then to offer to build the radar near the Iranian border.  Why make such an offer if you believe no threat exists?

[Mir]

Wxman

Much of the political outburst are for domestic consumption.

However when Putin says there is no threat he means that Western Europe has no threat from Russia. So he says why are they placing the radars/missiles in Eastern Europe which is next to Russia and suggests to place them on the Iranian border.

[BC]

There is just one thing that confuses me about Mr Putin. I know he is very opposed to the so called US missile shield and radar site in eastern Europe as he feels there is no threat. Yet, he offers to have the radar site in Azerbaijan which borders Iran. So he must feel there is even a greater threat from Iran than the west feels, that he would reccommend a radar site near the border of Iran, for even earlier warning. If the US would accept that offer, he would then not have a problem with the missiles in eastern Europe. Very confusing to say on one hand there is no threat, and then to offer to build the radar near the Iranian border.  Why make such an offer if you believe no threat exists?

It is actually quite simple..

By posting missles on the European border effectively limits any RU 'limited' attack with missiles anywhere west of their border whether conventional or not.  This 'defense shield' if consisted of 10 anti missiles would require RU to fire 11 in order to get where they want.

Putins request to relocate seems a much better solution.

IIRC Bush back in 2001 quit the ABM treaty, not RU.  http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/rec.bush.abm/

There were good reasons that this treaty existed in the first place.

In any case in today's world it seems that unilateral actions are the real troublemakers.

[wxman]

BC,

Putin still makes no sense. Why claim there is no nuclear threat from Iran for the last year, and then suggest building a radar in Azerbaijan near the Iranian border? Sounds like he thinks there is a significant threat from Iran. Seems his suggestion would actually inflame the situation even more, with Iran feeling even more threatened, and Iran would think Russia is becoming less trustworthy than before. 

Mir,

Putin only suggested the radar in Azerbaijan. The missiles would still be in Eastern Europe. Again, if there is no threat from Iran, why concede at all? By suggesting building a radar in  Azerbaijan, it sounds like he is backpeddaling, and to some, was wrong all along.

[BC]

BC,

Putin still makes no sense. Why claim there is no nuclear threat from Iran for the last year, and then suggest building a radar in Azerbaijan near the Iranian border? Sounds like he thinks there is a significant threat from Iran. Seems his suggestion would actually inflame the situation even more, with Iran feeling even more threatened, and Iran would think Russia is becoming less trustworthy than before. 

I don't think Putin is really worried about Iran.  Obviously when Bush pulled back from the ABM treaty this also allowed them to work on some systems we may not know about.  The problem seems to be having radar pointed at a large portion of industrialized RU instead of relative emptiness.

Bush will find some way to weasel out of a cooperative effort I am sure, along the lines that Iran could easily bomb the radar site..  OTOH Iran when faced with a cooperative effort between RU and USA would probably be quite lame.

Is funny when Bush mentions North Korea when discussing this issue with RU.. Anyone looking at a globe can tell that radars and ABM's in Europe don't have a chance in hell of catching up with a N. Korean missle going the other direction.  Working closely with RU could really enhance that effort.

World and esp. European opinion will likely shift even more if Bush refuses the deal.  IIRC Putin early on was demanding that EU nations as a whole should ratify Bush's plans beforehand - I don't see much of a chance of that happening since the population doesn't want it.

Governments doing what the majority of voters don't want... strange 'Democracy' indeed.

[wxman]

Obviously when Bush pulled back from the ABM treaty this also allowed them to work on some systems we may not know about. 

When Putin came out and stated that they had created new weapons, such as new short range nuclear cruise missiles, etc, to counter this threat from the US, I found it quite amusing. The US hasn't even built this toy shield yet, but the Russians built new weapons to counter it?  Those new weapons have been in design and testing for years, and were not to counter this toy shield. Russians along with the US were both going to violate the treaties anyway. If Bush was smart, he would accept Putin's offer and then we will see how quickly the tune changes with regards to Azerbaijan allowing the radar on their soil, and still allowing the missile shield in eastern Europe. It's a chess game. In the end, the shield will never get built as there will be a new administration, congress may not even fund it, Iran's government could change and so on. 

[BC]

WX,

If Bush was smart, he would accept Putin's offer and then we will see how quickly the tune changes with regards to Azerbaijan allowing the radar on their soil, and still allowing the missile shield in eastern Europe. It's a chess game. In the end, the shield will never get built as there will be a new administration, congress may not even fund it, Iran's government could change and so on. 

I agree.. in the end who knows what will develop.  I can only hope that if this effort goes forward it will be a cooperative one.

BTW does Bush play chess?

[wxman]

WX,

I agree.. in the end who knows what will develop.  I can only hope that if this effort goes forward it will be a cooperative one.

BTW does Bush play chess?

I think he thinks checkers is chess. The boards look the same to him and he likes to say "King me" 

[BC]

I think he thinks checkers is chess. The boards look the same to him and he likes to say "King me" 

Good chuckle over that one.. after a bit of serious thinking though I find your observation is spot on..