Acceptable Behaviour and Trip Reports

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC, I was quite disappointed in your response to Kuna.  Being a successful businessman, I am sure that on a regular basis you have to make decisions about people based, not entirely on the facts in fromt of you, but on gut feelings, reading between the lines and general impressions of the person.  Why are you so reluctant to do that with Pike?  To defend his actions because others see through the BS while you see only assumptions doesn't fit.

[Jack]

Scott, how, why, would you be disappointed in Ken's response?  As I read it, and I went back and re-read, KenC made sense!  KenC pointed out facts to back-up his claims (views). 

What is wrong Scott with making decisions about people based not only on fact but fact after fact after fact?

[ScottinCrimea]

KenC didn't point out facts, he just pointed out others' lack of facts.  There's a difference.

[Jack]

Scott, your first sentence in reply #250 was directed at KenC with regards to Kuna.  My reply was in response to this sentence.

In sentence three you refer to Pike.   I would be in agreement with you that little if any facts had been pointed out or presented in the case of Pike because we really do not know everything (or anything) but are essentially told of a trip by one individual.

In the case with Kuna, and your first sentence to KenC in that you were disappointed with his response to Kuna, to me KenC was able to provide a very strong case this this one person's opinions were just that, only opinions with NO facts to back any of his claims.  KenC pointed out time after time after time, no facts, no proof, only assumptions and innuendoes.

And I think anyone who is going to read these statements with an open mind is going to see exactly what KenC presented, thus my surprise in your comments of you being disappointed in the way and manner in which KenC expressed himself.

[catzenmouse]

Read Lily's post in the other poll thread. This got me thinking that perhaps I have been too focused on my initial perceptions. I did go back and read a bit more of the TR.

I stick with my vote for the TR to stay.

I cannot say for certain that Pike is a sex tourist nor can I say he is not.

I still believe that his response to this thread being in the sans report section is at best a namby pamby wussy way to respond.

I do not feel that he is now and never will be a valuable member, there is too much hidden and to refuse to answer posts on the open board smells of a darker agenda that would most likely putrefy upon coming out into the light.

Finally, I do not think that he or his TR was worth 15 pages of cyber-paper.

FWIW,
 Ken

[ScottinCrimea]

Jack, the only thing KenC did was use examples to show that Kuna didn't use facts.  He didn't present any facts to support his own position either, only said, "You can't prove it so I'm not going to believe it".

[Kuna]

Idiots!

Simple... moronic idiots.

[Kuna]

Bruno...

I didn't read most of your threads because I decided a long time ago that you don't have anything of value to add. As I scanned through it though I was reminded why you have nothing of value to add.

I'm curious though... how does your gf and her Antidate friends view Pikes trip?

[catzenmouse]

Idiots!

Simple... moronic idiots.

.... um .... Thank you?

[Kuna]

Not because I have not been able to work it out, but because you have yet to base your opinion on any actual facts but only your assumptions and innuendos.

Oh Ken...  you have no FACTS to base your support on either.. all we can do is read the words and use some intuition.

We know where you stand... it's OK.. You choose to believe, support and encourage the behaviour whe wrote about... I don't.  

Please point out where Pike deceived anyone from what is written in his T/R.More assumptions and innuendos, no facts.

Ken,  you're a little slow... you keep asking this question and I have answered you more than once. Let me speak slowly...

Pike spoke about turning his phone off to avoid the calls and messages of women while he was working up the next one.  If he wasn't deceiving the women he was with why did he have to turn his phone off?  

Oh, I know.. you'll say he wanted no interruptions so he could focus all of his time and attention on this loose woman who needed casual sex so much.



I haven't bothered responding to the rest of your rubbish.  Why bother...  you've shown your true colours.

[Kvinna]

I'm curious though... how does your gf and her Antidate friends view Pikes trip?

They are trying to read his long-long erotic revelation

[Kuna]

No Ken... not you...  those words jumped into my mind when I read Bruno's respose but it's just as easily applied to KenC and Sohkay.

In hindsight it should have been obvious with KenC... bt, ya know... sometimes we're all deceived!

[Admin]

No Ken... not you...  those words jumped into my mind when I read Bruno's respose but it's just as easily applied to KenC and Sohkay.

In hindsight it should have been obvious with KenC... bt, ya know... sometimes we're all deceived!

Kuna,

Please see my PM.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

No Ken... not you...  those words jumped into my mind when I read Bruno's respose but it's just as easily applied to KenC and Sohkay.

In hindsight it should have been obvious with KenC... bt, ya know... sometimes we're all deceived!

I wasn't worried about it. Just trying to lighten the mood here a bit. Too much focus on this thread and the associated TR. Seems to me that if someone wanted attention they surely got their money's worth here.

There are plenty of folks that get my dander up as well. This guy just isn't one of them.

