Odessa Girls: Legalized Pimping or True Love?

[ulughbek]

The first two parts of this documentary about a social tour are on Youtube at


[youtube=425,350]bbZqdvg5u4Y[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]WpfjyI15RdQ[/youtube]

[macman]

YO Turk. . .

keep on Turin'. . .

 

[Admin]

What do YOU think ulughbek?

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

I saw a couple of what seemed to be decent guys and one guy (the old guy talking about the women like used cars that he had to test drive) as a perfect example of the guys who give men looking overseas for a partner a bad name.

FWIW and only my impressions of the piece.

Ken

[KenC]

I saw a couple of what seemed to be decent guys and one guy (the old guy talking about the women like used cars that he had to test drive) as a perfect example of the guys who give men looking overseas for a partner a bad name.

FWIW and only my impressions of the piece.

Ken

Ken,
The guy you were talking about was 65 and disappointed that he couldn't find any virgins!  Maybe Turbo knows him?
KenC

[Admin]

Ken,
The guy you were talking about was 65 and disappointed that he couldn't find any virgins!  Maybe Turbo knows him?
KenC

Ken,

That was a low blow.

- Dan

[KenC]

Ken,

That was a low blow.

- Dan

Why is that?  He is the same age as Turbo, Turbo has gone on a number of tours and they both like younger women.  There are only so many tours.......and they have a lot in common.
KenC

[Admin]

Why is that?  He is the same age as Turbo, Turbo has gone on a number of tours and they both like younger women.  There are only so many tours.......and they have a lot in common.
KenC

Ken,

Come on.

This topic had NOTHING to do with TG - yet you drug his name into it with an unkind reference.

Fess up.

- Dan

[KenC]

Dan,
Your problem is that you view the old guy in the video as unsavory and you think of Turbo in a different light.  But really they are no different.  Same age.  Same methods of finding a woman in the fsu (tours).  And the same target age group.  The fact that Turbo has been stomping in the fsu for over TEN YEARS has allowed him to meet many different people.  Why is wondering if Turbo might know this guy be unkind?  Don't shy away from the facts just because it might show Turbo in an unfavorable way.  He is what he is.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Ken, just for the record I never met Art. 

[Admin]

Dan,
Your problem is that you view the old guy in the video as unsavory and you think of Turbo in a different light.  But really they are no different.  Same age.  Same methods of finding a woman in the fsu (tours).  And the same target age group.  The fact that Turbo has been stomping in the fsu for over TEN YEARS has allowed him to meet many different people.  Why is wondering if Turbo might know this guy be unkind?  Don't shy away from the facts just because it might show Turbo in an unfavorable way.  He is what he is.
KenC

Ken,

I think my "problem" is that I find it difficult to stand in judgment of people. I do not connect TG with anyone. As far as I am concerned, TG stands on his own merits (or demerits) based on what I have read here.

The fact that this thread was started and had nothing to do with TG and you dragged him into it was, IMO, an intentional attempt to denigrate TG by associating him with someone who most would find objectionable.

Ken, that just is NOT the 'stand-up' behavior I have grown to expect from you. It is not like you.

- Dan

[KenC]

Ken,

I think my "problem" is that I find it difficult to stand in judgment of people. I do not connect TG with anyone. As far as I am concerned, TG stands on his own merits (or demerits) based on what I have read here.

The fact that this thread was started and had nothing to do with TG and you dragged him into it was, IMO, an intentional attempt to denigrate TG by associating him with someone who most would find objectionable.
Ken, that just is NOT the 'stand-up' behavior I have grown to expect from you. It is not like you.

- Dan

Dan,
No matter how much you may want to stick your head in the sand, we are all associated with the guys in these videos by the shear fact that we are married to or engaged to fsu women.  Do you think I like being associated with the "typical" guy that hooks up with a hot RW 25 years younger than himself?  Do you think I am proud of every guy that has been associated with a marriage agency in the fsu?  In my own mind my story of meeting and falling in love with Lena is a pure and beautiful love story.  But the facts surrounding us are very similar to many a loser that goes to Russia to find a young piece of azz.  I have to live with that no matter how many "buts" I have to separate myself from them.

The jerk in the video had many similarities to Turbo: same age, a veteran of many unsuccessful trips to fsu, a tour veteran and a desire to find a young (virginal) woman.  The fact that the video guy is objectionable to you does not erase his similarities to Turbo.  I was struck by the similarities, that's all.  We all have to "stand up" to our association with others that walked a similar path as we did no matter how desperately we want to disassociate ourselves with them.  Sorry if I pulled back the curtain to expose the wizard a bit.
KenC

[Admin]

Dan,
No matter how much you may want to stick your head in the sand, we are all associated with the guys in these videos by the shear fact that we are married to or engaged to fsu women.  Do you think I like being associated with the "typical" guy that hooks up with a hot RW 25 years younger than himself?  Do you think I am proud of every guy that has been associated with a marriage agency in the fsu?  In my own mind my story of meeting and falling in love with Lena is a pure and beautiful love story.  But the facts surrounding us are very similar to many a loser that goes to Russia to find a young piece of azz.  I have to live with that no matter how many "buts" I have to separate myself from them.

