Why men find scammers

[IAmZon]

The girl I have been dating have had three rather serious relationships.  Two with Romanian guys - one there - one here.  She is very successful socially!  But gets bored with men because - fortunately for some of us - after a pretty girl drives in an expensive car, and gets treated to a nice diner, or vacation -- boredom sets in.

There are a lot of good guys ... but I think there are more men that leave a woman wanting than fulfilled.

[wxman]

The girl I have been dating have had three rather serious relationships.  Two with Romanian guys - one there - one here.  She is very successful socially!  But gets bored with men because - fortunately for some of us - after a pretty girl drives in an expensive car, and gets treated to a nice diner, or vacation -- boredom sets in.

There are a lot of good guys ... but I think there are more men that leave a woman wanting than fulfilled.

I'm a bit confused by your statement. Is she bored with regular guys because she prefers the fast life and material things, or those things after awhile provide no substance to her?

[vwrw]

All of your points and observations are valid. And I agree with them.

One thing that you are now probably aware of is that as soon as a RW makes the kind of common sense and common decency observations that you are making in this thread a certain percentage of WM are going to get defensive b/c you are striking some nerves (their pride and self delusion). So instead of conceding the validity of your points, they (some) will try to attack or question you *personally* or just defend and/or rationalize away your clearly valid observations.  I note that even a certain RW who prefers 40+ year age differences has reappeared to engage in this weak and morally bankrupt tactic.  

In addition, and as some of the WM posters have noted, the whole WM pursuing FSUW culture and phenomena is rife with fraud, scams, users and misrepresentations (on both sides). And yes, the majority of WM, and certainly AM, who are involved in pursuing FSUW are the opposite of what I would call the "cream of the crop" in terms of moral integrity, intelligence, masculinity, physical shape, culture, etiquette, broad life experience, etc. and also not having been married multiple times with multiple children in tow. That is just the way it is.

It seems to me (maybe only seems) that you think the truth is a thing confirmed by few in number group of people.
I am sorry to disappoint you but the fact you are agreed with Serebro’s points and observation still does not make them to be the actual reality majority of women encounter.

There is only one way to validate your belief that the majority of WM who are involved in pursuing FSUW are the opposite of what you called the "cream of the crop". The way is to interview each of the WM involved in the pursuit. Otherwise, any statement is just a hypothesis based on personal subjective experience.
I not only concede that 90% of men contacted her were from inferior league, I believe that was so. And that is why I expressed my suggestion how she could change the state of affair she has.    

[IAmZon]

wax -
 
bored with the concentration on the superficiality - civilities without sincerity; material things; lack of depth; lack of traditional values - real conversations with family and friends.

These have been points strongly made to me from 5 - 7 FSU students in private and over a bottle of Tuscia (plum vodka .. I am sure I am spelling it wrong).  They love the American Dream, but have many criticisms with how they see most Americans living their lives.  REMEMBER: these are observations from students - 24 - 28 - who are rather new to USA, AND in New York city - not a very friendly, psychologically balanced sample of the entire USA.

[WmGO]

There is only one way to validate your belief that the majority of WM who are involved in pursuing FSUW are the opposite of what you called the "cream of the crop". The way is to interview each of the WM involved in the pursuit. Otherwise, any statement is just a hypothesis based on personal subjective experience.

Actually, this is incorrect - just study the subject of statistical analysis. I have seen with my own two eyes hundreds upon hundreds of WM over in FSULand, and seen what hundreds and hundreds of them post on FSUW discussion forums.........and *that* is how I arrive at my conclusion (shared by many) that 90% of the WM pursuing FSUW are not the best men in their countries by any stretch of the imagination. As a matter of fact, the whole "industry" (for lack of a better term) attracts some of the worst people on both sides .......just look at the high number of once, twice, thrice divorced leches involved seeking to "buy" a Russian/Ukrainain girl 25, 30, 35 and 40 years younger.........and *that* is just the tip of the iceberg.....

If Serebro's profile says "up to ten years older" (don't know what it says but this is just for example) or something to that effect and she is getting 90% responses from men above that age cutoff it just goes to prove my point.........and I am certain based on discussing issues like this with dozens of FSUW that this problem is the norm not the exception.......... just a perusal of any of the FSUW websites will reflect that FSUW as a whole are lowering on their profiles the acceptable age limits.........ten years is rapidly becomeing the norm on many FSUW profiles.............it used to be 15 but so many FSUW have been bombarded so long by WM 20-40 years older that they are trying to slow down the stampede of men who could be their grandfathers ........

[Serebro]

If Serebro's profile says "up to ten years older" (don't know what it says but this is just for example) or something to that effect and she is getting 90% responses from men above that age cutoff it just goes to prove my point.........

