Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[Kuna]

A second thought for the gents that appreciate posts (and trips) like Pikes...


How's your Mail Order Brides going and what do they think of his trip report?

How about your 16 year old daughters???  Do they often rub their breasts on men over the age of 50?

[Vaughn]

  I just don't like men that support the exploitation of women.

Leave it to Kuna to nail down a summary in one thrifty word: exploitation.
Not only did he exploit the ladies, he used this board to more or less brag
of the exploits. A perfect ending to his saga: he locates a woman who
will nod in agreement - the ultimate "yes" girl, marries her, then finds she's
quickly fled for a fellow with character, not to mention discretion.

The arrogance shown by some of these TR's slays me. Hilarious. Small
wonder there's the stigma.  

[Kuna]

A perfect ending to his saga: he locates a woman who
will nod in agreement - the ultimate "yes" girl, marries her, then finds she's
quickly fled for a fellow with character, not to mention discretion.

Vaughn,

You know what'll happen if Pike ever had a FSUW run off on him...  He and his supporters will be screaming blue murder over yet another Green Card Girl and/or scammer!

Incredible!   

Kuna

[Admin]

Let's be honest... there's a stigma associated with men who go to Russia to seek marriage and a healthy family BECAUSE of people like Pike.

What I'm more surprised at is the feable excuses and defenses offered by 30% of the men (so far) that have responded to the poll.

If those sort of proportions translate to real life I'm certain that My Girl and I won't be associated with other International couples.  I just don't like men that support the exploitation of women.

Kuna,

I think you are seeing a huge turnout of guys who agree with you - at least, in general terms. Most guys at RWD would not, and should not, support the exploitation of women. Likewise, we should band together and make our collective feelings known. And we are.

Part of the conundrum is that RWD is founded on principles which include the desire to allow as many as possible, the opportunity to be heard. In the past, we suffered some problems and failed to achieve that objective because some people felt fearful of the responses they would receive, hence, we made 'room' for the new forum which allows people to have their 'say' without anxiety. In general, I believe this is a good thing - although, as mentioned earlier, there is opportunity for abuse. To some extent, the disparate types of TR's help us to develop context. We are able to see behaviors in in a clearer light because we can see behaviors along a continuum and some will find them acceptable - others will not. That too, is a good thing.

Also, as you know, we are working on initiatives that deal VERY directly with the issues you raise - and through that venue RWD and the principal contributors, of which you are an integral part, *will* have an impact - positively - on establishing and promoting a clear set of guides for men's behaviors.

Kuna, we *are* working towards the goal you promote. Admittedly, it may not take the form of direct intervention on the open forum - but we are, nevertheless, demonstrably interested in this issue - and we are addressing it aggressively.

Just another POV.

- Dan

[ScottinCrimea]

While what should have been said is, "Pike, if you want to write about such things, take it somewnere else."  Instead, the members were told, "If you want to comment wbout what he writes, take it somewhere else (to a different thread)".

I would suggest that there be a link connecting this thread and and his report so that anyone can note the connection.  That way he can write as he pleases without interruption if that is the consensus here, but but it won't be seen by anyone visiting as isolated and unresponded to.

[Admin]

While what should have been said is, "Pike, if you want to write about such things, take it somewnere else."  Instead, the members were told, "If you want to comment wbout what he writes, take it somewhere else (to a different thread)".

I would suggest that there be a link connecting this thread and and his report so that anyone can note the connection.  That way he can write as he pleases without interruption if that is the consensus here, but but it won't be seen by anyone visiting as isolated and unresponded to.

Gator made a similar suggestion - and I think it has merit.

I need to give it some more thought as to HOW to implement. Give me a little time.

- Dan

[BillyB]

Guys, Pike was exploited himself. Some girls didn't seem interested in him, didn't put out but probably just wanted to go on a date payed by him. A married woman got some action from him and then dumped him. Maybe Pike picked up a disease and payed a heavy price for his behavior.