The jerk in the video had many similarities to Turbo: same age, a veteran of many unsuccessful trips to fsu, a tour veteran and a desire to find a young (virginal) woman.  The fact that the video guy is objectionable to you does not erase his similarities to Turbo.  I was struck by the similarities, that's all.  We all have to "stand up" to our association with others that walked a similar path as we did no matter how desperately we want to disassociate ourselves with them.  Sorry if I pulled back the curtain to expose the wizard a bit.
KenC

Ken,

You didn't pull the curtain to expose the wizard. Rather, you took a cheap shot to associate a member here with behaviors that most would consider at least somewhat objectionable.

Any thinking person recognizes that - just as in 'normal' life and domestic dating - there are cretins involved in seeking international relationships with foreign women. There is no revelation in that. There are cretin females involved in this process as well. Are there a higher proportion of cretins involved in international dating vice domestic dating? I don't know - but I doubt it. I've met quite a number of people - both in Ukraine and here in the US and elsewhere - who are part of an inter-cultural union. There are some whom I do not care to associate with, but they are in the minority. The majority are relatively normal folk who, for a variety of reasons, sought their life-partner from a more distant geography than most.

I guess I don't agree that I need to acknowledge an "association with others who walked a similar path." The desire to seek a love relationship with someone from across the street or across the globe is, IMO, a very individual choice and path to be taken. No two are identical, and I do not believe you can reasonably extrapolate from the data points laid out in that video to any individual member here at RWD - particularly one who has offered sufficient insight to see there are DISsimilarities as well. I don't consider this sticking my head in the sand - so much as recognizing the individuality of each member here and the choices made in this unique process.

Finally, the part which I find (and found) to be a low blow, was the part in which you chose to taint TG by mentioning him in a thread which had nothing to do with him. It was off-topic. It was denigrating, and it was, IMO, a cheap shot. As I said earlier, it seems out of character for you to do such - and I wanted to bring your attention to it.

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

Like it or not, all of those who have or are seeking an FSU wife are lumped together by the vast majority of people who have no clue as to what it's all about.  Sure we here understand the differences, but most don't.  I understand KenC's frustration with this thinking and having to educate people both in defense of himself as well as his wife.  I think KenC has to deal with even more assumptions than most of us here because of his age and the age difference.  When he sees yet another video of some old fart chasing 20 year old virgins, it has to irk him.

It's also worse for the guys with wives from Odessa because they get painted with this same brush.  I hope they never do a similar video about Simferopol.  I certainly don't want to have to sit and explain that this was not how I met my wife to those who might see it.

[WmGO]

Most of those guys make WM look bad. And none of them
know how to dress or groom properly - all too common of
WM in FSU.

One thing though, I think the 27 y.o. lady with the little
girl was a very nice woman. Wouldn't mind meeting her myself.

[acrzybear]

It never amazes me how small minded and ignorant your average American can be.  When I mentioned that I am going to Russia or a FSU the first thing people say is "so you're going to get a mail order bride"  To which my standard reply is no and they still don't believe me.

  If I find a partner then great, if not I am still on vacation and experiencing a beautiful country and seeing the sights I had heard about growing up.  I still remember as a child/teenager hearing about how evil Russia is and that they were our enemies and wanted to destroy us, even then I wanted to visit the places I heard so much about (Red Square, Gorky Park etc..).

  So if people want to have small minds and make judgements about me, that's fine since I'm not living my life for them.  As far as the age thing goes I wouldn't be comfortable with anything larger then a 10 -12 year gap, buy that's just me.

 And that Art charactor in the videos is pretty much a borderline pedophile and he is pretty much looking for another piece of property to own.  He would give any country a bad name, too bad he's from the United States.  



 I know I'll probably tick some people off here, but I wonder about someone that has to use an agency to do everything for them.  How are you supposed to be strong and survive if you have another person doing all of the work for you?  It appears as if the guys are weak or perhaps it's just laziness?  The only things I can see using an agency for is to secure a place to stay and pick me up and drop me off at the airport, other then that leave me to my own devices.  I relish the sense of adventure and exploring the unknown (unknown to me at least).

Just the views/opinions of a lowly hard headed civil servant

[groovlstk]

It never amazes me how small minded and ignorant your average American can be.  When I mentioned that I am going to Russia or a FSU the first thing people say is "so you're going to get a mail order bride"  To which my standard reply is no and they still don't believe me.

