Advice about travel to/in Ukraine

[Totoro]

Hi everybody,
it seems very soon I'll have the pleasure of making my first trip to FSU, and actually meet the lovely lady I've been writing to for the last few months.
We planned to spend together almost 2 weeks this summer, according to her vacation time. Today she informed me that she'll be free for 2 weeks from July 30, so we'll meet on July 31 and will be together until August 11, when we'll both leave for our homes... yes, because I. is from Belarus, but doesn't want to let her family know about her abroad search until she actually finds a man, so we agreed to meet in Ukraine and have a vacation together.
I know, this is usually a red flag, but it's the only unusual thing about her so far, so I'm going to take the risk and trust her. Worst that can happen, she turns out to be a skillful pro-dater and I won't hear from her again after the summer. Even so it's worth it, I'll have a nice vacation and good company in any case.
Therefore, now I have to carefully plan this trip. As far as I know, the only document I need to enter U. is my passport (I'm from the EU, Italian), so unless I'm missing something there's no problem here.
We're going to spend some days in Kiev and some in Odessa. That's where your advice is most sorely needed... how do I travel between the two cities? Is there a regular train service, can I just go to the station and buy the tickets the day before leaving, just like I do here?
And, most important, what's the best way to set up my return trip? I mean, my flight will leave from Kiev, but the second part of the trip will be in Odessa... is it OK to leave from O. in the morning to catch a flight in the afternoon? Or maybe I'd be better advised to make put Odessa in the middle of the trip, thus spending for example 3 days in Kiev, 5 in Odessa and again 2 days in Kiev?
As for accommodation, I've found some apartments for rent on this site:
http://www.ukrainefare.com/
The places seem nice enough and not too expensive. Do you know this site to be good and reliable, or there are much better deals somewhere?
That's all for now... I'm sure that your experience will prove invaluable for this trip, so I'll thank you all in advance. Thank you ^_^

[Daveman]

Hey Totoro,
Don't worry about the family thing... It's not a big deal on the first meeting... Others will tell you to immediately meet her family.. I disagree. I think this puts undue pressure on the first meeting.  You will travel to see her again, and that is the best time to meet the family after your relations together are more solidified.  Just focus on HER... not a red flag at all in my opinion... many ladies are shy about meeting/dating a foreigner and don't tell anyone but close friends until there is substance to the relationship.

As far as travel in Ukraine, I love the train system.. But Odessa is a tourist city.. during the summer trains going there can be packed so, it can be difficult to travel to Odessa, or Simferopol on short notice.  Airlines will probably be booked out as well, and any available seats may be more than you wish to pay.  Your option may be to hire a car.  You probably don't want to drive yourself.. there are some problems with rental cars in Ukraine from what I've heard (from Ukrainians) that if the car does happen to break down while you are driving, that YOU are responsible for the repairs... true or not? I don't know.. I think attempting to drive there is probably suicidal at best anyway.. however, you can get transport by car fairly reasonable... let your girl handle the negotiations.. She's a foreigner there too, but she'll be able to negotiate a much better deal than you will because she speaks the language and can argue a bit.

Dave

[Mir]