Kuna, guys like Pike don't give men in this endeavor a stigma, the media does. No matter how good we portray ourselves and even if we outnumber losers 100-1, the media will find the loser and make him a Representative of all of us. Good news don't sell newspapers. I quit worrying about what people think of me pertaining to searching overseas for a lady. If they aren't smart enough to judge a person as an individual, then I don't need to waste time on them.

The poll does not reflect accurately in how people feel about Pike and if his trip report is acceptable. I will never be like Pike and do not think his trip report is acceptable but I'm fine that it stays. If I had a daughter, at an appropriate age, I would let her read Pike's trip report to let her understand what type of men are out there. To shelter her from seeing all the wrong in the world may do her more damage as she will have to learn lessons the hard way since she would be more naive.

If we take away the part about how we feel whether the trip report was appropriate or not and left the poll to simply say if it should stay or go, there would be more people saying it should stay. By saying it should stay does not mean voters approve of Pike's behavior.

Scott, Dan has been fair across the board with disruptive posts even if the disruption is coming from members in good standing. Remember in Wiz's and 2tallBill's threads how certain people caused disruptions? They were told to take it somewhere else. If those ladies simply gave their two cents about how they felt instead of calling these guys sex tourists along with other constant attacks repeatedly, they would not be told to take it somewhere else or have their posts erased. Now some of you guys are wondering why your posts aren't allowed to be attached with Pike's trip report? Now you know how the ladies of AD feel. The funny thing is that us men didn't think 2tall and Wiz were sex tourist that belong on a men's blacklist as did the ladies of AD. Most men will not agree that AD's stricter standards for men's conduct make them better people than the people they criticize.

[CaptB]

I had made an extensive post to the issues being discussed here......but my computer acted-up.......making the content of my post disappear. I am too tired to rewrite it. Being an American I will always fight against censorship. I do not care for the individual-in-question's exploits....I don't believe this is what the board is about (finding a partner in the FSU). Spencer...on the RWG.....never did answer the question definitively .................."Is the RWG for people looking for a life partner in the FSU?". Because of no definitive answer....it opened the door for "pro-daters"...."sex tourists".........etc. I would tell the individual in question that maybe this is'nt the right forum for such a "trip report".......and leave it at that. There is even a better solution that is very effective......you can hit the "ignore button".......or just choose not to respond. This woeked very well for a troll named "strob" on the RWG......but not until lots of rants by many members (giving him what he wanted.....attention). Lots of responses will equate to......lots of interest. If the content of this post is really distasteful......put your money where your mouth is..............ignore the poster.......and posts with similar content. With no audience......they WILL fade away........if you have the guts........to ignore.

I don't like censorship................and folks to speak for "ME"......I can do a competant job without such help. I become leary when someone says......"the answer is OBVIOUS". My line may be very close indeed....to the line YOU draw.......but not EXACTLY. To protect "MY LINE".....I will do it myself.....thank you. Thankfully......our (US) constitution agrees with me.

To ignore is a powerful tool......and it works. But it seems to be a most difficult thing to do for most folks.......in reality. But then.....sometimes the thing to do......is not the easiest.


Capt B

[CaptB]

Kuna,

No flames here. I did not vote because the items to be voted on were made by one individual.....as opposed to at least a group. Not responding to polls is also a "choice".......and is its own response. You could take 100 members here.....and ask them to "draw a line (limit) of their choosing. Many lines may be close....relating a trend.....but still not and exact fit......to the lines of others. I like that.....having my own line......and I will always fight to protect "my line". Ignoring such threads does work. If there are truly many members here who think such a topic is inappropriate.....their "vote" to ingnore will effectively send the poster elswhere......to find an audience. If "likethinkers" who support this thread want to congregate here......it means other....more relevant threads will be less cluttered with their post.

Our folks always said......"Just ignore him".......because they are seeking attention. It was good advice...........but the "child" in us.......still prevents us........from following such advice.
Now I will look for a thread that merrits..........my attention.