If you think it's bad now, wait until you find a girl and bring her here 

My wife and I have been dealing with this for the last few months and it's amazing the depths of depravity that some people will sink to - i.e., your ex-girlfriends, your male friends' wives, co-workers, gossipy neighbors, etc. Thankfully, in our case the net effect is that it's made us even closer but I can see if a guy's used to having a beer with his pals a few nights each week, this can be a big splinter in his relationship.

[acrzybear]

If you think it's bad now, wait until you find a girl and bring her here

My wife and I have been dealing with this for the last few months and it's amazing the depths of depravity that some people will sink to - i.e., your ex-girlfriends, your male friends' wives, co-workers, gossipy neighbors, etc. Thankfully, in our case the net effect is that it's made us even closer but I can see if a guy's used to having a beer with his pals a few nights each week, this can be a big splinter in his relationship.

  Glad to hear things are working out for you Groov, that's how it should be.  I don't know if it's because I was an only independent child (drove my mom nuts since I was always wandering off somewhere), but I've never really cared what people think of me.  The few people I call friends (about 3 people) accept me for who I am and have been there for me as I have for them.  Now the rest are just acquaintances and I only see them at work or the occasional social function I have to go to. So if they have something to say then go ahead, I guess I that just means I have something worth talking about    If it's one of my Officers, well I do write their evaluations

   As long as you're with the one you love, everyone else is secondary (Yeah I'm still a closet romantic).

[catzenmouse]

When I mentioned that I am going to Russia or a FSU the first thing people say is "so you're going to get a mail order bride"  To which my standard reply is no and they still don't believe me.

I always replied that the shipping charges were prohibitive and that the return policy was much too complicated. Usually shut them up or at least made them wonder if I was serious or not.

Ken

P. S. Belated Happy Birthday!

[KenC]

groovlstk,
My point was that we are all a bit tainted by guys like this Art fellow.  Some more than others.  If the parallels are plentiful but unpleasant, so be it.  We all have to deal with it to some degree or another.  Again, some more than others.
KenC

[groovlstk]

   As long as you're with the one you love, everyone else is secondary (Yeah I'm still a closet romantic).

Thanks, acrzybear.

I think your attitude is necessary to succeed. My wife says it often: there's "us" and then there's "everyone else." I think to have a chance at success in all this you have to be willing to abandon pretty much everything that you held dear before your wife arrived. The things you can keep are gravy - and I don't mean material things - but you have to be ready to let everything go, potentially, if need be.

Losing some of my friends was a minor disappointment to me because I knew there was a strong potential for it from reading posts by the veterans here. I didn't lose any sleep over it, in fact my main concern was making sure that my wife didn't feel "responsible" for it.

Hey, I've only got 7 months under my belt with my wife so far so don't take what I say too seriously, but it's gotten me this far 

[catzenmouse]

groov,

 You may only have 7 months under your belt here but right from the start you went about this with the proper mindset and good instincts. I had no doubts that in the end you would be successful.

Ken

[groovlstk]

groovlstk,
My point was that we are all a bit tainted by guys like this Art fellow.  Some more than others.  If the parallels are plentiful but unpleasant, so be it.  We all have to deal with it to some degree or another.  Again, some more than others.
KenC

Ken, I agree with you 100%. As much as I can accuse people of being close-minded, etc., about my relationship, it's people like Art whom they can point to as "evidence" that we're  birds of a feather.

Like you, I do my best to distance myself from guys like Art and Winston Wu and 99% of guys who go on social tours, yet it's like fighting the proverbial Tar Baby.

[philb]

I know I'll probably tick some people off here, but I wonder about someone that has to use an agency to do everything for them.  How are you supposed to be strong and survive if you have another person doing all of the work for you?  It appears as if the guys are weak or perhaps it's just laziness?  The only things I can see using an agency for is to secure a place to stay and pick me up and drop me off at the airport, other then that leave me to my own devices.  I relish the sense of adventure and exploring the unknown (unknown to me at least).

Just the views/opinions of a lowly hard headed civil servant

I have always wondered the same thing too.  I always tried to stay as far away as possible from agencies.  I understand that the above video is not indicative all agencies and guys who use them, but when I see something like this well.....

[acrzybear]

Thanks Ken

Another year older, but not necessarily wiser  

 I usually reply (with a straight face): "I tried it once, but she was shipped C.O.D and I didn't have the cash on hand so I had to return to sender"-I know I have a warped sense of humor-but it usually shuts the person up.

Groov

 Well You've got 7+ months on me, I'm still in the semi-search phase, One disadvantage to you getting married is that I don't get to read your well written trip reports   Oh well I'll just have to wait until you go back and visit the new family