Serebro's profile says up to 50. I have already tried to explain that I don't mind older men, but most girls that I know DO MIND. I do not complain about 50 yo men sending romantic messages to me.I complain about 58 yo losers who have never read a book in their life not knowing anything about real Russia  writing to me.

[Daveman]

Serebro,  The point I was trying to make that was lost somewhere in the shuffle is simply this... Most of the people in the dating scene and in internet world are idiots. Plain and simple.  It's hard for us to judge the thoughts of the real wackos because the majority of the guys you will interact with on this forum are not what you describe. Maybe a few, I don't know, but not many. 

None of the guys contradicted my words about the Elenas Models ages, so ,my guess is that our experiences are quite similar.  That is because very young girls DO write to us first many times - on that site and on many sites. This fact that they DO write to older guys, for reasons only the ladies know, keeps the fantasies going for those idiots only looking for arm candy, a servant, etc.  It gives them the impression that all they need is to be Western and an FSU lady will run to be with his Western self because she wants out of her country.  This is one part of the hype we (on this board) are trying to eliminate in the process of exchanging experience and knowledge. 

As others have said, most of the men going to the FSU are not the cream of the crop, but the guys who are on this site mostly are. 

It's difficult to give you a solid answer because we are guessing at best.

The answer to your first question of "Why men find scammers" is simple - because they exist. The second question of "Why do men with several divorces, etc..." Well, I guess the answer is that there are many reasons ranging from idiocy, to wishful thinking, to wanting a slave - and believing they can actually find one.  And lastly, "what is their family model???" Only god really knows that for sure, because I sure don't.

Both genders have to walk cautiously through the mine fields of international dating and use common sense.  And, hit the delete button many, many, many times.

Dave

[wxman]

Serebro,

This question is just for my curiousity. I can understand an older man finding a younger woman attractive, but what is your feeling on the success of a long term relationship with a much older man? You are a woman in her 20s and you said you would consider a man up to the age of 50 who is well versed, etc. 20 years from now, you would still be in the prime of your life and career, possibly with children in their teens planning their futures, and your husband would be 70 and lets face it, near the end of his life, and possibly in the need of care. Every woman I know thinks about the future of any relationship, and I was wondering what your feelings were on such issues. I have met younger women who have dated men as much as 20 years older than them, and most of these guys were upstanding people, but these women dated them more out of curiousity than for a lifetime commitment or long term relationship. I personally could not handle a relationship with someone 20 years younger than me, so I applaud you for having a more open mind on the subject.

[Serebro]

I can understand an older man finding a younger woman attractive, but what is your feeling on the success of a long term relationship with a much older man? You are a woman in her 20s and you said you would consider a man up to the age of 50 who is well versed, etc. 20 years from now, you would still be in the prime of your life and career, possibly with children in their teens planning their futures, and your husband would be 70 and lets face it, near the end of his life, and possibly in the need of care. Every woman I know thinks about the future of any relationship, and I was wondering what your feelings were on such issues.

I have already lived in America(not as a fiancee) but as a student and of course I have met many young americans. And they didn't impress me in a great way.The thing I realized was that most americans are big children in comparison with most russians that I know. And the students that I knew spoke about cars, parties  and about sex all the time.So when filling in the form of the agency I remembered that and I hoped that maybe by the age of 30 or 40, or maybe 50 some of these men  grow up...And about the end of life...well maybe
I will be run over by a car tomorrow...

[Gator]

Cerebral wrote,

most americans are big children in comparison with most russians that I know

Agree.  Life is more difficult in Russia and it tends to make people more serious, even for corporate types and entrepreneurs with money who have more wolves snapping at their legs than the same in America.

[wxman]

Americans do have more free time and with it, the focus on play time. The younger generation does focus a lot more on material things than previous generations. Of course some of the older folk are no better. They have plenty of free time too, and because of it tend to think more of their mortality. Thus many of them are now acting like children, thinking that will prolong their life.

[Turkey]

There's a saying that goes something like this:  "If your less then 30 and not a liberal then you don't have a heart, if 30 or older and are liberal then you don't have a brain." 

I don't mean to turn this into a political thread, but the point is that as we age our worldviews change (some people call it 'growing up').  In America, liberals are generally thought of as well meaning, idealistic and free spiritied.  Conservatives are often thought of as tradition, rules and responsibility. 

When all you know is a protected environment where mom and dad took care of everything and school is a sanctuary, then your views are going to be different than when you make it out into the 'real world' and have to deal with work, strangers and creating your own family. 

Perhaps these decadent bourgeois tendencies foreshadow the end of pax Americana.  I don't know but there are a lot of people thinking about this; whether from the matriarchs of the feminist movement who are aghast at the 'girls gone wild' phenomena of the current female youth or the families in the Bible belt talking to their children at supper time, there are those who are interested and concerned.

ps. note 30 is the age for maturity! LOL!