Capt B

[Kuna]

CaptB,

I've come to respect your opinions in here and I genuinely believe you're one of the good guys... but the poll isn't about censorship... it's about community standards.

I've noticed some of the respondants have hinged much on the question of censorship and maybe that's because of social and political legacies in the USA.

I just don't think it's about censorship.

Let me put it this way... If we were all gathered in a social environment (with our wives, brothers and sisters and mature age children) would we find it acceptable for a person to speak openly about events described in Pike's TR.  Even more to the point... if someone was talking in such a way would we be forced to listen without comment?

What makes it different because it's on the Internet and what would our wives feel like in that social setting if we weren't real men and stood up to say something?

Some men might like to hear about the 16yr old school kids and Pike's mildly sexual experience with them but is it an event that is acceptable in our community?

Someone (maybe more than one person) in this thread insinuated that it was these women that were at fault somehow but let's be honest.  A sex tourist like Pike uses the marriage sites to contact the victims.  He would be painting the picture the women are looking for and he would be planning exactly how he can get his jollies.  Sure,  some of the women haven't displayed the good judgement we'd hope for but how many men actually visit and what has he said to them? 

I'm not in favour of censorship either but allowing such posts without comment is in part endorsing this behaviour.  Now that it's started how does RWD moderate future posts by other sex tourists?

I think leaving the thread is a good warning for the women who will be exploited by sex tourists like Pike BUT RWD carrying the thread without comment is tantamount to supporting his methods and motives.

BillyB,

Suggesting the media is responsible for the stigma and not the men that perpetrate these acts is like blaming women for getting raped because they wear short skirts.  Give "yerself" a slap my friend.

Kuna

[Mir]

The only reason I haven't criticised Pike as much as the others is because I believe he is targeting women that are just like him and not hurting sincere women. You're not going to convince me women that open their legs for strangers within hours are sincere women.

What do other members think about such women?

[Mir]

Dan

Perhaps you can put such threads under active moderation.
So people can comment on them but you can decide when the comments/posts are disrupting the TR and at that time you can step-in and stop that.

[Kuna]

Quote
The only reason I haven't criticised Pike as much as the others is because I believe he is targeting women that are just like him and not hurting sincere women. You're not going to convince me women that open their legs for strangers within hours are sincere women.

What do other members think about such women?

mir,

I think the quote you ask about is preposterouos!

How anyone would presume he is "targetting women just like him" is beyond me.  How do we know what he wrote to them before travelling. Based on his gloating I bet I can guess what he was telling these women.

What we do know is that he deceived the women because he talked about how he would turn his phone off when with one woman incase another called or messaged him. If they were common "sluts" who couldn't resist him where his threesomes and group sex stories?

Through some of the posts in this thread I think we're seeing that our community is no better than the local dating community at home.  There are men everywhere that don't respect women and will try to defend the dreadful behaviour of a small minority.

When I've been to Ukraine I've seen Americans and Brits that made me feel ashamed to be amongst their number (looking for a FSUW for marriage, etc). Now I feel a little ashamed to be a member of RWD too.

Kuna

[batman]

CaptB,

I've come to respect your opinions in here and I genuinely believe you're one of the good guys... but the poll isn't about censorship... it's about community standards.

I've noticed some of the respondants have hinged much on the question of censorship and maybe that's because of social and political legacies in the USA.

I just don't think it's about censorship.

Let me put it this way... If we were all gathered in a social environment (with our wives, brothers and sisters and mature age children) would we find it acceptable for a person to speak openly about events described in Pike's TR.  Even more to the point... if someone was talking in such a way would we be forced to listen without comment?

What makes it different because it's on the Internet and what would I wives feel like in that social setting if we weren't real men and stood up to say something?

Some men might like to hear about the 16rd old school kids and Pike's mildly sexual experience with them but is it an event that is acceptable in our community?