Perspective, intuition, how we "take" the written word are as individual as it gets. Any of us who allow our emotions to take over in a discussion of any sort will end up not being able to make the point they are attempting and will often end up just looking foolish.

It's all about the message and not about the messenger. NOTE TO SELF: Remember This!

Ken

[Kuna]

I think most of our conflicts here are a result of the inability to agree on exactly what constitutes a "sex tourist."  I am also of the opinion that the above definition is way too broad in scope and would include most of us here (including the ladies).  Might I suggest the following altered definition:

Sex tourism is tourism, primarily for the purpose of having sex, involving the deception of the women with false promises of marriage.

I think this is a much more accurate definition of what we may all think a sex tourist is.  It has been posted here that I am in favor of sex tourism and based on this refined definition, I can honestly say I am not.
KenC

You've left yourself a few outs now haven't you Ken???

Next you'll be saying his primary purpose was business... and you'll maintain there was no deception - therefore he's not a sex tourist.

Whether or not there was an expectation of marriage is a question no one can answer other than the women he bedded.

Would you care to encourage Pike to give the contact details for just 25% of the his conquests so we can have one of our lady members contact them and see how accurate I am?




The definition you've given is a good one.. how you think Pike doesn't fit it is beyond me.

[Admin]

You've left yourself a few outs now haven't you Ken???

Next you'll be saying his primary purpose was business... and you'll maintain there was no deception - therefore he's not a sex tourist.

Whether or not there was an expectation of marriage is a question no one can answer other than the women he bedded.

Would you care to encourage Pike to give the contact details for just 25% of the his conquests so we can have one of our lady members contact them and see how accurate I am?




The definition you've given is a good one.. how you think Pike doesn't fit it is beyond me.

Kuna,

Have you read Lily's assessment of Pike's TR? It is in the Ask a Lady section of the board.

Pretty interesting.

- Dan

[Mir]

It looks that among the women who are interested in this forum only one has accepted that Pike is a sextourist and an allround badie
Interesting

[Kvinna]

It looks that among the women who are interested in this forum only one has accepted that Pike is a sextourist

by voting 5 women

[Kuna]

I wasn't worried about it. Just trying to lighten the mood here a bit. Too much focus on this thread and the associated TR. Seems to me that if someone wanted attention they surely got their money's worth here.

There are plenty of folks that get my dander up as well. This guy just isn't one of them.

Perspective, intuition, how we "take" the written word are as individual as it gets. Any of us who allow our emotions to take over in a discussion of any sort will end up not being able to make the point they are attempting and will often end up just looking foolish.

It's all about the message and not about the messenger. NOTE TO SELF: Remember This!

Ken

Ken,

I hear what you're saying but to me it's not so much about Pike or KenC... It's about the principles that RWD stands for.

The crux of the argument is this... Should TR's be posted without comment?

[Admin]

Ken,

I hear what you're saying but to me it's not so much about Pike or KenC... It's about the principles that RWD stands for.

The crux of the argument is this... Should TR's be posted without comment?

OK - now THIS we can deal with.

RWD and Principles. I cannot commit to providing the written summary in the next 30 minutes - but certainly within the next 30 days - and probably a lot sooner. Much, or all, of it is already commemorated in past posts - but it will be better for it to be more succinct and in a central location which is easily retrieved.

TR's sans response. I think I announced it as a "trial" - and this experience has illustrated one of the frailties of the experiment. I will take it up with the management team - and probably some others of the members - and we will address this - rest assured.

OK - so no more insults and invective - right?

- Dan

[Kuna]

Kuna,

Have you read Lily's assessment of Pike's TR? It is in the Ask a Lady section of the board.

Pretty interesting.

- Dan

Dan, I didn't bother reading much of that thread because I noticed the poll was for women only but when KenC started bullying people around again I couldn't be bothered.

If what you're saying is that the men and women of this RWD supoprt Pike-type trip reports without comments... then I'll leave.  I wouldn't want to associate with you (the people of RWD) in any way.

It's not something my value set can support and I know for sure My Girl woud feel the same way.  Maybe she's not loose and easy like the members assert many RW are but if it doesn't suit us we just won't participate.

Kuna

[Mir]

I did not look at the vote but read comments by Lilly, vwrw and JC.
It is possible that some ladies consider all Western men who go to FSU or read this forum as sex tourists and their vote will not have any value.

[Jack]

Jack, the only thing KenC did was use examples to show that Kuna didn't use facts. 

Scott I will be the first to admit I do not know much about the details as to Pike's trip report.  After I read a couple of post's I felt this was not a post or a trip report that I could learn or benefit from, thus I elected not to read +90% of the posts. As such I may have some incorrect understandings as to what all was posted.


One mis-understanding I could have is that of a sex tourist. To me a sex tourist is a male (usually) whose sole purpose of his trip is to bed as many women on his trip as possible. That's it. Plain and simple. I don't care if he bed's them with all truths, with all lie's, with buying them $ anything they want, this is a sex tourist in it's simplest form no matter how anyone wants to try and paint it.