[Serebro]

Boys, you MUST SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!
That was the talk from the messenger on one dating website-it took place about 5 minutes ago

David: hi
David: how r u
David: ur a very pretty lady
Olga: thanx
Olga: hi
Olga: i am fine, where from
David: u have yahoo?
David: usa
Olga: yes, I do have yahoo, but I am afriad that I have to go  in about 5 minutes'time
Olga: and where's your photo
David: u have any kids
David: i have it at yahoo
Olga: no, i wrote that in the profile:D
Olga: you hate kids?!
David: no i like
David: have u ever been pregant
Olga: are you a gynecologyst?!
David: yes
David: have u ever had an abortion
Olga: no, why
David: r u still a virgin

I like the way americans flirt!

[Daveman]

Boys, you MUST SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!
That was the talk from the messenger on one dating website-it took place about 5 minutes ago


I like the way americans flirt!

OH MY GOD! I think I know this guy!  Well, not personally, but a Russian lady friend on mine is baiting him on like we bait scammers!  The "r u still a virgin" is alllll too familiar.....  he claims he's been to Tver 7 times, because he had a g/f there, but they never had sex, and her father forbid their marriage or some crap..... He's a complete and total nutcase ..... only the "David' my friend is baiting claims to be a factory worker.  How bizarre if it's the same guy.  Demands that the lady be a virgin.

But, I must declare that he's not a real David... he's obviously a David name snatcher, or was created in a laboratory, something...

[wxman]

Oh no, It's fat Yuri's American cousin, Fat John!    Run Olga, Run!

[Turkey]

Doh!  Sounds like you got a real winner there   Ha! 

On a serious note, do these agencies ever ban the guy?  Doesn't seem very safe...I know you RW are tough but...

[macman]

YES, I'M A VIRGIN!


Just ask my daughter, she never lies. . .

[IAmZon]

That is not flirting! 

How do you say "pig" in Russian:)

[Gator]

свинья (swin-yah)

[Daveman]

Unless she likes him, then porosenok works pretty good. 

[macman]

Bro,

I didn't use the translator for

porosenok

; is that BBQ ribs?  We got 'em good down here.  OR, east of there. . . depends on the city. . .

[srsol]

Nice to hear this, especially if this echelon seems to have their own photos as avatar 

Now I have something to brag about - I am in the "echelon" (a highly secretive world-wide signals intelligence and analysis network) - well, that's the Wikipedia definition. 

[srsol]

OOpppsss . . . sorry, I quoted the whole block -

[Daveman]

Bro,

I didn't use the translator for ; is that BBQ ribs?  We got 'em good down here.  OR, east of there. . . depends on the city. . .

BBQ sounds about right.. Baby back ribs maybe

Actually I'm not really sure it's even a real word.  Her definition through hysterical laughter to me after she called ME that was "Eet ees peeg... leetool" followed by more hysterical laughter at the "what the hell was that" expression on my face.

2nd Echelonians 2:43 - "Thou shalt not concerneth thyself with the strange words from the mouths of Russian Babes whither soever she uttereth"

[Kuna]

There's an important message in this thread about the low quality of men pursuing a FSUW via the Internet...  It was the greatest turnoff about this whole pursuit for me.  Even before I went to Ukraine I KNEW many of those on this journey were losers and I didn't like the thought of being associated with them in anyway.

My Girl met one man before we met.  She said he'd written to her and he was the only person that wrote that was actually visiting.  She felt he "might" be too old but when he suggested meeting for coffee she thought "why not".

She said when she arrived she was shocked he was so old (one might assume he used an old photo) and she said there was absolutely nothing to talk about over coffee.  She finished her drink, thanked him and excused herself before leaving (feeling relieved to out of there).

get this.. the next day he called her and asked if she would marry him!   

When it comes to age there's a simple fact.  Some men can comfortably maintain a relationship with a woman much younger... We all know that but some men will struggle. We know who they are... a man worthy of a much younger wife stands out just as much as an incredible woman stands out from a crowd of scammers.

When it comes to women choosing a much older partner it's still quite simple.  Some might be attracted to the man because he's obviously more worldly or sophisticated than other men of any age...  Some women though are obviously just seeking the first boat out of their personal hell and they'll do anything to buy the ticket.

What concerns me most of all is the freaks and weirdo's because it tarnishes all men on this journey AND it could place a girl at risk if he suppresses his weirdness enough OR if the girl is too desperate to see the danger.

I know many men here disagree with the US legislation to manage International marriages but it is a fact that it is needed at times.  When's it needed??? That's the hard thing to judge!

Kuna