Totoro

I am sure you will have a great time.
As regards internal travel I would recommend air, 2 train is a viable option but the trains are rather slow. Still it is possible to get overnight trains and there are many such connections. The train takes 10-12 hours and can be a romantic experience since you can book a whole sleeper. The problem is getting the tickets. You will need to buy the tickets at the booking office or the station and it can be difficult. I had this experience and even with a Russian speaker with me we were sent from one window to the other and one office to the other ending up in a long queue.
Booking airtickets is dead easy, for example you can take the Aerosvit flight to Odessa leaving Kiev at 1330 on the 6th of August, arriving Odessa 1440. Then on the 11th you can take the flight from Odessa 0900 reaching Kiev 1010. The cost of this flight is $214 including taxes and you can book on line
http://www.eb2-quicktrip.com/VV/Start.do;jsessionid=ECE49A40EDF78C26AD438A7384EF8282
There are 3 flights daily.
The domestic and international terminals at Borispol(Kiev) are side by side so you can catch your plane unless it is very early on the 11th. I would not recommend staying in Kiev on return unless this is unavoidable. The reason is that you will have to go to central Kiev again and it will cost around $60 to go and come again when you leave.
I would certainly banish any thoughts of renting a car and driving from Kiev to Odessa, too uncomfortable, too expensive, not safe and not worth it.
Also make sure you book your airport transfer from Borispol and Odessa. I recommend to do this with the agency who you rent the flat from as this will be slightly cheaper and you won't have to search for the flat.
There are many agencies renting flats in Kiev. I have used a few thought I have not used the one you have mentioned. I think all of them are safe and reliable. By and large you get what you pay for. So if you find prices with one agency much lower then the apartment quality will be lower. What you need to consider is:
Do you want a studio flat (here there is one room with abed and a sofa bed,a kitchen area and bathroom) or a one bedroom flat (the bedroom and living room are separate so the living room works as bedroom at night)? I would not recommend a two bedroom flat unless your companion wants to pay half the rent.
What luxuries do you want ?and here I would strongly recommend air-conditioning since Kiev can get really hot in summer.
Location: I would suggest somewhere near Kryschatyk, and this could be wither end (Independence square or near Mandarin plaza) or in between.
The benefit of lets say 7 days in Kiev and 5 in Odessa is that you can negotiate the rent better then shorter stays. It might be possible to negotiate free airport transfers from the agencies and/or reduction in rents.
I would expect to pay around $80 pernight in Kiev and 70 in Odessa.
Also note that many quote dollar price on website but ask payment in local currency and you end-up paying a bit more due to conversion.
This is the agency I have used http://www.kievlet.com/default.aspx?sm=a_a
I can't say they are the cheapest but they are reliable, owner is a British ex-pat Gary Pollard.
Ask me if you need anymore advice.
Goodluck

[ScottinCrimea]

Mir's description might be a little confusing because they don't call apartments one bedrooom, two-bedroom, etc.  I know some guys who rented a place and were surprised when they didn't have a separate bedroom, so here's a little primer,  When they count rooms, they don't include the kitchen or the bathroom.  The kitchen is typically its own separate room but may also be part of the main room. A one room apartment has one main room with a sofa sleeper called a divan.  A two room apartment has one separate bedroom and a two room apartment has two separate bedrooms, etc...

[Totoro]

Thank you all. Since this is the first time we meet, I'm going to take an apartment with 2 separate beds... well, not exactly. It'll be an apt with 1 bedroom and a convertible sofa in the living room. At first I'm going to sleep on the sofa-bed, but of course I hope to be allowed in the bed with her (not necessarily for sex... just sleeping together is good too) after some time ^_^
I've found more info on trains on the net, and I think I'll make the Kiev-Odessa trip by night train. According to this old info (2001) this is what I'll take:

*Spalny vagon* - ("sleeping car") is a compartment with 2 comfortable beds.

Sounds like a nice little adventure... only problem is that, to be sure that I'll find a ticket, it's better to find someone in Ukr who can buy it for me now.
There are some trustworthy guides in Kiev, right? I don't need their guide/translation services (my girl speaks a good english, and I like exploring new places), but maybe I could hire one of them to buy the tickets now and give them to me when I go there...

[Wayne B]

Totoro, yes all you will need for travel is your passport.......Try uaapartments.com I have used them twice and everything was ok....they have affiliates in Odessa......Travel by plane to Odessa and you can book on line with Aerosvit and print your e-ticket.....once you get to Kiev you will walk over to terminal A the smaller airport and turn you e-ticket into a paper ticket.....usually they do not open the Aerosvit booth until 12 noon their time.... Usually the airplane from Kiev to Odessa is a prop driven plane from the 80s but, it is safe  They do charge more if you luggage(S) exceeds normal weight.....you can exchange Euros in the Main airport terminal B at a fair rate......If I can think of anything else....I will tell you  

[Mir]

Scot

I don't know about Simferopol(and I doubt any tourists ever stay there) but everywhere else the agecncies renting apartments have the discriptions I have mentioned:
Studio
One-Bedroom
Two-Bedroom

You can check here

http://www.kievapartmentslux.com/
http://www.apartments.kiev.ua/
http://www.kievhotelservice.com/kievapartments.html
http://www.apartmentsapart.com/Europe/Ukraine/Kiev/Apartments

Also since each site describes the apartment I don't know why there should be any confusion about what he is booking unless someone with local knowledge wants to confuse him.