With Pike, I understand he was there working.  Is this right?  The man was their working?  The man knew probably months in advance he was going to be in this region, or this city working.  Pike we assume is not married by his trip report? The man is going to be working in a foreign place.  How many single men without "a significant other" working in a foreign place is not going to be thinking about female companionship?   The only men I know who would not be would be as the Russians and Ukraine's call "Blue Boys".  In other words I think most normal single males when traveling to a foreign destination during today's time of the internet are going to be using the internet for writing potential ladies to meet while he is in this town working.   This may come as a surprise to a few of those posting in this thread, and I hope your sitting down as I say this,...."It happens a LOT!.


In my personal beliefs and feelings about what is a sex tourist I am afraid that Pike did not meet my measuring stick as a sex tourist.  A sexaholic, sure,...... maybe!  Someone who likes the opposite sex?  Sure!    Someone who likes to have sex while working in a foreign city?  Sure.   Pike's trip report reveals all that.  But a sex tourist?  Not to me in the sense of the word "sex tourist" as I believe it to be.


Scott what got me to comment on this subject was reading your post's to KenC about being disappointed in his response to Kuna.  That's all I was intending to comment on.


What I read was the most recent exchange (at that time) between Kuna and KenC and was based mostly on "deception".  

Kuna,.....based on Pike's own comments, that he decieved the women he bedded.
KenC,.....Please point out where Pike deceived anyone from what is written in his T/R.


Kuna,.....I assert that he has been found to be dishonest and manipulative and therefore I deduce that he decieved the women.
KenC,..... based my posts on what was written not continued fantasies of what he might have done as you are here. Assumptions and innuendos again.


Kuna,.....Pike is a loser because he deceived and manipulated women so he could get the sex he isn't capable of getting at home.
KenC,.....How do you know what Pike can or cannot get at home?  You have given exactly zero evidence to support your claims that he deceived anyone yet.


Kuna,.....What I think is inappropriate is a man (ANY MAN) going there when his primary motivation is to deceive women to get sex. If a man goes there (even for a WMVM trip) and has sex with several women it's possible he can tell them the truth.  I don't think a guy relying on photos of his house and talking about women will be telling the truth.
KenC,.....You have yet to show any proof of deception.  Why is showing photos of his house a deception?  If that was his house, isn't it the truth?  You have no evidence that Pike was anything less than truthful with these women.

So Scott my post to you was just expressing my own personal view as to what you saw as a disappointment I saw as a well worded, well thought out reply, to an individual who was making a lot of claims many might consider as fact due to the way they were presented, and in which case none of the mentioned statements were based on any facts.

[KenC]

Oh Ken...  you have no FACTS to base your support on either.. all we can do is read the words and use some intuition.

We know where you stand... it's OK.. You choose to believe, support and encourage the behaviour whe wrote about... I don't.  


Ken,  you're a little slow... you keep asking this question and I have answered you more than once. Let me speak slowly...

Pike spoke about turning his phone off to avoid the calls and messages of women while he was working up the next one.  If he wasn't deceiving the women he was with why did he have to turn his phone off?  

Oh, I know.. you'll say he wanted no interruptions so he could focus all of his time and attention on this loose woman who needed casual sex so much.



I haven't bothered responding to the rest of your rubbish.  Why bother...  you've shown your true colours.

Kuna,
Please stop with all the childish insults, OK?  If you cannot respond in a mature and gentlemanly fashion, then don't respond at all.

For some reason, your rage has gotten the best of your ability to be logical.  I have based my opinions on exactly what Pike wrote and you have based your opinion on many things that were never written, only assumed by you.  That is not logical.  In my first post on this subject I clarified that my opinion was based on the face value of the report and nothing more.  

The one and only example you have managed to offer up in support of your claim that Pike was deceiving the women he met was that he turned off his phone.  How is that a deception?  How is that any different from EVERY man that has gone the the fsu to meet multiple women?  (Including you!)  I don't see how shutting off his phone is a deception in any way.  Hell, a case can be made that it was the gentlemanly thing to do as to give his full attention to the woman he was with at the time.  Again, every man that goes to meet multiple women in the fsu is guilty of doing some juggling.

Now you can choose to discuss this in a mature and manly way or you can go back to your name calling and sensationalism because you have no real answers.  Your choice.
KenC

[WmGO]

Idiots!

Simple... moronic idiots.

Name calling and personal attacks do not win arguments. Arguments are "won" by applying the facts to basic rules of logical reasoning (which exclude personal ad hominems, name calling, and yes assumptions, innuendos, straw men, etc. ). Only reasoned discussion based on facts do. You have a  bad habit Kuna of resorting to very obnoxious personal attacks and innuendos (subtle slights)when people disagree with you. KenC doesn't deserve it (or anyone else for that matter).

Please stick with facts and opinions (which have long since been made clear).

Thank you.