Someone (maybe more than one person) in this thread insinuated that it was these women that were at fault somehow but let's be honest.  A sex tourist like Pike uses the marriage sites to contact the victims.  He would be painting the picture the women are looking for and he would be planning exactly how he can get his jollies.  Sure,  some of the women haven't displayed the good judgement we'd hope for but how many men actually visit and what has he said to them? 

I'm not in favour of censorship either but allowing such posts without comment is in part endorsing this behaviour.  Now that it's started how does RWD moderate future posts by other sex tourists?

I think leaving the thread is a good warning for the women who will be exploited by sex tourists like Pike BUT RWD carrying the thread without comment is tantamount to supporting his methods and motives.

BillyB,

Suggesting the media is responsible for the stigma and not the men that perpetrate these acts is like blaming women for getting raped because they wear short skirts.  Give "yerself" a slap my friend.

Kuna

I couldn't have put it better myself. Right on dude

[BillyB]

How anyone would presume he is "targetting women just like him" is beyond me. 

Certainly the evidence is that one can't presume he is targeting women that's hard to get. If Pike is lying and did not get sex, then there was not harm done to the innocent. But assuming Pike was telling the truth, these women weren't hard to get. Pike clearly wants women less challenging that's willing to sleep in his apartment first night. That fact was established during correspondence. No deception there and the women agreed to it. He also shows off his home and other material possessions. He is luring women who are interested in material wealth, not his character. Many a good woman would be turned off by a man who shows pics like that on the first day and certainly wouldn't sleep with him over a pic of his big house. Many of the women he dated was not classy. A lot of women said he was stupid for buying a large house for himself. These women are clearly different than the woman you or many of us have visited. How many of you guys had more than one woman jump in bed with you within hours or said you are stupid for doing something? The simple fact is that any decent women that did not have sex with him in the few days he alloted her and did not go back for a second date because she was turned off or Pike did not ask, maybe because she was not easy enough, was not used and had little harm done to her which was to be a waste of her time. She could easily get this treatment from Russian men. I doubt any of these women's dreams were shattered by Pike and they could be in bed with another man by now as fast as some of them drop their panties. How could anyone think serious relations will emerge after one or two days and feelings will be hurt after serious relations are established? I personally believe the average RW are wiser against getting used in their society than the average AW.

Also, the media is responsible for the stigma to a large degree and it's not like blaming women for getting raped because they wear short skirts as you say. We have much more men in America that play games with women right here at home but it's not wise for the media to beat up on such a large group of men because of loss of business. If we are to place a stigma to one group of men, then we need to place it on all groups because there are men in each group below the standards of others.

Unfortunately, the media also places an unfair stigma on foreign women too. I know for a fact most people may not say it out loud but they will automatically assume my fiancee is the same type of woman Pike sleeps with. I'm not worried about it.

[jb]

Unfortunately, the media also places an unfair stigma on foreign women too. I know for a fact most people may not say it out loud but they will automatically assume my fiancee is the same type of woman Pike sleeps with. I'm not worried about it.

I disagree with the above statement.  People are so accustomed to hearing a foreign accent in our town that it no longer raises an eyebrow.  Mostly what they hear is a Mexican or a middle eastern accent, so people will sometimes ask my wife where she is from out of curiosity.   I do not detect any malice in that.  However, I suspect if we traveled in a different class there might be some jealousy, but most college level teachers are fairly sophisticated and professional enough that a foreign accent presents no stigma.

[Mir]

I was told by some members here that the speed with which two people end in bed is not a basis for any judgment.

Pike was in email correspondence with all the women he met, so they were not total strangers.

My question is meeting a women first time in a nightclub and ending in bed a few hours later.
Should we label such women as insincere or worse?
I am not passing judgment, just asking for a frank openion.

[batman]

I was told by some members here that the speed with which two people end in bed is not a basis for any judgment.

Pike was in email correspondence with all the women he met, so they were not total strangers.