Totro

This agency can buy tickets for you:
http://travel-2-ukraine.com/transportation/train-tickets.htm

Also read

http://www.seat61.com/Ukraine2.htm

[ScottinCrimea]

Mir, you're not entirely correct since the second site you listed does it the way I described and then puts the Western way in parentheses.  You have to remember here that you are dealing with an agency that is advertising specifically to Westerners and so uses phrases that are familiar to them.  And in looking at the prices, I see that you are paying for this.  If you want to save money and work with the local agencies or individual owners, expect them to describe apartments as I did.  The descriptions on the websites you listed are not the norm here and most Ukrainians wouldn't understand the terms one bedroom and two bedroom without an explanation.

I don't know about Simferopol(and I doubt any tourists ever stay there) but everywhere else the agecncies renting apartments have the discriptions I have mentioned:

I found this quote rather condescending and insulting to the city I live in.  And your personal experience with Simferopol is...? The idea that "everywhere else" but Simferopol does it the proper way and we do it wrong here is jsut plain wrong.  Everywhere I have rented an apartment in Ukraine it has been described as I wrote.  Of course I have enough sense to not book the expensive apartments that you do.

[groovlstk]

Scot

I don't know about Simferopol(and I doubt any tourists ever stay there)

I spent some time in Simferopal two Summers ago. It's a great little city, and very reasonable.

I included an account about it in a TR I did long ago, here:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=670.0

[Mir]

Scott

We are advising a man who sits in Italy and planning an holiday in Ukraine.
I see little point in telling him how locals describe apartments.Where is he going to contact these locals?
Personally I have rented apartments in Kiev, Sevastopol, Odessa and Livvy without any problems and any confusion.
Yes you live in Simferopol and it must be a great city, yet I don't think it will be the first or even among the first 5 cities in Ukraine I would advice a tourist to visit and in this regard it does not make any difference that my only experience of this city is to have been driven through it.
I live in Leeds and it is a great city, but if someone is comming to UK for a holiday for the first time I will tell them to visit a few other cities first.

[ScottinCrimea]

My post was intended to be informational.  When he tells his girl that he rented a one bedroom apartment she will understand one room apartment and think he is assuming that they will share a bed.  It helps to know how the locals think.  I assume that you rented all of these apartments through some online service or agency.  You rent from someone who advertises a one bedroom apartment, you're going to pay twice as much as if you rented it from someone advertising it as a two room apartment.

[Mir]

Scott

Yes you are right and it is best to be aware of all possibilities.
I hope he has a reasonable degree of communication with the lady.
So he can explain to her what he has rented and if he doesn't I am sure if she is one of those who has such concerns she will ask.

[Totoro]

I have seen the different kind of apartments, and I'll stick with my first choice: apt with 1 bedroom and 1 living room (with sofa-bed), however you call it ^_^
Found some nice places at about $60-$65, wth A/C and several commodities... sounds reasonable. My I. is informed about the accommodation, hasn't replied yet.
Thanks everybody for all the advice. This is going to be a GREAT trip!

[HiTech]

Totoro: One question, what is your backup plan?

I would suggest that you at minimum you grab a list phone numbers of agencies in Odessa and Kiev.

[Totoro]

Backup Plan? I think that I'll get some agencies numbers and addresses, Just in Case.
I'm planning to spend the whole time with my I., so I'm not contacting any other women there. If I. should turn out to be an horrible harpy instead of the nice lady I think I know, I may just feel too bad to start looking again immediately, so I'll probably just enjoy the rest of the trip as a regular vacation. But some numbers in my pocket won't hurt, I agree with that. Will look about this later, still 7 weeks before leaving...

[Daveman]

...still 7 weeks before leaving...

Hey again Totora.... listen man.. don't wait until the last minute for any of your travel plans... Make as many reservations as you can for Odessa in advance... I'm tellin' you.. summer is a pain in the arse for last minute travel there..  same for Crimea if you decide you wanna hit Simferopol (which is the first stop to anywhere in Crimea as I know it.. Scott could probably help you get somewhere without going through Simferopol, but that's the only way I know).. In later september (end of the season) it's 'walk in' easy to get tickets, but in July/August... it's a mad house and prices for ANYTHING available go up, and then up some more for last minute people.

Dave

[Totoro]

Yes daveman, my "still 7 weeks to go" was only about getting numbers of agencies as Plan B. I already have plane tickets, will book the apartments in a week or two, and will get the train tickets at the end of the month (I hear they aren't sold earlier than 6 weeks in advance). At this moment I'm searching the net about Kiev and Odessa, looking for interesting things to do and see. Where possible I'll confirm booking in advance...
Thank you for your advice.