My question is meeting a women first time in a nightclub and ending in bed a few hours later.
Should we label such women as insincere or worse?
I am not passing judgment, just asking for a frank openion.

That would depend on many things, wouldn't it?
-Is she there to just "pick up"? Are you there just to "pick up"
-Is she a nice girl hanging out with friends and you just knew right there and then you were meant for each other (0.5% chance?)
-Have you known her for months by e-mail or personal contact?
-Is drunkeness clouding your judgement at the time?
-Do you even remember the night? Oooops... is she pregnant? etc.

If think it's pretty rare someone started a long term relationship from a first meeting at a night club and sleep together on the first night. But I'm sure it's happened. I don't think its a high percentage choice though.

Personally I wouldn't look for a wife there and would never go there to "pick up"

I think in Australia/USA/UK clubs are largely for going out to being stupid and picking up. In FSU I hear it's a bit different.

[jb]

In FSU I hear it's a bit different.

Yes, Batman, it is very different.

In the FSU nightclubs/disco's are little more than a cathouse with a jukebox or a DJ.  After the usual hour when decent folks are in bed resting up for work the next day, you can stumble into a disco and find many lovely ladies dancing together as they display their wares to the prospective clients for the night.

Some of the most beautiful hookers I've ever seen work in Moscow.  Vertually every hotel has a stable of these lovely ladies, spend a night in a mid-priced hotel and you are sure to have a knock on your door about bedtime.  That's life in the FSU.

But I wouldn't marry one.

[Gator]

I will beat this dead horse one more time.

Regardless of the words that Pike may have stated, there were plenty of clues for women to detect his motivation, especially considering that RW/UW are skeptics – it is in their DNA.  

So what made them crawl into his bed?  Two cases.

Case No. 1.  Sex is sex, and many women enjoy sex, and maybe all they wanted was some attention, a fine dinner, some physical pleasure, and the challenge of trying to net this man.  Does sleeping with Pike make them slutty?  I do not know all the details, and in some cases the answer is most likely “yes”.   And in other cases, if he was a gentleman and charming, what is the problem as long as safe sex is practiced.

Case No. 2.   Some women may have slept with him out of desperation, encouraged by his false words.  If so, that is sad.  It happens in the FSU, and I must assume that such happened with one or more women if Pike does not protest such a charge.  That would make Pike a low-life (well, I guess the teenager episode already had him living among those little crawly critters we see when we pick up a large rock).

Who knows the split between the two?  Only Pike.  In “sans report” mode, questions go unanswered.  Without answers and without elaboration, one can assume "grey" is "black".  And a person who would post such a story, knowing that a majority would disapprove it, and then not having the courage to explain much less defend his actions…..well, it says it all.
 
And if such reports stand isolated from responses….it encourages those with Pike’s motivations and it supports another stigma about dating and marrying FSUW.

Maybe elaboration is not needed.  Pike may give more information to men on how to do such a trip.  They would learn to use linear programming, set the “three date guideline” as the objective function, and schedule meetings such that every day or two there is a different woman having her third date.  And what is his secret for the logistical issue of washing the sheets?

[Gator]

I was told by some members here that the speed with which two people end in bed is not a basis for any judgment.

Mir, do you always question the obvious?  And then confirm the obvious answer by asking again?

[William3rd]

I have him on ignore. If I want something recycled, I take my cans to the collection station.

[batman]

I have him on ignore. If I want something recycled, I take my cans to the collection station.

Good idea

[Mir]

I have him on ignore. If I want something recycled, I take my cans to the collection station

Well then everyone should have you on ignore unless they need advice on US visas

[Muj]

I see Dan's point, we may better view the subject, Pike, undisturbed in his natural habitat.  Thereby the newbies et al may glean more factual and useful info from an otherwise shy but proud opportunist.  This is a discussion board not a report board.  Pike publishes his opinions without any input by others. So some improvement is needed.